Tutored read: Italian Mysteries by Francis Lathom
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2lyzard
Hello, all! Welcome to the tutored read of Francis Lathom's Italian Mysteries, a Gothic novel from 1820.
(What is a Gothic novel? Please see the introductory posts in the thread for our tutored read of Clermont by Regina Maria Roche.)
Francis Lathom had a successful literary career over about three decades, writing plays and other sorts of novels as well as his Gothic novels. Meanwhile, his private life has been the subject of some speculation. It has been suggested by some commentators that Lathom was homosexual; and while there is little direct evidence, the fact that he was legally separated from his children, who then took their mother's maiden name, at a time when fathers had total rights in that area, suggests something more than usually untoward. In any event, following this separation Lathom seems to have travelled quite extensively, before settling in an isolated Scottish farmhouse. He continued to write until shortly before his death in 1832.
Italian Mysteries is an unusual book in a couple of different ways. Firstly, Francis Lathom was one of the few male authors to make an impact in the area of the Gothic novel, which was a heavily female dominated genre. However, Lathom wrote more than half a dozen of them. His most popular novel, as well as his most enduringly famous, was The Midnight Bell, which has the distinction of being one of the famous "Horrid Novels" cited by Jane Austen In Northanger Abbey.
The Midnight Bell was published in 1798, when the Gothic novel was at the peak of its popularity; Italian Mysteries was published in 1820, when not only was the Gothic novel in its dying days (or at least, its conventions were beginning to be transferred into new genres of writing, such as the Newgate novel), but - possibly inspired by the publication of Northanger Abbey in 1818 - parodies of the Gothic novel were becoming more common, another sign of the genre's waning popularity. Nevertheless, Italian Mysteries is quite a straightforward Gothic novel despite its late appearance, and by all accounts was a successful one.
In the introduction to the Valancourt Books edition of Italian Mysteries, the editor James Jenkins suggests that there are moments in the novel where Lathom, too, is having fun with the conventions of the genre; and while these moments can be read that way, most of the novel is played straight.
(What is a Gothic novel? Please see the introductory posts in the thread for our tutored read of Clermont by Regina Maria Roche.)
Francis Lathom had a successful literary career over about three decades, writing plays and other sorts of novels as well as his Gothic novels. Meanwhile, his private life has been the subject of some speculation. It has been suggested by some commentators that Lathom was homosexual; and while there is little direct evidence, the fact that he was legally separated from his children, who then took their mother's maiden name, at a time when fathers had total rights in that area, suggests something more than usually untoward. In any event, following this separation Lathom seems to have travelled quite extensively, before settling in an isolated Scottish farmhouse. He continued to write until shortly before his death in 1832.
Italian Mysteries is an unusual book in a couple of different ways. Firstly, Francis Lathom was one of the few male authors to make an impact in the area of the Gothic novel, which was a heavily female dominated genre. However, Lathom wrote more than half a dozen of them. His most popular novel, as well as his most enduringly famous, was The Midnight Bell, which has the distinction of being one of the famous "Horrid Novels" cited by Jane Austen In Northanger Abbey.
The Midnight Bell was published in 1798, when the Gothic novel was at the peak of its popularity; Italian Mysteries was published in 1820, when not only was the Gothic novel in its dying days (or at least, its conventions were beginning to be transferred into new genres of writing, such as the Newgate novel), but - possibly inspired by the publication of Northanger Abbey in 1818 - parodies of the Gothic novel were becoming more common, another sign of the genre's waning popularity. Nevertheless, Italian Mysteries is quite a straightforward Gothic novel despite its late appearance, and by all accounts was a successful one.
In the introduction to the Valancourt Books edition of Italian Mysteries, the editor James Jenkins suggests that there are moments in the novel where Lathom, too, is having fun with the conventions of the genre; and while these moments can be read that way, most of the novel is played straight.
3lyzard
Please note that anyone who wishes to participate or just lurk in the tutored read of Italian Mysteries is very welcome!
If you do intend to join us, please post and let us know you're there.
There are a couple of rules that we need people to observe to make this tutored read successful. The big one is that, while everyone is welcome to ask questions or make comments, please do not comment on anything beyond the point in the novel that our main "tutee", Madeline, indicates she is up to. In addition, please begin all posts by noting in bold which chapter you are referring to. In these ways, we are able to be sure that everyone will be able to avoid spoilers.
Thank you!
If you do intend to join us, please post and let us know you're there.
There are a couple of rules that we need people to observe to make this tutored read successful. The big one is that, while everyone is welcome to ask questions or make comments, please do not comment on anything beyond the point in the novel that our main "tutee", Madeline, indicates she is up to. In addition, please begin all posts by noting in bold which chapter you are referring to. In these ways, we are able to be sure that everyone will be able to avoid spoilers.
Thank you!
4lyzard
I think that's about all, except for the one absolute requirement of any Gothic novel---
The characters of Italian Mysteries:
Signor Urbino di Cavetti - a doctor of Venice
Valeria - his daughter
Paulina - his niece
Terence O'Donnovan - Urbino's Irish manservant, a former actor
Jeronymo - an apothecary
Sancho di Borges - a farmer who rents the land around the Castello della Torvido
Averilla di Borges - his wife, a blind woman
Francisca - their niece
Julio - a mysterious young man, in love with Valeria
The Marchese di Valdetti - a reclusive nobleman
The Castello della Torvido - an estate owned by Urbino
The Palazzo di Valdetti - an estate owned by the Marchese di Valdetti
The characters of Italian Mysteries:
Signor Urbino di Cavetti - a doctor of Venice
Valeria - his daughter
Paulina - his niece
Terence O'Donnovan - Urbino's Irish manservant, a former actor
Jeronymo - an apothecary
Sancho di Borges - a farmer who rents the land around the Castello della Torvido
Averilla di Borges - his wife, a blind woman
Francisca - their niece
Julio - a mysterious young man, in love with Valeria
The Marchese di Valdetti - a reclusive nobleman
The Castello della Torvido - an estate owned by Urbino
The Palazzo di Valdetti - an estate owned by the Marchese di Valdetti
5SqueakyChu
Hello to all who join us for this tutored read..and thank you so much, Liz, for being my honored tutor once again. It is always so much fun to learn about literature I would be avoiding...except for your influence. :)
Here we go! Wheeeeee!!
Introduction:
1. Francis Lathom was one of the few male authors to make an impact in the area of the Gothic novel, which was a heavily female dominated genre
Why do you think this was so? I actually prefer to read books written by men as they seem to be much more cynical than women. They also tend to be less emotional in contemporary writing than women when writing...but I'm not sure that holds true for older gothic novels. I'll see with this one.
2. its conventions were beginning to be transferred into new genres of writing
For example? What is the Newgate novel?
3. parodies of the Gothic novel were becoming more common, another sign of the genre's waning popularity.
Are we ever going to read a parody of the gothic novel together?
Here we go! Wheeeeee!!
Introduction:
1. Francis Lathom was one of the few male authors to make an impact in the area of the Gothic novel, which was a heavily female dominated genre
Why do you think this was so? I actually prefer to read books written by men as they seem to be much more cynical than women. They also tend to be less emotional in contemporary writing than women when writing...but I'm not sure that holds true for older gothic novels. I'll see with this one.
2. its conventions were beginning to be transferred into new genres of writing
For example? What is the Newgate novel?
3. parodies of the Gothic novel were becoming more common, another sign of the genre's waning popularity.
Are we ever going to read a parody of the gothic novel together?
6lyzard
1. By the end of the 18th century novel writing generally was female-dominated, but I think the thing about the Gothic novel is that, almost by definition, it would focus on a heroine rather than a hero. The fact that it grew out of the novel of sensibility and was very much about the emotional experience of the characters probably slanted it that way too.
2. The Newgate novel was (in England) the first crime fiction. These novels focused on criminal society and often had a highwayman or some other career criminal as their protagonist. They were pitched as social commentary and often showed how society and unjust laws "made" criminals, but they attracted criticism for making heroes out of criminals. This sort of novel was popular in England in the 1820s and 1830s. Dickens' Oliver Twist is a sort of transitional work in this area, using the criminal background but then focusing on the "nice" people.
Anyway, novels like this were often heavy on atmosphere like Gothic novels, and full of mysterious individuals with secret identities in the same way---so conventions that originated in stories about crumbling isolated castles in Italy or France got transferred to the slums of London.
3. Other than Northanger Abbey, most of them aren't very good. I think you'd be better off with the real thing. :)
2. The Newgate novel was (in England) the first crime fiction. These novels focused on criminal society and often had a highwayman or some other career criminal as their protagonist. They were pitched as social commentary and often showed how society and unjust laws "made" criminals, but they attracted criticism for making heroes out of criminals. This sort of novel was popular in England in the 1820s and 1830s. Dickens' Oliver Twist is a sort of transitional work in this area, using the criminal background but then focusing on the "nice" people.
Anyway, novels like this were often heavy on atmosphere like Gothic novels, and full of mysterious individuals with secret identities in the same way---so conventions that originated in stories about crumbling isolated castles in Italy or France got transferred to the slums of London.
3. Other than Northanger Abbey, most of them aren't very good. I think you'd be better off with the real thing. :)
7SqueakyChu
Introduction:
2. what is a highwayman?
Ha! At least I've read Oliver Twist!!
3. I think you'd be better off with the real thing
Okay. Will do.
2. what is a highwayman?
Ha! At least I've read Oliver Twist!!
3. I think you'd be better off with the real thing
Okay. Will do.
8lyzard
>7 SqueakyChu:
2. In 18th and early 19th century England, pre-lighting and pre-law enforcement, there were criminals on horseback who held up and robbed people travelling by carriage on the main roads (such as the main roads were then), and who were called highwaymen. Some of them became very famous and were a sort of anti-hero, although most ended up getting caught and executed.
In novels set in that time you will read of people making sure they have weapons with them in their carriages and/or hiring armed guards called "outriders" whose job was to protect them.
Some of the Newgate* novels were based on the exploits of the more famous highwaymen.
(They were called "Newgate novels" after Newgate Prison, which was the main prison in London, and because the inspiration for a lot of these books in the first place was The Newgate Calendar, which started out as a regular list of apprehended criminals and their fates, but morphed into mini-biographies of criminals.)
2. In 18th and early 19th century England, pre-lighting and pre-law enforcement, there were criminals on horseback who held up and robbed people travelling by carriage on the main roads (such as the main roads were then), and who were called highwaymen. Some of them became very famous and were a sort of anti-hero, although most ended up getting caught and executed.
In novels set in that time you will read of people making sure they have weapons with them in their carriages and/or hiring armed guards called "outriders" whose job was to protect them.
Some of the Newgate* novels were based on the exploits of the more famous highwaymen.
(They were called "Newgate novels" after Newgate Prison, which was the main prison in London, and because the inspiration for a lot of these books in the first place was The Newgate Calendar, which started out as a regular list of apprehended criminals and their fates, but morphed into mini-biographies of criminals.)
9SqueakyChu
Address:
"...by a person intimately connected with some of the most prominent characters in the narrative."
1. Does this mean that some of the characters in the coming story were real people?
"...by a person intimately connected with some of the most prominent characters in the narrative."
1. Does this mean that some of the characters in the coming story were real people?
10SqueakyChu
Chapter 1 - Part 1
...in which the Doctor does not return home on time
1. Hast thou the furies seen?
What are the furies? Who is Denham?
2. he was never addicted to either to gallantry or play, those too common provocative in this city to the stiletto of the less-favoured lover or unfortunate gamester
I'm not sure what this means: "gallantry or play" and "stiletto of the less-favoured lover". I assume gamester means a gambler?
3. the tear again started into the eye of Valeria
Here we go! :)
4. the gratitude of a friendless orphan
I've come to learn that not all orphans in gothic novels are true orphans...but let us continue...
5. I am come to consult wid you what is to be done with the best
Why does Terrence say "wid" and not "with?
6. in this town of laurel-juice and stilettoes
What does that mean?
7. I belave
I guess this is some sort of accent which is intended to mean "I believe"?
8. Fast bind, fast find
What does that mean?
9. at the house of the signor in the faver
What is a faver?
10. Use every expedient to discover him
What is expedient?
11. by sarving the best of masters and of men
I assume that word means saving and that O'Donnovan's accent is Irish?
12. Is O'Donnovan singing or reciting poetry?
Ends on page 6 with...
...just introduced to their knowledge.
...in which the Doctor does not return home on time
1. Hast thou the furies seen?
What are the furies? Who is Denham?
2. he was never addicted to either to gallantry or play, those too common provocative in this city to the stiletto of the less-favoured lover or unfortunate gamester
I'm not sure what this means: "gallantry or play" and "stiletto of the less-favoured lover". I assume gamester means a gambler?
3. the tear again started into the eye of Valeria
Here we go! :)
4. the gratitude of a friendless orphan
I've come to learn that not all orphans in gothic novels are true orphans...but let us continue...
5. I am come to consult wid you what is to be done with the best
Why does Terrence say "wid" and not "with?
6. in this town of laurel-juice and stilettoes
What does that mean?
7. I belave
I guess this is some sort of accent which is intended to mean "I believe"?
8. Fast bind, fast find
What does that mean?
9. at the house of the signor in the faver
What is a faver?
10. Use every expedient to discover him
What is expedient?
11. by sarving the best of masters and of men
I assume that word means saving and that O'Donnovan's accent is Irish?
12. Is O'Donnovan singing or reciting poetry?
Ends on page 6 with...
...just introduced to their knowledge.
11lyzard
>9 SqueakyChu:
Address
No. It was a standard practice with Gothic novels to pretend they were true stories, though. Do you remember how The Castle Of Otranto was supposed to be a translation of an old Italian manuscript? That pretty much set the pattern for most Gothic novels to follow.
Address
No. It was a standard practice with Gothic novels to pretend they were true stories, though. Do you remember how The Castle Of Otranto was supposed to be a translation of an old Italian manuscript? That pretty much set the pattern for most Gothic novels to follow.
12SqueakyChu
Yep. I remember that.
13lyzard
>10 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 1, Part 1
1. Also in common with most Gothic novels, Francis Lathom adds an epigraph to the beginning of each chapter, to set the tone for what follows in the chapter. He must have been doing it from memory, though, because he gets some of the attributions wrong - including this first one! It's actually from John Dennis's adaptation of the Greek Tragedy, Iphigenia In Tauris, by Euripedes.
In Greek mythology, the furies were goddesses of vengeance, who were supposed to punish anyone who swore an oath but then broke it. Seeing them meant something awful was going to happen to you.
2. Gallantry means love affairs; play means gambling. It was taken for granted by English writers that everyone in Italy carried a dagger (a stiletto, or poniard), and that any argument was likely to end in murder. Gallantry and play are cited as the two most likely reasons two men would get into an argument. "The stiletto of the less-favoured lover" means that if a woman chose one man in preference to another, the man who missed out might be expected to stab his rival to death.
3. Oh, yes...
4. :)
5. Because he's Irish; Lathom is trying to write him with an accent.
6. Stilettoes we've dealt with in (2.). Laurel-juice was a poison. If you weren't murdered one way, you'd be murdered another!
7. Yes, see (5.)
8. That's a quote from The Merchant Of Venice (almost everything Terrance says is a quote from Shakespeare). Broadly it means to be keep guard over your possessions or they may be stolen. Here Terrance is advising Valeria and Paulina to keep themselves safe by locking up carefully after he's gone out.
9. "Favar" is Irish for fever; the doctor's patient has a fever.
10. Every possible means.
11. Yes, see above.
12. At that point he is quoting Romeo And Juliet.
Chapter 1, Part 1
1. Also in common with most Gothic novels, Francis Lathom adds an epigraph to the beginning of each chapter, to set the tone for what follows in the chapter. He must have been doing it from memory, though, because he gets some of the attributions wrong - including this first one! It's actually from John Dennis's adaptation of the Greek Tragedy, Iphigenia In Tauris, by Euripedes.
In Greek mythology, the furies were goddesses of vengeance, who were supposed to punish anyone who swore an oath but then broke it. Seeing them meant something awful was going to happen to you.
2. Gallantry means love affairs; play means gambling. It was taken for granted by English writers that everyone in Italy carried a dagger (a stiletto, or poniard), and that any argument was likely to end in murder. Gallantry and play are cited as the two most likely reasons two men would get into an argument. "The stiletto of the less-favoured lover" means that if a woman chose one man in preference to another, the man who missed out might be expected to stab his rival to death.
3. Oh, yes...
4. :)
5. Because he's Irish; Lathom is trying to write him with an accent.
6. Stilettoes we've dealt with in (2.). Laurel-juice was a poison. If you weren't murdered one way, you'd be murdered another!
7. Yes, see (5.)
8. That's a quote from The Merchant Of Venice (almost everything Terrance says is a quote from Shakespeare). Broadly it means to be keep guard over your possessions or they may be stolen. Here Terrance is advising Valeria and Paulina to keep themselves safe by locking up carefully after he's gone out.
9. "Favar" is Irish for fever; the doctor's patient has a fever.
10. Every possible means.
11. Yes, see above.
12. At that point he is quoting Romeo And Juliet.
14souloftherose
I'm here and will be following along with interest. I will probably start reading at some point in the next couple of days.
15SqueakyChu
Hi Heather! Glad to have you following along!
16SqueakyChu
Chapter 1 - Part 2
...in which Urbino rescues Terence from drowning
1. in the city of Venice
I was in Venice!
2. sublunary pilgrimage
I know this refers to the doctor's wife short life, but what does this phrase actually mean?
3. had disobliged her parents
What does that term mean?
4. the hand which gave the blow was never known
For sure, we'll find out who did it! :)
5. to repine at the loss
Does that mean to grieve?
6. the melancholy (1) tenants of a solitary home
Counting melancholy
7. that the drama assimilating more to his taste than any other study
Now I know why a servant was quoting Shakespeare!
8. in the train of Thespis
What does that mean?
9. Pardon my tears
Tears allowed on the death of Terence's first master
10. the body of the deceased was placed in a gondola
When I was in Venice, I saw a wedding party (bride and groom) in a gondola!
11. poured forth the true Irish howl...redoubled his cries...he wept
More tears...
Ends on page 10 with...
a pledge of his welcome beneath his roof
...in which Urbino rescues Terence from drowning
1. in the city of Venice
I was in Venice!
2. sublunary pilgrimage
I know this refers to the doctor's wife short life, but what does this phrase actually mean?
3. had disobliged her parents
What does that term mean?
4. the hand which gave the blow was never known
For sure, we'll find out who did it! :)
5. to repine at the loss
Does that mean to grieve?
6. the melancholy (1) tenants of a solitary home
Counting melancholy
7. that the drama assimilating more to his taste than any other study
Now I know why a servant was quoting Shakespeare!
8. in the train of Thespis
What does that mean?
9. Pardon my tears
Tears allowed on the death of Terence's first master
10. the body of the deceased was placed in a gondola
When I was in Venice, I saw a wedding party (bride and groom) in a gondola!
11. poured forth the true Irish howl...redoubled his cries...he wept
More tears...
Ends on page 10 with...
a pledge of his welcome beneath his roof
17lyzard
>15 SqueakyChu: Ditto, Heather!
18lyzard
>16 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 1, Part 2
1. Ooh, lucky you! I hope no-one tried to stab you or poison you?? :D
2. "Sublunary" means earthly, as opposed to spiritual; or "on earth" as opposed to "in heaven". The phrase refers to the idea of life as a pilgrimage, in which people are tested by God. So briefly, her journey through life.
3. She disobeyed them; the expression is most commonly used in the context of marrying without parental consent or in opposition to their wishes.
4. Wait and see!
5. Yes - particularly in the sense of not accepting God's will.
6. From memory there aren't that many of them...
7. :)
8. Thespis was (supposedly) the first ever professional actor, in ancient Greece. "Thespian" is another word for actor.
9. Showing that Terence has the right kind of "feeling" heart, putting him on the side of the Gothic good guys.
10. I hope they didn't meet Terence's fate??
11. So far I think the boys are doing more crying than the girls! (Note, though, that Terence's emotionalism is linked to him being Irish.)
Chapter 1, Part 2
1. Ooh, lucky you! I hope no-one tried to stab you or poison you?? :D
2. "Sublunary" means earthly, as opposed to spiritual; or "on earth" as opposed to "in heaven". The phrase refers to the idea of life as a pilgrimage, in which people are tested by God. So briefly, her journey through life.
3. She disobeyed them; the expression is most commonly used in the context of marrying without parental consent or in opposition to their wishes.
4. Wait and see!
5. Yes - particularly in the sense of not accepting God's will.
6. From memory there aren't that many of them...
7. :)
8. Thespis was (supposedly) the first ever professional actor, in ancient Greece. "Thespian" is another word for actor.
9. Showing that Terence has the right kind of "feeling" heart, putting him on the side of the Gothic good guys.
10. I hope they didn't meet Terence's fate??
11. So far I think the boys are doing more crying than the girls! (Note, though, that Terence's emotionalism is linked to him being Irish.)
19SqueakyChu
Chapter 1 - Part 3
...in which Urbino must leave Venice
1. the sallies of his humour not unfrequently contributed to their amusement
What are sallies?
2. some of their most favourite passages...and equally excited their risibility by the national twang
What is risibility?
3. Jeronymo...repute as an apothecary
These people scare me in gothic novels because they can also make poison!
4. lean and slipper'd panataloon
To what does this phrase refer?
5. "Lasso! Lasso!"
What does that mean?
6. "You must be satisfied to remain in ignorance of the spot of our destination till we arrive at it"
Ha! Very mysterious...
7. with the tears streaming down his cheeks...bursting into a fresh flood of tears
Tears of joy, I presumed, at Urbino's safety. But, no, I see that they were tears of sadness at the thought of being left behind.
8. Never was his silence so eloquent
This is an amusing statement.
9. the snuff of a potato
Whatever could that be?!
10. taking up a small casket
Not a funeral casket, I'm guessing. So what is the casket that Urbino took up?
11. Who takes over Urbino's household now? Riccardo?
12. the females, half weeping
Now the females get into the tearful act.
Ends on page 16 with...
opened to him as its respected master.
...in which Urbino must leave Venice
1. the sallies of his humour not unfrequently contributed to their amusement
What are sallies?
2. some of their most favourite passages...and equally excited their risibility by the national twang
What is risibility?
3. Jeronymo...repute as an apothecary
These people scare me in gothic novels because they can also make poison!
4. lean and slipper'd panataloon
To what does this phrase refer?
5. "Lasso! Lasso!"
What does that mean?
6. "You must be satisfied to remain in ignorance of the spot of our destination till we arrive at it"
Ha! Very mysterious...
7. with the tears streaming down his cheeks...bursting into a fresh flood of tears
Tears of joy, I presumed, at Urbino's safety. But, no, I see that they were tears of sadness at the thought of being left behind.
8. Never was his silence so eloquent
This is an amusing statement.
9. the snuff of a potato
Whatever could that be?!
10. taking up a small casket
Not a funeral casket, I'm guessing. So what is the casket that Urbino took up?
11. Who takes over Urbino's household now? Riccardo?
12. the females, half weeping
Now the females get into the tearful act.
Ends on page 16 with...
opened to him as its respected master.
20lyzard
>19 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 1, Part 3
1. To sally is to do something suddenly or unexpectedly, so he's inserting jokes into the conversation.
2. Their sense of humour.
3. And we all know Venice is awash with poison!
4. That's from the famous "All the world's a stage / The men and women merely players" speech from As You Like It. A pantaloon in this context is a stock character from the classic Italian comedies ("Pantalone"), an old man pursuing a young woman, who was usually portrayed as very tall and thin.
5. Italian for, "Alas! Alas!"
6. Of course. :)
7. Both kinds of tears, eventually.
8. Well, it makes a pleasant change from Terence!
9. Specifically it's probably a reference to the fact that snuff-boxes (boxes for carrying powdered tobacco, which was inhaled) were often made out of dried and varnished potato pulp, but in context it's an expression meaning something of no value - as you might say, "I don't care two hoots" or "I couldn't care less."
10. No, something like a small jewellery box.
11. If he intends to leave Venice altogether, he will have the house shut up and call the other servants away.
12. But the girls are always half weeping! The boys still have them beaten. :)
Chapter 1, Part 3
1. To sally is to do something suddenly or unexpectedly, so he's inserting jokes into the conversation.
2. Their sense of humour.
3. And we all know Venice is awash with poison!
4. That's from the famous "All the world's a stage / The men and women merely players" speech from As You Like It. A pantaloon in this context is a stock character from the classic Italian comedies ("Pantalone"), an old man pursuing a young woman, who was usually portrayed as very tall and thin.
5. Italian for, "Alas! Alas!"
6. Of course. :)
7. Both kinds of tears, eventually.
8. Well, it makes a pleasant change from Terence!
9. Specifically it's probably a reference to the fact that snuff-boxes (boxes for carrying powdered tobacco, which was inhaled) were often made out of dried and varnished potato pulp, but in context it's an expression meaning something of no value - as you might say, "I don't care two hoots" or "I couldn't care less."
10. No, something like a small jewellery box.
11. If he intends to leave Venice altogether, he will have the house shut up and call the other servants away.
12. But the girls are always half weeping! The boys still have them beaten. :)
21SqueakyChu
Chapter 2 - Part 1
... in which the girls learn of their destination
1. brought them to one of the houses of resort for the gondoliers
What is a house of resort?
2. whose avocation it was to ply in the gulf
Does that mean to seek others who need transportation on water?
3. brought our travelers to a rural albergo
What is an albergo?
4. That I shall ever give you a solution of the past you must not hope
Is Urbino saying that he will never divulge what happened in his past?
5. Valeria and her cousin wept
Okay. They left their home.
6. Why did Terence have to ride on a mule? Because he was a mere servant?
7. Castello della Torvida...the Castello was very ancient, and considerably out of repair...for some years uninhabited...gloomy and unalluring
Just what we needed...a gloomy castle! :)
Ends on page 23 with...
but that of her protector.
... in which the girls learn of their destination
1. brought them to one of the houses of resort for the gondoliers
What is a house of resort?
2. whose avocation it was to ply in the gulf
Does that mean to seek others who need transportation on water?
3. brought our travelers to a rural albergo
What is an albergo?
4. That I shall ever give you a solution of the past you must not hope
Is Urbino saying that he will never divulge what happened in his past?
5. Valeria and her cousin wept
Okay. They left their home.
6. Why did Terence have to ride on a mule? Because he was a mere servant?
7. Castello della Torvida...the Castello was very ancient, and considerably out of repair...for some years uninhabited...gloomy and unalluring
Just what we needed...a gloomy castle! :)
Ends on page 23 with...
but that of her protector.
22lyzard
>21 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 2, Part 1
1. A place where the gondoliers wait to be hired (possibly an inn or somewhere else they can get refreshments).
2. No, that means its their job to transport people across the water.
3. A country inn.
4. That's what he's saying... :)
5. I'm glad you allow crying under some circumstances! :D
6. Yes, the servants didn't usually travel with their employers.
7. Yes, EXACTLY what we need!
Chapter 2, Part 1
1. A place where the gondoliers wait to be hired (possibly an inn or somewhere else they can get refreshments).
2. No, that means its their job to transport people across the water.
3. A country inn.
4. That's what he's saying... :)
5. I'm glad you allow crying under some circumstances! :D
6. Yes, the servants didn't usually travel with their employers.
7. Yes, EXACTLY what we need!
23SqueakyChu
I love this book so far! :)
24SqueakyChu
I'm skipping tonight because I was out of town earlier and now I'm home rooting for the Baltimore team to win tonight's football game. I'll read some more tomorrow. Go Ravens!
26CDVicarage
I've just got my copy - the first Gothic novel I'd had to pay for, so it had better be worth it! - and I shall catch up as soon as I can.
29SqueakyChu
Chapter 2 - Part 2
... in which Urbino and entourage find lodging for the night
1. he turned aside to wipe the dew of sensibility from his overflowing eyes
Urbino is crying, too?!
2. one league north of Malina
Is Malina a real place? How about Castello della Torvida?
3. It will be very melancholy (2) to live in such solitude
4. he clapped his hand upon the medicine chest, with an air which implied that he foresaw how serviceable, in such solitude, its content might prove
In what way?
5. a flask of excellent wine was produced, in a bumper
What is a bumper?
Ends on page 28 with...
...and sunk to sleep
... in which Urbino and entourage find lodging for the night
1. he turned aside to wipe the dew of sensibility from his overflowing eyes
Urbino is crying, too?!
2. one league north of Malina
Is Malina a real place? How about Castello della Torvida?
3. It will be very melancholy (2) to live in such solitude
4. he clapped his hand upon the medicine chest, with an air which implied that he foresaw how serviceable, in such solitude, its content might prove
In what way?
5. a flask of excellent wine was produced, in a bumper
What is a bumper?
Ends on page 28 with...
...and sunk to sleep
30lyzard
>28 SqueakyChu:
Congratulations! :)
>29 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 2, Part 2
1. But of course!
2. There is a real Malina, although I'm not sure if the same place is meant - it is in the far north-east of Italy near the border with Slovenia.
The Castello is not a real place.
3. :)
4. The castle is in such a solitary spot, they will have to rely upon Jeronymo if they need medicine or a tonic or any other such preparation.
5. "In a bumper of which---" - a bumper is a large glass, usually used for serving spirits, but in this case the wine has been served in such a glass. (In such an isolated spot they probably don't bother keeping different glassware for different drinks.)
Congratulations! :)
>29 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 2, Part 2
1. But of course!
2. There is a real Malina, although I'm not sure if the same place is meant - it is in the far north-east of Italy near the border with Slovenia.
The Castello is not a real place.
3. :)
4. The castle is in such a solitary spot, they will have to rely upon Jeronymo if they need medicine or a tonic or any other such preparation.
5. "In a bumper of which---" - a bumper is a large glass, usually used for serving spirits, but in this case the wine has been served in such a glass. (In such an isolated spot they probably don't bother keeping different glassware for different drinks.)
32CDVicarage
>31 SqueakyChu: Thanks, Madeline. I've caught up with you now; it's all fairly straightforward so far, isn't it?
35lyzard
No, that'll keep for a while. :)
But you remind me that I need to go back and fill in the character list...
But you remind me that I need to go back and fill in the character list...
36SqueakyChu
Chapter 3
...in which Urbino visits the castle
1. un soldo, un soldo
Here I assume that Bianca is a beggar and that un soldo is a unit of currency. Is that correct?
2. real, natural smoke was seen
From this, I deduce that someone is now inhabiting the castle or a least passed through the castle five months ago.
3. saw a light
So the castle is still inhabited.
4. surrounded by a heavy colonnade
What is a colonnade?
5. Oooh! They're creeping about in this old castle! :D
6. I think someone is living in the room of which the door refuses to budge.
7. some of the stones form the balustrades...have forced their way through the roof
What are balustrades?
8. Is there some significance to the particular song which Paulina chose to sing for Averilla?
Ends on page 39 with...
...perpetually haunted.
...in which Urbino visits the castle
1. un soldo, un soldo
Here I assume that Bianca is a beggar and that un soldo is a unit of currency. Is that correct?
2. real, natural smoke was seen
From this, I deduce that someone is now inhabiting the castle or a least passed through the castle five months ago.
3. saw a light
So the castle is still inhabited.
4. surrounded by a heavy colonnade
What is a colonnade?
5. Oooh! They're creeping about in this old castle! :D
6. I think someone is living in the room of which the door refuses to budge.
7. some of the stones form the balustrades...have forced their way through the roof
What are balustrades?
8. Is there some significance to the particular song which Paulina chose to sing for Averilla?
Ends on page 39 with...
...perpetually haunted.
37lyzard
>36 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 3
1. Yes, a soldo is a coin.
Bianca is a peasant in very poor circumstances.
2. & 3. Mayyyyyyyybe... :)
4. An architectural feature with a row of columns, which often hold up a roof over a stone floor.
5. That's what you do in old castles, isn't it??
6. Wait and see!
7. Another architectural feature, small columns of wood or stone (individually called balusters) in a row(collectively a balustrade), used to hold something up. In context it sounds as if there was a stone balustrade around the roof which has collapsed.
8. Well, it's a song about a girl getting jilted, so we'll see...
Chapter 3
1. Yes, a soldo is a coin.
Bianca is a peasant in very poor circumstances.
2. & 3. Mayyyyyyyybe... :)
4. An architectural feature with a row of columns, which often hold up a roof over a stone floor.
5. That's what you do in old castles, isn't it??
6. Wait and see!
7. Another architectural feature, small columns of wood or stone (individually called balusters) in a row(collectively a balustrade), used to hold something up. In context it sounds as if there was a stone balustrade around the roof which has collapsed.
8. Well, it's a song about a girl getting jilted, so we'll see...
38SqueakyChu
Chapter 3
5. That's what you do in old castles, isn't it??
LOL!
5. That's what you do in old castles, isn't it??
LOL!
39SqueakyChu
Chapter 4 - Part 1
...in which the previously jammed door in the castle is easily opened with a key
1. Why does Terence want to be Urbino's only man-servant? Would that give him the highest rank since surely he ranks higher than a female servant?
2. the hand's turn of such spalpeans is not worth the filings of a harper
What are spalpeans? What are filings? Is an harper an harpist?
3. to take his curricle-horses, and get them sold
What are curricle-horses?
4. Is it a big deal to have more servants rather than fewer servants?
5. end of the whole hipothic at once
What is hipothic?
6. my wages are paid for seven years to come, that's all
Is Terence offering to work for Urbino for seven straight years even if Urbino's financial circumstances change?
7. you had only been an actor
Now I'm wondering what Terence had been beside an actor and a man-servant.
8. I should like a bit of a place as near you as possible
I'm beginning to wonder how much I should trust Terence.
9. AVOID THESE WALLS!
Oh, fun!!
10. I never met with anything so unaccountable in my life
I think the inhabitant knew that Urbino was returning and cleared out of the room. The sign was just to scare Urbino and Terence.
Ends on page 45 with...
" I am very certain it bears no reference whatever to that circumstance," answered Urbino.
...in which the previously jammed door in the castle is easily opened with a key
1. Why does Terence want to be Urbino's only man-servant? Would that give him the highest rank since surely he ranks higher than a female servant?
2. the hand's turn of such spalpeans is not worth the filings of a harper
What are spalpeans? What are filings? Is an harper an harpist?
3. to take his curricle-horses, and get them sold
What are curricle-horses?
4. Is it a big deal to have more servants rather than fewer servants?
5. end of the whole hipothic at once
What is hipothic?
6. my wages are paid for seven years to come, that's all
Is Terence offering to work for Urbino for seven straight years even if Urbino's financial circumstances change?
7. you had only been an actor
Now I'm wondering what Terence had been beside an actor and a man-servant.
8. I should like a bit of a place as near you as possible
I'm beginning to wonder how much I should trust Terence.
9. AVOID THESE WALLS!
Oh, fun!!
10. I never met with anything so unaccountable in my life
I think the inhabitant knew that Urbino was returning and cleared out of the room. The sign was just to scare Urbino and Terence.
Ends on page 45 with...
" I am very certain it bears no reference whatever to that circumstance," answered Urbino.
40lyzard
>39 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 4, Part 1
1. Partly for rank, partly because in his experience the work gets done better and faster by one person who knows what they're doing rather than split up.
2. More commonly spelled "spalpeen", an Irish expression meaning a rogue or an untrustworthy person.
"Harper" is italicised so it's meant to be said in an Irish accent but I can't think of a single word that makes sense in that context.
Anyway, he's trying to describe how worthless someone is. (I'll keep thinking about possibilities!)
3. A curricle is a two-wheeled carriage meant for two people; it was usual to drive them with a matched pair of horses.
4. It's a mark of your wealth and social status.
5. I think he's trying to say "hypothetical".
6. Yes.
7. I think we're just to assume that Terence is a bit of a Jack of all trades.
8. My, you are suspicious! :)
9. Mwoo-ha-ha!!
10. Wait and see... :)
Chapter 4, Part 1
1. Partly for rank, partly because in his experience the work gets done better and faster by one person who knows what they're doing rather than split up.
2. More commonly spelled "spalpeen", an Irish expression meaning a rogue or an untrustworthy person.
"Harper" is italicised so it's meant to be said in an Irish accent but I can't think of a single word that makes sense in that context.
Anyway, he's trying to describe how worthless someone is. (I'll keep thinking about possibilities!)
3. A curricle is a two-wheeled carriage meant for two people; it was usual to drive them with a matched pair of horses.
4. It's a mark of your wealth and social status.
5. I think he's trying to say "hypothetical".
6. Yes.
7. I think we're just to assume that Terence is a bit of a Jack of all trades.
8. My, you are suspicious! :)
9. Mwoo-ha-ha!!
10. Wait and see... :)
41SqueakyChu
Chapter 4, Part 1
8. My, you are suspicious!
LOL!
8. My, you are suspicious!
LOL!
42SqueakyChu
Chapter 4, Part 2
...in which plans are made to fix up the castle's interior
1. Is there significance to the fact that the message had been written in chalk?
2. I have at times had my doubts whether he is quite so deficient in natural sense as he endeavors to display himself, and his mother professes himself to be
Aha! I'm also suspicious of this now!
Ends on page 49 with...
defer their consultations to another day.
...in which plans are made to fix up the castle's interior
1. Is there significance to the fact that the message had been written in chalk?
2. I have at times had my doubts whether he is quite so deficient in natural sense as he endeavors to display himself, and his mother professes himself to be
Aha! I'm also suspicious of this now!
Ends on page 49 with...
defer their consultations to another day.
43lyzard
>42 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 4, Part 2
1. No, that's just what would come to hand in such a lonely place and what would write upon a solid surface.
2. Would it be easier to list the people you are NOT suspicious of?? :D
Chapter 4, Part 2
1. No, that's just what would come to hand in such a lonely place and what would write upon a solid surface.
2. Would it be easier to list the people you are NOT suspicious of?? :D
44SqueakyChu
>43 lyzard:
Chapter 4, Part 2
2. Would it be easier to list the people you are NOT suspicious of??
Yes. :)
Chapter 4, Part 2
2. Would it be easier to list the people you are NOT suspicious of??
Yes. :)
46SqueakyChu
LOL!
47SqueakyChu
Chapter 5 - Part 1
...in which Valeria meets a young shepherd
1. in order to provide themselves with a change of habiliments
I'm assuming that habiliments are clothes?
2. I can now never expect to see him again from whose hand I received it
Is this because the person who gave Valeria the artificial daisies will no longer be able to know her whereabouts? Another mystery! Who gave this to her?! I know. "Wait and see." :)
3. the scanty harvest of sublunary joy
What does sublunary mean?
4. the characters assumed by the two friends were those of Flora (this was Paulina) and Hebe (this was Valeria)
Who were Flora and Hebe?
5. with an osier basket in her hand
What is an osier basket?
6. the very goddess of the sylvan groves
What is a sylvan grove?
7. but still he had not declared his passion
Was this hesitancy to declare his passion because of his good breeding?
8. a student from St. Peter's at Rome
From this statement, can we deduce what kind of student Julio was (i.e. what he was studying)?
9. What festival was being celebrated?
10. she in return placed before him a glass of aucharde
What is aucharde?
Ends on page 54 with
"...of which you have deprived me."
...in which Valeria meets a young shepherd
1. in order to provide themselves with a change of habiliments
I'm assuming that habiliments are clothes?
2. I can now never expect to see him again from whose hand I received it
Is this because the person who gave Valeria the artificial daisies will no longer be able to know her whereabouts? Another mystery! Who gave this to her?! I know. "Wait and see." :)
3. the scanty harvest of sublunary joy
What does sublunary mean?
4. the characters assumed by the two friends were those of Flora (this was Paulina) and Hebe (this was Valeria)
Who were Flora and Hebe?
5. with an osier basket in her hand
What is an osier basket?
6. the very goddess of the sylvan groves
What is a sylvan grove?
7. but still he had not declared his passion
Was this hesitancy to declare his passion because of his good breeding?
8. a student from St. Peter's at Rome
From this statement, can we deduce what kind of student Julio was (i.e. what he was studying)?
9. What festival was being celebrated?
10. she in return placed before him a glass of aucharde
What is aucharde?
Ends on page 54 with
"...of which you have deprived me."
48lyzard
>47 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 5, Part 1
1. Yes.
2. Yes. And, hey! - you're learning... :)
3. See #18 above. It means "earthly", or "during life" (as opposed to spiritual, or during the afterlife).
4. Flora was the Roman goddess of flowers and the spring; Hebe was the Greek goddess of youth. ("Hebe", however, was also used as a general term for a young and beautiful woman.)
5. A basket made out of woven willow twigs; "osier" is a species of willow tree. Weaving of this type was an extensive cottage industry.
6. Technically a wooded area, but "sylvan grove" was also used at this time as a romanticised term for "garden".
7. More likely because there's a reason he couldn't or shouldn't.
8. That would have been a "finishing" education for young men consisting of classical literature, philosophy and religion.
9. Many Catholic countries have a carnival immediately before Lent - a big party before the period of fasting and renunciation that leads up to Easter. The Venetian carnival was very famous: it lasted from after Christmas until Lent in March or April. It was where the custom of wearing masks and adopting costumes for the carnival began.
10. I think that must be a variant spelling of something - possibly "orchard", a kind of fruit punch.
Chapter 5, Part 1
1. Yes.
2. Yes. And, hey! - you're learning... :)
3. See #18 above. It means "earthly", or "during life" (as opposed to spiritual, or during the afterlife).
4. Flora was the Roman goddess of flowers and the spring; Hebe was the Greek goddess of youth. ("Hebe", however, was also used as a general term for a young and beautiful woman.)
5. A basket made out of woven willow twigs; "osier" is a species of willow tree. Weaving of this type was an extensive cottage industry.
6. Technically a wooded area, but "sylvan grove" was also used at this time as a romanticised term for "garden".
7. More likely because there's a reason he couldn't or shouldn't.
8. That would have been a "finishing" education for young men consisting of classical literature, philosophy and religion.
9. Many Catholic countries have a carnival immediately before Lent - a big party before the period of fasting and renunciation that leads up to Easter. The Venetian carnival was very famous: it lasted from after Christmas until Lent in March or April. It was where the custom of wearing masks and adopting costumes for the carnival began.
10. I think that must be a variant spelling of something - possibly "orchard", a kind of fruit punch.
49souloftherose
Just to say I've started reading now. Not very far in yet so will go back and read the questions and answers.
50lyzard
Welcome, Heather! This one takes a while to really get going so it shouldn't take you long to catch up.
51SqueakyChu
I'm skipping tonight. My kids were here for a late dinner. I'll continue tomorrow.
52luvamystery65
Popping in to mark a spot. Back to lurk later.
54SqueakyChu
Hi, Roberta. Welcome!
Liz, I have to take a hiatus from our tutored read for a few days. My best friend's mom suddenly died overnight last night. I spent the day with my friend and will continue to do so in the days ahead. I'll let you know when I'm ready to start back on our novel.
Liz, I have to take a hiatus from our tutored read for a few days. My best friend's mom suddenly died overnight last night. I spent the day with my friend and will continue to do so in the days ahead. I'll let you know when I'm ready to start back on our novel.
56souloftherose
>54 SqueakyChu: Sorry to hear that Madeline.
I'm at the end of chapter 2 now and so far I think I prefer this to Eliza Parsons' The Castle of Wolfenbach.
I'm at the end of chapter 2 now and so far I think I prefer this to Eliza Parsons' The Castle of Wolfenbach.
57SqueakyChu
Chapter 5, Part 2
...in which Valeria meets Julio and awaits his return
1. I seek to kill myself with joy
What an odd expression!
2. I will not undertake to be your donna attempata in public
What does donna attempata mean?
3. and Paulina's equipment being complete
What does this phrase mean?
4. had simply thrown a domino across his shoulders
What does that mean?
5. I'm wondering why this older man (the unidentified tall pilgrim) is so interested in Paulina.
6. I have no idea what the following means. Could you explain it to me?
let us draw a veil over the rashness and immorality of the self-immolating victim, who for "a rush, a straw," flies unsummoned into the presence of his offended Maker, and leaves his memory a curse to those from whom affection draws a tear that sterner virtue frowns upon.
Ends on page 61 with...
to the chapel of San Lorenzo.
...in which Valeria meets Julio and awaits his return
1. I seek to kill myself with joy
What an odd expression!
2. I will not undertake to be your donna attempata in public
What does donna attempata mean?
3. and Paulina's equipment being complete
What does this phrase mean?
4. had simply thrown a domino across his shoulders
What does that mean?
5. I'm wondering why this older man (the unidentified tall pilgrim) is so interested in Paulina.
6. I have no idea what the following means. Could you explain it to me?
let us draw a veil over the rashness and immorality of the self-immolating victim, who for "a rush, a straw," flies unsummoned into the presence of his offended Maker, and leaves his memory a curse to those from whom affection draws a tear that sterner virtue frowns upon.
Ends on page 61 with...
to the chapel of San Lorenzo.
58lyzard
>56 souloftherose: Ooh, sorry, Heather - missed this! Glad you're enjoying Italian Mysteries (hope you still are!).
>57 SqueakyChu: Nice to have you back on board, Madeline - sorry you've been having a difficult time lately.
>57 SqueakyChu: Nice to have you back on board, Madeline - sorry you've been having a difficult time lately.
59lyzard
>57 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 5, Part 2
1. He's so happy already it's almost killing him, but even so he will accept more favours (and more joy) from her.
2. Strictly it means "elderly woman", but what Valeria means is that she (slightly older and more serious) is in effect Pauline's chaperone. She is saying that if Pauline doesn't calm down a bit she won't go out with her, and therefore Pauline won't be able to go either.
3. She is fully dressed for going out (they're going to the opera so her outfit is probably quite elaborate).
4. A domino is a long hooded cloak. If people went to costume balls but didn't want to dress up, they could wear a domino with the hood up and a mask across their eyes as an acceptable alternative. (This was what Urbino was wearing, while the girls dressed up as Flora and Hebe.)
5. Wait and see. :)
6. Briefly, "suicide is bad".
Suicide was / is considered one of the worst of all sins, a mortal sin. Along with murder (suicide was "self-murder"), it meant that a person died without a chance of repenting and/or receiving absolution, and arrived in the afterlife with the sin still upon them.
As this passage puts it, the person who commits suicide does not wait for God to "summon" him, and thus God is "offended". Because he has committed such a dreadful sin, his family will curse his memory rather than grieve for him.
Chapter 5, Part 2
1. He's so happy already it's almost killing him, but even so he will accept more favours (and more joy) from her.
2. Strictly it means "elderly woman", but what Valeria means is that she (slightly older and more serious) is in effect Pauline's chaperone. She is saying that if Pauline doesn't calm down a bit she won't go out with her, and therefore Pauline won't be able to go either.
3. She is fully dressed for going out (they're going to the opera so her outfit is probably quite elaborate).
4. A domino is a long hooded cloak. If people went to costume balls but didn't want to dress up, they could wear a domino with the hood up and a mask across their eyes as an acceptable alternative. (This was what Urbino was wearing, while the girls dressed up as Flora and Hebe.)
5. Wait and see. :)
6. Briefly, "suicide is bad".
Suicide was / is considered one of the worst of all sins, a mortal sin. Along with murder (suicide was "self-murder"), it meant that a person died without a chance of repenting and/or receiving absolution, and arrived in the afterlife with the sin still upon them.
As this passage puts it, the person who commits suicide does not wait for God to "summon" him, and thus God is "offended". Because he has committed such a dreadful sin, his family will curse his memory rather than grieve for him.
61SqueakyChu
>59 lyzard:
Chapter 5, Part 2
6. I don't know why that reference was made to suicide. In the previous paragraph, the reference was to Valeria's brother's being a homicide victim due to being slain by sword.
Chapter 5, Part 2
6. I don't know why that reference was made to suicide. In the previous paragraph, the reference was to Valeria's brother's being a homicide victim due to being slain by sword.
62lyzard
It's a condemnation of duelling - both parties went into a duel knowing there was a good chance they were going to die on the spot. It was therefore often considered a form of suicide as the person who did die would "fl(y) unsummoned into the presence of his offended Maker", while the other party would effectively be a murderer. Many duels were fought over incredibly trivial things - "a rush, a straw" - which made it all the worse.
63SqueakyChu
That makes much more sense. However, it make me think that this was a case of fighting over the trivial. I'll have to "wait and see" if that was true, though. :)
65SqueakyChu
Chapter 6, Part 1
...in which Valeria and Paulina attend another party
1. it was certainly a very melancholy (3) situation
Counting melancholy
2. arranged those affairs which Di Cavetti's abrupt departure from that city had caused him to leave in confusion
How did the tenant farmer have the right to handle Di Cavetti's affairs?
3. a far better thing than that --- potatoes
I guess because Terence is Irish, but, the funny thing is, I have potatoes roasting in my own oven as I'm writing this! :)
4. a sharer of my husband's alms
What does that mean?
5. in his melancholy (4) situation
Counting melancholy
Ends on page 69 with...
several of Sancho's guests.
...in which Valeria and Paulina attend another party
1. it was certainly a very melancholy (3) situation
Counting melancholy
2. arranged those affairs which Di Cavetti's abrupt departure from that city had caused him to leave in confusion
How did the tenant farmer have the right to handle Di Cavetti's affairs?
3. a far better thing than that --- potatoes
I guess because Terence is Irish, but, the funny thing is, I have potatoes roasting in my own oven as I'm writing this! :)
4. a sharer of my husband's alms
What does that mean?
5. in his melancholy (4) situation
Counting melancholy
Ends on page 69 with...
several of Sancho's guests.
66lyzard
>65 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 6, Part 1
1. & 5. It seems the melancholies are increasing; I wonder if that's significant...?
2. He would have received authorisation from Di Cavetti to do so, probably in the form of letters. (Though if he were paying bills etc., people probably wouldn't care who the money was coming from.)
3. Yes, poor Terence! - but personally I love potatoes and won't hear a word against them!
4. That the poor woman is one of those who regularly receives charity from Sancho.
Chapter 6, Part 1
1. & 5. It seems the melancholies are increasing; I wonder if that's significant...?
2. He would have received authorisation from Di Cavetti to do so, probably in the form of letters. (Though if he were paying bills etc., people probably wouldn't care who the money was coming from.)
3. Yes, poor Terence! - but personally I love potatoes and won't hear a word against them!
4. That the poor woman is one of those who regularly receives charity from Sancho.
67SqueakyChu
1. and 5. It seems the melancholies are increasing; I wonder if that's significant...?
Since it's you that mentioned this, I'm assuming so! :)
2. Sancho certainly gained Di Cavetti's trust quickly!
3. I love potatoes, too, and am making this recipe tonight! :)
Since it's you that mentioned this, I'm assuming so! :)
2. Sancho certainly gained Di Cavetti's trust quickly!
3. I love potatoes, too, and am making this recipe tonight! :)
68lyzard
2. They have been in contact as landlord and tenant for years and Sancho's behaviour (and his management of the estate) has been exemplary, so Urbino has reason to trust him.
Ah! Unfortunately for me I really don't like capsicum (bell pepper) and I have to tamper with, or give up on, a lot of recipes because of that.
Ah! Unfortunately for me I really don't like capsicum (bell pepper) and I have to tamper with, or give up on, a lot of recipes because of that.
69SqueakyChu
>68 lyzard:
I really don't like capsicum (bell pepper)
Yeah. I have a friend who gets a systemic inflammatory reaction after eating any nightshade veggies. This recipe came out great, though. It's a keeper. I'll save my potato recipes for Terence from now on. ;)
I really don't like capsicum (bell pepper)
Yeah. I have a friend who gets a systemic inflammatory reaction after eating any nightshade veggies. This recipe came out great, though. It's a keeper. I'll save my potato recipes for Terence from now on. ;)
70SqueakyChu
Chapter 6, Part 2
...in which Valeria receives a secret message from Julio
1. Algerine pirates
Pirates from Algeria?
2. and Irish lilt
Some kind of Irish tune or a dance?
3. fix twenty-seven as finitum of dancing age
Is that why my daughter doesn't like to dance? She's 29. ;)
Ends on page with 73
inviolable to every human being
...in which Valeria receives a secret message from Julio
1. Algerine pirates
Pirates from Algeria?
2. and Irish lilt
Some kind of Irish tune or a dance?
3. fix twenty-seven as finitum of dancing age
Is that why my daughter doesn't like to dance? She's 29. ;)
Ends on page with 73
inviolable to every human being
71lyzard
>70 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 6, Part 2
1. Strictly, pirates who swore allegiance to the ruler of Algiers (Algeria) and Tripoli, when they were part of the Ottoman Empire. Pirates from the north of Africa, usually called "Barbary pirates", operated throughout the 18th century and were the main reason a number Mediterranean countries developed a proper navy.
2. The Irish lilt is a very energetic folk dance. These days it's usually performed by groups of girls, but Francesca's cross remark about Irishmen dancing by themselves tells us Terence was performing alone for the crowd. (You can find lilts on YouTube, if you want to know what they look like.)
3. Or maybe she's a klutz like me?? :)
Chapter 6, Part 2
1. Strictly, pirates who swore allegiance to the ruler of Algiers (Algeria) and Tripoli, when they were part of the Ottoman Empire. Pirates from the north of Africa, usually called "Barbary pirates", operated throughout the 18th century and were the main reason a number Mediterranean countries developed a proper navy.
2. The Irish lilt is a very energetic folk dance. These days it's usually performed by groups of girls, but Francesca's cross remark about Irishmen dancing by themselves tells us Terence was performing alone for the crowd. (You can find lilts on YouTube, if you want to know what they look like.)
3. Or maybe she's a klutz like me?? :)
72SqueakyChu
3. You're probably just 16 or younger or 28 or older. ;)
74SqueakyChu
Chapter 7, Part 1
...in which Francisca quits her job because of a ghost
1. infinitely preferred the services of the little girl
Which little girl?
2. To return to the event
There's a lot of skipping around in time in this novel...
3. The Castello is haunted
Would an attendant have the right to quit a family's service just because their abode was haunted?!
4. repeated Francisca, half-weeping
Well, she was only half weeping...so I guess that's okay. ;)
5. A ghost writing a letter!
I'd love to see a ghost like that! :)
6. nothing but ghosts can vanish
I thought that ghosts had a transparent look. Hmm?
7. if a person had the courage to speak to a ghost, it could do them no harm afterwards.
Was this a commonly held belief?
8. she discovered old Jeronymo sleeping in a chair
LOL!
Ends on page 82 with
she rose to retire.
...in which Francisca quits her job because of a ghost
1. infinitely preferred the services of the little girl
Which little girl?
2. To return to the event
There's a lot of skipping around in time in this novel...
3. The Castello is haunted
Would an attendant have the right to quit a family's service just because their abode was haunted?!
4. repeated Francisca, half-weeping
Well, she was only half weeping...so I guess that's okay. ;)
5. A ghost writing a letter!
I'd love to see a ghost like that! :)
6. nothing but ghosts can vanish
I thought that ghosts had a transparent look. Hmm?
7. if a person had the courage to speak to a ghost, it could do them no harm afterwards.
Was this a commonly held belief?
8. she discovered old Jeronymo sleeping in a chair
LOL!
Ends on page 82 with
she rose to retire.
75lyzard
Goodness me! I wasn't expecting to wake up to this! :)
>74 SqueakyChu:
1. When we are first introduced to Sancho's household (p27), there is a mention of a young servant girl.
2. You ain't seen nuthin' yet!
3. She's a servant, not a slave! She can quit whenever she likes.
4. Meaning not so much she can't talk. :)
5. Be careful what you pray for...
6. I don't think there's any consensus about what ghosts look like. Supposedly they are invisible but can allow the living to see them if they choose.
7. It's one of many, many, many traditions about dealing with ghosts. (In other words, there's no one "right" way!)
8. :D
>74 SqueakyChu:
1. When we are first introduced to Sancho's household (p27), there is a mention of a young servant girl.
2. You ain't seen nuthin' yet!
3. She's a servant, not a slave! She can quit whenever she likes.
4. Meaning not so much she can't talk. :)
5. Be careful what you pray for...
6. I don't think there's any consensus about what ghosts look like. Supposedly they are invisible but can allow the living to see them if they choose.
7. It's one of many, many, many traditions about dealing with ghosts. (In other words, there's no one "right" way!)
8. :D
76SqueakyChu
>75 lyzard: Good morning, Liz!
2. You ain't seen nuthin' yet!
Oh. no!!
3. She's a servant, not a slave! She can quit whenever she likes.
LOL!
5. Be careful what you pray for...
You're right! :)
6. I don't think there's any consensus about what ghosts look like. Supposedly they are invisible but can allow the living to see them if they choose.
It seems as if our "ghost" was clearly a man writing a letter and neither invisible nor transparent. :)
7. if a person had the courage to speak to a ghost, it could do them no harm afterwards.
I think that, if a person keeps speaking aloud to a ghost, that would somehow give the living person more courage. Of course, I've never tried this in real life. :)
2. You ain't seen nuthin' yet!
Oh. no!!
3. She's a servant, not a slave! She can quit whenever she likes.
LOL!
5. Be careful what you pray for...
You're right! :)
6. I don't think there's any consensus about what ghosts look like. Supposedly they are invisible but can allow the living to see them if they choose.
It seems as if our "ghost" was clearly a man writing a letter and neither invisible nor transparent. :)
7. if a person had the courage to speak to a ghost, it could do them no harm afterwards.
I think that, if a person keeps speaking aloud to a ghost, that would somehow give the living person more courage. Of course, I've never tried this in real life. :)
77lyzard
2. I warned you at the outset that when this gets confusing, it gets really confusing!
7. Hmm, we'll have to arrange a haunting for you...
7. Hmm, we'll have to arrange a haunting for you...
78SqueakyChu
7. Hmm, we'll have to arrange a haunting for you...
Eeeek!
Eeeek!
79SqueakyChu
Chapter 7, Part 2
...in which a new servant is sought in place of Francisca
1. you have got an amante
Doesn't that mean lover?!
2. This is love at first sight indeed
Bah! I doubt it. I think the signor has an ulterior motive.
3. The heart of Paulina had hitherto escaped unwounded by the darts of the blind god
What does that mean?
4. it was not unlikely that her uncle's plan of seclusion from the world might condemn her to become a leader of apes
What does that mean?
5. till the gordian knot is tied between them
What is a gordian knot?
6. employed in gathering simples from the surrounding woods
What are simples?
7. major-domo of the marchese di Valdetti
What is a major-domo?
8. not many know any thing of the marchese at all
I presume him to be evil. :)
9. his palazzo stands about a league from hence to the south
Is a palazzo a palace? Is that the same or different than a Castello?
10. for peculating the state
What is peculating?
Ends on page 86 with
has driven him into retirement
...in which a new servant is sought in place of Francisca
1. you have got an amante
Doesn't that mean lover?!
2. This is love at first sight indeed
Bah! I doubt it. I think the signor has an ulterior motive.
3. The heart of Paulina had hitherto escaped unwounded by the darts of the blind god
What does that mean?
4. it was not unlikely that her uncle's plan of seclusion from the world might condemn her to become a leader of apes
What does that mean?
5. till the gordian knot is tied between them
What is a gordian knot?
6. employed in gathering simples from the surrounding woods
What are simples?
7. major-domo of the marchese di Valdetti
What is a major-domo?
8. not many know any thing of the marchese at all
I presume him to be evil. :)
9. his palazzo stands about a league from hence to the south
Is a palazzo a palace? Is that the same or different than a Castello?
10. for peculating the state
What is peculating?
Ends on page 86 with
has driven him into retirement
80lyzard
>79 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 7, Part 2
1. Yes.
2. Wait and see...
3. Cupid, the god of love in Latin mythology, was traditionally depicted as either blind or blindfolded---shooting his arrows of love blindly---hence the expression "love is blind". In one version of the story Cupid gets hit with one of his own arrows and falls in love with Psyche, a beautiful mortal. Complications ensue. :)
So anyway---Paulina has never been in love.
4. "Ape-leader" was another expression for "old maid". In Elizabethan times there was a proverb, "They that die maids, lead apes in hell"; Shakespeare picked it up and used it and later it became common slang, particularly during the Regency. (Note, though, that it acquired the sense of old maid along the way; originally it just meant any unmarried woman of any age.)
5. The Gordian knot was an unsolvable puzzle - according to legend, Alexander the Great "solved" it not by undoing it, but by drawing his sword and cutting it in two. "Gordian knot" became an expression meaning a difficult problem requiring drastic action.
In this context, however, "Gordian knot" is a euphemism for marriage, i.e. the bond between husband and wife cannot be undone.
6. A "simple" is a medicinal herb; "simpling" is gathering herbs to be turned into home remedies.
7. A steward, the highest ranking manservant with responsibilities for running the entire household.
8. You would! :)
9. Not a palace, but a palatial building; a palazzo would be bigger and more elaborate than a castello.
10. Embezzling.
Chapter 7, Part 2
1. Yes.
2. Wait and see...
3. Cupid, the god of love in Latin mythology, was traditionally depicted as either blind or blindfolded---shooting his arrows of love blindly---hence the expression "love is blind". In one version of the story Cupid gets hit with one of his own arrows and falls in love with Psyche, a beautiful mortal. Complications ensue. :)
So anyway---Paulina has never been in love.
4. "Ape-leader" was another expression for "old maid". In Elizabethan times there was a proverb, "They that die maids, lead apes in hell"; Shakespeare picked it up and used it and later it became common slang, particularly during the Regency. (Note, though, that it acquired the sense of old maid along the way; originally it just meant any unmarried woman of any age.)
5. The Gordian knot was an unsolvable puzzle - according to legend, Alexander the Great "solved" it not by undoing it, but by drawing his sword and cutting it in two. "Gordian knot" became an expression meaning a difficult problem requiring drastic action.
In this context, however, "Gordian knot" is a euphemism for marriage, i.e. the bond between husband and wife cannot be undone.
6. A "simple" is a medicinal herb; "simpling" is gathering herbs to be turned into home remedies.
7. A steward, the highest ranking manservant with responsibilities for running the entire household.
8. You would! :)
9. Not a palace, but a palatial building; a palazzo would be bigger and more elaborate than a castello.
10. Embezzling.
82SqueakyChu
>81 lyzard:
You've been getting along far too easily with this book!
Haha!
10. "Peculating" is a funny word!
You've been getting along far too easily with this book!
Haha!
10. "Peculating" is a funny word!
83SqueakyChu
Chapter 7, Part 3
...in which Terence meets with the miller
1. a young man in livery
What is livery? Is that clothing for horseback riding?
2. knew but little of his private history
...which makes me suspicious!
3. the domestics in his employment were treated in the most tyrannical and humiliating manner
See?! He's nasty!!
4. The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely
What does contumely mean? What does this whole sentence mean?
5. Who is Paulo?
6. What happened in the paragraph that began "Only a nephew..."?
7. Was a new servant to replace Francisco promised or obtained? I'm confused!
Ends on page 88 with
either the man or the title.
...in which Terence meets with the miller
1. a young man in livery
What is livery? Is that clothing for horseback riding?
2. knew but little of his private history
...which makes me suspicious!
3. the domestics in his employment were treated in the most tyrannical and humiliating manner
See?! He's nasty!!
4. The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely
What does contumely mean? What does this whole sentence mean?
5. Who is Paulo?
6. What happened in the paragraph that began "Only a nephew..."?
7. Was a new servant to replace Francisco promised or obtained? I'm confused!
Ends on page 88 with
either the man or the title.
84lyzard
>83 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 7, Part 3
1. No, it means he's a servant in an important household - livery was a suit of clothing made in colours associated with the family in question.
2. Of course it does!
3. Yes, noblemen often were (at least to their servants!).
4. "Contumely" means contemptuous or insulting behaviour or language. This is another quote from Shakespeare, Hamlet this time; people still argue about how Will meant that line to be taken, but Terence is suggesting that bad behaviour should be treated with contempt.
5. Paolo is the servant (in livery).
6. The Marchese di Valdetti does not have a son, only a nephew called Vincentio, who is his heir. Everyone likes Vincentio as much as they dislike his uncle, because Vincentio is generous and tries to help people. (And then everyone finishes their drinks and goes back to work.)
7. Not definitely. A new servant has been recommended, but the girl is still employed by the Marchese and he may not let her leave. The conversation gets distracted from that point to how nasty the Marchese is to his servants, and nothing is settled.
Chapter 7, Part 3
1. No, it means he's a servant in an important household - livery was a suit of clothing made in colours associated with the family in question.
2. Of course it does!
3. Yes, noblemen often were (at least to their servants!).
4. "Contumely" means contemptuous or insulting behaviour or language. This is another quote from Shakespeare, Hamlet this time; people still argue about how Will meant that line to be taken, but Terence is suggesting that bad behaviour should be treated with contempt.
5. Paolo is the servant (in livery).
6. The Marchese di Valdetti does not have a son, only a nephew called Vincentio, who is his heir. Everyone likes Vincentio as much as they dislike his uncle, because Vincentio is generous and tries to help people. (And then everyone finishes their drinks and goes back to work.)
7. Not definitely. A new servant has been recommended, but the girl is still employed by the Marchese and he may not let her leave. The conversation gets distracted from that point to how nasty the Marchese is to his servants, and nothing is settled.
85SqueakyChu
Thanks for clarifying that nothing happened at the end of this chapter. I thought I was missing something!
86SqueakyChu
Chapter 8, Part 1
...in which Urbino discharges two bullets during the night
1. Was that a common pasttime - turning prose into poetry?
2. proud of his sanguinary load
What does sanguinary mean?
3. the dear-bought meed of victory
Is this the honey-wine mead?
4. blasted the laurels on his brow
What does that mean?
5. The imprecation I despis'd
What does imprecation mean?
6. Profusely shed th'unbidden tear
Crying is okay at a funeral.
7. Is this poem foreshadowing something to come in our story?
8. and securely wafered
What does wafered mean?
9. the bullets had not penetrated the wainscot
I think that the bullets are embedded in something other than the man and the wainscot. This was not seen because of the smoke.
Ends on page 100 with
execution of a master's purpose
...in which Urbino discharges two bullets during the night
1. Was that a common pasttime - turning prose into poetry?
2. proud of his sanguinary load
What does sanguinary mean?
3. the dear-bought meed of victory
Is this the honey-wine mead?
4. blasted the laurels on his brow
What does that mean?
5. The imprecation I despis'd
What does imprecation mean?
6. Profusely shed th'unbidden tear
Crying is okay at a funeral.
7. Is this poem foreshadowing something to come in our story?
8. and securely wafered
What does wafered mean?
9. the bullets had not penetrated the wainscot
I think that the bullets are embedded in something other than the man and the wainscot. This was not seen because of the smoke.
Ends on page 100 with
execution of a master's purpose
87lyzard
>86 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 8, Part 1
1. Not necessarily, but poetry is more "romantic", so this is the sort of thing you find heroines doing. :)
2. "Bloody". In this case, the horse is proud of carrying a victorious soldier (who has presumably killed a lot of the enemy.)
3. No, that's "mead". "Meed" means a deserved share of something (in this case, victory).
4. In ancient Greece, a laurel wreath was a symbol of victory; it was worn on the head (the "brow). "Laurels" later became a generic expression for whatever reward someone gains - laurels could therefore be literal or figurative.
This person has won figurative laurels in battle - he is regarded as a great hero - but he gets conceited and takes all the praise to himself instead of remembering to thank God. So fate steps in to teach him a lesson - terrible things happen to him and undo all his success - i.e. his laurels are "blasted" almost as soon as he has won them ("on his brow").
5. A spoken curse.
6. Good to hear! :)
7. Wait and see? (Perhaps a suggestion that Paulina is more "romantic" than Valeria.)
8. At this time letters were sealed by folding them and then using a sealing device. For important or formal letters you used sealing wax melted onto the paper; you then pressed a seal into it (a stamp with a crest) to show it was from you. For ordinary letters you could use a wafer, which was a pre-made disc made of flour, egg white and water which got sticky when you licked it; you then pressed the sticky side onto your folded letter to seal it.
9. Ah, but...there WAS nothing else but man and wainscot: it's a small windowless room... :)
Chapter 8, Part 1
1. Not necessarily, but poetry is more "romantic", so this is the sort of thing you find heroines doing. :)
2. "Bloody". In this case, the horse is proud of carrying a victorious soldier (who has presumably killed a lot of the enemy.)
3. No, that's "mead". "Meed" means a deserved share of something (in this case, victory).
4. In ancient Greece, a laurel wreath was a symbol of victory; it was worn on the head (the "brow). "Laurels" later became a generic expression for whatever reward someone gains - laurels could therefore be literal or figurative.
This person has won figurative laurels in battle - he is regarded as a great hero - but he gets conceited and takes all the praise to himself instead of remembering to thank God. So fate steps in to teach him a lesson - terrible things happen to him and undo all his success - i.e. his laurels are "blasted" almost as soon as he has won them ("on his brow").
5. A spoken curse.
6. Good to hear! :)
7. Wait and see? (Perhaps a suggestion that Paulina is more "romantic" than Valeria.)
8. At this time letters were sealed by folding them and then using a sealing device. For important or formal letters you used sealing wax melted onto the paper; you then pressed a seal into it (a stamp with a crest) to show it was from you. For ordinary letters you could use a wafer, which was a pre-made disc made of flour, egg white and water which got sticky when you licked it; you then pressed the sticky side onto your folded letter to seal it.
9. Ah, but...there WAS nothing else but man and wainscot: it's a small windowless room... :)
88SqueakyChu
Chapter 8, Part 2
...in which a certain signor spies Paulina again
1.the sun was now at its meridian
Does that mean at its highest and that it was noon?
2. had she not believed that she had seen this person before
I think that this will be an important character.
3. as healthy as hysop
What does hysop have to do with good health?
4. inform my adored Paulina
Funny that he's already adoring her since he's never even met her.
5. putting one piece of gold into my hand at parting
Is this to demonstrate to Francisca that this signor is wealthy or just to bribe her good favor?
6. Isn't that signor (at age 55) too old for Paulina?
7. by value of the bribe
This answers my question number 5 above.
Ends on page 102 with
a summons to the dinner-table.
...in which a certain signor spies Paulina again
1.the sun was now at its meridian
Does that mean at its highest and that it was noon?
2. had she not believed that she had seen this person before
I think that this will be an important character.
3. as healthy as hysop
What does hysop have to do with good health?
4. inform my adored Paulina
Funny that he's already adoring her since he's never even met her.
5. putting one piece of gold into my hand at parting
Is this to demonstrate to Francisca that this signor is wealthy or just to bribe her good favor?
6. Isn't that signor (at age 55) too old for Paulina?
7. by value of the bribe
This answers my question number 5 above.
Ends on page 102 with
a summons to the dinner-table.
89lyzard
>88 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 8, Part 2
1. Yes.
2. Wait and see. :)
3. Hysop, or hyssop, was a plant often used in medicinal compounds; it's also mentioned in the bible as being used in purification ceremonies, which is probably where Francisca's saying comes from.
4. He knows she's pretty - what else matters?
5. & 7. Both, but mostly the latter.
6. I'm sure he doesn't think so.
Chapter 8, Part 2
1. Yes.
2. Wait and see. :)
3. Hysop, or hyssop, was a plant often used in medicinal compounds; it's also mentioned in the bible as being used in purification ceremonies, which is probably where Francisca's saying comes from.
4. He knows she's pretty - what else matters?
5. & 7. Both, but mostly the latter.
6. I'm sure he doesn't think so.
90SqueakyChu
6. I'm sure he doesn't think so.
Haha!
Haha!
91SqueakyChu
Chapter 9
... in which Urbino is kidnapped and asked to perform a dastardly deed
1. that its promulgation may involve me in trouble
What is promulgation?
2. That I wish that confidence to be confined in your own breast
My own philosophy about confidences is to not divulge them if you don't want them spread to others.
3. if reposed in more than two hearts
That should be in one heart!
4. I am neither a boy nor a woman
I beg your pardon! I keep confidences!!
5. La Clemenza di Tito
What does that mean? Is this opera of any significance to our story?
6. a man wrapped in a dark cloak
He wasn't noted as a tall man in a dark cloak, though.
7. which was immediately put into rapid motion
I don't think of gondolas being in rapid motion. Are they even capable of this?
8. with the secrecy of the grave
But, wait! Now Urbino is going to reveal the secret!!
9. ensure my secrecy upon any point connected with my professions
Has the kidnapper never heard of the HIPAA privacy rules? ;)
10. each a thousand pieces of gold
So we know the kidnapper is wealthy and also deduce that from the size of the palazzo.
11. whose features were concealed by a thin veil spread over the countenance
So we cannot know her identity either!
12. for which I had been trepanned into his society
What does trepanned mean?
13. sunk half-fainting upon a chair
The men only "half-faint"? :)
Ends on page 109 with
near to which I had been standing
... in which Urbino is kidnapped and asked to perform a dastardly deed
1. that its promulgation may involve me in trouble
What is promulgation?
2. That I wish that confidence to be confined in your own breast
My own philosophy about confidences is to not divulge them if you don't want them spread to others.
3. if reposed in more than two hearts
That should be in one heart!
4. I am neither a boy nor a woman
I beg your pardon! I keep confidences!!
5. La Clemenza di Tito
What does that mean? Is this opera of any significance to our story?
6. a man wrapped in a dark cloak
He wasn't noted as a tall man in a dark cloak, though.
7. which was immediately put into rapid motion
I don't think of gondolas being in rapid motion. Are they even capable of this?
8. with the secrecy of the grave
But, wait! Now Urbino is going to reveal the secret!!
9. ensure my secrecy upon any point connected with my professions
Has the kidnapper never heard of the HIPAA privacy rules? ;)
10. each a thousand pieces of gold
So we know the kidnapper is wealthy and also deduce that from the size of the palazzo.
11. whose features were concealed by a thin veil spread over the countenance
So we cannot know her identity either!
12. for which I had been trepanned into his society
What does trepanned mean?
13. sunk half-fainting upon a chair
The men only "half-faint"? :)
Ends on page 109 with
near to which I had been standing
92lyzard
>91 SqueakyChu:
You read an entire chapter at one sitting? Wow! :)
Chapter 9
1. A public declaration, or making something widely known.
2. & 3. But then we'd NEVER get to the bottom of our Gothic novel plots!
4. It just be hard, being a perfect ol' Y-chromosome carrier!
5. It's an opera with music by Mozart, adapted from an earlier work by the Italian poet, Pietro Trapassi; it's not significant.
6. We need a line-up of men in dark cloaks: "No, officer, I'm he was taller than that!"
7. They can go a different speeds according to how they're propelled. This one has oars, not merely a pole.
8. Yes, but he is never actually made to promise that he won't, so it's okay.
9. :D
10. ...and from him hiring someone else instead ofdoing his own dirty work providing his own medical care.
11. Of course not!
12. Led or forced into a trap.
13. "He is neither a boy nor a woman!" :)
You read an entire chapter at one sitting? Wow! :)
Chapter 9
1. A public declaration, or making something widely known.
2. & 3. But then we'd NEVER get to the bottom of our Gothic novel plots!
4. It just be hard, being a perfect ol' Y-chromosome carrier!
5. It's an opera with music by Mozart, adapted from an earlier work by the Italian poet, Pietro Trapassi; it's not significant.
6. We need a line-up of men in dark cloaks: "No, officer, I'm he was taller than that!"
7. They can go a different speeds according to how they're propelled. This one has oars, not merely a pole.
8. Yes, but he is never actually made to promise that he won't, so it's okay.
9. :D
10. ...and from him hiring someone else instead of
11. Of course not!
12. Led or forced into a trap.
13. "He is neither a boy nor a woman!" :)
93SqueakyChu
You read an entire chapter at one sitting? Wow!
I did...but it was an especially short one. :)
13. "He is neither a boy nor a woman!"
LOL! Indeed.
95SqueakyChu
:)
96SqueakyChu
Chapter 10, Part 1
...in which Urbino and Sanchez plan to return to the Castello without Valeria and Paulina
1. I repeated my demand of enlargement
What does enlargement mean?
2. I could gain egress from the house
Does that mean exit?
3. Why admit a stranger thus obscurely to his confidence, in a point where there appears no material cause for his requiring an additional participator in his actions?
Good question!
4. No, signor, I cannot suppose that the events which have recently occurred at the Castello della Torvida have any relation with either the persons or facts contained in the recital which you have just given me.
My inclination is to disagree. :)
5. I am not the enemy of those who forebear to injure me.
What does that mean?
6. that he is not the interrupter of the tranquility of the Castello
I think this line is here to throw the reader off.
7. Is Sancho saying he does or does not belief in the supernatural?
8. with a stifled tear
Such a subtle way of crying!
Ends on page 118 with
undisturbed by Terence and Jeronymo
...in which Urbino and Sanchez plan to return to the Castello without Valeria and Paulina
1. I repeated my demand of enlargement
What does enlargement mean?
2. I could gain egress from the house
Does that mean exit?
3. Why admit a stranger thus obscurely to his confidence, in a point where there appears no material cause for his requiring an additional participator in his actions?
Good question!
4. No, signor, I cannot suppose that the events which have recently occurred at the Castello della Torvida have any relation with either the persons or facts contained in the recital which you have just given me.
My inclination is to disagree. :)
5. I am not the enemy of those who forebear to injure me.
What does that mean?
6. that he is not the interrupter of the tranquility of the Castello
I think this line is here to throw the reader off.
7. Is Sancho saying he does or does not belief in the supernatural?
8. with a stifled tear
Such a subtle way of crying!
Ends on page 118 with
undisturbed by Terence and Jeronymo
97lyzard
>96 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 10, Part 1
1. Freedom. In other words, "LET ME GO!!"
2. Yes, leaving a place.
3. :)
4. It would be!
5. "If people don't hurt me, I won't hurt them."
6. You little cynic, you!
7. He's saying that at the moment he doesn't believe, but experiencing what Urbino did might make him change his mind.
8. We're certainly working through all the varieties of not-quite-crying!
Chapter 10, Part 1
1. Freedom. In other words, "LET ME GO!!"
2. Yes, leaving a place.
3. :)
4. It would be!
5. "If people don't hurt me, I won't hurt them."
6. You little cynic, you!
7. He's saying that at the moment he doesn't believe, but experiencing what Urbino did might make him change his mind.
8. We're certainly working through all the varieties of not-quite-crying!
98SqueakyChu
8. We're certainly working through all the varieties of not-quite-crying!
LOL!
Gothic novels bring out the cynicism in me. That's why they're such fun!
LOL!
Gothic novels bring out the cynicism in me. That's why they're such fun!
99SqueakyChu
Chapter 10, Part 2
...in which Valeria secretly meet Julio
1. How can Valeria trust someone so relatively unknown to her to meet that person in a secret place? If she loves, values, and respects her father so much, why would she try to meet Julio without telling her father?
2. might not that portrait represent his wife
I doubt it. I think it's his mother. :)
3. what apology to adduce for absenting herself so long
What does adduce mean?
4. I'm confused. Was Francisca to accompany Valeria to the recluse's hut or not?
5. upon a declivity at its back
What is a declivity?
6. The wicket door of the hut was closed
What does wicket mean?
7. Julio was the recluse!
Eeek!
8. Can you, will you, forgive me?
Of course she will...
9. Oh, be explicit, I beseech you
I want to try that line on my husband! :)
10. with a tear...starting into his eye
Why are all the men crying in this book?!
Ends on page 125 with...
the end of Volume 1
...in which Valeria secretly meet Julio
1. How can Valeria trust someone so relatively unknown to her to meet that person in a secret place? If she loves, values, and respects her father so much, why would she try to meet Julio without telling her father?
2. might not that portrait represent his wife
I doubt it. I think it's his mother. :)
3. what apology to adduce for absenting herself so long
What does adduce mean?
4. I'm confused. Was Francisca to accompany Valeria to the recluse's hut or not?
5. upon a declivity at its back
What is a declivity?
6. The wicket door of the hut was closed
What does wicket mean?
7. Julio was the recluse!
Eeek!
8. Can you, will you, forgive me?
Of course she will...
9. Oh, be explicit, I beseech you
I want to try that line on my husband! :)
10. with a tear...starting into his eye
Why are all the men crying in this book?!
Ends on page 125 with...
the end of Volume 1
100lyzard
>99 SqueakyChu:
Chapter 10, Part 2
1. Because she's a teenager in the throes of first love? :)
2. Wait and see!
3. To offer, or to suggest.
4. No - the official story is that Valeria has gone to visit Averilla at the Castello. She took Francisca with her because she knew she could leave her there and slip away to the hut.
5. A downward slope.
6. A small gate, often one that has been built into a much larger wall or a fence; sometimes with a grill or an opening so that you can see who's outside.
7. A very good disguise, actually, by way of hiding his voice.
8. *rolls eyes*
9. You mean you DON'T?
10. Because this is a novel of "sensibility", wherein crying is a sign of a "feeling heart" (i.e. only "good" men cry).
Chapter 10, Part 2
1. Because she's a teenager in the throes of first love? :)
2. Wait and see!
3. To offer, or to suggest.
4. No - the official story is that Valeria has gone to visit Averilla at the Castello. She took Francisca with her because she knew she could leave her there and slip away to the hut.
5. A downward slope.
6. A small gate, often one that has been built into a much larger wall or a fence; sometimes with a grill or an opening so that you can see who's outside.
7. A very good disguise, actually, by way of hiding his voice.
8. *rolls eyes*
9. You mean you DON'T?
10. Because this is a novel of "sensibility", wherein crying is a sign of a "feeling heart" (i.e. only "good" men cry).
103SqueakyChu
>100 lyzard:
*rolls eyes*
LOL!
>102 lyzard:
it gets a LOT more confusing from here...
Well, I have you here to sort it all out for me. I'm enjoying this book a lot so far.
*rolls eyes*
LOL!
>102 lyzard:
it gets a LOT more confusing from here...
Well, I have you here to sort it all out for me. I'm enjoying this book a lot so far.
105SqueakyChu
I have house guests, Liz, so I have to skip tonight. I'm not yet sure about tomorrow. i'll let you know.
107SqueakyChu
Volume 2 ~
Chapter 1, Part 1
...in which Julio tells the tale of his youth
1. constantly attended by an aged female
How old would an "aged" female have been then? We know this was not Julio's mother.
2. in the habit of a friar
I'm guessing that this was a "fake" friar and only a man in friar's robes. Am I too suspicious yet?
3. within a small wicker pannier
What is a pannier?
4. be constantly worn on his bosom
I still say it's a likeness of Julio's mother.
5. the catastrophe of the fatal dart
Could you explain this to me?
6. was a man of tall stature
A tall-statured man had been interested in Paulina!
7. he believed himself to have some acquaintance with my person
I also believe he was looking for the cameo
Ends on page 132 with
might be erroneous or correct
Chapter 1, Part 1
...in which Julio tells the tale of his youth
1. constantly attended by an aged female
How old would an "aged" female have been then? We know this was not Julio's mother.
2. in the habit of a friar
I'm guessing that this was a "fake" friar and only a man in friar's robes. Am I too suspicious yet?
3. within a small wicker pannier
What is a pannier?
4. be constantly worn on his bosom
I still say it's a likeness of Julio's mother.
5. the catastrophe of the fatal dart
Could you explain this to me?
6. was a man of tall stature
A tall-statured man had been interested in Paulina!
7. he believed himself to have some acquaintance with my person
I also believe he was looking for the cameo
Ends on page 132 with
might be erroneous or correct
108lyzard
>107 SqueakyChu:
Volume 2, Chapter 1, Part 1
1. Anything from forty upwards; it's hard to tell at this time.
2. Wait and see!
(Note, though, that Julio calls him alternately a "friar" and a "monk". Those were not the same thing, but this is a mistake often made by English writers.)
3. A basket or a bag, usually one designed to be carried slung (rather than by hand) or attached to something. (He goes on to call it a basket.)
4. You know the answer to that... :)
5. It's a long and complicated story from Greek mythology, but briefly, Cephalus accidentally killed his wife, Procris, with a dart (a hunting javelin) that had been a gift from the gods and never missed.
6. This book is full of tall men acting suspiciously!
7. I think you might be right.
Volume 2, Chapter 1, Part 1
1. Anything from forty upwards; it's hard to tell at this time.
2. Wait and see!
(Note, though, that Julio calls him alternately a "friar" and a "monk". Those were not the same thing, but this is a mistake often made by English writers.)
3. A basket or a bag, usually one designed to be carried slung (rather than by hand) or attached to something. (He goes on to call it a basket.)
4. You know the answer to that... :)
5. It's a long and complicated story from Greek mythology, but briefly, Cephalus accidentally killed his wife, Procris, with a dart (a hunting javelin) that had been a gift from the gods and never missed.
6. This book is full of tall men acting suspiciously!
7. I think you might be right.
109SqueakyChu
Skipping tonight. Just got back from watching the Super Bowl (American football championship game) with family and friends. The New England Patriots won. (I didn't care either way as I'm a Baltimore Ravens fan). I'll continue with our book tomorrow.
110SqueakyChu
Volume 2, Chapter 1, Part 2
...in which Julio completes the story of his past
1. a settled melancholy (5) had taken possession of his features
Counting melancholy.
2. the distinction between the phlegmatic and the grateful mind
What does that mean?
3. What is the busy stage of life?
4. So Antonio died. I imagine this was an unexpected death. Correct?
Ends on page 136 with
his immortal being was crowned.
...in which Julio completes the story of his past
1. a settled melancholy (5) had taken possession of his features
Counting melancholy.
2. the distinction between the phlegmatic and the grateful mind
What does that mean?
3. What is the busy stage of life?
4. So Antonio died. I imagine this was an unexpected death. Correct?
Ends on page 136 with
his immortal being was crowned.
111lyzard
>110 SqueakyChu:
Volume 2, Chapter 1, Part 2
1. Well, he does have reason to be melancholy...
2. Whether you're the type of person who takes things for granted, or whether you are emotionally affected by what people do for you. A "grateful mind" is another mark of sensibility, and therefore A Good Thing.
3. The point in a young man's life (note, man) when he leaves his parents' home to make his own way in the world.
4. The point about being submissive to the will of God is that anyone can die at any time; Julio does not seem to have expected Antonio's death.
Volume 2, Chapter 1, Part 2
1. Well, he does have reason to be melancholy...
2. Whether you're the type of person who takes things for granted, or whether you are emotionally affected by what people do for you. A "grateful mind" is another mark of sensibility, and therefore A Good Thing.
3. The point in a young man's life (note, man) when he leaves his parents' home to make his own way in the world.
4. The point about being submissive to the will of God is that anyone can die at any time; Julio does not seem to have expected Antonio's death.
112SqueakyChu
Volume 2, Chapter 2, Part 1
...in which Julio agrees to meet an unidentified young woman
1. laying her hand with significant pressure on my arm as she spoke
Isn't this beyond the bounds of what a strange woman should do?
2. resolved to accept the invitation which had been given me
I think the ambassadress will take Julio to Valeria.
3. prevent your observing whither it is that I conduct you
I think the friar will take Julio to the Costello. I knew that the friar was going to say that Julio had to be blindfolded!
4. you may vaunt of your conquest
What does vaunt mean?
5. you must not repine, signor
What does repine mean?
6. the god of love whose votary you are at this moment
What does votary mean?
7. cornices of a light fretwork
What is that?
Ends on page 143 with
she darted out of the room.
...in which Julio agrees to meet an unidentified young woman
1. laying her hand with significant pressure on my arm as she spoke
Isn't this beyond the bounds of what a strange woman should do?
2. resolved to accept the invitation which had been given me
I think the ambassadress will take Julio to Valeria.
3. prevent your observing whither it is that I conduct you
I think the friar will take Julio to the Costello. I knew that the friar was going to say that Julio had to be blindfolded!
4. you may vaunt of your conquest
What does vaunt mean?
5. you must not repine, signor
What does repine mean?
6. the god of love whose votary you are at this moment
What does votary mean?
7. cornices of a light fretwork
What is that?
Ends on page 143 with
she darted out of the room.
113lyzard
>112 SqueakyChu:
Volume 2, Chapter 2, Part 1
1. It's unusual, certainly; but it gets his attention, which was the point.
2. & 3. Wait and see! (And at least you're not blindfolded, so you can see!)
4. Boast.
5. Have regrets (particularly about a chosen course of action).
6. Follower, or worshipper: "votary" is usually used in a stricter, more religious sense, but it can also mean that you're devoted or dedicated to a person or a cause. In this case Julio on his romantic adventure is called a "votary" of "the god of love", Cupid. (The friar compares Julio with his eyes bound to Cupid, who as we noted above in #80 was usually depicted as blind or blindfolded.)
7. Cornices are architectural features, decorative ledges found at the tops of walls or over windows or doorways; fretwork is fine design work usually carved into a feature or a piece of furniture. In this case the fretwork has been highlighted in white and gold.
Volume 2, Chapter 2, Part 1
1. It's unusual, certainly; but it gets his attention, which was the point.
2. & 3. Wait and see! (And at least you're not blindfolded, so you can see!)
4. Boast.
5. Have regrets (particularly about a chosen course of action).
6. Follower, or worshipper: "votary" is usually used in a stricter, more religious sense, but it can also mean that you're devoted or dedicated to a person or a cause. In this case Julio on his romantic adventure is called a "votary" of "the god of love", Cupid. (The friar compares Julio with his eyes bound to Cupid, who as we noted above in #80 was usually depicted as blind or blindfolded.)
7. Cornices are architectural features, decorative ledges found at the tops of walls or over windows or doorways; fretwork is fine design work usually carved into a feature or a piece of furniture. In this case the fretwork has been highlighted in white and gold.
114SqueakyChu
Volume 2, Chapter 2, Part 2
...in which Julio is quickly escorted out of Antonia's room
1. passed the glowing days of youth
Aha! An older woman! How old do you suppose she was? C'mon, Liz, give it a guess! :)
2. a gentle pressure of friendship
What is the difference between a gentle pressure of friendship and a gentle pressure of "something more"?
3. I believe you, signor
Not so quick, my lady! Julio has already been enamored of Valeria. What is Julio doing now?!
4. incapable of a disobliging action
What is a disobliging action?
5. Yes, he was the baby boy!
So does this ballad have any special significance to our story?
6. though immured in a solitary prison
What does immured mean?
7. So I take it that the three women were kind of imprisoned even though they were in a luxurious environment?
8. sunk fainting on the floor
Our first true faint! Antonia knows the face on the brooch!
9. Take him from my sight!
So does Antonia or does she not want Julio to return?
10. a lethargic sensation oppressed me
I was going to warn Julio not to drink that concoction!!
Ends on page 149 with
all sense of recollection fled from me.
...in which Julio is quickly escorted out of Antonia's room
1. passed the glowing days of youth
Aha! An older woman! How old do you suppose she was? C'mon, Liz, give it a guess! :)
2. a gentle pressure of friendship
What is the difference between a gentle pressure of friendship and a gentle pressure of "something more"?
3. I believe you, signor
Not so quick, my lady! Julio has already been enamored of Valeria. What is Julio doing now?!
4. incapable of a disobliging action
What is a disobliging action?
5. Yes, he was the baby boy!
So does this ballad have any special significance to our story?
6. though immured in a solitary prison
What does immured mean?
7. So I take it that the three women were kind of imprisoned even though they were in a luxurious environment?
8. sunk fainting on the floor
Our first true faint! Antonia knows the face on the brooch!
9. Take him from my sight!
So does Antonia or does she not want Julio to return?
10. a lethargic sensation oppressed me
I was going to warn Julio not to drink that concoction!!
Ends on page 149 with
all sense of recollection fled from me.
115lyzard
>114 SqueakyChu:
Volume 2, Chapter 2, Part 2
1. Maybe thirty-five or forty (as opposed to Julio's "aged" nurse, who I characterised as from forty upwards!).
2. There were different ways of shaking hands - how tightly you gripped, how long you held on - that could imply different things. This handshake seems to say "just friends" on both sides.
3. This is before Julio and Valeria met; he is telling her his early life.
4. The opposite of an obliging action. :)
Being unhelpful, or refusing to cooperate; gentlemen were not supposed to be disobliging to ladies, but to do whatever they were asked.
5. The ballad is about Cupid, the blind god of love, and we've heard plenty about him already. I would say that the point of the ballad is to remind us that Cupid can be very sneaky with his "arrows" and can make people fall in love where they shouldn't.
6. Confined, or held captive.
7. Yes, living comfortably but with their actions restricted.
8. That's a woman for you!
9. Yes and no... :)
10. Well, you're a lot smarter than he is!
Volume 2, Chapter 2, Part 2
1. Maybe thirty-five or forty (as opposed to Julio's "aged" nurse, who I characterised as from forty upwards!).
2. There were different ways of shaking hands - how tightly you gripped, how long you held on - that could imply different things. This handshake seems to say "just friends" on both sides.
3. This is before Julio and Valeria met; he is telling her his early life.
4. The opposite of an obliging action. :)
Being unhelpful, or refusing to cooperate; gentlemen were not supposed to be disobliging to ladies, but to do whatever they were asked.
5. The ballad is about Cupid, the blind god of love, and we've heard plenty about him already. I would say that the point of the ballad is to remind us that Cupid can be very sneaky with his "arrows" and can make people fall in love where they shouldn't.
6. Confined, or held captive.
7. Yes, living comfortably but with their actions restricted.
8. That's a woman for you!
9. Yes and no... :)
10. Well, you're a lot smarter than he is!
116SqueakyChu
9. Yes and no... :)
LOL! What kind of answer is that?! ;)
LOL! What kind of answer is that?! ;)
119SqueakyChu
Volume 2, Chapter 3, Part 1
...in which Julio engages in a conversation with a young stranger
1. has discovered in you her son
I knew it! I knew it! :D
2. the benignant hand of Providence
What does benignant mean?
3. On my return to Pauda, I became thoughtful and melancholy (6)
Counting melancholy.
4. What is the point of the conversation between Julio and the surgeon through the part about visiting the dead bodies?
Ends on page 161 with
from the eye of uninterested curiosity.
...in which Julio engages in a conversation with a young stranger
1. has discovered in you her son
I knew it! I knew it! :D
2. the benignant hand of Providence
What does benignant mean?
3. On my return to Pauda, I became thoughtful and melancholy (6)
Counting melancholy.
4. What is the point of the conversation between Julio and the surgeon through the part about visiting the dead bodies?
Ends on page 161 with
from the eye of uninterested curiosity.
120lyzard
>119 SqueakyChu:
1. Smarty-pants!
2. Another form of "benign" - kind and gentle.
3. Most of which are associated with Julio? Hmm...
4. Wait and see! :D
1. Smarty-pants!
2. Another form of "benign" - kind and gentle.
3. Most of which are associated with Julio? Hmm...
4. Wait and see! :D
121SqueakyChu
Skipping tonight. Visiting with family. Will continue tomorrow.
123SqueakyChu
Skipping tonight. I have a house guest. I'll try to resume tomorrow.
124SqueakyChu
Volume 2, Chapter 3, Part 2
...in which Julio kills another man
1. on which his enconiums had been so lavishly bestowed
What are enconiums?
2. on the asperser of her fame
What does asperser mean?
3. you have so falsely and vilely calumniated
What does calumniated mean?
4. What would Valeria have thought of Julio killing another man by sword? Since it was in defense of his mother's name, would that have been okay?
Ends on page 166 with
too long absent from them
...in which Julio kills another man
1. on which his enconiums had been so lavishly bestowed
What are enconiums?
2. on the asperser of her fame
What does asperser mean?
3. you have so falsely and vilely calumniated
What does calumniated mean?
4. What would Valeria have thought of Julio killing another man by sword? Since it was in defense of his mother's name, would that have been okay?
Ends on page 166 with
too long absent from them
125lyzard
>124 SqueakyChu:
Volume 2, Chapter 3, Part 2
1. Praise.
2. & 3. All these words mean more or less the same thing---an asperser is someone who slanders or otherwise damages someone's reputation, calumniate means to speak falsely and maliciously of someone.
4. Society's attitude to duelling (in novels and in reality) was strange and contradictory. Duelling itself was a throwback to "trial by combat" from the Middle Ages, when it was believed that God would intervene and the person morally in the right would be victorious. Needless to say, it didn't always work out like that. Likewise, in a duel, "right" and "wrong" had nothing to do with who was the better shot or the better swordsman.
So on one hand duelling was viewed as wicked and senseless---and on the other it was accepted as a matter of honour, and that no man could refuse a duel or let and insult pass without ruining himself. It wasn't until the middle of the 19th century, however, that the law really cracked down on duelling; there was also a shift in social attitude against it, and it basically died out (except in the military where the old honour code persisted).
Women generally were - and were allowed to be - strongly against duelling; but then their objections were usually dismissed as women being unable to understand the demands of "honour".
Novels tend to be very confused: authors often want to come out against duelling, but are afraid if they do, their hero will look like a coward. So often you find in books that the hero will be strongly against duelling, but at the same time such a deadly shot that no-one dares to challenge him to a duel.
However---there were strict rules about how and when duels were supposed to be fought, and rash, on-the-spot fights in the heat of passion were considered a violation of the code of conduct. So while Julio's defence of his mother would be generally considered a proper cause for a duel, things are not conducted as they should have been.
Volume 2, Chapter 3, Part 2
1. Praise.
2. & 3. All these words mean more or less the same thing---an asperser is someone who slanders or otherwise damages someone's reputation, calumniate means to speak falsely and maliciously of someone.
4. Society's attitude to duelling (in novels and in reality) was strange and contradictory. Duelling itself was a throwback to "trial by combat" from the Middle Ages, when it was believed that God would intervene and the person morally in the right would be victorious. Needless to say, it didn't always work out like that. Likewise, in a duel, "right" and "wrong" had nothing to do with who was the better shot or the better swordsman.
So on one hand duelling was viewed as wicked and senseless---and on the other it was accepted as a matter of honour, and that no man could refuse a duel or let and insult pass without ruining himself. It wasn't until the middle of the 19th century, however, that the law really cracked down on duelling; there was also a shift in social attitude against it, and it basically died out (except in the military where the old honour code persisted).
Women generally were - and were allowed to be - strongly against duelling; but then their objections were usually dismissed as women being unable to understand the demands of "honour".
Novels tend to be very confused: authors often want to come out against duelling, but are afraid if they do, their hero will look like a coward. So often you find in books that the hero will be strongly against duelling, but at the same time such a deadly shot that no-one dares to challenge him to a duel.
However---there were strict rules about how and when duels were supposed to be fought, and rash, on-the-spot fights in the heat of passion were considered a violation of the code of conduct. So while Julio's defence of his mother would be generally considered a proper cause for a duel, things are not conducted as they should have been.
126lyzard
Just an observation here---the fairly graphic horror of the autopsy scene is worth considering. This is something quite unusual for a book of this kind.
The "horror story" as we know it didn't really develop until the mid-19th century, and from this scene in Italian Mysteries you can see how the Gothic novel acted as a kind of progenitor to the horror genre. Of course, we saw "body horror" in The Monk---but we also saw how The Monk was not at all typical of English writing. This scene in Italian Mysteries, published in 1820, shows how this stronger, more physical kind of horror was beginning to creep into English writing.
The "horror story" as we know it didn't really develop until the mid-19th century, and from this scene in Italian Mysteries you can see how the Gothic novel acted as a kind of progenitor to the horror genre. Of course, we saw "body horror" in The Monk---but we also saw how The Monk was not at all typical of English writing. This scene in Italian Mysteries, published in 1820, shows how this stronger, more physical kind of horror was beginning to creep into English writing.
127SqueakyChu
>126 lyzard:
from this scene in Italian Mysteries you can see how the Gothic novel acted as a kind of progenitor to the horror genre
I was also surprised that a lay person could be brought into the room of an autopsy. I know that Julio entered the room before the autopsy was scheduled to be performed, but what right had the stranger to bring Julio into that room?
from this scene in Italian Mysteries you can see how the Gothic novel acted as a kind of progenitor to the horror genre
I was also surprised that a lay person could be brought into the room of an autopsy. I know that Julio entered the room before the autopsy was scheduled to be performed, but what right had the stranger to bring Julio into that room?
128lyzard
Things were very different in the 19th century - and don't forget, we're dealing with "foreigners"! :)
But generally, there was very little legal regulation of most professions including medicine until much later in the century. In this case, too, we're talking about a dissection for students, not a legal autopsy: I don't imagine even today it would be all that difficult to sneak an outsider into anatomy class.
But generally, there was very little legal regulation of most professions including medicine until much later in the century. In this case, too, we're talking about a dissection for students, not a legal autopsy: I don't imagine even today it would be all that difficult to sneak an outsider into anatomy class.
129SqueakyChu
Volume 2, Chapter 4
...in which Paulina disappears
1. Is my dear Paulina not yet found?
I don't think she wants to be found. I think that's why she sent Francisca back for a spade.
2. You could have effected no more than has already been attempted.
More likely Valeria wasn't called because she was female.
3. bursting into tears
From a sad memory. I guess this is okay.
4. I may weep, but I will never murmur.
Why does Averilla say this?
5. a melancholy (7) tale like mine
Counting melancholy.
6. my infant was nowhere to be found
We'll find her! :)
7. Valeria felt it necessary to assume the task of admonitress, and to beseech her to subdue her anguish, by the remembrance of that resignation which she owed to the will of a First Clause.
What is an admonitress? What does this sentence mean? What is a First Clause?
8. Whilst di Borges was descanting on the extraordinary information
What does descanting mean?
9. and pursue the steps of the lamented Paulina.
I'd like that.
Ends on page 176 with
and pursue the steps of the lamented Paulina.
...in which Paulina disappears
1. Is my dear Paulina not yet found?
I don't think she wants to be found. I think that's why she sent Francisca back for a spade.
2. You could have effected no more than has already been attempted.
More likely Valeria wasn't called because she was female.
3. bursting into tears
From a sad memory. I guess this is okay.
4. I may weep, but I will never murmur.
Why does Averilla say this?
5. a melancholy (7) tale like mine
Counting melancholy.
6. my infant was nowhere to be found
We'll find her! :)
7. Valeria felt it necessary to assume the task of admonitress, and to beseech her to subdue her anguish, by the remembrance of that resignation which she owed to the will of a First Clause.
What is an admonitress? What does this sentence mean? What is a First Clause?
8. Whilst di Borges was descanting on the extraordinary information
What does descanting mean?
9. and pursue the steps of the lamented Paulina.
I'd like that.
Ends on page 176 with
and pursue the steps of the lamented Paulina.
130lyzard
>129 SqueakyChu:
Volume 2, Chapter 4
1. I think you might be being a bit unjust to Paulina here. When we last saw her she had rejected a "clandestine" meeting with her "cavalier" and was expecting him to call, so I don't think she was getting rid of Francesca for that reason. :)
2. This is what Valeria gets for faking headaches all the time...
3. You're too kind!
4. This ties into (7.) - she's saying that while she will grieve, she will never complain about something that is the will of God. (To "murmur" is to complain.)
5. Okay, this tale *is* pretty melancholy...
6. :D
7. An "admonitress" is a female admonitor, someone who admonishes (I hate these twisted feminisations of things!). To admonish is to verbally correct someone for a fault. Averilla is forgetting she has just said, "I may weep, but I will never murmur", and Valeria admonishes her for it, reminding her that she must always resign herself to the will of God. Her violent grief shows that she has not resigned herself.
God = "the First Cause" = the reason everything happens.
8. Describe or discuss at length.
9. From this point in the narrative, prepare to get whiplash! :)
Volume 2, Chapter 4
1. I think you might be being a bit unjust to Paulina here. When we last saw her she had rejected a "clandestine" meeting with her "cavalier" and was expecting him to call, so I don't think she was getting rid of Francesca for that reason. :)
2. This is what Valeria gets for faking headaches all the time...
3. You're too kind!
4. This ties into (7.) - she's saying that while she will grieve, she will never complain about something that is the will of God. (To "murmur" is to complain.)
5. Okay, this tale *is* pretty melancholy...
6. :D
7. An "admonitress" is a female admonitor, someone who admonishes (I hate these twisted feminisations of things!). To admonish is to verbally correct someone for a fault. Averilla is forgetting she has just said, "I may weep, but I will never murmur", and Valeria admonishes her for it, reminding her that she must always resign herself to the will of God. Her violent grief shows that she has not resigned herself.
God = "the First Cause" = the reason everything happens.
8. Describe or discuss at length.
9. From this point in the narrative, prepare to get whiplash! :)
131SqueakyChu
prepare to get whiplash
Uh oh!
*holds on tightly to her desk*
Uh oh!
*holds on tightly to her desk*
132SqueakyChu
Volume 2, Chapter 5, Part 1
...in which
1. she sunk into a state of insensibility
Our second (full) faint!
2. a female in the vale of years
What does vale mean?
3. regain your wonted tone of spirits
What does this mean?
4. burst into tears
That's okay. She's imprisoned.
5. the bed she had determined not to enter
Why?
6. Tea is reckoned very hurtful to an empty stomach
It is? Why?
Ends on page 186 with
to have been perfectly correct
...in which
1. she sunk into a state of insensibility
Our second (full) faint!
2. a female in the vale of years
What does vale mean?
3. regain your wonted tone of spirits
What does this mean?
4. burst into tears
That's okay. She's imprisoned.
5. the bed she had determined not to enter
Why?
6. Tea is reckoned very hurtful to an empty stomach
It is? Why?
Ends on page 186 with
to have been perfectly correct
133lyzard
>132 SqueakyChu:
Volume 2, Chapter 5, Part 1
1. Justified, I think!
2. Old. :)
The expression "vale of life" means something like "past middle age".
3. To calm down and pull herself together.
4. As with (1.)
5. Because it would make things a bit too easy for anyone with nefarious designs on her. Also, it would suggest that she has accepted her situation (and maybe wants the nefarious designs).
6. I have no idea, but there were many such odd beliefs around at the time.
Volume 2, Chapter 5, Part 1
1. Justified, I think!
2. Old. :)
The expression "vale of life" means something like "past middle age".
3. To calm down and pull herself together.
4. As with (1.)
5. Because it would make things a bit too easy for anyone with nefarious designs on her. Also, it would suggest that she has accepted her situation (and maybe wants the nefarious designs).
6. I have no idea, but there were many such odd beliefs around at the time.
134SqueakyChu
Volume 2, Chapter 5, Part 2
...in which the marchese presents himself to Paulina
1. her scented hyson
What is hyson?
2. you will like him vastly for a companion
I don't think Paulina is looking for a companion at this time!
3. he's a fine young man
...and probably closer to Paulina's age.
4. These words were accompanied by many winks and grimaces
Why? Did she have tics?
5. he appeared to have added as many lustres to his age
What are lustres? Why did he age so fast? Was it that Paulina had not seen him close up? Was it that the marchese was ill, in trouble, or in despair?
6. excess of love
That's no excuse for a kidnapping!
7. the first principle by which true love is swayed, is delicacy of action toward the individual who has inspired the sentiment
A true and sensible (in both meanings of this word) statement by Paulina!
8. This hand is yet my own
Leave her alone, marchese!!
9. only consent to become my bride
Yeah. Right.
10. I swear I never beheld you until that day of which I have just spoken
Perhaps the marchese has a twin brother?
11. What does the marchese intend to do as this chapter concludes? I'm not sure I understand.
Ends on page 90 with
he quitted the apartment.
...in which the marchese presents himself to Paulina
1. her scented hyson
What is hyson?
2. you will like him vastly for a companion
I don't think Paulina is looking for a companion at this time!
3. he's a fine young man
...and probably closer to Paulina's age.
4. These words were accompanied by many winks and grimaces
Why? Did she have tics?
5. he appeared to have added as many lustres to his age
What are lustres? Why did he age so fast? Was it that Paulina had not seen him close up? Was it that the marchese was ill, in trouble, or in despair?
6. excess of love
That's no excuse for a kidnapping!
7. the first principle by which true love is swayed, is delicacy of action toward the individual who has inspired the sentiment
A true and sensible (in both meanings of this word) statement by Paulina!
8. This hand is yet my own
Leave her alone, marchese!!
9. only consent to become my bride
Yeah. Right.
10. I swear I never beheld you until that day of which I have just spoken
Perhaps the marchese has a twin brother?
11. What does the marchese intend to do as this chapter concludes? I'm not sure I understand.
Ends on page 90 with
he quitted the apartment.
135lyzard
>134 SqueakyChu:
Volume 2, Chapter 5, Part 2
1. Green tea.
2. Well, I don't know...it might depend upon the companion... :)
3. See above.
4. No, it's her version of "Nudge, nudge, wink, wink". She's trying to be mysterious to imply to Paulina how important a person she is and how many secrets she knows.
5. It's a loose use of a French term, "des lustres", meaning a long period of time: it is two years since Paulina saw him but he seems to have aged much more than that.
6. But...but...a MAN wants something! Surely that's enough!?
7. & 8. & 9. "The feeling you describe," rejoined Paulina, "is a madman's passion, and should be fettered by the same coercion that a madman's other inclinations are restrained by." :D
10. Wait and see!
11. Briefly, he's going to put his propositions in writing.
Volume 2, Chapter 5, Part 2
1. Green tea.
2. Well, I don't know...it might depend upon the companion... :)
3. See above.
4. No, it's her version of "Nudge, nudge, wink, wink". She's trying to be mysterious to imply to Paulina how important a person she is and how many secrets she knows.
5. It's a loose use of a French term, "des lustres", meaning a long period of time: it is two years since Paulina saw him but he seems to have aged much more than that.
6. But...but...a MAN wants something! Surely that's enough!?
7. & 8. & 9. "The feeling you describe," rejoined Paulina, "is a madman's passion, and should be fettered by the same coercion that a madman's other inclinations are restrained by." :D
10. Wait and see!
11. Briefly, he's going to put his propositions in writing.
136SqueakyChu
Skipping tonight. I'm too tired.
138SqueakyChu
Er, yeah.
140SqueakyChu
Volume 2, Chapter 6, Part 1
...in which Paula meets Vincentio
1.to enumerate the advantages of rank and wealth
"Money can't buy you love" ...so sang the Beatles.
2. after many other sapient remarks
What does sapient mean?
3. you have a friend within these walls
the son of the marchese?
4. Why did Paulina think her friend was Lipardo?
5. Is the marchese saying that he will not restore Paulina to her friends if she does not agree to marry him?
6. This day passed...unchequered
What does unchequered mean?
7. she flew to the window, and descried
What does descried mean?
8. I am the nephew of the marches di Valdetti
I wasn't so far from wrong! Tee hee!!
9. Means must be devised to thwart his intentions
So now it's up to Vincentio to do this, of course!
10. towards your enlargement
What does enlargement mean?
11. a heart which adores you like mine will not be inactive in your cause
You see?
Ends on page 197 with
she clasped her hands in agony as she spoke.
...in which Paula meets Vincentio
1.to enumerate the advantages of rank and wealth
"Money can't buy you love" ...so sang the Beatles.
2. after many other sapient remarks
What does sapient mean?
3. you have a friend within these walls
the son of the marchese?
4. Why did Paulina think her friend was Lipardo?
5. Is the marchese saying that he will not restore Paulina to her friends if she does not agree to marry him?
6. This day passed...unchequered
What does unchequered mean?
7. she flew to the window, and descried
What does descried mean?
8. I am the nephew of the marches di Valdetti
I wasn't so far from wrong! Tee hee!!
9. Means must be devised to thwart his intentions
So now it's up to Vincentio to do this, of course!
10. towards your enlargement
What does enlargement mean?
11. a heart which adores you like mine will not be inactive in your cause
You see?
Ends on page 197 with
she clasped her hands in agony as she spoke.
141lyzard
>140 SqueakyChu:
Volume 2, Chapter 6, Part 1
1. I don't think strictly it's "love" he's trying to buy.
2. Wise, or acute.
3. Because he has "an honest face" (in books like this you can usually tell what someone's like just by looking) and because she thinks she's picked up some ambiguities in his speech that mean he has a message to convey to her. And besides, as far she knows there's no-one else it could be. :)
4. We already know that the Marchese has no son...
5. Yes - she will only see her family again as his wife.
6. Smooth, without any ups and downs.
7. Caught sight of.
8. Smarty. :)
9. Possibly among other people; Paulina wasn't necessarily wrong about Lipardo.
10. Release from imprisonment.
11. Yeah, yeah, yeah*... :D
(*Also the Beatles)
Volume 2, Chapter 6, Part 1
1. I don't think strictly it's "love" he's trying to buy.
2. Wise, or acute.
3. Because he has "an honest face" (in books like this you can usually tell what someone's like just by looking) and because she thinks she's picked up some ambiguities in his speech that mean he has a message to convey to her. And besides, as far she knows there's no-one else it could be. :)
4. We already know that the Marchese has no son...
5. Yes - she will only see her family again as his wife.
6. Smooth, without any ups and downs.
7. Caught sight of.
8. Smarty. :)
9. Possibly among other people; Paulina wasn't necessarily wrong about Lipardo.
10. Release from imprisonment.
11. Yeah, yeah, yeah*... :D
(*Also the Beatles)
142SqueakyChu
Skipping tonight. I have a house guest. I'll continue tomorrow.
143SqueakyChu
Volume 2, Chapter 6, Part 2
...in which Paulina give the marchese her answer
1. or to die in your preservation
Whoa! Now that is love!!
2. the tear of gratitude started into the eye of Paulina
Well deserved by Vincentio.
3. the deputed instrument of that benignant Power
What does deputed mean? What does benignant mean?
4. She entered her bed
So now she enters it!
5. a sealed paper
I also think Lipardo put that sealed paper there.
6. highly gratified by his munificence
What does munificence mean?
7. diamonds of the first water
What kind of diamonds are those?
8. appeared struggling to subdue an emotion of a passionate nature
The marchese is used to getting his own way. I imagine him to have anger management issues.
9. a mingled look of love and rage
The marchese is "losing it".
Ends on page with 201
...the returning steps of her persecutor.
...in which Paulina give the marchese her answer
1. or to die in your preservation
Whoa! Now that is love!!
2. the tear of gratitude started into the eye of Paulina
Well deserved by Vincentio.
3. the deputed instrument of that benignant Power
What does deputed mean? What does benignant mean?
4. She entered her bed
So now she enters it!
5. a sealed paper
I also think Lipardo put that sealed paper there.
6. highly gratified by his munificence
What does munificence mean?
7. diamonds of the first water
What kind of diamonds are those?
8. appeared struggling to subdue an emotion of a passionate nature
The marchese is used to getting his own way. I imagine him to have anger management issues.
9. a mingled look of love and rage
The marchese is "losing it".
Ends on page with 201
...the returning steps of her persecutor.
144lyzard
>143 SqueakyChu:
Volume 2, Chapter 6, Part 2
1. & 2. Made for each other! :)
3. Nominated, chosen. "Benignant" is an unnecessary extension of "benign", meaning kind, gentle, generous. (In this case they're saying that God has kindly intervened by sending Vincentio.)
4. She's feeling a bit more secure these days.
5. Wait and see...
6. Generosity (particularly in monetary matters).
7. The best - one way of grading diamonds is by their lack of impurity; the most pure are the most "water-like" or colourless.
8. & 9. I think you might be right about that!
Volume 2, Chapter 6, Part 2
1. & 2. Made for each other! :)
3. Nominated, chosen. "Benignant" is an unnecessary extension of "benign", meaning kind, gentle, generous. (In this case they're saying that God has kindly intervened by sending Vincentio.)
4. She's feeling a bit more secure these days.
5. Wait and see...
6. Generosity (particularly in monetary matters).
7. The best - one way of grading diamonds is by their lack of impurity; the most pure are the most "water-like" or colourless.
8. & 9. I think you might be right about that!
145SqueakyChu
Volume 2, Chapter 6, Part 3
...in which Ricarda reveals what she knows
1. What would you have forsooth?
What does forsooth mean?
2. I wonder if Ricarda is so bitchy and short with Paulina now because the marchese has taken out some of his anger about Paulina on her?
3. for the sake of St. Ursula
Why for the sake of St. Ursula?
4. and the eleven thousand blessed virgins
To what does this refer?
5. ...am I not serving you all that I am able
No, you're not! You're just defending the marchese!!
6. it's safe with Ricarda
I doubt it!
7. I don't much care for Ricarda's plan concerning the order in which Paulina must marry those two related men!
8. if any thing worse were to befall you
What did Ricarda have in mind?
Ends on page 204 with
she again retired
...in which Ricarda reveals what she knows
1. What would you have forsooth?
What does forsooth mean?
2. I wonder if Ricarda is so bitchy and short with Paulina now because the marchese has taken out some of his anger about Paulina on her?
3. for the sake of St. Ursula
Why for the sake of St. Ursula?
4. and the eleven thousand blessed virgins
To what does this refer?
5. ...am I not serving you all that I am able
No, you're not! You're just defending the marchese!!
6. it's safe with Ricarda
I doubt it!
7. I don't much care for Ricarda's plan concerning the order in which Paulina must marry those two related men!
8. if any thing worse were to befall you
What did Ricarda have in mind?
Ends on page 204 with
she again retired
146lyzard
Sorry! - work crisis followed by unexpected family stuff.
Where were we...
Volume 2, Chapter 6, Part 3
1. It's an archaic expression meaning "in fact" or "in truth".
2. Yes, very likely. I also think Ricarda was expecting to be rewarded for her role in persuading Paulina into marriage and now expects to be disappointed.
3. & 4. According to legend, Ursula, the daughter of an ancient Briton king, and her 11,000 (!?) attendants were massacred at Cologne while on a pilgrimage. Ursula was later made a saint and her attendants became known as "the blessed virgins". It's not altogether clear why Ricarda should be calling on them, although Ursula is a patron saint of orphans, so perhaps she's reminding Paulina of how vulnerable she is. Or maybe she's suggesting that Paulina could meet the same fate as the martyred virgins.
5. She undoubtedly thinks she *is* helping by pushing Paulina into marrying money and a title.
6. It probably is safe, but for reasons that aren't clear just yet...
7. But she can't have the money and the title without marrying the Marchese first! :)
8. She's suggesting that if Paulina keeps refusing to marry the Marchese, he will probably lose his temper and rape her, and then no-one will marry her.
Where were we...
Volume 2, Chapter 6, Part 3
1. It's an archaic expression meaning "in fact" or "in truth".
2. Yes, very likely. I also think Ricarda was expecting to be rewarded for her role in persuading Paulina into marriage and now expects to be disappointed.
3. & 4. According to legend, Ursula, the daughter of an ancient Briton king, and her 11,000 (!?) attendants were massacred at Cologne while on a pilgrimage. Ursula was later made a saint and her attendants became known as "the blessed virgins". It's not altogether clear why Ricarda should be calling on them, although Ursula is a patron saint of orphans, so perhaps she's reminding Paulina of how vulnerable she is. Or maybe she's suggesting that Paulina could meet the same fate as the martyred virgins.
5. She undoubtedly thinks she *is* helping by pushing Paulina into marrying money and a title.
6. It probably is safe, but for reasons that aren't clear just yet...
7. But she can't have the money and the title without marrying the Marchese first! :)
8. She's suggesting that if Paulina keeps refusing to marry the Marchese, he will probably lose his temper and rape her, and then no-one will marry her.
147SqueakyChu
Volume 2, Chapter 7, Part 1
...in which Paulina is moved to a different room
1. does not any longer permit you the use of these apartments
So now the marchese is going to punish Paulina by putting her in a harsher environment.
2. with difficulty repressed her tears
She could repress them? In a gothic novel?!
3. you will reflect on the advantages which you have hitherto refused to accept
She will not! She will further reflect upon her imprisonment.
4. you will be allowed one week to deliberate on your fate
After that, she will be put in even stricter, harsher confines most likely!
5. inquired the weeping Paulina
Now she has reason to weep.
6. this moving pannel
A secret passage! I was wondering when one would show up! :)
7. I have motives for my conduct which amply reward me
Pray, do tell us what they are!
8. Could you take a little drop of Nanz brandy?
No! Don't take it!!
Ends on page 213 with
to keep the cramp out of my stomach
...in which Paulina is moved to a different room
1. does not any longer permit you the use of these apartments
So now the marchese is going to punish Paulina by putting her in a harsher environment.
2. with difficulty repressed her tears
She could repress them? In a gothic novel?!
3. you will reflect on the advantages which you have hitherto refused to accept
She will not! She will further reflect upon her imprisonment.
4. you will be allowed one week to deliberate on your fate
After that, she will be put in even stricter, harsher confines most likely!
5. inquired the weeping Paulina
Now she has reason to weep.
6. this moving pannel
A secret passage! I was wondering when one would show up! :)
7. I have motives for my conduct which amply reward me
Pray, do tell us what they are!
8. Could you take a little drop of Nanz brandy?
No! Don't take it!!
Ends on page 213 with
to keep the cramp out of my stomach
148lyzard
>147 SqueakyChu:
Volume 2, Chapter 7, Part 1
2. Well...
5. ...for a while, anyway.
6. You can't have a secret panel before someone's been imprisoned!
7. You'll find out...
8. Nice girls don't drink brandy. :)
Volume 2, Chapter 7, Part 1
2. Well...
5. ...for a while, anyway.
6. You can't have a secret panel before someone's been imprisoned!
7. You'll find out...
8. Nice girls don't drink brandy. :)
149SqueakyChu
>148 lyzard:
Volume 2, Chapter 7, Part 1
6. You can't have a secret panel before someone's been imprisoned!
LOL!
Volume 2, Chapter 7, Part 1
6. You can't have a secret panel before someone's been imprisoned!
LOL!
150SqueakyChu
Volume 2, Chapter 7, Part 2
...in which Ricarda sees Paulina's scars
1. Paulina anxiously awaited the sequel of her harangue
What does harangue mean?
2. some considerable losses at play
At gambling?
3. weepingly pronounced Paulina
Now is not the time to cry, Paulina. Listen to Ricarda's story!
4. What scar is that upon your arm
I don't know, but I do know that the scar is most likely significant. :)
5. I have such a thing to tell you
She knows more of Paulina's history than Paulina does...Of that I am sure!
Ends on page 218 with
bring Ricarda into her presence.
...in which Ricarda sees Paulina's scars
1. Paulina anxiously awaited the sequel of her harangue
What does harangue mean?
2. some considerable losses at play
At gambling?
3. weepingly pronounced Paulina
Now is not the time to cry, Paulina. Listen to Ricarda's story!
4. What scar is that upon your arm
I don't know, but I do know that the scar is most likely significant. :)
5. I have such a thing to tell you
She knows more of Paulina's history than Paulina does...Of that I am sure!
Ends on page 218 with
bring Ricarda into her presence.
151lyzard
>150 SqueakyChu:
Volume 2, Chapter 7, Part 2
1. A lecture or speech, meant either to persuade someone or to tell them off.
2. Yes.
3. Well, she's weeping in response, so I guess she's still listening...
4. Most likely. :)
5. Yes!...so naturally the narrative shifts away from Paulina and Ricarda and leaves us all in suspense... :D
Volume 2, Chapter 7, Part 2
1. A lecture or speech, meant either to persuade someone or to tell them off.
2. Yes.
3. Well, she's weeping in response, so I guess she's still listening...
4. Most likely. :)
5. Yes!...so naturally the narrative shifts away from Paulina and Ricarda and leaves us all in suspense... :D
152SqueakyChu
>151 lyzard:
5. ...so naturally the narrative shifts away from Paulina and Ricarda and leaves us all in suspense...
Haha!
5. ...so naturally the narrative shifts away from Paulina and Ricarda and leaves us all in suspense...
Haha!
153SqueakyChu
Skipping tonight. Working on taxes. :(
155souloftherose
>153 SqueakyChu: & >154 lyzard: Well, I've never been locked in a dungeon and threatened by a psychotic Marchese but I do work in tax and I think the latter is the better option of the two :-) Could be an interesting point to consider when I'm having a bad day at work though (perhaps not out loud)!
156SqueakyChu
>155 souloftherose: I'll take the dungeon, Heather!
157SqueakyChu
Volume 2, Chapter 8
... in which Urbino reveals who slew his son
1. We must now return for a while to the signor Urbino Di Cavetti
Oops! I forgot about him! ;)
2. the sequel of my melancholy (8) tale
Counting melancholy.
3. Julio clasped her, for security, to his bosom.
Yeah. Right. For security.
4. So Julio slew Valeria's brother?
5. sunk senseless upon his breast
I'd faint, too, at such a revelation!
Ends on page 228 with
upon his breast
... in which Urbino reveals who slew his son
1. We must now return for a while to the signor Urbino Di Cavetti
Oops! I forgot about him! ;)
2. the sequel of my melancholy (8) tale
Counting melancholy.
3. Julio clasped her, for security, to his bosom.
Yeah. Right. For security.
4. So Julio slew Valeria's brother?
5. sunk senseless upon his breast
I'd faint, too, at such a revelation!
Ends on page 228 with
upon his breast
158lyzard
>157 SqueakyChu:
Volume 2, Chapter 8
So Julio slew Valeria's brother?
'Fraid so.
I think melancholy fainting is entirely in order...
Volume 2, Chapter 8
So Julio slew Valeria's brother?
'Fraid so.
I think melancholy fainting is entirely in order...
159SqueakyChu
Skipping tonight. I have a house guest.
160SqueakyChu
Volume 2, Chapter 9
...in which Calvino returns with one of Paulina's slippers
1. the tears trickled down his furrowed cheeks
Rightly so.
2. her own tears almost stifled her utterance
Again, rightly so.
3. Again the tears started in his eyes
More tears...
Ends on page 237 with
present station for life
...in which Calvino returns with one of Paulina's slippers
1. the tears trickled down his furrowed cheeks
Rightly so.
2. her own tears almost stifled her utterance
Again, rightly so.
3. Again the tears started in his eyes
More tears...
Ends on page 237 with
present station for life
161lyzard
>160 SqueakyChu:
Volume 2, Chapter 9
1. & 2. & 3. I don't think you need my help understanding any of that! :D
Volume 2, Chapter 9
1. & 2. & 3. I don't think you need my help understanding any of that! :D
163SqueakyChu
Skipping tonight. Too tired.
164SqueakyChu
Volume 2, Chapter 10
...in which Vincentio's true identity is revealed
1. Your son
Why is Vincentio pretending to be the nephew of the marchese? Does the marchese really have a nephew? Haha! Another example of a person who is not who he pretends to be!
2. with a smile of inward exultation
Ricarda must be very proud to have her son so admired by Paulina.
3. You must give Vincentio your hand tomorrow night
Such a quick turnabout from Ricarda!
4. Is it not better to marry the man whom you can love hastily
No! One must take the time to truly know whom one is marrying!!
5. you will have the ability of becoming the distributor of joy
I can't wait to see what all this means. Obviously it has something to do with Paulina's scars and her own true identity.
6. almost wept
Be strong, Paulina!
7. uttering the most dreadful imprecations
What are imprecations?
8. he sunk senseless into the arms of the attendants
It almost seems as if more men are fainting in this novel than women!
9. How did the marchese know what was transpiring with Paulina and Vincentio?
10. Did the wedding between Paulina and Vincentio take place or not ?
Ends on page 244 with
he sunk senseless into the arms of the attendants.
~~~End of Volume 2~~~
...in which Vincentio's true identity is revealed
1. Your son
Why is Vincentio pretending to be the nephew of the marchese? Does the marchese really have a nephew? Haha! Another example of a person who is not who he pretends to be!
2. with a smile of inward exultation
Ricarda must be very proud to have her son so admired by Paulina.
3. You must give Vincentio your hand tomorrow night
Such a quick turnabout from Ricarda!
4. Is it not better to marry the man whom you can love hastily
No! One must take the time to truly know whom one is marrying!!
5. you will have the ability of becoming the distributor of joy
I can't wait to see what all this means. Obviously it has something to do with Paulina's scars and her own true identity.
6. almost wept
Be strong, Paulina!
7. uttering the most dreadful imprecations
What are imprecations?
8. he sunk senseless into the arms of the attendants
It almost seems as if more men are fainting in this novel than women!
9. How did the marchese know what was transpiring with Paulina and Vincentio?
10. Did the wedding between Paulina and Vincentio take place or not ?
Ends on page 244 with
he sunk senseless into the arms of the attendants.
~~~End of Volume 2~~~
165lyzard
>164 SqueakyChu:
Volume 2, Chapter 10
1. I can only say...wait and see. :)
2. It's a bit more complicated than that. (Isn't it always!?)
3. Circumstances alter cases, as they say!
4. To be fair, Ricarda is urging her choose between hastily marrying someone she does care for, or hesitating and perhaps falling a victim to the Marchese.
5. Read on, and all will be revealed...eventually...
6. In novels of "sensibility" like this, rushing into marriage was a mark of indelicacy and supposed to be very shocking.
7. Curses.
8. Another mark of the novel of sensibility! :)
9. We don't know yet.
10. Yes: Their hands were clasped in each other, and a few moments rendered their fates indissoluble. Vincentio saluted his bride with a glowing kiss of exultation...
...though I'm not quite sure what a "glowing kiss" is??
~~~End of Volume 2~~~
Well done!!
Volume 2, Chapter 10
1. I can only say...wait and see. :)
2. It's a bit more complicated than that. (Isn't it always!?)
3. Circumstances alter cases, as they say!
4. To be fair, Ricarda is urging her choose between hastily marrying someone she does care for, or hesitating and perhaps falling a victim to the Marchese.
5. Read on, and all will be revealed...eventually...
6. In novels of "sensibility" like this, rushing into marriage was a mark of indelicacy and supposed to be very shocking.
7. Curses.
8. Another mark of the novel of sensibility! :)
9. We don't know yet.
10. Yes: Their hands were clasped in each other, and a few moments rendered their fates indissoluble. Vincentio saluted his bride with a glowing kiss of exultation...
...though I'm not quite sure what a "glowing kiss" is??
~~~End of Volume 2~~~
Well done!!
166SqueakyChu
I still think this is a quite fun novel.
Ever onward...
Ever onward...
167SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 1, Part 1
...in which Urbino starts to read Julio's letter
1. to vegetate uninterrupted and unknown
Forever?!
2. I applied myself to the transmitting of my eventful life to paper
Why?
3. the heart which she transferred to him should never be bestowed to another
But is that fair?
4. by what means could Julio escape
There must be a twin so this story can have a happy outcome!
5. I extracted the bullets from the tubes
Why did she do this?
6. and burst into tears
Here we go!
7. tears of mingled gratitude and admiration
A group cry!
Ends on page 254 with
from their eyes.
...in which Urbino starts to read Julio's letter
1. to vegetate uninterrupted and unknown
Forever?!
2. I applied myself to the transmitting of my eventful life to paper
Why?
3. the heart which she transferred to him should never be bestowed to another
But is that fair?
4. by what means could Julio escape
There must be a twin so this story can have a happy outcome!
5. I extracted the bullets from the tubes
Why did she do this?
6. and burst into tears
Here we go!
7. tears of mingled gratitude and admiration
A group cry!
Ends on page 254 with
from their eyes.
168lyzard
>167 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 1, Part 1
Hmm... Running an eye over your questions, it seems the answer to nearly all of them is, "Because we're reading a sentimental novel!" :D
1. Self-exile as punishment; he feels he has made himself a pariah. This was the thing about duelling: even if you "won", you then had to live with it.
Of course, circumstances intervene...
2. Because that's what characters in sentimental novels do!
Probably so there is a record of all the mysteries in his life, although later it becomes about explaining the whole story to Valeria and Urbino, including a lot of the "haunted castle" business.
3. No. :)
But---people very rarely love twice in sentimental novels. If something goes wrong they're more likely to die of a broken heart and/or enter a convent / monastery. Just getting over it shows a lack of "sensibility". So we have to put it in that context.
4. Wait and see!
5. Meaning she unloaded her father's pistols. This is how Julio escapes being shot, and why the woodwork wasn't damaged.
6. & 7. Oh, well. They're both under stress...
Volume 3, Chapter 1, Part 1
Hmm... Running an eye over your questions, it seems the answer to nearly all of them is, "Because we're reading a sentimental novel!" :D
1. Self-exile as punishment; he feels he has made himself a pariah. This was the thing about duelling: even if you "won", you then had to live with it.
Of course, circumstances intervene...
2. Because that's what characters in sentimental novels do!
Probably so there is a record of all the mysteries in his life, although later it becomes about explaining the whole story to Valeria and Urbino, including a lot of the "haunted castle" business.
3. No. :)
But---people very rarely love twice in sentimental novels. If something goes wrong they're more likely to die of a broken heart and/or enter a convent / monastery. Just getting over it shows a lack of "sensibility". So we have to put it in that context.
4. Wait and see!
5. Meaning she unloaded her father's pistols. This is how Julio escapes being shot, and why the woodwork wasn't damaged.
6. & 7. Oh, well. They're both under stress...
169SqueakyChu
>168 lyzard:
5. Meaning she unloaded her father's pistols. This is how Julio escapes being shot, and why the woodwork wasn't damaged
So when did she do this? She was used to handling her father's gun?
5. Meaning she unloaded her father's pistols. This is how Julio escapes being shot, and why the woodwork wasn't damaged
So when did she do this? She was used to handling her father's gun?
170lyzard
On the night in question, when the plan of watching the closet and shooting anything that moved was mooted, Valeria tried but failed to talk her father out of it. She then excused herself and left the room, supposedly to move a few things from her bedroom (next to the closet) to another room.
As to when she learned to handle her father's pistols, good question!
As to when she learned to handle her father's pistols, good question!
171SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 1, Part 2
...in which Urbino describes how Paula became part of his family
1. uttered a faint shriek, and sunk back upon the couch
Great drama!
Ends on page 261 with
retired to her own chamber
...in which Urbino describes how Paula became part of his family
1. uttered a faint shriek, and sunk back upon the couch
Great drama!
Ends on page 261 with
retired to her own chamber
173SqueakyChu
Skipping tonight. Exhausted from babysitting.
174SqueakyChu
Skipping tonight. Will be engaged with other activities until late tonight.
175SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 2, Part 1
...in which Jeronymo offers shelter in the Castello to poor wayfarers
1. the market had returned her upon her own hands
as unsaleable
Does this mean she'll never find someone who wants to marry her?
2. into that animation which a corpse may be supposed capable of receiving
Oh, my! What a description! :)
3. repented that I did not join the army
In what capacities did a woman join the Army in Italy at that time?
4. These are the ordinary expressions of men
Haha! You're right, Valeria.
5. a wounded soldier...a delicate and sickly-looking female...an infant...and...another child
Hmmm? I wonder who, in truth, these four new characters could be?!
6. Would a cousin of Francisca's father be an acceptable mate...or is the relationship too close...or might Bernardo be too old?
7. that fretfulness of disposition which not unfrequently assails the unmarried of the softer sex
What a sexist phrase!
8. Jeronymo burst into a fresh flood of tears
The men are still crying!!
9. a disfigured man...weeping bitterly
I'm guessing this man has a good reason to cry.
10. How many people are there with Jeronymo? Five? Two men, the woman, and the two children? If not, who and where is the ould jontlemon, presumably the father of the crippled former soldier?
11. What is a "brace" of sons?
Ends on page 272 with
the one of them.
...in which Jeronymo offers shelter in the Castello to poor wayfarers
1. the market had returned her upon her own hands
as unsaleable
Does this mean she'll never find someone who wants to marry her?
2. into that animation which a corpse may be supposed capable of receiving
Oh, my! What a description! :)
3. repented that I did not join the army
In what capacities did a woman join the Army in Italy at that time?
4. These are the ordinary expressions of men
Haha! You're right, Valeria.
5. a wounded soldier...a delicate and sickly-looking female...an infant...and...another child
Hmmm? I wonder who, in truth, these four new characters could be?!
6. Would a cousin of Francisca's father be an acceptable mate...or is the relationship too close...or might Bernardo be too old?
7. that fretfulness of disposition which not unfrequently assails the unmarried of the softer sex
What a sexist phrase!
8. Jeronymo burst into a fresh flood of tears
The men are still crying!!
9. a disfigured man...weeping bitterly
I'm guessing this man has a good reason to cry.
10. How many people are there with Jeronymo? Five? Two men, the woman, and the two children? If not, who and where is the ould jontlemon, presumably the father of the crippled former soldier?
11. What is a "brace" of sons?
Ends on page 272 with
the one of them.
176lyzard
Making up for lost time?? :)
>175 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 2, Part 1
1. Yes. A common expression at this time was "the marriage mart", to describe how girls were effectively put on display in the hope of attracting a husband, like goods in a shop window. All sorts of comparisons were made between marriage and commercial transactions. In this case Francisca has tried and failed to catch a husband---she has "outstood her market", meaning she aimed too high.
2. Makeup at this time was still a bad thing---particularly when a woman was trying to disguise her true age.
3. If she married a soldier. A lot of women at this time "followed the drum", that is, travelled with (or behind) their husband's regiment, and so "joined the army". (War was conducted very differently then!) Francisca had the chance to marry a soldier but turned him down, now she's sorry.
4. Yes, she is. :)
5. You know my answer to that...
6. Bernardo's the same age as Francisca - I don't know if that makes him "too old". Sometimes in Catholic countries, if there was a family relationship between a man and woman they would have to apply to the Pope for a dispensation, that is, permission to marry, but if Bernardo is the cousin of Francisca's father, their connection is probably sufficiently distant for it not to be a problem.
7. That's also "an ordinary expression of men". {*eye-roll*}
8. "Sensibility", my dear...!
9. I would say so, yes.
10. Yes, two men, a woman, and two children. The ould gentleman is Jeronymo himself. One of the two men is his son.
11. Two - a brace is a pair of something, or two of a kind. Jeronymo had two sons who many years ago ran away to join the army, and he hasn't seen them since.
>175 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 2, Part 1
1. Yes. A common expression at this time was "the marriage mart", to describe how girls were effectively put on display in the hope of attracting a husband, like goods in a shop window. All sorts of comparisons were made between marriage and commercial transactions. In this case Francisca has tried and failed to catch a husband---she has "outstood her market", meaning she aimed too high.
2. Makeup at this time was still a bad thing---particularly when a woman was trying to disguise her true age.
3. If she married a soldier. A lot of women at this time "followed the drum", that is, travelled with (or behind) their husband's regiment, and so "joined the army". (War was conducted very differently then!) Francisca had the chance to marry a soldier but turned him down, now she's sorry.
4. Yes, she is. :)
5. You know my answer to that...
6. Bernardo's the same age as Francisca - I don't know if that makes him "too old". Sometimes in Catholic countries, if there was a family relationship between a man and woman they would have to apply to the Pope for a dispensation, that is, permission to marry, but if Bernardo is the cousin of Francisca's father, their connection is probably sufficiently distant for it not to be a problem.
7. That's also "an ordinary expression of men". {*eye-roll*}
8. "Sensibility", my dear...!
9. I would say so, yes.
10. Yes, two men, a woman, and two children. The ould gentleman is Jeronymo himself. One of the two men is his son.
11. Two - a brace is a pair of something, or two of a kind. Jeronymo had two sons who many years ago ran away to join the army, and he hasn't seen them since.
177SqueakyChu
>176 lyzard:
*confused*
10. So the crippled man is Jeronymo's son? And the woman, Jeronymo's daughter-in-law, and the kids, Jeronymo's grandchildren?
*confused*
10. So the crippled man is Jeronymo's son? And the woman, Jeronymo's daughter-in-law, and the kids, Jeronymo's grandchildren?
178lyzard
It all becomes clear in the next passage. Briefly, the less injured of the solders is Jeronymo's younger son, the woman is the widow of Jeronymo's other son, who is dead, and the kids are Jeronymo's grandchildren.
We find out who the crippled soldier is too... :)
We find out who the crippled soldier is too... :)
179SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 2, Part 2
...in which the disfigured soldier is identified as Bernardo
1. leaving the girl of my heart behind
Francisca, maybe?
2. her temper was not one of the best either
Francisca, definitely!
3. the dregs of an empty poteen
What is a "poteen"?
4. sunk, with an hysteric shriek, upon the floor
More melodrama!
5. to make him a good nurse
Uh. That's a reason to marry?
6. Francisca had quite a change of heart!
Ends on page 281 with
before the reader.
...in which the disfigured soldier is identified as Bernardo
1. leaving the girl of my heart behind
Francisca, maybe?
2. her temper was not one of the best either
Francisca, definitely!
3. the dregs of an empty poteen
What is a "poteen"?
4. sunk, with an hysteric shriek, upon the floor
More melodrama!
5. to make him a good nurse
Uh. That's a reason to marry?
6. Francisca had quite a change of heart!
Ends on page 281 with
before the reader.
180lyzard
>179 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 2, Part 2
1. :)
2. :D
3. "Poteen" was a potent, high-alcohol spirit usually made from potatoes (like vodka); "poteen" was also the word for the small home stills in which the spirits were produced, which would be what Terence is referring to.
(The production of poteen was illegal in Ireland until the 1990s, but of course that didn't stop anyone...)
4. Ha, yes!
5. A reason, yes; not necessarily a good one.
(Although of course lots of people say they have children specifically so, "There'll be someone to look after us." I suppose this is thinking along the same lines.)
Terence is suggesting that Francisca is too old to be thinking of love.
6. (?) Bernardo's good fortune, I think!
Volume 3, Chapter 2, Part 2
1. :)
2. :D
3. "Poteen" was a potent, high-alcohol spirit usually made from potatoes (like vodka); "poteen" was also the word for the small home stills in which the spirits were produced, which would be what Terence is referring to.
(The production of poteen was illegal in Ireland until the 1990s, but of course that didn't stop anyone...)
4. Ha, yes!
5. A reason, yes; not necessarily a good one.
(Although of course lots of people say they have children specifically so, "There'll be someone to look after us." I suppose this is thinking along the same lines.)
Terence is suggesting that Francisca is too old to be thinking of love.
6. (?) Bernardo's good fortune, I think!
181SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 3, Part 1
...in which Bianca takes in an ill wayfarer
1. the signor's melancholy (9) appearance
Counting melancholy.
2. with tolerable perspicuity
What is perspicuity?
3. an acclivity of green sward
What is that?!
4. with a look of infinite sagacity
What is sagacity?
5. let him free the wretched Julio from an insupportable existence
So di Borges knows Julio and wants to help him?
6. but Julio was nowhere to be seen
*confused*
What is going on here? A sick Julio has fled from Bianca's home?
Ends on page 286 with
nowhere to be seen
...in which Bianca takes in an ill wayfarer
1. the signor's melancholy (9) appearance
Counting melancholy.
2. with tolerable perspicuity
What is perspicuity?
3. an acclivity of green sward
What is that?!
4. with a look of infinite sagacity
What is sagacity?
5. let him free the wretched Julio from an insupportable existence
So di Borges knows Julio and wants to help him?
6. but Julio was nowhere to be seen
*confused*
What is going on here? A sick Julio has fled from Bianca's home?
Ends on page 286 with
nowhere to be seen
182lyzard
>181 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 3, Part 1
1. Most of the "melancholy-s" have applied to the same person...
2. It means to see through something or someone, that is, to interpret things correctly. In this case Bianca is correctly interpreting the rambling descriptions of her son.
3. A lawn. :)
(Gothic novels: never use one word where four will do!)
With "acclivity" (an upward slope) it means a fairly large, sloping area of grass.
4. Usually wisdom, or insight. In this case it suggests that Bianca is trying to suggest she knows a lot more than she's telling about the history of the Marchese and his family.
5. No, that's Julio talking about himself in the third person (as characters in these novels often do). He's saying that he is going to confront the Marchese and try and find out the mystery surrounding his own birth, even if it does result in "persecution, dishonour, death" as he has been warned it will. And if the Marchese kills Julio, at least he will be "freed" from his "insupportable existence".
6. Yes. Julio has run off, presumably to try and find the Palazzo di Valdetti on his own. He a bit delirious at this point so he isn't behaving rationally.
Volume 3, Chapter 3, Part 1
1. Most of the "melancholy-s" have applied to the same person...
2. It means to see through something or someone, that is, to interpret things correctly. In this case Bianca is correctly interpreting the rambling descriptions of her son.
3. A lawn. :)
(Gothic novels: never use one word where four will do!)
With "acclivity" (an upward slope) it means a fairly large, sloping area of grass.
4. Usually wisdom, or insight. In this case it suggests that Bianca is trying to suggest she knows a lot more than she's telling about the history of the Marchese and his family.
5. No, that's Julio talking about himself in the third person (as characters in these novels often do). He's saying that he is going to confront the Marchese and try and find out the mystery surrounding his own birth, even if it does result in "persecution, dishonour, death" as he has been warned it will. And if the Marchese kills Julio, at least he will be "freed" from his "insupportable existence".
6. Yes. Julio has run off, presumably to try and find the Palazzo di Valdetti on his own. He a bit delirious at this point so he isn't behaving rationally.
183maryselo 
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184SqueakyChu
Skipping tonight. It's the Jewish holiday of Purim. Got back late from services.
185SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 3, Part 2
...in which the name of the marchese di Valdetti keeps coming up in different contexts
1. begging that she would proceed slowly
Please...so as not to confuse me!
2. I was not her child
Surprise! Surprise!
3. Oh, let further action not be confusing! :)
Ends on page 293 with
deeply buried in reflection
...in which the name of the marchese di Valdetti keeps coming up in different contexts
1. begging that she would proceed slowly
Please...so as not to confuse me!
2. I was not her child
Surprise! Surprise!
3. Oh, let further action not be confusing! :)
Ends on page 293 with
deeply buried in reflection
186lyzard
>185 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 3, Part 2
1. It's unanimous! :D
2. Think how few Gothic novels ever would have been written if they'd had DNA testing??
3. I think that's a bit too much to hope for...
Volume 3, Chapter 3, Part 2
1. It's unanimous! :D
2. Think how few Gothic novels ever would have been written if they'd had DNA testing??
3. I think that's a bit too much to hope for...
187SqueakyChu
Think how few Gothic novels ever would have been written if they'd had DNA testing??
LOL!!
LOL!!
188SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 4, Part 1
...in which Paulina was escorted out of the castle
1. she sunk senseless into the supporting arms of Lipardo
Good ploy, Paulina!
2. habiliments
Clothing?
3. with a deep verge in its front
What is a verge?
4. "Honour!"
Is that an expression used to identify a guard?
5. at the portcullis leading upon the drawbridge
What is a portcullis?
6. you have plied us often enough with French-brandy today
I assume this was part of a plot to help Paulina.
7. the common apartment in a house of public entertainment
What kind of place where they in?
8. in a melancholy (10) position
Counting melancholy.
Ends on page 301 with
children of the hostess
...in which Paulina was escorted out of the castle
1. she sunk senseless into the supporting arms of Lipardo
Good ploy, Paulina!
2. habiliments
Clothing?
3. with a deep verge in its front
What is a verge?
4. "Honour!"
Is that an expression used to identify a guard?
5. at the portcullis leading upon the drawbridge
What is a portcullis?
6. you have plied us often enough with French-brandy today
I assume this was part of a plot to help Paulina.
7. the common apartment in a house of public entertainment
What kind of place where they in?
8. in a melancholy (10) position
Counting melancholy.
Ends on page 301 with
children of the hostess
189lyzard
>188 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 3, Part 2
1. Not this time, I think! :)
2. Yes.
3. A verge is a border, so presumably her cap has a band of different colour or design across its front.
4. That would be the password for the night.
5. It's a solidly built but mesh door with spikes on the bottom, that closes by sliding downwards. Doors like that were used to defend the entries to walled cities and castles (as it is here).
6. I should say so, yes. :)
7. They are at an inn; the "common apartment" means a room open to and shared by anyone (in most inns you could hire a private room).
8. Francis Lathom seems to be using it only when it's really appropriate - how disappointing!
Volume 3, Chapter 3, Part 2
1. Not this time, I think! :)
2. Yes.
3. A verge is a border, so presumably her cap has a band of different colour or design across its front.
4. That would be the password for the night.
5. It's a solidly built but mesh door with spikes on the bottom, that closes by sliding downwards. Doors like that were used to defend the entries to walled cities and castles (as it is here).
6. I should say so, yes. :)
7. They are at an inn; the "common apartment" means a room open to and shared by anyone (in most inns you could hire a private room).
8. Francis Lathom seems to be using it only when it's really appropriate - how disappointing!
190SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 4, Part 2
...in which many people burst into Paulina's room
1. here is a bolt
I love all these bolted entranceways! If only it were as easy to make bolted gateways to keep my 1 1/2-year-old grandson out of places he should not be. We just put up a gate so he wouldn't try climbing our stairs unsupervised. He then suggested that he could "hop the gate". *sigh*
2. she found it fastened on the outside
Surprise! Surprise! (once again)
3. she opened her casement
What is a casement? A window?
4. I have absolutely no idea what just happened after all those people burst into Paulina's room. Would you explain this scene to me?
Ends on page 307 with
at an inn near Rome.
...in which many people burst into Paulina's room
1. here is a bolt
I love all these bolted entranceways! If only it were as easy to make bolted gateways to keep my 1 1/2-year-old grandson out of places he should not be. We just put up a gate so he wouldn't try climbing our stairs unsupervised. He then suggested that he could "hop the gate". *sigh*
2. she found it fastened on the outside
Surprise! Surprise! (once again)
3. she opened her casement
What is a casement? A window?
4. I have absolutely no idea what just happened after all those people burst into Paulina's room. Would you explain this scene to me?
Ends on page 307 with
at an inn near Rome.
191lyzard
>190 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 4, Part 2
1. Have you tried a portcullis?
2. :)
3. A casement is a hinged window that swings open to the side.
4. Wow! We haven't had one of those scenes in ages! :D
Paulina wakes up to find someone she takes to be the Marchese in her room and starts screaming. Various people rush in. One is Giraldo, who is the Marchese's loyal servant. Another is Philippo, who was pretending to help Paulina but is secretly working for the Marchese as well. The third person who runs in, who is just another visitor to the inn, turns out to be Julio (remember, Paulina has never seen him).
Julio was last seen in the narrative going in search of the Marchese, to try and learn the secret of his own true identity (#181 / #182). He has come running not just because Paulina is screaming, but because she specifically said "Di Valdetti". He then recognises the monk - or "monk" - who he remembers from when he was at school, making an excuse to look at the cameo he was encouraged to wear (#107 / #108), and who later entered his room when he was staying at an inn on his journey from Rome to Padua and warned him at all cost to avoid the Marchese di Valdetti.
The strange thing is that the monk now claims to be *both* a holy man and the Marchese di Valdetti...
Volume 3, Chapter 4, Part 2
1. Have you tried a portcullis?
2. :)
3. A casement is a hinged window that swings open to the side.
4. Wow! We haven't had one of those scenes in ages! :D
Paulina wakes up to find someone she takes to be the Marchese in her room and starts screaming. Various people rush in. One is Giraldo, who is the Marchese's loyal servant. Another is Philippo, who was pretending to help Paulina but is secretly working for the Marchese as well. The third person who runs in, who is just another visitor to the inn, turns out to be Julio (remember, Paulina has never seen him).
Julio was last seen in the narrative going in search of the Marchese, to try and learn the secret of his own true identity (#181 / #182). He has come running not just because Paulina is screaming, but because she specifically said "Di Valdetti". He then recognises the monk - or "monk" - who he remembers from when he was at school, making an excuse to look at the cameo he was encouraged to wear (#107 / #108), and who later entered his room when he was staying at an inn on his journey from Rome to Padua and warned him at all cost to avoid the Marchese di Valdetti.
The strange thing is that the monk now claims to be *both* a holy man and the Marchese di Valdetti...
192SqueakyChu
1. Yikes!! Don't you think a portcullis would be a bit harsh?! :)
4. The strange thing is that the monk now claims to be *both* a holy man and the Marchese di Valdetti...
What?! I'll reread this scene tomorrow and then proceed slowly and carefully...but I'll stop immediately if confusion sets in! LOL!!
This is exactly why I'd never read a book such as this without your help, Liz. With your help, it's quite a lot of fun. I like this novel a lot. It's been a good choice for me. I like Paulina, Valeria and Urbino. Jeronymo is likable (in a humorous way) as well. :)
4. The strange thing is that the monk now claims to be *both* a holy man and the Marchese di Valdetti...
What?! I'll reread this scene tomorrow and then proceed slowly and carefully...but I'll stop immediately if confusion sets in! LOL!!
This is exactly why I'd never read a book such as this without your help, Liz. With your help, it's quite a lot of fun. I like this novel a lot. It's been a good choice for me. I like Paulina, Valeria and Urbino. Jeronymo is likable (in a humorous way) as well. :)
193lyzard
1. It sounded like harsh measures might be needed - he won't be hopping over THAT in a hurry! :D
4. If it makes you feel better, this definitely *is* a confusing situation...!
I'm glad you're enjoying it, confusion and all. :)
4. If it makes you feel better, this definitely *is* a confusing situation...!
I'm glad you're enjoying it, confusion and all. :)
194SqueakyChu
Phew! It does make me feel better. :)
195SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 4, Part 3
...in which Julio's father reveals himself
1. the apparent friar
So he's not a real friar?
2. How did Julio get into this room?
3. we are such poltroons
Haha! I like this word, but what does it mean? It sounds like "poultry"!
4. The "friar" that is now revealed as Julio's father....Is this the same "friar" near whom he took shelter earlier in this story?
Ends on page 310 with
eloquence, ensued
...in which Julio's father reveals himself
1. the apparent friar
So he's not a real friar?
2. How did Julio get into this room?
3. we are such poltroons
Haha! I like this word, but what does it mean? It sounds like "poultry"!
4. The "friar" that is now revealed as Julio's father....Is this the same "friar" near whom he took shelter earlier in this story?
Ends on page 310 with
eloquence, ensued
196lyzard
>195 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 4, Part 3
1. We don't really know. Too much is still unclear at this point for us to be certain about anything; although "apparent" expresses the confusion of the other characters as to this person's identity, rather than ours. :)
2. He was staying at the same inn, and came running up when he heard Paulina screaming about the Marchese di Valdetti.
3. A poltroon is a complete coward.
4. "Earlier in the story"? You'll have to be more specific! :)
Julio has only met this person twice before, as we touched upon in #190 (their meetings are on p131 and p156/157).
Volume 3, Chapter 4, Part 3
1. We don't really know. Too much is still unclear at this point for us to be certain about anything; although "apparent" expresses the confusion of the other characters as to this person's identity, rather than ours. :)
2. He was staying at the same inn, and came running up when he heard Paulina screaming about the Marchese di Valdetti.
3. A poltroon is a complete coward.
4. "Earlier in the story"? You'll have to be more specific! :)
Julio has only met this person twice before, as we touched upon in #190 (their meetings are on p131 and p156/157).
197SqueakyChu
4. "Earlier in the story"? You'll have to be more specific!
I was getting the 'friar" confused with Father Anselmo. I understand now that these are two completely different people.
I was getting the 'friar" confused with Father Anselmo. I understand now that these are two completely different people.
200SqueakyChu
Skipping tonight. Busy with BookCrossing/Little Free Library issues (all of them fun, though!).
201SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 5, Part 1
...in which Lipardo shows up in Ricarda's clothes
1. I have to stop here because there is too much is going on. Is what is happening that those who work for the marchese are changing allegiance and will do whatever Julio says because he can also pay them lots of money?
Ends on page 315 with
marriage with Vincentio
...in which Lipardo shows up in Ricarda's clothes
1. I have to stop here because there is too much is going on. Is what is happening that those who work for the marchese are changing allegiance and will do whatever Julio says because he can also pay them lots of money?
Ends on page 315 with
marriage with Vincentio
202lyzard
>201 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 5, Part 1
I did warn you that it got confusing! :)
1. Yes, basically. Julio has made it clear that the Marchese's servants (Philippo and Giraldo) can either be *paid* for their information, or have it beaten out of them. Both of them have agreed to tell what they know, Philippo more reluctantly than Giraldo. However, before they can say anything, Lipardo himself turns up and reassures Paulina that Vincentio is safe.
Volume 3, Chapter 5, Part 1
I did warn you that it got confusing! :)
1. Yes, basically. Julio has made it clear that the Marchese's servants (Philippo and Giraldo) can either be *paid* for their information, or have it beaten out of them. Both of them have agreed to tell what they know, Philippo more reluctantly than Giraldo. However, before they can say anything, Lipardo himself turns up and reassures Paulina that Vincentio is safe.
203SqueakyChu
Okay...I'll then proceed with caution tomorrow. So far, so good. Thank you!
204SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 5, Part 2
...in which Philippo tries to get on the better side of the marchese than Lipardo
1. Duretti
Oh, please don't add any more characters to this novel!
2. where his retrenchments would not be observed
What are retrenchments?
3. in the hungry trammels of the ordinary domestic
What are trammels?
4. Let me see if I'm on the right track. We're now dealing with a jealous Philippo who doesn't want all favors from the marchese to go to Lipardo. That's why Philippo is about to disclose to the marchese where Paulina is.
Ends on page 320 with
disclosing his suspicions to the marchese
...in which Philippo tries to get on the better side of the marchese than Lipardo
1. Duretti
Oh, please don't add any more characters to this novel!
2. where his retrenchments would not be observed
What are retrenchments?
3. in the hungry trammels of the ordinary domestic
What are trammels?
4. Let me see if I'm on the right track. We're now dealing with a jealous Philippo who doesn't want all favors from the marchese to go to Lipardo. That's why Philippo is about to disclose to the marchese where Paulina is.
Ends on page 320 with
disclosing his suspicions to the marchese
205lyzard
>204 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 5, Part 2
1. Oh, please don't add any more characters to this novel!
:D
2. Cutting down expenses. The Marchese has been extravagant and is in debt, but he does all his cost-cutting at his isolated castle, so that no-one knows that he is in financial trouble.
3. Restrictions. Philippo is jealous of Lipardo because Lipardo receives all sorts of privileges from the Marchese, while he (Philippo) is treated like an ordinary servant.
4. These passages are describing what happened before Paulina escaped from the castle. Lipardo arranged for Paulina and Vincentio to be married, by smuggling a priest into the castle. The jealous Philippo had been spying on them, and found out what was going on. He told the Marchese who burst into the room where the ceremony was taking place, but not soon enough to stop Paulina and Vincentio being married.
Volume 3, Chapter 5, Part 2
1. Oh, please don't add any more characters to this novel!
:D
2. Cutting down expenses. The Marchese has been extravagant and is in debt, but he does all his cost-cutting at his isolated castle, so that no-one knows that he is in financial trouble.
3. Restrictions. Philippo is jealous of Lipardo because Lipardo receives all sorts of privileges from the Marchese, while he (Philippo) is treated like an ordinary servant.
4. These passages are describing what happened before Paulina escaped from the castle. Lipardo arranged for Paulina and Vincentio to be married, by smuggling a priest into the castle. The jealous Philippo had been spying on them, and found out what was going on. He told the Marchese who burst into the room where the ceremony was taking place, but not soon enough to stop Paulina and Vincentio being married.
206SqueakyChu
>205 lyzard:
4. Thanks for the clarification.
*proceeds slowly and carefully through the next few pages*
4. Thanks for the clarification.
*proceeds slowly and carefully through the next few pages*
207SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 5, Part 3
...in which the marchese makes plans to move Paulina
1. Bellini
Yet another new character?!
2. This is what I think is happening now. The marchese has imprisoned Lipardo and Vincentio (but the marchese knows not where) and the marchese makes plans for his other servants to take Paulina, disguised as a male soldier (?) to Bellini's inn.
3. the ring
Remind me about the ring. It was taken by whom from whom and why?
Ends on page 324 with
quitted the cell
...in which the marchese makes plans to move Paulina
1. Bellini
Yet another new character?!
2. This is what I think is happening now. The marchese has imprisoned Lipardo and Vincentio (but the marchese knows not where) and the marchese makes plans for his other servants to take Paulina, disguised as a male soldier (?) to Bellini's inn.
3. the ring
Remind me about the ring. It was taken by whom from whom and why?
Ends on page 324 with
quitted the cell
208lyzard
>207 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 5, Part 3
1. Well, now they're just screwing with you... :D
2. That's pretty close, but there's an extra detail you've missed. Apparently that there are some other prisoners (we don't know who yet), and this is the hold that Lipardo has over the Marchese, who does not know where those other people are being held. It seems that the Marchese doesn't dare face these other prisoners and has always made Lipardo look after them, which is a problem now that Lipardo himself is a prisoner.
3. It is Lipardo's ring. Philippo took it from him by force and used it to convince Paulina that he (Philippo) was working for Lipardo, so that she would leave the castle with him.
Volume 3, Chapter 5, Part 3
1. Well, now they're just screwing with you... :D
2. That's pretty close, but there's an extra detail you've missed. Apparently that there are some other prisoners (we don't know who yet), and this is the hold that Lipardo has over the Marchese, who does not know where those other people are being held. It seems that the Marchese doesn't dare face these other prisoners and has always made Lipardo look after them, which is a problem now that Lipardo himself is a prisoner.
3. It is Lipardo's ring. Philippo took it from him by force and used it to convince Paulina that he (Philippo) was working for Lipardo, so that she would leave the castle with him.
209SqueakyChu
>208 lyzard:
2. and 3. Thanks for your help with these. Stick around while I try to figure out the rest of this chapter! :)
2. and 3. Thanks for your help with these. Stick around while I try to figure out the rest of this chapter! :)
210SqueakyChu
Skipping tonight. Got too involved with other things.
211SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 5, Part 4
...in which I'm not sure what happened
(or)
...in which we find out that Paulina is Julio's sister
1. which he overheard
An overheard conversation! This could be significant. :)
2. domestics were sent to give enlargement to Lipardo
What does this phrase mean?
3. if you have the hardiness to raise but a finger of injury against my son
I thought a servant could not threaten his master.
4. The protector of Vicentio's bride is my son
Whose son? I can't follow this. :(
5. a resemblance between them
Obviously the pilgrim and marchese de Valdetti are related.
6. I have no idea what just happened or what was revealed!
*too confused to imagine as everyone seems to be related to everyone else* LOL!
Could you clarify the series of revelations?
Ends on page 330 with
with adequate effect
...in which I'm not sure what happened
(or)
...in which we find out that Paulina is Julio's sister
1. which he overheard
An overheard conversation! This could be significant. :)
2. domestics were sent to give enlargement to Lipardo
What does this phrase mean?
3. if you have the hardiness to raise but a finger of injury against my son
I thought a servant could not threaten his master.
4. The protector of Vicentio's bride is my son
Whose son? I can't follow this. :(
5. a resemblance between them
Obviously the pilgrim and marchese de Valdetti are related.
6. I have no idea what just happened or what was revealed!
*too confused to imagine as everyone seems to be related to everyone else* LOL!
Could you clarify the series of revelations?
Ends on page 330 with
with adequate effect
212lyzard
>211 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 5, Part 4
*too confused to imagine as everyone seems to be related to everyone else*
Yeah, that's a pretty good summation! :D
I love the fact that under your chapter heading, you're too confused to finish your "in which---"!
Remember in this section, we are still dealing with events in the past, i.e. what happened before Paulina, Julio and the mysterious monk met at the inn.
1. Overheard conversations are ALWAYS significant - no-one ever eavesdropped on anything boring! In this case Paulo, a servant of Vincentio, overhears the plot to smuggle Paulina away.
2. After the Marchese burst into the wedding, he had both Lipardo and Vincentio locked up. Now he sends servants, "domestics", to let Lipardo out - to "give enlargement", freedom, to him.
3. Well, we've established that Lipardo knows the Marchese's dirty secrets, particularly regarding the "other prisoners". This is also why the Marchese let Lipardo out of his confinement. Clearly this knowledge gives Lipardo power over the Marchese, to the point of threatening him.
4. It is the monk speaking. He is telling Lipardo that Julio, who has rescued Paulina, is his (the monk's) son.
5. To quote Lipardo---"Continue to think so, and you will not be deceived." :)
6. This is something we touched upon before (#191): the monk seems to be saying that he *is* the Marchese di Valdetti, which means that the person at the castle who has been causing all the trouble is *not* the Marchese.
Which means that Julio has not only found his long-lost father, he has found out that his father is a nobleman.
Lipardo then reveals that Paulina is the Monk-Marchese's long-lost daughter - which presumably he knew from her scars - and that Paulina has just married Vincentio - which means that they're now all related!
The explanation is confused by the use of "son" and "daughter" where we would say "son-in-law" and "daughter-in-law", but that is how those relationships were described at the time.
So to finish your header---
...in which we find out that Paulina is Julio's sister.
Volume 3, Chapter 5, Part 4
*too confused to imagine as everyone seems to be related to everyone else*
Yeah, that's a pretty good summation! :D
I love the fact that under your chapter heading, you're too confused to finish your "in which---"!
Remember in this section, we are still dealing with events in the past, i.e. what happened before Paulina, Julio and the mysterious monk met at the inn.
1. Overheard conversations are ALWAYS significant - no-one ever eavesdropped on anything boring! In this case Paulo, a servant of Vincentio, overhears the plot to smuggle Paulina away.
2. After the Marchese burst into the wedding, he had both Lipardo and Vincentio locked up. Now he sends servants, "domestics", to let Lipardo out - to "give enlargement", freedom, to him.
3. Well, we've established that Lipardo knows the Marchese's dirty secrets, particularly regarding the "other prisoners". This is also why the Marchese let Lipardo out of his confinement. Clearly this knowledge gives Lipardo power over the Marchese, to the point of threatening him.
4. It is the monk speaking. He is telling Lipardo that Julio, who has rescued Paulina, is his (the monk's) son.
5. To quote Lipardo---"Continue to think so, and you will not be deceived." :)
6. This is something we touched upon before (#191): the monk seems to be saying that he *is* the Marchese di Valdetti, which means that the person at the castle who has been causing all the trouble is *not* the Marchese.
Which means that Julio has not only found his long-lost father, he has found out that his father is a nobleman.
Lipardo then reveals that Paulina is the Monk-Marchese's long-lost daughter - which presumably he knew from her scars - and that Paulina has just married Vincentio - which means that they're now all related!
The explanation is confused by the use of "son" and "daughter" where we would say "son-in-law" and "daughter-in-law", but that is how those relationships were described at the time.
So to finish your header---
...in which we find out that Paulina is Julio's sister.
213SqueakyChu
>212 lyzard:
I love the fact that under your chapter heading, you're too confused to finish your "in which---"!
I'll go back and finish it now!
6. This is something we touched upon before (#191): the monk seems to be saying that he *is* the Marchese di Valdetti, which means that the person at the castle who has been causing all the trouble is *not* the Marchese.
Which means that Julio has not only found his long-lost father, he has found out that his father is a nobleman.
So how did the "fake" marchese de Valdetti get into his present situation?
6. Lipardo then reveals that Paulina is the Monk-Marchese's long-lost daughter - which presumably he knew from her scars - and that Paulina has just married Vincentio - which means that they're now all related!
Oy vey! Couldn't all this have been spread out into separate sections to make the revelations less confusing?!
We now have a very nice wrap-up in which Valeria will finally be in Urbino's family when she marries Julio, but that slaying that Julio did still hangs in the air. I'm assuming that will all be made right later in the book.
Proceeding forward step by step...
I love the fact that under your chapter heading, you're too confused to finish your "in which---"!
I'll go back and finish it now!
6. This is something we touched upon before (#191): the monk seems to be saying that he *is* the Marchese di Valdetti, which means that the person at the castle who has been causing all the trouble is *not* the Marchese.
Which means that Julio has not only found his long-lost father, he has found out that his father is a nobleman.
So how did the "fake" marchese de Valdetti get into his present situation?
6. Lipardo then reveals that Paulina is the Monk-Marchese's long-lost daughter - which presumably he knew from her scars - and that Paulina has just married Vincentio - which means that they're now all related!
Oy vey! Couldn't all this have been spread out into separate sections to make the revelations less confusing?!
We now have a very nice wrap-up in which Valeria will finally be in Urbino's family when she marries Julio, but that slaying that Julio did still hangs in the air. I'm assuming that will all be made right later in the book.
Proceeding forward step by step...
214lyzard
So how did the "fake" marchese de Valdetti get into his present situation?
Read on, my dear, and all will be revealed...
6. Well, they've accidentally all ended up in the same room at the same time - it wasn't planned! :D
As for the rest...wait and see...
Read on, my dear, and all will be revealed...
6. Well, they've accidentally all ended up in the same room at the same time - it wasn't planned! :D
As for the rest...wait and see...
215SqueakyChu
they've accidentally all ended up in the same room at the same time - it wasn't planned!
LOL!
LOL!
216SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 6, Part 1
...in which we learn the story of the twin brothers
1. who were both sons, and twins
I was right about the marchese having a twin!
2. opprobrious epithets
What does opprobrious mean?
3. to come and visit him
I would not trust this visit of Alberto although I think what Claudio did by marrying the girl Alberto told his brother was his own love was wrong. In this story, though, Claudio is made to appear as the sensitive twin and Alberto the contentious one.
Ends on page 336 with
to come and visit him.
...in which we learn the story of the twin brothers
1. who were both sons, and twins
I was right about the marchese having a twin!
2. opprobrious epithets
What does opprobrious mean?
3. to come and visit him
I would not trust this visit of Alberto although I think what Claudio did by marrying the girl Alberto told his brother was his own love was wrong. In this story, though, Claudio is made to appear as the sensitive twin and Alberto the contentious one.
Ends on page 336 with
to come and visit him.
217lyzard
>216 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 6
1. Read enough Gothic novels, you'll come across that one sooner or later!
2. Abusive, insulting.
3. But what about Camilla's feelings? There's no indication she ever cared for Alberto, but she does love Claudio. Besides, as Alberto admits, he's hardly acquainted with Camilla when he introduces Claudio to her; more likely that (as with Paulina) he's just attracted to her physically.
Volume 3, Chapter 6
1. Read enough Gothic novels, you'll come across that one sooner or later!
2. Abusive, insulting.
3. But what about Camilla's feelings? There's no indication she ever cared for Alberto, but she does love Claudio. Besides, as Alberto admits, he's hardly acquainted with Camilla when he introduces Claudio to her; more likely that (as with Paulina) he's just attracted to her physically.
219lyzard
Uh, again - Camilla's feelings are irrelevant??
"I mean, I love you and I know you love me, and that you don't care a toss for my brother, and I'm breaking your heart and we'll both be miserable, but...oh, well!" :D
"I mean, I love you and I know you love me, and that you don't care a toss for my brother, and I'm breaking your heart and we'll both be miserable, but...oh, well!" :D
220SqueakyChu
I still feel as if the "good guy" is "horning in" on his brother. No, Camilla's feelings are not irrelevant, but this all happened so quickly. This only tells me that a guy with an identical twin needs to be careful. Why introduce someone you are attracted to to someone who might take away your love interest? It still feels wrong. At that point, Alberto did nothing wrong to Camilla to warrant her affections to turn toward Claudio.
he (Claudio) frequently repeated his visits
Claudio was pressuring his way into the (even potential) relationship between Camilla and Alberto.
In some ways, gothic novels are so "perfect"...with the lines drawn between the good guys and the bad guys. To me, this small episode shows that all cannot be so clearly delineated.
he (Claudio) frequently repeated his visits
Claudio was pressuring his way into the (even potential) relationship between Camilla and Alberto.
In some ways, gothic novels are so "perfect"...with the lines drawn between the good guys and the bad guys. To me, this small episode shows that all cannot be so clearly delineated.
221SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 6, Part 2
...in which Alberto stabs Camilla
1. concealed dungeons
...in which he hopes to conceal his brother, I would imagine
2. unsuspicious dupe of his arts
What does "dupe of his arts" mean?
3. plunged his dagger...into her heart
That certainly doesn't help his cause!
Addendum: Simply put, this is why two brothers should not go after the same woman. :)
Ends on page 340 with
tongue to tongue
...in which Alberto stabs Camilla
1. concealed dungeons
...in which he hopes to conceal his brother, I would imagine
2. unsuspicious dupe of his arts
What does "dupe of his arts" mean?
3. plunged his dagger...into her heart
That certainly doesn't help his cause!
Addendum: Simply put, this is why two brothers should not go after the same woman. :)
Ends on page 340 with
tongue to tongue
222lyzard
>220 SqueakyChu:
Hmm, well...I don't much care for two men deciding a woman's fate without her opinion being asked; but of course it gives us what we need here since, whether Claudio and Camilla are right or wrong, Alberto can feel he has a grievance...and given what we've already seen of Alberto's behaviour, we can be pretty sure it's all going to end in tears... :D
ETA: Timing! Cross-post!! :)
>221 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 6, Part 2
1. ...or anyone else who looks at him wrong!
2. That he was fooled by him, tricked by his pretended forgiveness and friendship. "Arts" as it being artful, tricky.
3. Well, no, not really.
(...or why Camilla preferred Claudio to Alberto??...)
Hmm, well...I don't much care for two men deciding a woman's fate without her opinion being asked; but of course it gives us what we need here since, whether Claudio and Camilla are right or wrong, Alberto can feel he has a grievance...and given what we've already seen of Alberto's behaviour, we can be pretty sure it's all going to end in tears... :D
ETA: Timing! Cross-post!! :)
>221 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 6, Part 2
1. ...or anyone else who looks at him wrong!
2. That he was fooled by him, tricked by his pretended forgiveness and friendship. "Arts" as it being artful, tricky.
3. Well, no, not really.
(...or why Camilla preferred Claudio to Alberto??...)
223SqueakyChu
>222 lyzard:
What was wrong was that the two brothers didn't talk among themselves, both decided they wanted this girl. They're brothers. They can talk instead of act impetuously and behind each other's back. I'm surprised the brothers didn't get into a duel at that time.
What was wrong was that the two brothers didn't talk among themselves, both decided they wanted this girl. They're brothers. They can talk instead of act impetuously and behind each other's back. I'm surprised the brothers didn't get into a duel at that time.
224SqueakyChu
>222 lyzard:
why Camilla preferred Claudio to Alberto??...)
She preferred Claudio because this is a gothic novel, and the lovely lady likes the good guy. You know that! ;)
why Camilla preferred Claudio to Alberto??...)
She preferred Claudio because this is a gothic novel, and the lovely lady likes the good guy. You know that! ;)
225lyzard
>223 SqueakyChu:
I don't think Alberto would do anything as straightforward as fight a duel: he's more the "concealed dungeon and daggers" kind! :)
>224 SqueakyChu:
It makes a pleasant change from being told that women only really like bad boys, which I hear dismally frequently these days.
I don't think Alberto would do anything as straightforward as fight a duel: he's more the "concealed dungeon and daggers" kind! :)
>224 SqueakyChu:
It makes a pleasant change from being told that women only really like bad boys, which I hear dismally frequently these days.
226SqueakyChu
>225 lyzard:
It makes a pleasant change from being told that women only really like bad boys, which I hear dismally frequently these days.
That's for sure.
It makes a pleasant change from being told that women only really like bad boys, which I hear dismally frequently these days.
That's for sure.
227SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 7, Part 1
...in which Camilla disappears and Claudio is in seclusion
1. with your adjunction in my wishes
What is adjunction?
2. to ameliorate the lot of his daughter
I'm not understanding to what this refers.
3. My head is swimming. Julio is presented to the world as whom? What about Vincentio? He was Ricardo and Lipardo's son but presented to the world as the nephew of Alberto?
4. Where is Claudio? Is he in a dungeon or in a secret apartment?
5. I thought in the last chapter that Camilla had been murdered...but I guess not!
Ends on page 346 with
nephew of the marchese Alberto di Valdetti
...in which Camilla disappears and Claudio is in seclusion
1. with your adjunction in my wishes
What is adjunction?
2. to ameliorate the lot of his daughter
I'm not understanding to what this refers.
3. My head is swimming. Julio is presented to the world as whom? What about Vincentio? He was Ricardo and Lipardo's son but presented to the world as the nephew of Alberto?
4. Where is Claudio? Is he in a dungeon or in a secret apartment?
5. I thought in the last chapter that Camilla had been murdered...but I guess not!
Ends on page 346 with
nephew of the marchese Alberto di Valdetti
228lyzard
>227 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 7
1. It means "joining together" - in this context, to go along with (i.e. if Lipardo will go along with what Alberto plans to do).
2. "Ameliorate" means to ease, or make more comfortable. Lipardo helps Alberto to lock Claudio up in one of the concealed dungeons, but then without Alberto's knowledge he moves Claudio to a much more comfortable secret room---the same secret room that many years later he let Paulina (Claudio's daughter) use, when Alberto wanted her imprisoned.
3. My head is swimming.
:D
Alberto is getting rid of challengers to the title of "Marchese", though he can't quite bring himself to murder the baby Julio. Instead he makes a deal with Lipardo: Julio (Alberto's nephew) should be left somewhere as an anonymous foundling, and then if Lipardo and Ricarda have a son (which they do, Vincentio), that baby will be brought up as Alberto's nephew and eventually inherit everything (indirectly enriching Lipardo).
Lipardo agrees to this but makes it a condition that Alberto never marry, so that he won't have a son of his own. Alberto breaks the deal when he tries to marry Paulina, which is why (or one of the reasons) that Lipardo interferes and helps Paulina.
4. First in the dungeon, then in the secret apartment (which Alberto doesn't know about).
5. No, she was weak with blood loss but not dead. It isn't clear at this point whether she has run away with the baby Paulina, or if Alberto has done something to her...though we might want to think back to Urbino's story of how he acquired Paulina, and the woman with the knife wound in her side... (pp255-258)
Volume 3, Chapter 7
1. It means "joining together" - in this context, to go along with (i.e. if Lipardo will go along with what Alberto plans to do).
2. "Ameliorate" means to ease, or make more comfortable. Lipardo helps Alberto to lock Claudio up in one of the concealed dungeons, but then without Alberto's knowledge he moves Claudio to a much more comfortable secret room---the same secret room that many years later he let Paulina (Claudio's daughter) use, when Alberto wanted her imprisoned.
3. My head is swimming.
:D
Alberto is getting rid of challengers to the title of "Marchese", though he can't quite bring himself to murder the baby Julio. Instead he makes a deal with Lipardo: Julio (Alberto's nephew) should be left somewhere as an anonymous foundling, and then if Lipardo and Ricarda have a son (which they do, Vincentio), that baby will be brought up as Alberto's nephew and eventually inherit everything (indirectly enriching Lipardo).
Lipardo agrees to this but makes it a condition that Alberto never marry, so that he won't have a son of his own. Alberto breaks the deal when he tries to marry Paulina, which is why (or one of the reasons) that Lipardo interferes and helps Paulina.
4. First in the dungeon, then in the secret apartment (which Alberto doesn't know about).
5. No, she was weak with blood loss but not dead. It isn't clear at this point whether she has run away with the baby Paulina, or if Alberto has done something to her...though we might want to think back to Urbino's story of how he acquired Paulina, and the woman with the knife wound in her side... (pp255-258)
229SqueakyChu
*rereads and reacquaints herself with the contents of pp. 255-258*
So..where is Camilla now?
Don't go away, Liz. I need your help now more than ever! :)
So..where is Camilla now?
Don't go away, Liz. I need your help now more than ever! :)
230SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 7, Part 2
...in which we realize that Alberto recognizes that Paulina is his niece
1. again and again returned heartbroken
Claudio will find Camilla!
2. Paulina burst into tears
It's been hard on this woman. She can cry.
3. compelling her to take the veil
This is the villain's easy way out!
4. Phew! This is such a complicated plot!
Ends on page 352 with
pursue the thread of our narrative
...in which we realize that Alberto recognizes that Paulina is his niece
1. again and again returned heartbroken
Claudio will find Camilla!
2. Paulina burst into tears
It's been hard on this woman. She can cry.
3. compelling her to take the veil
This is the villain's easy way out!
4. Phew! This is such a complicated plot!
Ends on page 352 with
pursue the thread of our narrative
231lyzard
>229 SqueakyChu:
Not going anywhere, don't worry!
>230 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 7, Part 2
1. Ahem. According to Julio, Camilla died - and got autopsied - in Padua. (pp162 - 164)
2. That's very big of you! :D
3. Though we should remember that lots of parents did that to their unwanted daughters, too. :(
4. I warned you!!
Not going anywhere, don't worry!
>230 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 7, Part 2
1. Ahem. According to Julio, Camilla died - and got autopsied - in Padua. (pp162 - 164)
2. That's very big of you! :D
3. Though we should remember that lots of parents did that to their unwanted daughters, too. :(
4. I warned you!!
232SqueakyChu
I warned you!!
LOL! You did.
I'm glad you are remembering parts of this story that I've already completely forgotten. That's why I am hopeless at murder mysteries. Don't even think of trying that kind of novel with me. :)
I'm almost near the end of the story and think this novel was a fun choice. I'm glad I don't have to take a test on it though! :D
LOL! You did.
I'm glad you are remembering parts of this story that I've already completely forgotten. That's why I am hopeless at murder mysteries. Don't even think of trying that kind of novel with me. :)
I'm almost near the end of the story and think this novel was a fun choice. I'm glad I don't have to take a test on it though! :D
233SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 8
...in which Alberto is killed
1. where can be the harm of taking a fee on both sides, like some of the lawyers
No bad-mouthing lawyers! My daughter just took her bar exam last month! :)
2. I am content, if I share the money
Ugh! Some people are so easy to bribe.
3. Claudio! Julio! appear!
*applause*
4. sunk fainting on his breast
Revive her!
5. The nun was Camilla!
6. the last instance of Alberto's existence
*standing applause*
7. What drama! :)
Ends on page 360 with
the last instance of Alberto's existence
...in which Alberto is killed
1. where can be the harm of taking a fee on both sides, like some of the lawyers
No bad-mouthing lawyers! My daughter just took her bar exam last month! :)
2. I am content, if I share the money
Ugh! Some people are so easy to bribe.
3. Claudio! Julio! appear!
*applause*
4. sunk fainting on his breast
Revive her!
5. The nun was Camilla!
6. the last instance of Alberto's existence
*standing applause*
7. What drama! :)
Ends on page 360 with
the last instance of Alberto's existence
234lyzard
>233 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 8
2. Remember, though, that after the family was "rearranged" (with all the bribing that went on), Alberto has been keeping these guys on starvation wages for years, and making it impossible for them to get another job if they quit. So I guess we can't entirely blame them for getting what they can, while they can. :)
Interesting that Alberto was killed while trying to kill someone else; these novels almost always end in outright suicide for the villain. Alberto wasn't giving in without a fight! :)
Volume 3, Chapter 8
2. Remember, though, that after the family was "rearranged" (with all the bribing that went on), Alberto has been keeping these guys on starvation wages for years, and making it impossible for them to get another job if they quit. So I guess we can't entirely blame them for getting what they can, while they can. :)
Interesting that Alberto was killed while trying to kill someone else; these novels almost always end in outright suicide for the villain. Alberto wasn't giving in without a fight! :)
235SqueakyChu
I'm curious to find out who the woman with the autopsy was since Camilla is alive.
236SqueakyChu
Skipping tonight. Family just left.
237SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 9
...in which we learn about Camilla's two sisters
1. there existed amongst them a family resemblance
How convenient for this story!
2. bedewed the cheeks of her infant
This is permissible, considering the situation.
3. subjects of a stranger's conversations or animadversions
What are animadversions?
4. I'm not clear how Antonia had become so wealthy.
5. Whoa! This was a loaded chapter!! This has been a pretty wild novel so far with so many individuals weaving in and out of each chapter. I'm curious to see how it will all end...happily, I'm sure!
Ends on page 371 with
sum of general happiness.
...in which we learn about Camilla's two sisters
1. there existed amongst them a family resemblance
How convenient for this story!
2. bedewed the cheeks of her infant
This is permissible, considering the situation.
3. subjects of a stranger's conversations or animadversions
What are animadversions?
4. I'm not clear how Antonia had become so wealthy.
5. Whoa! This was a loaded chapter!! This has been a pretty wild novel so far with so many individuals weaving in and out of each chapter. I'm curious to see how it will all end...happily, I'm sure!
Ends on page 371 with
sum of general happiness.
238lyzard
>237 SqueakyChu:
Volume 3, Chapter 9
1. Everything that happens in every book is "convenient", you know..! :D
2. Phew!
3. Severe criticisms.
4. Put bluntly, she became first a high-class (high-cost) prostitute, then the madam of a high-society brothel. :)
5. I may not get to say this again, so...wait and see!
Volume 3, Chapter 9
1. Everything that happens in every book is "convenient", you know..! :D
2. Phew!
3. Severe criticisms.
4. Put bluntly, she became first a high-class (high-cost) prostitute, then the madam of a high-society brothel. :)
5. I may not get to say this again, so...wait and see!
239SqueakyChu
4.
she became first a high-class (high-cost) prostitute, then the madam of a high-society brothel
That went over my head.
she became first a high-class (high-cost) prostitute, then the madam of a high-society brothel
That went over my head.
240SqueakyChu
Volume 3, Chapter 10
...in which our story ends
1. is my sister Rodovina
I think it's time to stop introducing new characters into this novel!
2. Oh, man! I don't like this ending. Everyone is happy except Julio and Valeria, and yet they both state they're happy! What just happened?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
This novel ends on page 377 with
UPON EARTH.
THE END
Infinite thanks to you, Liz, for your excellent tutoring and the joy you brought to me in reading this novel. I did enjoy it very much even if it did have too many characters who were constantly woven in and out of the plot! Haha!
...in which our story ends
1. is my sister Rodovina
I think it's time to stop introducing new characters into this novel!
2. Oh, man! I don't like this ending. Everyone is happy except Julio and Valeria, and yet they both state they're happy! What just happened?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
This novel ends on page 377 with
UPON EARTH.
THE END
Infinite thanks to you, Liz, for your excellent tutoring and the joy you brought to me in reading this novel. I did enjoy it very much even if it did have too many characters who were constantly woven in and out of the plot! Haha!
241lyzard
>239 SqueakyChu:
The first we heard about Antonia, she was running away with a man unmarried (p363); when we catch up with her again, she has been abandoned and is in financial difficulty. This is when Camilla finds her and the miniature is exchanged, just before Camilla goes into the convent.
Afterwards, perhaps "prostitute" isn't quite accurate, but she becomes a serial mistress, and makes sure to save as much as she can from the men she takes up with. She briefly thinks about reforming, but instead she uses her savings to buy a mansion, Where all the mysteries of dissolute pleasure were solemnized under her sovereign nod. (Which sounds like her brothel is catering to some exotic tastes!)
Just after this she meets Julio and realises he is her nephew. She sends him the miniature but he misunderstands her message and thinks she is saying she is his mother; because of the resemblance between Camilla and Antonia, Julio also doesn't realise the miniature is not a picture of the latter.
Having met her nephew makes Antonia think about her life and get remorseful, and then she dies, more or less, of a broken heart...and ends up in autopsy, where Urbino's son says rude things about her to Julio, provoking the duel.
The first we heard about Antonia, she was running away with a man unmarried (p363); when we catch up with her again, she has been abandoned and is in financial difficulty. This is when Camilla finds her and the miniature is exchanged, just before Camilla goes into the convent.
Afterwards, perhaps "prostitute" isn't quite accurate, but she becomes a serial mistress, and makes sure to save as much as she can from the men she takes up with. She briefly thinks about reforming, but instead she uses her savings to buy a mansion, Where all the mysteries of dissolute pleasure were solemnized under her sovereign nod. (Which sounds like her brothel is catering to some exotic tastes!)
Just after this she meets Julio and realises he is her nephew. She sends him the miniature but he misunderstands her message and thinks she is saying she is his mother; because of the resemblance between Camilla and Antonia, Julio also doesn't realise the miniature is not a picture of the latter.
Having met her nephew makes Antonia think about her life and get remorseful, and then she dies, more or less, of a broken heart...and ends up in autopsy, where Urbino's son says rude things about her to Julio, provoking the duel.
242SqueakyChu
We never get any closure about the duel, though. Julio then remains the "bad guy" for the rest of the book...as we see in the conclusion. I thought something would happen to absolve him of being the "murderer" of Urbino's son. Alas, nothing did. I thought of Julio as a more romantic character than Vincentio.
How in the world did Francis Lathom think up such a complicated plot?!
How in the world did Francis Lathom think up such a complicated plot?!
243lyzard
>240 SqueakyChu:
>242 SqueakyChu: Oops, cross-posting!
Volume 3, Chapter 10
1. It's the last one, I promise!
2. It's indicative, I think, of how late in the cycle of the Gothic novel Italian Mysteries was published that it is prepared to avert expectation like that. Consciously or unconsciously we're expecting that Urbino's son is somehow not dead after all, but Francis Lathom refuses to play the game. Nor does he allow his characters to just "get over" what Julio has done.
Instead of happy-ever-after, Lathom goes for stern moral - they did their duty and resigned themselves to the will of God; happiness follows.
I should add that there are some Gothic novels out there with tragic endings, but we haven't come across them yet.
Also, Julio killing someone in a duel being taken so seriously tags this as a 19th century novel rather than an 18th century one, with increasing legal penalties and public disapproval effectively killing the practice off over the first half on the 1800s.
The thing that gets me about this ending is that after Claudio and Camilla go through all that in regaining their titles and their property, their son goes into a monastery and, presumably, won't be producing any heirs to the estate! We'll have to hope that a son of Paulina's gets to inherit. :)
>242 SqueakyChu: Oops, cross-posting!
Volume 3, Chapter 10
1. It's the last one, I promise!
2. It's indicative, I think, of how late in the cycle of the Gothic novel Italian Mysteries was published that it is prepared to avert expectation like that. Consciously or unconsciously we're expecting that Urbino's son is somehow not dead after all, but Francis Lathom refuses to play the game. Nor does he allow his characters to just "get over" what Julio has done.
Instead of happy-ever-after, Lathom goes for stern moral - they did their duty and resigned themselves to the will of God; happiness follows.
I should add that there are some Gothic novels out there with tragic endings, but we haven't come across them yet.
Also, Julio killing someone in a duel being taken so seriously tags this as a 19th century novel rather than an 18th century one, with increasing legal penalties and public disapproval effectively killing the practice off over the first half on the 1800s.
The thing that gets me about this ending is that after Claudio and Camilla go through all that in regaining their titles and their property, their son goes into a monastery and, presumably, won't be producing any heirs to the estate! We'll have to hope that a son of Paulina's gets to inherit. :)
244SqueakyChu
Consciously or unconsciously we're expecting that Urbino's son is somehow not dead after all, but Francis Lathom refuses to play the game. Nor does he allow his characters to just "get over" what Julio has done.
But, but, but...that is so unlike anything I've come to expect from a gothic novel!
But, but, but...that is so unlike anything I've come to expect from a gothic novel!
245SqueakyChu
I should add that there are some Gothic novels out there with tragic endings, but we haven't come across them yet.
One of those might be good for the future! :)
One of those might be good for the future! :)
246lyzard
>244 SqueakyChu:
...and so the next time a Gothic novel tells you someone is dead, you won't be quite so smugly certain they're not dead, will you?? :D
>245 SqueakyChu:
Whether we can get easy access to them is another matter, but I will try.
...and so the next time a Gothic novel tells you someone is dead, you won't be quite so smugly certain they're not dead, will you?? :D
>245 SqueakyChu:
Whether we can get easy access to them is another matter, but I will try.
248SqueakyChu
The thing that gets me about this ending is that after Claudio and Camilla go through all that in regaining their titles and their property, their son goes into a monastery and, presumably, won't be producing any heirs to the estate! We'll have to hope that a son of Paulina's gets to inherit.
That is so wrong! To me, Valeria and Julio were the primary characters. Everyone else was extra!
Maybe Lathom got confused with all of the characters he created! ;)
That is so wrong! To me, Valeria and Julio were the primary characters. Everyone else was extra!
Maybe Lathom got confused with all of the characters he created! ;)
249SqueakyChu
...and so the next time a Gothic novel tells you someone is dead, you won't be quite so smugly certain they're not dead, will you??
Yes, I will!
Yes, I will!
250SqueakyChu
Whether we can get easy access to them is another matter, but I will try.
Take a breather now, but maybe you can give me some authors' names or book titles for which I can start searching over the next few months. After May, though, my time is going to be very limited as I'll be the full time (20 to 30 hours/week) babysitter for my toddler grandson. I'm sure that I'll be doing more running and less reading. :O
Take a breather now, but maybe you can give me some authors' names or book titles for which I can start searching over the next few months. After May, though, my time is going to be very limited as I'll be the full time (20 to 30 hours/week) babysitter for my toddler grandson. I'm sure that I'll be doing more running and less reading. :O
251lyzard
>248 SqueakyChu:
I think in the end we spend as much time with Paulina as we do with Valeria. And Valeria's rejection of Julio occurs about 150 pages from the end of the book. It's just that we don't expect that to be the final word! :)
>250 SqueakyChu:
Not for you, this time, but there is another Francis Lathom book in the works - I picked The Midnight Bell (one of the Northanger "Horrid Novels") for Ilana when she was doing her "pick for me" session, as she had expressed some interest in Gothic novels (after reading Northanger Abbey - ain't it always the way??). We don't have anything planned for that but could possibly turn it into a group or tutored read.
Otherwise, I'm not sure. I will think about it and perhaps give you a list of titles / authors to look out for. Or you could browse the Valancourt catalogue and see if anything catches your eye?
I think in the end we spend as much time with Paulina as we do with Valeria. And Valeria's rejection of Julio occurs about 150 pages from the end of the book. It's just that we don't expect that to be the final word! :)
>250 SqueakyChu:
Not for you, this time, but there is another Francis Lathom book in the works - I picked The Midnight Bell (one of the Northanger "Horrid Novels") for Ilana when she was doing her "pick for me" session, as she had expressed some interest in Gothic novels (after reading Northanger Abbey - ain't it always the way??). We don't have anything planned for that but could possibly turn it into a group or tutored read.
Otherwise, I'm not sure. I will think about it and perhaps give you a list of titles / authors to look out for. Or you could browse the Valancourt catalogue and see if anything catches your eye?
252SqueakyChu
>251 lyzard:
I think in the end we spend as much time with Paulina as we do with Valeria. And Valeria's rejection of Julio occurs about 150 pages from the end of the book. It's just that we don't expect that to be the final word!
I know, but I never got attached to Paulina the way I did to Valeria. I guess because we started with Urbino and Valeria was his real daughter. I expected everything to go her way.
It's just that we don't expect that to be the final word!
You're right.
We don't have anything planned for that but could possibly turn it into a group or tutored read.
I think I read these novels much more slowly than Ilana. She might not like my slow pace. I can only do them a few pages at a time.
Think about some titles for a while. There is absolutely no hurry.
I'll put The Midnight Bell on my wish list and start looking for it.
I think in the end we spend as much time with Paulina as we do with Valeria. And Valeria's rejection of Julio occurs about 150 pages from the end of the book. It's just that we don't expect that to be the final word!
I know, but I never got attached to Paulina the way I did to Valeria. I guess because we started with Urbino and Valeria was his real daughter. I expected everything to go her way.
It's just that we don't expect that to be the final word!
You're right.
We don't have anything planned for that but could possibly turn it into a group or tutored read.
I think I read these novels much more slowly than Ilana. She might not like my slow pace. I can only do them a few pages at a time.
Think about some titles for a while. There is absolutely no hurry.
I'll put The Midnight Bell on my wish list and start looking for it.
253SqueakyChu
Notice to whoever wants to do this tutored read and is on BookMooch (or who wants to join BookMooch). I am listing this book there today to share with whoever wants it. First come, first served.
http://bookmooch.com/0976604868
Please note: I will only ship this within the United States.
http://bookmooch.com/0976604868
Please note: I will only ship this within the United States.
