Discussions of Possibly Problematic Mooches #29 (The Vent/Rant thread)

Borrowing (or outright stealing) from skittles's thread opener:

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Welcome!! (and Warning!!)

This thread is for the discussion of what may be problems &/or challenges with mooches.
**If you have a question about a mooch and you would like an opinion on it, please post your questions here.
**Or, if you just want to vent your frustration regarding mooches, book conditions, packaging or the postal system, you may also do so.

To the BM Newbie & other visitors: These posts are NOT indicative of the normal BookMooch exchange. These problems arise from differences in standards, languages, abilities & ethics. We sometimes even vent about ourselves & the mistakes we have made... and we do make mistakes!

The exchanges mentioned here are only about 1% to 2% of ALL BookMooch exchanges!!
Most mooches go very smoothly & without problems of any kind.

**If you are a Newbie Moocher, please visit the Newbie Thread in this group.
**Newbies & Visitors, please also visit the "I Just Had A Great Experience On BookMooch!!" thread for a better indication of how great things happen on BookMooch.

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Lastly, if you are someone who never has problems with anything happening in your life & thinks that no one else should have any problems either, or that people shouldn't complain or solicit solutions for the challenges they encounter, please do not read this thread or complain about what you read here.

This thread is not for perfect people, because you don't need this thread and you will be fine without it.

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Everybody be sure to play nice with one another, and happy mooching!

I'm generally more of the had-a-great-experience-on-Bookmooch sort, but I have a small vent. I just had two international moocher completely ignore my clearly posted statement that I can't afford to send single-book mooches internationally. I post that I'm willing to Angel any second book from my country to make up a multiple-mooch shipment. But within about 24 hours, two moochers have just blown that off. Polite upbeat e-mail with same info as in my profile leads to "Oh, I don't want a second book." Come on. There's not ONE other book from ANY US member who want? (They do have enough points.) You would think people who want to trade books know who to read. Sheez!

#2: They know WHO to read, but not HOW to read...

just reply with your statement that you can only send packages of two or more books internationally or you will refuse their mooch. You can also state that your request is within the rules of BM. Give them a cutoff date for requesting a second book or their mooch will be rejected.

I requested a book from an international moocher that had a similar request, but he also had the option to mooch bookmarks or mooch cards and he would mooch two of the three points back. (he ended up with two points because you would mooch to sets of marks/cards). I didn't want the cards, so I told him that I would mooch them but that he wasn't to send them. He didn't like it, but he agreed. (that was a long time ago when international mooches cost two points... several centuries ago... or so it seems.)

I have a note on my profile that within Canada I require two mooches. I've had it ignored a few times, and usually send a polite email explaining the shipping costs and if they do not mooch a second one, I will reject their mooch. I figure its a step above what I really want to do sometimes, and just reject outright with "postage costs too high- read my status idiot!"

I've noticed too lately, that I am getting more mooches, then immediate cancellations. The reason? "Too many points". It makes me sad, because without them mooching from me, I have no points to mooch from others. Yet another downside of the 3 point rule. I have books sitting in my account that are wishlisted, but nobody wants to spend the points on them.

4: I feel that last part completely. It's sad and frustrating, but yeah. I have a small buildup of points (not anywhere near as big as some of you!), and a few days ago I found like 8 books from one user that I really wanted... but they were international. That's what, 24 points? No way, won't do that. I will almost *always* spend 3 points for a wishlisted book, though. Just not multiple at once.

I'm starting to despair about ever getting this one book. Requested mid-August, had to send a reminder and an email before it was finally marked sent beginning of October, and THEN beginning of November I got an email that it had been returned, and he would send it first-class to make up for it... Which I thought was awesome. But I still haven't recieved it.

I usually have pretty good luck with books, but this week I came across one book that smelled really strongly of smoke, another with writing inside, and a third so damaged by mold that I had to throw it away immediately- something I have never before done with a bookmooch book. So frustrating!

>6 orangewords: Ugh, I've gotten those moldy books before - the ones that have gained sentience. Skeevy!

daaaaang. Who on earth would *send* such a moldy book that it can't even be kept around?? Wow.

>8 Heather19: I've gotten 3 or 4 super-skeevy ones over the course of my BM/PBS time. One in particular was so bad that when the envelope arrived in the mail my eyes started watering even before I finished opening it. My nose was running by the time I was even able to check the title. I couldn't even handle it. (Worse, it was an international mooch, too!)

>8 Heather19:

People that either do not realize how bad the book is (had seen people reading such books...) or simply that want to get rid of the book and do not want to throw it away. In most cases these are the same people that would say "the book was free, so what do you want more" :)

I talked to the owner and she is sending me another copy! Apparently it's soot from a stove and not mold... I will take her word for it, but either way it was very badly stained and caused an allergic reaction. And now it's in the trash.... :-/

at least the owner is making it right and sending you another copy! I once had a book lost in the mail so the owner ordered another copy and mailed it to me.

I know! I am very impressed by that.

Just made a note to myself to leave a negative feedback on an in-progress mooch. Yeah, I've heard the whole "email first" idea, but where there has already been communication back and forth and it's still bad enough for negative feedback? *sighs*

The one I mentioned in msg 5. The book that the user *said* he was re-sending first-class at the beginning of November? TODAY I get an email saying that he sent it *yesterday* (ie, after I sent yet another email yesterday), book-rate. An entire month after he said he would re-send.

I know, I know, at this time of year it's good to focus on the positive, but I just received an open package, with evidence that the choice of seal was ordinary scotch tape, the stuff I use on gift wrap. One book was still there, but the other was gone. Arghhhhh!

Well not BM related, but still same topic. I just received a used book I bought from Amazon, which had been advertised with good condition. I flip through the pages and passaged marked in bright yellow jump out at me. Interesting definition of good !

Well, it is a book about finding a job once you completed a university degree and I bought it as a paper version with the intention of passing it on once I am done with it so it is not a huge problem, but still annoying.

I just got a pretty beat up ex-library copy of a book with no condition notes.... Very annoying indeed!

I'm done with people not reading status messages. Canada, I love you, but if you cannot read that I require two mooches, the request will be rejected. I'm tired of chasing after people who don't have the respect in the first place.

*Grumble*
I was clearly saying that I will be mailing books around the holidays and the holidays are not here yet and just now someone canceled the 5 that just need to get walked to the office in the morning.

Oh well -- whatever. Sounds like I need to unpack them and pack the rest I have to send.

Not a rant, really, just.... a self-rant.

I have to step away from BM for awhile and have said so in my status message. I will respond to requests and send during my next shipping-date, end of January, but between mental issues and my computer problems I just can't be as invested as I used to be. And I really hate that. But... yeah.

A book for my sister showed up on my wishlist last night. Brand new member, listed about 15 books. Some were heavily WL'd, so I wondered if they actually posted their wishlist as inventory, but they didn't post that many, so I didn't ask.

I mooched 3 books. A few hours later they closed their account! Boo :(

Uggggh. I had several mooch pages open before I lost internet, and they all asked for my password at once when my browser started up again just now, so naturally it popped up a billion log-ins at once and because I mistyped my password on the last screen (curse my butterfingers), it locked my account for too many password attempt. Theoretically you can type in a security code and get the account unlocked (or wait an hour, except I want to get those mooches done!) but it didn't work. Why have that as an option if it's not going to work?

{/crankypants}
{naptime}

>22 chelonianmobile:: I'm pretty sure that in that situation you only need to log in once. Then get rid of the other log-in pop ups and just refresh all the other pages after you've logged in. :-)

>23 crimson-tide: You know, that's what I usually do. Possibly I need avoid situations where I'll be so happy to have internet again that I go online while highly sleep-deprived. *sheepish* Although, it would have been nice if that unlock thing did work!

I had the password lock out thing only work when i have a single Bookmooch page open; if I have multiple I can not use it :)

What is the password lock out thing, and where do you find the security code?

hi crimson

I am trying to remember when I get it...I think it is suppose to come up if you mistype your password several times when logging into the system but for some reason I know I have mistyped it way more than 3 times and it still lets me enter the password again.

Basically the idea is you will be locked out for 1 hour for failed attempts at typing in your password. The 1 hour lockout would prevent a bot from attempting to hack your account; or so the theory goes.

If you are locked out; then you can type in a security word which is very similar to the words you type when mooching a book. If you type it correctly then you can get back in without the hour wait.

The catch is there seems to be problems withe the security code feature and BM when you have multiple windows open.

Just a whine. I "asked first" for some wishlist and/or interesting looking books from three different members in the last couple of days. All three said "no". Really don't get why U.S. members would be set to "ask first" and would say no to a Canadian moocher. *sigh*

>28 carod:

Need help with those?

>29 AnnieMod: AnnieMod,
if you would kindly mooch this one:

http://bookmooch.com/m/detail/1449054013

and

http://bookmooch.com/m/detail/1592400671

that would be lovely. The others have already been mooched by others or are in Mexico.

No condition notes on the first.
"Hardcover with dust jacket. Like new." on the second.

Got them.

30> I attemped to get some of the books from the new user in Mexico as well. I was also denied but she accepted some other US requests. I was very sad. :(

>31 AnnieMod: Yeah! thanks Annie.

>32 Belladonna1975: Yes, I was disappointed. It would be nice if there was a place in the "ask first" no form where you have to state your reasons why you won't send. And there was a record on the site of such requests.

>27 ZoeyEve:: Thanks ZoeyEve. :-)

Just got my first negative feedback... for used envelopes! So frustrating, but I'm being zen... haha.

#35: remember that you can also leave feedback on the transaction.

We can leave feedback on feedback and also change feedback and change positive to negative and from negative to positive.

a sneaky piece of info: you can change the numeric feedback to positive after a cancellation!! Leave your 'regular' feedback for a cancellation, then go back after you've finished to change it to positive!! Why?? Sometimes the book owner will let you know nicely about a book or a situation ... or you have to cancel for no fault of the book owner and they've been really really nice about it!! Change it to positive!!

36 I usually do change to a positive if I cancel due to something other than inactive users! It's such a nice trick. :)

I never knew that you could. That happened to me when I first joined BM and I wondered how they had done that.

I've occasionally left negative feedback on a transaction I've cancelled. When the owner responds positively to an ask first request or a reminder and then never bothers to respond to the mooch I think negative feedback may be warranted.

I mooched a book from my wishlist last week only to have that person's account be immediately closed. Surprisingly the book turned up in my mail this weekend. What gives?

That dash where the comment should be usually indicates that the person had their account closed by the admin.

requested a book today & then checked her history.

There was so much red there, that you would have thought it the scene of a multiple homicide!

Not surprisingly, a few hours later, the mooch was rejected... she couldn't find the book!!! LOL!!

There are probably a few other things that she couldn't find, either!!

Her keys!! I mean her keys!! She can't find her keys!!

Did you let TPTB know?

Yes, I did. and apparently some others did, too.

We'll see what happens.

I kind of have a conundrum. I mooched a book from someone who appears to be just starting out. But the email sent to them from bookmooch bounced back. I tired emailing them directly but the same thing happened. The message says that the email in invalid. So it probably just means that the user typed in their email incorrectly by accident. I'm not sure if I should cancel the mooch. It has now been two weeks since the user has been on the bookmooch site. What do you think?

I'd wait.

How far off is the email from the user name?? Sometimes you can tell if there's a mistake in the email addy, or trying something similar.... it is up to you, but I've tried successfully to contact another BMer that way.

Good Luck!!

the email looks right based on her name and the user name. I guess I'll just wait a while and see what happens.

I could use some advice for this one case I am dealing with.

I mooched a book back in May 2011, which was accepted. When I hadn't heard anything after about a month I sent a reminder. I got a reply that the book had actually been sent. After about 2 weeks I got back in touch because the books still hadn't arrived. I asked if it had been sent surface mail and was told that it hadn't been.

Life happened, and I didn't get back until about a month later. I sent another follow up saying that the book still hadn't arrived, and that I could not mark it lost, since it still showed as accepted, not sent. I got an apology in reply and the sender told me s/he could not mark it sent at the moment.

Life happened again and I didn't get back to it until I guess at least another month later. I sent another follow up, again saying I can't mark it lost. I got a reply that the sender was in hospital but would try to have someone mark it sent. I never heard anything again since then.

Now I am torn. I have these 3 point hanging in Limbo. I have tried to get the situation resolved, but nothing happened. If I cancel I will get my points back, but if the book really was sent I will be taking earned points away front his user. On the other hand I have no proof if it really was sent, and I am getting frustrated. I don't know if sending another message will accomplish anything. So should I just cancel the mooch?

I actually bought the book new ages ago, and read it, which makes this even more frustrating.

I'd cancel, and refund the points manually to sender when/if the book arrives.

That sounds fair.

I agree with 49. If it wasn't coming from the Philippines I would be sure it hadn't been sent, but now there still is a small chance. But if the book does arrive you can still give the points back.

And if she had marked it sent, you would have marked it lost ages ago anyway, so the point loss is really his/her fault for not marking it sent.

I am still holding my breath on the one from the Philippines, this one is actually from the U.S., so it is either lost, or was never sent. And what you are saying makes sense to me, and is what I was thinking, I tried to get it marked lost several times, so that both of us could keep the points, but at this point I am beginning to loose patience.

I love bookmooch, but lately i don't have much luck with it. 1 of the book was send within the netherlands and the reciever stated that the envelope arrived closed with tape, but the book inside was gone. (i didn't use tape so someone has stolen it and closed the rip again.) So i have to mark it as lost cause they want their points back. And the last book before this has never arrived, so have to mark this lost to. I'm getting a little sick from sending it abroad and spending money just to mark it lost later. Also there are not much interesting dutch books on there but mooching international isn't very attractive anymore since the new points system. sad......

35: that's ridiculous. I ONLY use used envelopes.

#54: agreed.

The only time I am using "new" packaging is when I'm using the flat-rate priority boxes!

35> orangewords you might like to refer the moocher to this advice about reusing packaging material http://wiki.bookmooch.com/index.php?title=Shipping.

I think that orangewords in 35 meant that she got negative feedback for a shipment of used envelopes not for using used envelopes to send books. I was trying to find the blog post where John discussed added packages of used envelopes to the list of things we were allowed to list in our inventories as a way to encourage recycling but I guess it was too long ago. But the link in >56 gimboid13: is good too since it shows that Bookmooch encourages the use of used envelopes.

57> I think you're right carod. I hadn't realised there was a demand for used envelopes. I hope the receiver decides to take up orangewords' offer to negotiate, which seems very reasonable.

@ 57 & 58

Sadly, no luck! But it's not the end of the world, I suppose. My condition notes for used envelopes now explicitly state that the user will have to add new labels themselves.

#59 From the blog archives: April 29, 2008:
Reuse Your Packaging Blog Post

A strange and somewhat alarming (and frustrating) site experience! Has anyone else ever gotten the password attempt error while they were logged in? I logged in, wishlisted a book, checked something else, went to check my save-for-later, and then got the multiple password attempt message out of seemingly nowhere. The "unlock your account now!" thing failed several times in a row. I finally gave up and decided to wait it out. When I went back to BookMooch an hour and a half later it immediately brought me to my member homepage without asking for my login information or anything, thus proving that I had definitely been logged in properly before the whole mess.

That was a bit frustrating.

I have heard of this happening to others, although thankfully I have not encountered this problem. The bouncing email issue is causing all kinds of consternation in the newbie forum, however.

An old complaint I know but I changed my e-mail address yesterday and now, no BM. On the plus side it will help some of you moochers with your New Years resolutions!

Edited in an attempt to make sense

No big thing, but a book arrived today all marked up for BookCrossing. Nothing in the condition notes at all, of course. I've given a 0 in the hopes that he'll at least start mentioning it.

Not to open that old can of worms, but I do hate paying with a point for a book that has a giant sticker telling me I can't keep it. I'd have an entirely different attitude if the book were free!

>64 RidgewayGirl: You can give a permanent home to a BC book, it being "altered" in such a way with no warning in condition notes or user status is another problem though.

Yeah, and the wording of the giant, permanent sticker inside is that the book is a traveling book and tells you to READ & RELEASE in big, big letters.

Oh dear. Which book?

So, I went to the blog.. It seems I was correct in assuming there was no analysis made public, no discussion, and no admitting to any issues with international mooching since the change... sigh.

Oh, there never will be. We all know what we see in regards to international mooching. Posting the results of the changes would force Buckman to admit it was a bad idea, and I got the impression from the original announcements that he's not someone to admit that. I don't think any analysis will ever be carried out.

Oh, and the book? The Headhunter's Daughter. I'll read and put it up for mooching (with condition notes!).

I agree with you, RidgewayGirl. Even though an analysis was promised, I didn't ever remotely think it would eventuate.

This was an angel mooch which the owner accepted promptly. A month went by but I assumed it was just the time of year. I sent a reminder and sure enough the reply was holidays, forgot all about it, very sorry, post it right away. Another month passed and I started to worry. Another reminder and this time the reply was very sorry, can't send, the children have spilt something nasty on it, mooch rejected, account closed. Seriously, I suppose there's some entertainment in watching people try to wriggle out of their promises but why make commitments you're not prepared to keep?

71> Because when they make them, they do intend to keep them. Some people regularly intend to do a great many things that are unrealistic in any number of ways.

Not really a mooching issue per se, but I just finished canceling the last round of inactive Canadians and we are now down to 569 Canadians showing in the country list. That's less than half of the members we had at our high point. *sigh*

I just had the weirdest thing happen. I mooched 2 books from someone who had been a member for almost a year and had a good feedback number. She accepted my mooch and then immediately marked it sent - ok. Then 2 days later she marked them lost and when I checked her account and it said "closed". Then today both books show up and her account now says "on vacation". I can't mark them received because they're not on my pending. Is there something I can/should do? I've never had anything like this happen before.

74> I would just smooch her the points since you got the books.

#74-75: if they are marked lost, then she got the points, but you got your points back. (that's the normal way of things)

TPTB might have closed the account & she petitioned to get it back & is on vacation until she mails stuff out or something similar.

I'd look at her point history to know if she got to keep the points for your mooch.

74-76: If it was marked sent and then 2 days later marked as lost, then it had to have been done by TPTB since we can't mark our own stuff as lost until a forever has passed. I didn't think about her getting to keep the points. I guess it depends on if they wiped her points when they closed her account and then gave them back to her when it re-opened.

Skittles is right, the only way you would know for sure if she got to keep the points is to look through her point history. If she did get to keep the points than I wouldn't smooch her because she has already been "paid" for that transaction. If that is the case, Yay! for getting books and getting to keep your points!! :)

You could always smooch the points to a charity if you feel bad about getting to keep them :)

Thanks all - I will go check her point history. But I'm pretty sure the message I got when they were marked lost said she and I both got to keep the points.

I just had to reject an angel request someone sent me. They knew it was a long shot, but I still feel bad. Textbooks are big and heavy :(.

No need to feel badly about that, any angling you can do is appreciated, and no one expects you to go broke for it. :)

I have a problem mooch but the sender has great feedback and she's new so I don't want to discourage her. The book I received was the wrong edition (a British trade paperback as opposed to the American mass market paperback, it's the trade I object to, not the British edition. I have small hands and other issues which makes reading trades harder, plus I have maxed out my trade pb storage). Also, the book was wrapped in two layers of very thin packing paper (it's nearly the same as crepe paper, that's how thin it is) with only a few pieces of Scotch tape on it, plus the tape was directly on the back of the book. The wrapper was torn all down one side and I'm really surprised the book made it to me without falling out in transit.

I apologize for anything I've said that may have pissed people off in the past and I'd really appreciate advice on this one, but it seems that most LT moochers aren't speaking to me anymore (I'm assuming they have me on ignore, which means this plea for forgiveness probably won't be read in the first place, but I tried anyway). I didn't understand a situation (and still really don't) and I've been rather frustrated with BookMooch for a while now, so maybe I didn't express myself properly.

Have you considered sending the sender a private email explaining the issue? If you aren't seeking a point return and want to just let her know to be more careful listing books and better at shipping them in future transactions, email is probably the gentlest way to go.

If you want to be a bit more public about the transaction but don't want to discourage her from the site, I'd consider leaving positive feedback but state in the comments something about how luckily the book arrived without damage.

Hopefully you can remooch your TPB for a MM.

I'm sorry you feel like you're being ignored. I don't think it's deliberate; I think just everyone's busy.

Quasior, I didn't know that I was supposed to be ignoring you! Seriously, it is a busy time of year and I'm only here sporadically, and I expect everyone else is just busy too. Don't worry, we're not huddled in the girl's room gossiping about you.

I agree with MB's solution. A quiet email on the side will come across as helpful rather than confrontational.

Sorry BM's been frustrating. It goes in cycles. Maybe you're due for a long string of positive mooches!

>82 Quaisior: Because it's a newbie I would still suggest leaving positive feedback, but send a private email with your concerns and a helpful tip or two, such as listing by ISBN and using bubble mailers or wrapping in plastic. Sometimes people just don't realize that there can be problems with packaging until they receive problem packaging themselves. Feedback can always be changed based on the response.

Edited to add: (By the time I remembered to hit the send message button others had already responded with the same advice, so just consider this a 'what they said!')

@ Quasior

It is not you; the boards have been extra quiet lately; guess most are busying working :) Seems to go in waves on LT and BM when it comes to posts and mooches :)

^Ditto. :)

I really hate giving negative feedback, but I also really hate not marking books in in a timely fashion and I marked in all the other ones that I picked up from my parents.

Just, I had to chuck the book because there were mold spots. :( Probably from the undisclosed water damage. :( Which wouldn't have been too much of an issue for me really except MOLD SPOTS. :( And also the packaging was AWFUL. :(

*is a ball of confrontation-hating anxiety* I'd email first but I've been more awful than usual at email lately. But I don't really know how to get myself to leave this feedback. Argh! I'd been hoping to vet it for my friend's stepdaughter and pass it on.

Negative feedback won't hurt you. They may well take steps to ameliorate your experience (point refund?) and you can change your feedback accordingly.

You're also leaving information for people who will mooch after you. It would be very useful for someone with severe allergies to know about the mold.

88: In this situation, negative feedback is necessary. I understand the want to avoid conflict and be nice, but others deserve to know the condition of the books they are requesting. I would give a polite, detailed comment, something along the lines of "book was wrapped poorly, and arrived with mould spots and water damage".

If the other person wants to work with you they will. I usually just write my points off in this type of case.

Edit: If this is the book I think it is, the moocher already has one feedback comment regarding poor condition, but was given a +1 anyways. A negative would at least give us users who just glance at total sent/feedback a reason to glance deeper. Just my thoughts.

Mold spots are definitely worthy of negative feedback. Gross!

Thanks everyone and sorry if it seemed like I was over-reacting; I thought I was being shunned. It's been going on for a while, not just recently, but I was also away for a few months due to financial reasons, so maybe some people thought I had totally given up on BM, plus I wasn't posting anything here because it was just too depressing. It was bad enough missing out on a ton of great books that will probably never be posted again now that I'm back to mooching.

Anyway, I did as you all suggested and sent an email. I never got a response, but thanks for the advice. I also attempted to mooch the book again, but this time I got the American trade pb. Some books are just cursed for me! Next time I attempt to mooch it, I'm going to email the sender and ask if it's the mass market paperback first because otherwise I fear I'll end up with a mountain of trade pbs.

Not really a problems as of yet, more a holding my breath on a newbie. I mooched a book on Feb 4th, which was the only book in the inventory of a new moocher. It got accepted, I guess the will send tomorrow is due to this person not realizing that it can be changed. I haven't heard anything since and I am hoping that this will actually get sent.

>92 Quaisior:: Aw! Which book has been giving you trouble? The Case Histories one? I haven't seen a copy of that myself, but I'll keep an eye out for an mmpb for you.

I do a lot of searching for specific editions too, and I've often had very positive responses to my asking for confirmation of edition before shipment.

>94 MyriadBooks:, Yep, that's the one. Thanks for the offer to keep an eye out for it. Whenever I get to the used bookstore again, I might look there for it too.

That's good to know that people are nice about you asking about the edition. I probably should have done that with the one I got today.

Heh. I actually had this problem on Amazon - the seller listed, by ISBN and cover, the 1993 edition of Masques by Patricia Briggs which I really want to read. But when I bought it, they sent me the new, 2010 edition. I _have_ that one, I want to compare the older one! She rewrote it for the reissue, and I love reading published variations. Bah. I asked a couple other Amazon vendors which edition they had, but got silence in reply. Phooey on them, not gonna buy it then. It hasn't come up on Bookmooch, as far as I've seen.

96> I ended up buying it for a friend about 5 years ago before it was reprinted. It cost me $20 then. That is alot for a paperback but she really wanted it. I read it (and loved it) but I haven't read the reprint yet. Good luck in your hunt for that one. :)

>96 jjmcgaffey: i have seen it on amazon and half for about $6 with the ISBN from the 1993 edition. If you really want it; you could email the seller and confirm.

98> Yeah, I've emailed three sellers so far asking and gotten no responses. Sheesh. I'll just keep an eye out at local bookstores and yard sales.

What is usually done about "return to sender"? I've never had this problem before. Sent a package to Canada, it came back today with "return to sender" stamped on it.

I have notified the moocher in question, but what to do? It's not lost, or received, I can't really afford to send it again....

>100 Heather19: I believe when this matter came up in the forum, the admin that answered said it should be marked "received." Personally I would want to mark it lost and then repost if for them or arrange for an angel mooch. Unfortunately, as it is a Canadian moocher, you have a long time to wait to mark it lost. When this happened to me, I found a few more books for the moocher and put them all together in a bigger box with the returned books and she mooched the new books and I mailed the whole lot to her. I lost a bit of money on the deal, but it wasn't bad.

Return to sender usually means a wrong address- the moocher should give you the correct address but if the address on the package is correct-ask the Canadian moocher to complain to the Canadian post office. I have had great success in presenting complaints- in fact I have had the moiney that I spent on postage returned to me. so that I could resend. Maybe if the postal service made a mistake then you and the moocher can work out some agreement for payment of sending- Unfortunately this could be a long process-

When I get a return to sender, I mark them lost, but I also notify abuse if the receiver is MIA.

Things have still been really slow over on my 700+ wishlist, so I checked PBS and grabbed 3 for 3, in quick succession. They are on their way (we all know how autocratic and efficient PBS is).

I don't want to pay more on PBS, but it would be really interesting if I could wishlist all of those 700 BM titles.

So, "remove, remove, remove" from my BM wishlist...

This is a rant at myself. When I posted all of my mom's Danielle Steel books, I forgot to flip through them and one that got mooched today has swear words crossed out. I emailed the moocher, so I hope she gets back to me about it. I feel terrible about it.

>105 Quaisior: At least you noticed it before you sent it out and then actually let the moocher know. Many people either just not check at all, or not bother to tell the moocher even if they did notice. Situations like this are a good reminder that you are in fact a responsible moocher and should be proud of yourself for that. :)

>106 chelonianmobile:, thank you! I got an email back and she's fine with it, so I'll be mailing it along with a freebie this week. I've gotten my moochable inventory down to three medium sized boxes and my office is finally looking more like an office and less like a storage space now. :-D

OK not bookmooch, but PBS...

I am in the middle of moving, which means random books are popping up everywhere. Found one that is WL'd by four people on PBS. It's not technically postable (major issues with the spine/binding), but I figured I would post it and PM the person to see if they still wanted it.

I posted it, and it was almost immediately requested. Auto-Request perhaps. I send the PM, asked them to let me know whether or not they wanted it and explained the condition in detail. I offered two books off my shelf for free to make up for the crappy book. I told them if they didn't want the book, I would be happy to cancel the transaction from my end.

The response I got back?

"Thanks for letting me know!"

*headdesk*

So I wrote them a nice reply asking them to let me know if they actually wanted the book or not...

My "return to sender" dilemma seems to have solved itself. The account had been closed and the book auto-marked as recieved.

Just a little me-rant, I HATE not having money to send out in a timely manner. I really, really hate it. End-of-March isn't that far away, but I hate having to do it this way.

@ heather

glad to see you on the boards; i know this is off topic but how are you feeling?

a little better, thanks for asking.

I just got one of those, "we have an empty package with your name on it" notices from USPS. Nooooooooo!

Oh, and insult to injury: the standardized note basically scolds people about how they need to do a better job with packaging when I WAS THE RECEIVER, NOT THE SENDER (and thus had nothing to do with the packaging), and also they tell you to mail the search request form back in the provided pre-addressed envelope . . . which they did not provide. *headdesk*

Good news, I just received 3 books well packaged and in good condition. Bad news, one of the books was not the book I mooched (similar title). However I emailed the sender and she is going to mail me the original title so I will be able to change the neutral feedback to a positive. *whew*

I have a dilema...
I asked first of a new member who had 2 books I want for a friend if I could mooch it. I know that ask firsts don't always go through so I sent an email. She messaged me back to tell me that she didn't have the books any more but left them up to be mooched. Then I've noticed that someone else has mooched one of them on top of that she has about 11 to send out and almost as many coming in but she hasn't sent any out as of yet.

I'm just wondering if I should be notifying abuse. Help! I'm so annoyed because I really wanted thoes books for my friend.
~ Missy

If she knowingly has books posted that she cannot send, yes, abuse should be notified.

Sigh, just cancelled a book I go no response on. I also listed two books which were on a total of 3 wish lists. All of them on vacation, clearly because of inactivity.

The only bright thing about this is that I had to do all this because I got offered 4(!) books on my wish list to mooch YAY! (Which will totally screw up my progress on reducing my to read list, damn)

EDIT:

Okay, so now this brought me into an awkward situation and I could use some advice on how to handle it. I had sent a reminder for this one book about two days ago. I then cancelled today because I needed the points and didn't think the book was ever going to be sent. Now I got an email saying it was sent 3 days ago (I am guessing more like 2, after my reminder). I now have exactly 1 point, the book was for 3.

I am torn between thinking it is the sender fault for not marring it sent, and thinking I really should remooch the book. I have some books I can try to list to get the points to rematch.

How should I react to this?

>116 Conachair: I think I'd wait till it arrives and then smooch the points to the sender.

Yes, let the book owner politely know that as soon as the book arrives, you'll smooch them the point and thank them for sending the book.

I agree with not sending them any points until the book arrives!

This isn't a complaint about a specific mooch just a general (and long winded) whine. I posted a bunch of wishlisted books last night, which is my pattern this year: every few weeks I post a bunch of wishlisted books, reserve a few for good mooching buddies and general help keep the Bookmooch economy going. One at least was mooched from a relative newbie and I added someone with similar interests to my "friends". That's all great. However, I ended up using the Amazon search feature to search for the ISBN's to add the books since the "ADD" search through Bookmooch was impossibly slow. Whine two: In the last few weeks I've contacted abuse a few times over matters that have arisen in the forums, including the member whose account is on vacation yet he/she continues to post random comments in John's blog which have little to do with the topic and include links to random websites. I have not received a single response to any of my emails to the admins. I also haven't seen any sign of an admin in the forums in months. Whine three: someone posted a question in the BM Health forum asking if there were any statistics available more recent than July 2011. Canadian members are down to under 550 from a high of over 1100 a couple of years ago. I went through my friends list today and deleted all the members who had been inactive for over a year unless I had a good idea why. I am feeling like TPTB have abandoned Bookmooch for more interesting projects.

I am not Bookmooch-bashing, like some other posters in this group have been infamously known to do;) I'm just feeling discouraged.

Knowing already BookMooch search is slow, I always use the search on BookMooch via Amazon when adding, and usually try amazon.co.uk or amazon.ca if it doesn't turn up on amazon.com before going to last resort ISBN search and manual adding. When you click the "Add" button, it brings up the Amazon search box with the mouse cursor in that box by default; you are searching Amazon in order to add. If you're only searching BookMooch to add, that's an extra step to move the cursor away.

#117 -119

Thanks for the advice. I think what I will do is send a message saying "Sorry, but this is why it is important to mark books sent" and offer to refund points as soon as the book arrives.

120

I also emailed abuse several times about the random postings and heard nothing back. The charts are not updated but the data is there under the CSV format as I think you know but it does seem like others have lost interest in the site.

Abuse doesn't usually email back anyway, even when they do something about the issue.

>123 ZoeyEve:, 124 I am actually feeling more positive today. I got a reply back to one of my emails to the admins and got a "yes" to an ask first request. Two of the people who mooched books from me in this last batch are librarians and I always like sending books to librarians. It is definitely quieter on Bookmooch but there are a few of us still actively using the site. I don't know what it will take to reinvigorate Bookmooch again.

125: I have definitely noticed a slowdown, but as long as I have books to post, I will be active. It's sad but also a fact of life that good things will come to an end. I may come across as pessimistic, but I just do not see a major change in the site until I start to see more management involvement. With John et al. vanishing, it's almost as if they have left the site to function on it's own.

But hey, despite everything (or in spite of it) I will be here until the end.

The slowdowns that I've noticed these past couple years I've largely been attributing to my increasingly specific tastes. When I first found this site in 2007, I was like: Mooch! Mooch it all! Everything! Now, I double-check everything for condition and edition and then consider if I would be happier reading a library copy rather than fitting one more book in my house.

Contrarily, however, I was just on a rather large mooch upswing. There seems to be a rush of books posted for a couple months after every Christmas. Holiday self-regifting, perhaps? It makes me happy every year, even when the higher influx of newbies includes a proportional percentage of newbies who decide not to mail out any requests.

>120 carod: Those stats appear in 7 to 8 monthly intervals, so there should be another update about now.

I just had a book I mailed returned to me because the address label is mangled to the point where the moocher's address is completely torn off. I'm running low on funds right now and really can't afford to pay twice to mail something, especially when it was a post office error that led to the book being undeliverable. I'm not sure what to do in this case (although if I sent it on PBS, I know exactly what the protocol is because it's on their FAQ). Edit: I wanted to make it clear that the book itself and the bubble mailer are both undamaged, it's just the label that was torn enough that the moocher's address is completely gone, although my return address is still there. Do I just resend it and pay again, do I tell the moocher about the situation and then have her wait and mark it lost then repost the book...?

I've had books that could not be delivered throught the fault of the PO. I take them in, explain, and so far in every case, they have re-sent it at no charge. Have you tried this?

No, I just got it in the mail the other day and haven't gotten to the post office yet this week. I'll ask about it though. I emailed the moocher and she smooched me a point to cover the second mailing cost if the postal service charges me again. If they don't, I'll just smooch her back. Thanks.

I either write an address in permanent marker or cover a label with clear packaging tape. So far no problems......

I did both, I think the package got caught in a sorting machine. There was another label underneath and everything was ripped all they way through to the bubble mailer's surface, so let's see, that's four layers of paper and tape it ripped through, I think.

I recently got back a box that I had sent to Books for Keeeps with the label and clear packing tape missing.

>134 dudes22: Oh no! That stinks.

Yeah - it wasn't a huge box but still a pain. I was surprised because I always try to tape the label down securely.

I second the suggestion to ask the post office to pay for the resending- my experience is that a complaint is listened to and answered- Canada Post has been great.

120 - Carod, I've noticed the site becoming much quieter too. I've got exactly one book on which I am waiting, which is as slow as it's ever been on the site as there is almost always things I want. Did the admins say anything about this to you? Do we all need a book mooch holiday?

I've also wondered about reporting abuse - there is a book which has been marked as sent, but the owner clearly marked all her pending books as sent without actually sending them; she has 11 marked as lost. She hasn't been on the site for three months, so seems to have self-vacated, but I drew the profile to the attention of the admins without reply. And I don't feel like sacrificing the points to leave negative feedback. Oh well.

>I38 I did hear back from the admins about the spam messager in the forums. Apparently they are aware of him and plan to do something about him at some point but need to gather more intel or something. I know they don't always reply to abuse messages but do act on the reports.

I seem to remember someone else saying they were able to go in after the fact and add feedback to lost book transactions? Or was a dreaming that.

>139 carod: I seem to remember someone else saying they were able to go in after the fact and add feedback to lost book transactions? Or was a dreaming that.

Yes, that was probably me. I posted recently about being able to leave feedback for a recent lost transaction, and actually for lost transactions as far back as November. So... the bug fixed since then, I gather, or a three-month window for marking feedback has been granted.

I got a package of 4 books yesterday. They're all in good condition, which is great (kids books often are not).

It arrived 68 cents postage due. I usually don't sweat this too much, but this one seemed odd. They wrote media mail on the package, so it wasn't a getting charged for first class issue. The package was 11.7 oz, so it wasn't like they just barely went over the weight. 68 cents is way more than the last price increase, so it wasn't like they forgot what the current rate was and put the old rate.

Also, there is no return address, just an indecipherable word that appears to start with bookmooch, a very indecipherable city/state, and an indecipherable zip code.

They've been on the site since 2008, it's not like their new to this.

I reported it to abuse.

You know what the worst part is... reading through old feedback, and realizing this same person sent me books with over $1 postage due two years ago :( Same MO too, no return address.

I got a rare return email from the abuse team! They agreed that this member was cutting corners, said they had talked with them before and would do so again.

They do have a decent number of good transactions, but they have a long and consistent history of rejecting books and sending books postage due.

Today, I got a book that was in horrible condition that was described as only being yellowed. It was a replacement copy for a book I already had in horrible condition and it's really not in any better condition than the one it was meant to replace. So now I have two copies to discard. :(

>143 Quaisior: That's a shame Quaisor. For what it's worth I hope you'll leave appropriate feedback and advise Abuse. To avoid misunderstandings in this kind of situation and make it clear what the requirements are it may be useful to cite the instructions about condition notes in the MoochWiki at http://wiki.bookmooch.com/index.php?title=Frequently_Asked_Questions and http://wiki.bookmooch.com/index.php?title=Condition_Notes.

>143 Quaisior: If the situation were reversed where you had a pristine keeper book and just wanted to mooch a second one so you could take it to the beach or out in the rain or whatever, you know that the duplicate mooch would arrive just as pristine as the original. It's just one of those things. I had a similar experience where I went three mooches before I just cut my losses with the one that was marginally better than the previous two.

A few months ago I changed my status to ask for a second mooch from international moochers. Of the requests that I've gotten, each and every one of them has just gone ahead and mooched just one book and I've felt like scrooge asking them to pick a second book. Should I go back to just labeling all the hardcovers in my inventory as North America only? Does the two mooch requirement work well for anyone?

146: I've had more success since I've added that any single mooches will be rejected. But before that, nope.

146: my experience for a book trading site --which means people who actually read. People don't read status notes or half the time book descriptions. I would not feel bad for rejecting the book; you could take the extra step and email them saying you require a 2nd mooch and give them XX time to respond or you will cancel the mooch.

The other way I have seen it is people but the text in each book condition notes so it is right there in the inventory list :)

144: I did leave appropriate feedback but I didn't contact abuse. I wasn't sure it warranted contacting abuse, especially since this doesn't seem to be a chronic problem with this sender.

I guess this is my week to be annoyed. I have one moocher who I've reserved 3 books for a week ago and she still hasn't requested them, so I have a box of books sitting here in the way which I can't mail yet. I also just mailed 2 books to another moocher and now she's requested another one instead of just mooching all 3 at once (and she nagged me to send the first 2, which I was holding off on because I just knew she's request more since it took her several days to request the second book). And I have someone who I've offered a deal to in the future but I think we've both gotten really confused about it. Edit: Oh, and I have a book I mooched and the request email bounced.

Well, in my case where the person mooched just one book, despite my saying clearly that I needed two mooches for international shipments, the person acknowledged that they'd seen the requirement, but wanted my book anyway. No, they didn't want a second book or for me to angel a book for them. They were pretty clear I was the unreasonable one. I'd mail a paperback, but this is a hardcover. So I feel like a jerk now. I wish it were possible to set myself to US and Canada only.

RidgewayGirl,

I would just change international to ask me first. Then put in a note that you will say yes to multiple mooches. It might be less frustrating for you. I still feel a bit bad about it when I turn down an international mooch, but some of them are really expensive to send.

Another week, another crappy copy of that book in post 143 I'm trying to replace with a better copy. So I've tried requesting it for the third time. I'm hoping the third time is the charm on both that book and the book I ranted about in post 92, which I have wishlisted as mass market, but keep getting trade editions.

>152 Quaisior: I would also double check to be sure that the trade edition you received isn't showing the ISBN on the listing because it might be the listing data that's wrong. That happened to me once on PBS when I listed a book by ISBN, a paperback large print edition, and the title that popped up was "Correct Book Title (Large Print) (Paper)" with the correct cover, so I never noticed that in the details it said 'hardcover'. The recipient complained and I ended up refunding a point. So even with the ISBN it can be wrong.

153, The first copy I received was the British trade paperback edition and when I look it up by ISBN it says it's a paperback, but the size is a trade paperback. The second copy also says paperback and has the dimensions of a trade pb. The one I actually have wishlisted says mass market and when I look it up on Amazon, it also says mass market. Since I've never gotten a copy of the mass market, I can't compare the ISBN to the one I wishlisted or prove that a mass market pb exists, but none of the ISBNs of the books I have received match the ISBN of the copy on my wishlist.

>153 macsbrains: The same thing happened to me on BM when I was young and foolish. I "assumed" the ISBN would pull up the right book. Apparently I sent a trade paperback when the ISBN was for a hardcover. When the disgruntled receiver told me, I asked if he/she would check the ISBN because I had entered it that way. Never heard anything. Now I'm more careful.

153 - Ok, so then they're definitely not listing by ISBN. I just thought it was a good idea to double check to remove that variable.

I prefer mass markets too because you can fit more on a shelf.

^ I got bit with that too. I pulled an ISBN of a specific edition off Amazon, mooched a book listed under than ISBN, and volleyed several frustrating emails with the giver when the book arrived in an edition that didn't match but with an ISBN that did.

And that was when I began populating my inventory with condition notes that recorded the book's binding.

152: What books are they? Perhaps one of us can help you out. :)

With Bookmooch, you pretty much have to assume that whatever book you are mooching does not match the ISBN of what you requested. If that's something that's important, you should try to discuss it in advance, unless you have points and time to throw away.

A book on my wishlist shows that it's available. But I have already done everything I could to get it from this giver, to no avail.

Over a year ago, the giver was still "ask first". I asked. I got no answer. I sent an e-mail. No answer. I mooched with an apology. She said it was too heavy to send internationally, but was fine with reserving for an Angel. My BookMooch Angel mooched it. We waited for three months without a reaction, then decided to cancel.

My mooch isn't the only one like that - her history is a sea of red.

And now this giver is back. She has added new books to her inventory too, so she hasn't just accidentally come back from holiday. She might really want to make a comeback.

So, what do I do?

159, Yes, which is one of the many reasons why I highly prefer Paperback Swap to BookMooch; on PBS, if I get the wrong edition, I get my credit back. I do happen to have points to throw away but it's still really annoying and I feel like I'm paying for someone else's mistake. I find it a lot easier to post a book by ISBN so I wonder why other people go through the hassle of posting any other way. BTW, I did email the latest person I requested Case Histories from and the edition she has is the mass market pb, so yay!

158, The other book I'm having trouble finding even a readable copy of is The Feast of All Saints by Anne Rice. I have another copy on its way to me now, so I'll see what condition that one is in.

PBS makes it really clear to users that posting by ISBN is the only way that is acceptable. I wish Bookmooch would head down that direction, and show new users what an ISBN is, how to post by it, and stress that you should use condition notes if anything, especially ISBN, does not match.

One thing I've found that can cause problems with posting by ISBN is that BM doesn't always recognize the 13 digit ISBN. (almost never actually) And dropping off the "978" at the beginning doesn't work. So unless you're willing to mess around with the last # until it pulls up a book I think some may find it easier to look by author and pick one that looks the same.

ETA: I also think there are still people out there who don't understand the difference between trade paperbacks and mass market. As soon as they see "paperback", they think that's the one.

163> It's easy enough to convert between ISBN-13 and ISBN-10 using this converter: http://www.isbn.org/converterpub.asp.

ooh - thanks! But still - could be part of the issue with books being listed incorrectly.

163, Ugh, I know, the 13 digit ISBN does cause a lot of problems. I use the converter or sometimes post via the Moochbar and Amazon. Since most of my books are older, I don't run into the ISBN-13 as much, so I totally forgot about it being such a hassle. And yes, I run into the can't distinguish between different forms of paperback problem too.

So I left neutral feedback for the latest copy of Feast of All Saints that I got that was falling apart. The sender responded and said it wasn't falling apart when they mailed it. Okay, so I suppose it put tape on itself en route then? I mean, if it didn't have tape on it, I could almost maybe think that yeah, it was an older copy and got damaged in transit, but the fact that the pages that are almost falling out are taped together kind of gives away that it had damage before it was sent.

166> If it really had fallen apart on the way the owner probably should have packaged it more carefully!

#164 Thanks for posting that.

Not a rant - just a curiosity. I have a book on my save-for-later "the Enchanted April" by Elizabeth von Amim. There's a related edition link which says it's a paperback, but when I look at the book, the description field says audio MP3 edition. Anyone run into this before?

>169 dudes22: Sometimes the description it pulls from Amazon is for a different binding or even format altogether than that of the isbn listed, best check with the owner.

ok - thanks

If the book only has the 13 digit ISBN listed, I usually just type it into the search bar, and when nothing comes up, it automatically puts that ISBN into the Amazon search which will pull it up. It's an extra click, which is annoying, but I am always surprised at how much people struggle with this? Maybe it's not doing that for you?

172, that's usually what I do too, but when I added a giant stack of my late Mom's books via add books in bulk, the ISBN13s were a really huge pain.

For some reason (and there's really none) I tend to not pay attention to that link. It seems so obvious now - duh!

Wow... I had some books sent to me by a Canadian member that have not arrived yet. I didn't think much of it since I know sometimes international mooches can take their time. They were all marked lost today. I checked their profile... their account was closed. They mooched 43 books and apparently gave zero... wow...

>175 rainbowgirl28: That's just nasty. I hope you realize that most of us Canadians are lovely, honest, people;)

175> I mooched two from the same person and got the same message that they were lost yesterday. I had no idea that they were doing all of that mooching without actually sending any books. That makes me sad. :(

Wow here's a first, abuse contacted me about this member (I had not contacted them first). They said to let them know if any books ever arrive or if the member has any correspondence with me.

So if anyone hears anything from her, please be sure to let the abuse team know.

Good to hear they're taking this one seriously.

I just noticed that the moocher that I sent a cookbook to last week has 1) cancelled about 6 requests,2) not sent out any books yet-a number of new requests have not been answered and I am the first person to send this moocher a book! The book will not reach this moocher for two months ( different continent) I am not sure whether I should contact abuse yet.

I had a book requested with the comment that it was only wanted if it was a large print edition. My book is a regular print edition and I had it listed correctly by ISBN. I emailed the requester explaining that it was not large print and requested that they cancel the transaction. I never heard anything back, so I was forced to reject the request. I found it a bit irritating to have to do that when I had listed it properly and there was nothing in the listing to indicate that this edition was large print.

I probably would have just let it sit there, taking up their point, ignoring it, until they wanted their point back and cancelled. I don't mind stuff sitting in my pending.

Yes, I'm thinking I should have just done that. Next time.

180. Their error, they should cancel. However, I also have sympathy for people who don't want a book to get mooch out from under them while they're waiting for the answer to a question.

Ugh. Just received the wrong book. I'd mooched (and was so excited about) The Key to The Name of the Rose and have received instead an old mass market copy of The Name of the Rose, smelling heavily of cigarettes. The covers aren't similar and the book owner has been on BM since 2008 and should have known better.

I've emailed asking if there's been a mix up and this book sent to me accidentally. They've been on BM for far too long to make such an elementary mistake.

The book owner listed the wrong book. Her solution is for me to send the book back to her so I can get my point back. I feel like the loser in this situation. I think I'll just leave negative feedback and be done with it. She was not amenable to refunding my point.

Oh goody - you pay postage to return the book, so you've paid double for that point? Yeah, definitely negative feedback. Is this possibly a new person using an old account? That's such a newbie thing to do - both the listing the wrong book (and apparently not noticing!), and putting the onus on you to "fix" it before you get your point back.

No, they pointed out that they were an experienced moocher and that this was the first time they'd made a mistake. Their feedback isn't great, so I don't think they'll care that much about negative feedback. I'm giving her through the weekend to respond before I mark it as received.

I mooched three books December 21. Accepted Dec 22. Marked sent Feb 24. I marked it lost April 16, with a note that I didn't think the sender had actually sent the book.

I was surprised to receive the books yesterday, with an electronic postmark of May 15. *sigh*

Had a parcel of 2 books return from Australia unclaimed :(

Mailed the moocher and waiting for news.

On another note, the 2-way trip, including whatever time the package was held for its recipient (15 days ?) took only 1 month and 10 days, not too shabby.

188: I've never understood why people would send books *after* you mark them lost. What does it matter if you've already marked them lost? Why be good and send after all of that?

I always assumed the reason was a mixture of guilt and carelessness. Like, 'Hey, I packaged the requested book promptly then stuck it in a heap in my garage and rediscovered it three months later. Oops. Better get that out in the mail. I mean, it's already wrapped.'

>191 MyriadBooks: I think most people in that situation at least send an email first...

>193 MyriadBooks: -- I'm afraid that hasn't been my experience, but I agree that would be very nice.

I love offering books 2 for 1, but I really wish people would read my status, which asks that moochers mooch both books and I'll smooch back a point. I want my ratio to reflect the books I'm sending.

Also, I usually update my mail date weekly and I did this week, but I just got a reminder to mail a book (or no, actually 2 since it was one of the people who didn't read the part about requesting both books), even though I said in my status I'll be mailing tomorrow. The weather has been awful here with thunderstorms every day and since I walk to the post office, I'm not going to risk my neck to mail someone their books. I had originally planned to mail my books last Friday, but a doctor's appointment and a trip to the blood lab from hell afterward took up my whole afternoon.

Oh for Pete's sake... I requested 17 books from a member March 7th. They were marked sent March 24th. Of course they never showed up.

I contacted the sender quite a bit later to let her know I was moving and that if she had not sent them, I really needed them sent soon. Got no response.

By early May I cancelled all of my incoming books and changed my address to prepare for the upcoming move that was nearly a month away, but I can't cancel a book that has already been marked sent.

I go to my new PO on Friday... I owe $6.63 in postage. The user sent the books (in two packages) May 31st and there is no free forwarding with media mail. I probably should have just refused the package and returned to sender, but I sucked it up and paid the postage on the off chance that it was something else.

How would you proceed? It's 17 books and her feedback is currently 87/90, so while my inclination is to leave -1 feedback for each book, I don't know that my intent is to completely destroy her account.

I have a ton of points already, so sending me more points would not resolve the problem.

Would it be completely out of line to ask if she would be willing to PayPal me the postage I paid? Should I get abuse involved before doing anything?

>195 rainbowgirl28: I would be inclined to leave "0" feedback score (since they did eventually arrive) with a comment about them being postmarked over a month after they were marked sent. And I would be open to changing the feedback if the sender contacted me with a reasonable explanation. Given how much postage is up here in Canada, I can't comment one way or another about the $6.63 on top of 17 points for 17 books.

196 - I guess I'm just pissed because she marked them "sent" over two months before sending so I could not cancel. I went to great lengths to avoid this sort of thing from happening. I changed my address on bookmooch a month before I moved, and I cancelled all of my pending transactions to the old address even earlier than that.

I would ask for 3 points back to cover the cost of getting the books. It's still annoying and probably the person you mooched from will be unhappy, but they were less than responsible. I think some moochers are fairly casual in how they regard BM. You know, the "it's a free book" people.

Is bookmooch down today? Or is it just me?

This is really annoying. I joined bookmooch yesterday because I hit a lull with PBS. Sure enough, two of my books were on wishlists (yay!). So I wake up this morning and try to log in - it doesn't work. I try again. Nope. Check my sign up email, and I know I'm using the right username/password. So I click on reset password and then go check my email again - and nothing. I try again, my account is locked, and still nothing in my email. A few hours later I send an email to tech support, but still no response.

I'm completely bufuddled. Shouldn't a password reset be automatic? Why couldn't I login in the first place? How long will this take to resolve?

When I accepted the two book requests I said I would mail in a few days, and I see that I have their mailing and email addresses in my email notices, so I can mail the books and message them by email, but I would like to double check everything in my account before I go to the Post Office. And one of the books I requested was a 2for1, I think, so I need to message them, but the email notice for a mooch doesn't give their email, so I'm stuck there.

Should I just sit tight and hope this gets worked out? For how long? And is it to weird to email the people I'm mailing books to and tell them that I sent them?

I've been able to get on BM all day, so I don't think it's down. It's possible the system has flagged your account for an unknown reason, which happens occasionally and more often than not with new members.

If you access your Bio page, whether logged in or not, you'll find an 'Abuse' button off to the right. 'Abuse' has a scary name, but really equals 'contact tech support'. Click on it and send a message to Support explaining your situation. The Support team is made up of volunteers, and delays in response is highly normal.

It's in your best interest to mail off promptly the books that have been requested from you; once they reach recipients they help to show you as an active member and aid the system in un-flagging your account.

There isn't any way I know of for you to directly contact the giver of the 2 for 1 deal. There is an 'Email' option on the Bio page, but you can only use it if logged in. I'd mention this in your letter to the Support team, but in the short range of things I'd suggest that another member contact your giver on your behalf. The giver might wish to delay sending your books(s) until the system lifts your flags. PM me with the giver/book details, and your own BM and email details, and I'll be happy to contact on your behalf. (I suspect anyone here on LT would be happy to do the same.)

Apologies if the tone of the comment is abrupt; my day is hectic and I'm visiting LT for clear-headspace change of pace.

MyriadBooks - Many thanks, not abrupt at all, but very helpful.

I did manage to find my Bio page and --- ugh. It says I am "on vacation" and that I have cancelled and rejected all my requests.

So yeah, I guess I have been flagged. I really would have appreciated an email about that. Or something before being dumped off the site. As it is, it just seems to be very, extremely, and totally rude.

I did email the people who requested books from me, explaining what happened, and asking for their patience. At the moment I'm not feeling very keen to mail the books via a site that simply changed my "accept" into a "reject" and didn't tell me about it.

I'll send another email to tech support after I cool a little. I'm pretty peeved.

I received a cancellation from a member last week saying they were cancelling their request since Bookmooch said the book was no longer in my inventory. I didn't receive the actual request until later in the day. I had the book and the only thing I can figure is that since I had previously sent out another copy of the exact same book to someone the system must have decided it was that copy. I emailed the requester apologizing for the confusion and told her that it was a glitch in the system and that I had the book, so let me know if the other person she requested from doesn't come through. I then added to my condition notes saying that I do have the book and ignore any system message to the contrary. Has anyone else ever had this problem? Any ideas for anything else I should do?

Well, it wouldn't be in your inventory once someone had mooched it, would it? Are they new? If they had to cancel, wouldn't follow that it was showing as requested by that moocher?

Just had my first "person joins and then closes their account within 24 hours without notifying any of the people who have mooched from them" in a while. Boo hiss, although at least it hasn't happened to me in the past six months or so. I think. Time has gotten kind of away from me this year.

Not to belabor my rant, but--

It's possible the new person did not close their account themselves. I just tried to open an account a few days ago and within a few hours it was forced on vacation and all the book requests I had accepted were rejected. I emailed the affected people through the request notices, but not everyone may know they can do that (and tech support told me *not* to do that, but, oops, they emailed me too late).

Still waiting for tech support to decide if I'm trustworthy or not...

>205 SWagnerWassen: IIRC there's actually a way to tell if admin did it or the person did it themselves and I cannot for the life of me remember what that is. The account was totally closed rather than being suspended, though, which means it was unlikely admin did it themselves unless the email address had been used before on an account that was flagged by the abuse team. As far as I can tell, the usual chain of events is: join -> post books -> see that there aren't any wanted books immediately available and/or realize that one has to pay for postage -> decide not to bother with the site -> close the account. My favorite thing in this instance is that I recognize all the other people who mooched from the person.

I hope they figure out what's going on with your account! They don't usually suspend a new account if there are only a handful of mooches. It's kind of weird.

Sigh..... Looks like a multi-mooch from the USA may be lost, why did it have to be the parcel that was lost rather than a single book? Ahhh well such is life, unfortunately one of the books in the parcel I really wanted, so may have to bite the bullet and buy it :(

A new member posted a whack of books, including a quite a few wishlisted books. I mooched a few and then watched with increasing alarm as his books pending climbed. It is now at over 100. Last night I sent him an email suggesting he set up a mailing schedule and post it in his status message. He has since emptied his inventory. I don't think he has accepted any mooches yet and didn't reply to my email. I am less than sanguine.

I've said it several times. I think newbies should be limited to adding 10 (or 15 maximum) books in the first x days they are members. That way they don't get overwhelmed.

And there's always the "add it to inventory instead of wishlist" thing - that is waaaay too easy. And feels awful when you figure it out!

A book I have long been wanting popped up on my feed as available from an international member. I submitted an ask-first request which was promptly and quite courteously declined. Shortly thereafter, the book is showing as having been successfully mooched by another member from my country.

It is wrong of me to want to stalk this transaction and hope to learn that the successful moocher had blatantly ignored waiting to learn the giver's decision and just mooched straight away? Because otherwise if the transaction completes successfully I can only assume the giver somehow figured shipping to one state was too costly but shipping to another was totes okay, and that just makes me sad.

I had a situation once where the person emailed me the request instead of using the system to request. And then someone else tried to mooch using the mooch button. So I had to email them and explain that the other person had asked first even though they hadn't done it the right way. Maybe that's what happened?

Maybe? I guess anything's possible. The email I had gotten from the giver, when they declined, stated that they'd be happy to send out the the book if only it were lighter, but that as is they wanted to restrict delivering it to only within their continent (Asia).

That's kind of odd then.

Maybe the moocher offered them extra points.....

Could be! C'est la vie. I'm sure the title will pop up again somewhere.

Want to tell the name and see if anyone has one they could let you mooch? I've got some books I haven't posted because I don't need any more points right now.

The Daily Show with Jon Stewart Presents Earth (The Book). I had gotten lucky with finding the earlier America (the Book) and I am American (and So Can You) on BM and used book stores, so I'll just be keeping my eye open. :)

Well that's not one I have. Hope you have some luck finding it.

Thank you for checking!

...And now the book's showing back on my wishlist again. I guess the international member had mooched in advance of getting the okay.

Em, I think my DH has that one. I will see if he is wiling to give it up.

Not a mooch rant but a slow loading, cumbersome rant. I have been trying to clean up my wishlist (a task that I have been putting off for much too long). Why, why why can't we have little boxes we can check and a "remove all" button? It takes forever for the page to reload after I've removed each book. And I have it set to show only 100 books. I am wondering if it would be faster to export my list, edit it as a CSV file and then import it again, except the possibility of disaster scares me.

I've had luck with removing multiple books without refreshing/reloading the page each time by right-clicking the remove textlink and forcing the link to open in a new tab. The removed book will still show on the wishlist page until you refresh it, but the book will be removed.

I'll often go through and remove 20 books at a time this way, closing out the tabs and refreshing the wishlist page whenever my browser looks full.

Book falling apart - can I ask for my point back?

Hi there, can someone help me with this? I am reading a book this afternoon and the pages are dropping like confetti. Now the moocher did say in the description that there were 'a few loose pages' which I wouldn't have minded, but these pages are altogether detached and falling out as I'm turning them. The spine is shredded and the book should have been thrown in the bin, not mooched.

Is there any way I can get my point back?

It's not so much that I want the point itself - but I don't want them to cheat people, because if they are sending one bad book out they are probably sending more and that's just not the spirit of Bookmooch. In all the years I've been a member and having received over 100 books I've never had one even remotely as bad as this. I'm really cross! And I don't think they should get away with it. So I'd really appreciate some advice.

End of rant. Getting down from my soapbox now.
Thanks :-)

I am grumpy.

Bad day at work, which is probably why this has set me off as much as it has.

I checked my junk email folder today, and found a 'sent' notification for a book that I have been waiting for the owner to respond to for almost a month. The message inside? "I will be able to send this book soon." Pardon me? Sent means sent in the mail people! Gah!

And then I also received the wrong book in the mail today. Icing on top of a horrible day. Now to chill out with a glass of wine. *deep calming breath*

>224 MrsKipling: You can't really ask for your point back, but you can leave 0 or -1 feedback stating that the book was in poorer condition than indicated. The sender may contact and offer to send you a point if you would be willing to change the feedback score. I don't think you can define this as abuse since "loose pages" can be pretty subjective.

Mild annoyance at sender who mixed up the packages and shipped me someone else's books and shipped my books to someone else. OK, that happens. I did it once.

But what annoys me is that her idea of making amends is to smooch me points rather than give points back from her own points. She messes up but gets BookMooch to pay the points back and she KEEPS the points she got from me for the mooches. That's not what smooches are for. She should not get to keeps my points for books she didn't, in fact, send to me.

>227 WildMaggie: Err... when you smooch someone, it's from your own points.

It's pretty much the only way to transfer points beside the charity feature, too.

I was excited to find a couple of books on BookMooch, but the owner wouldn't ship to my country. I was able to find someone through the Angel Network to request the books for me. They received them, and I mooched them. Now they haven't signed in to BookMooch in over three months and haven't responded to e-mails. What is the protocol? I really appreciate that they got the books for me, and I would be happy to receive them if they return to the site. It seems rude to cancel a mooch request from an angel and have them stuck with books they wouldn't necessarily even want. At present, I'm just planning on waiting as long as I have a few extra points and canceling the request only if I really need the points and haven't heard back. Is that my best option?

>229 sporcloid: Sounds like a plan to me and one I have used in the past. It's a drag when an angel mooch falls through. It has happened to me a couple of times and is so disappointing.

#229 I've got a similar problem, possibly with the same Angel? She mooched loads of books for me to make a big box (as she has done before) but now she hasn't been on BM for ages. I was just about to send her an e-mail to ask what exactly is going on, as I'm quite sure she has a good reason for the inactivity. Still, I do hope it will be allright. I have had a big box of Angeled books not go through a few years before, and it is pretty frustrating when that happens.

#229/#231 - is that infiniteletters? I was wondering myself - he/she's normally very active, but is now on vacation with -155 points! Hope nothing bad has happened ...

228> No, when you smooch someone Bookmooch pays the points. It's supposed to be a community-building thing to thank someone for going above-and-beyond. Using smooching to repay points you owe because of your mistake is a misuse of smooching. You mess up and then have someone else pay, while you keep the original points. Not right.

You give your own points to other Bookmoochers by the charity function. That's what a Bookmoocher should do to refund points when she/he messes up a mooch.

233 WildMaggie -- No, when you smooch someone Bookmooch pays the points.

No, I'm afraid that's not correct. When you give a smooch, the point is deducted from your bank of points and given to the recipient. When you smooch, you have the option of smooching anonymously, so the smooch recipient might not always be aware of which member gave the smooch, but the point always originates from someone's bank; it's not granted out of the BookMooch ether.

A charity gift differs in that it is never given anonymously and you can choose to give more than one point at a time. Aside from those differences, smooching is charity gifting with a cuter name.

Many members choose to repay 'owned' points by smooching rather than charity gifting because it's easier to give a smooch than a charity gift. To give a smooch, you just have to go the recipient member page and selecting the Smooch button; but to give a charity gift you have to go to your member home, hit the Charity button, scroll to the other options, look up the member, and then you can give them their point(s). I personally don't bother with charity gifting unless I'm gifting three or more points at a time.

ETA: If you have ever smooched a point, you can look in your Points analysis and see the deducted point in your history:



And here's the BookMooch wiki entry on the subject.

(Edited because Myriad already did it better)

I requested a book on May 2 and while the owner mailed a bunch of books requested that day and two weeks later, mine sat there on his pending for two months. I finally reminded him a month ago and he said he mailed my book and two others that day or a day later. Tomorrow it will be a month since he mailed and still no book (and the others he supposedly mailed that day haven't been received yet either). I'm really annoyed because I think he lied about mailing books a month ago, plus people who requested books form him after I did have already gotten their books. He seemed to be reliable but slow before but now, I think he's a flaker.

Sounds like a stack of wrapped books fell behind the car seat or something...I had someone who emailed me to explain that she'd been sick and asked her husband to mail out a bunch of books, and he'd forgotten about it until she asked him for the mailing receipt to tell someone (else) who'd said s/he hadn't gotten a book when it was officially mailed. I wasn't even looking for the books yet, so the apology was kind of wasted on me, but it was nice of her...

234> Well, I see I am not correct. Thanks for the full explanation. I now revise my opinion of the sender from mild annoyance to extremely minor irritation (something on the order of being behind the guy who's not paying attention to the traffic light when it turns green) that I won't get the books I mooched.

In my defense, I'm sure that was not the way is worked when smooching was introduced. What I remember was that smooches, like the partial point for marking books "received" and for listing books and the third point paid to international senders, were taken (as you say) from BookMooch ether.

237 - That was me! Lesson learned. Never trust a non-bookloving husband to do a hardcore bookmoocher's post office duties! :)

>238 WildMaggie: No, smooches always came from the points of the smoocher, even from the beginning. Otherwise it would have been too easy to abuse the system ( I give a bunch of smooches to my friends and they smooch me....).

239> Yeah, I thought you might see it. But it seemed appropriate to the discussion, too. I've done it myself, without another person to blame...though I don't mark anything Sent until I get back from the post office, because I know that's all too likely. And, conversely, there have been times when the books got there - not quite before I marked them Sent, but only a day or two later - after they'd been on their way for a while.

#240 -, yes, carod, that's right - the idea of smooching was as an alternative to giving someone a point via charity (plus, the added fun of it being anonymous if you so wished) and has always cost the smoocher a point from their own stash.

John's original blog posts on introducing smooching are still active, although all the screenshot illustrations have expired:

http://bookmooch.wordpress.com/2007/08/24/secret-admirer-idea/

http://bookmooch.wordpress.com/2007/08/30/give-someone-a-smooch/

http://bookmooch.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/non-anonymous-smooching/

Huh. I wonder if that's an important reference to add to the wiki.

Huh. I wonder if I should learn how to edit the wiki.

Six current mooches in progress, 4 of them angel mooches for other users, from 3 different owners. All of them have logged on in the last few days but none has even bothered to respond despite reminders. What's wrong with a little courtesy?

I have always be very gentle with the reminders ., but I am getting a bit off .. not least since this is a EU to EU mooch. And hitting the abuse bottom does not seem to to be working. What else is there to do?

>245 Pears: Wait and hope. Cancel with a "owner did not respond" and put them on vacation with a 0 or - feedback. Really the only choices. I usually go with the former for as long as I can while simultaneously putting the book back on my wishlist.

Please remember that some people do not sign out of BM, so someone being logged in does not necessarily mean that he/she has checked the pending list. I try to give the benefit of the doubt, especially for someone with a good record, and wait a week before I send an email asking if the person plans to accept the mooch. Sometimes, things happen that may preclude a prompt reply.

I always wait at least a week before sending reminders. I try to be as charitable as possible but when people log in, and out, several times during that period and some have unanswered mooch requests going back months, there's limited room for doubt. How bizarre that Bookmooch is quick to stomp on someone with an excellent track record who could have been a little more careful with a couple of email addresses, yet takes no interest in this type of behaviour?

So true!

Well, my first and last reminder was 23 days ago (20 days after first mooch). When I sent a "gentle" reminder via e-mail recently I got a response = "cancel if you do not want to wait until I am ready to mail, I have "life" issues". This person has at least 10 mooches due going back 3 months and I am almost the last of the lot. I DO understand "life" things happening, but I have always had good communication with both my senders and receivers, and thus I find waiting and delaying when needed no problem. And .. hmm .. I did the "abuse" thing . but I doubt it is working right now.

But you did let the admin know. I have a pending mooch from someone who has "life issues", but she has been good about updating me and she has a great past record. I think that some people think that because the BM system doesn't penalize them for slow sending (and allows them to use points before mailing books), that there's no reason to actually get around to mailing books. If someone has a "sea of red" in their feedback, then I tend not to give them a lot of time before canceling. And I'm more likely to give a -1 for the unsuccessful transaction than for someone with a good record who is overtaken by some crisis.

Communication is everything. I am so much more nicer to someone who is able to communicate delays to me than someone that I had to nag to get a book sent, and ignores my attempts to communicate.

Then again, it's sometimes all in the tone of the email. Someone who is apologetic and forthcoming with information is more likely to get my sympathy than someone who replies with a one line answer, and only after a reminder is necessary. And really, since there is an option to delay a mooch, users should use that if their lives are being disrupted.

But hey, I live in a perfect world. Not everyone is lucky enough to share by bubble! lol

I knew I shouldn't have even attempted to mooch a book from someone because of her sea of red due to rejecting mooches because they already got requested on another site, but I tried anyway. And now she's rejected mine too, so I gave her a -1 feedback, which I hardly ever do and I reported her for abuse. Someone clearly doesn't understand how PBS' FIFO system works and insists upon continuing to post books at both sites, despite having to reject nearly all of her mooches. I wish people who post books on both sites would check first to see if stuff is wishlisted at PBS because unless there's only one person on the wishlist for it there, it WILL get requested (I actually recently had two PBS WLed books time out on the only wisher and I still have one of those books sitting around, which I won't post on BM because as soon as I do, I know it will get requested on PBS).

And yet another rant from me. I mooched a book in June from someone who said they wouldn't be mailing until late August. They didn't go on vacation so they could keep mooching books all summer. Late August came and went and very few books were mailed, but I'm pretty patient, so I just sent a reminder. Then in September, they started rejecting a lot of the mooches from the summer, saying they couldn't find the books. Well, yesterday it was my turn to have my book rejected. Needless to say, I left -1 feedback and contacted abuse because this person kept mooching all summer and never even bothered to see if the books they were getting tons of credits from were even present.

>254 Quaisior: | Quaisior

That sounds like a fair response. You had been more patient than I'd probably be!

A sender rejected my mooch because I didn't send overseas at this time (I've sent more than 80% of my books internationally and am using up points earned doing so). I noticed the moocher rejected others for the same reason. It is unfair to judge and discriminate people by their send setting status. It's not allowed by BookMooch is it? Now I may never be able to read the book (mooching any I can find by Malcolm Saville as they rarely come up so I check frequently, but they're not on the wishlist as there's so many and I don't have time to do so), as it's too expensive secondhand. :(

I think you can go back and leave negative feedback for the rejection. I'd be tempted. You aren't supposed to reject a mooch on that basis. Although, I know people who do, but don't give that as the reason so they can't be called on it.

I'll just leave it as is; what happened is stated in red, and they gave that reason in the rejection email. I'm not likely to be able to remooch. :/

> 256 | bookel

You are nicer than I am. I would have agreed with carod and left negative feedback, particularly as she's done this in two other transactions.

"It is not OK to reject a mooch because the person won't send internationally."

http://wiki.bookmooch.com/index.php/Rejection

It was tempting as it was an unhappy result, but agreed, I was being 'nice'.

Not sure it's really worth making a fuss about. The person was frank. Others do it differently. Since it's always acceptable to refuse a mooch if you have exceeded your current int'l postage budget or the particular destination is too expensive, they can just claim that.

Unless you're willing to go into creepy stalker mode (and the person sends enough books to allow consistent patterns to show), how do you spot the difference with someone who just sends on first come first serve basis when funds allow ?

grumble- I just had a mooch rejected- England to Canada- Actually I have been on Bookmooch less and less this year- no one has the books that I want and when I do and ask first- no one wants to send to Canada. Since I have sent most of my books to places outside of Canada- US, Australia, Italy etc- I am annoyed-

I'd be annoyed, too, torontoc.

>263 torontoc: | torontoc

I might have one of your wishlisted Christopher Moore books. Give me a few days to check.

Very sadly I just weeded out all my unneeded Laurie R. Kings a couple of months ago.

Thank you!

I don't understand why so many in the US don't send to Canada. I think they must not realize what a great bargain it is. It only costs about 1 1/2 times the cost of sending domestically and you get three times the points. I realize that some just don't want to have to go in to the post office, but I think there would be a lot more people sending if they looked up how much the actual postage is.

A few probably have good reasons not to do so, like not being able to physically go to a post office, but I suspect that most are just lazy. It would involve learning about postage rates and taking the book to the PO and filling out a form.

I am always very pleased to get a mooch from Canada.

I also think that if BookMooch had regions we were willing to send to, more people would be willing to send to Canada. Not very many people actually read my status and bio info, so when I had BM set to ask first and said I'd be willing to send to Canada (and Mexico) but nowhere else, I still got tons of asks from all over the world. I'm thinking of changing back to ask first now that the financial situation is improved, but I hate dealing with people who ignore my status.

A short status message is best, otherwise most the time people won't read a long one. 'Selective blindness'.

New thread needed? Usually you only go to 200+ and it's getting slow to open. :)

THIS THREAD IS NOW CLOSED!!
THIS THREAD IS NOW CLOSED!!

please go to the new thread at:
http://www.librarything.com/topic/143740