harry potter and the Sorceror's /Philosopher's stone, discussion thread
Melde dich bei LibraryThing an, um Nachrichten zu schreiben.
Dieses Thema ruht momentan. Die letzte Nachricht liegt mehr als 90 Tage zurück. Du kannst es wieder aufgreifen, indem du eine neue Antwort schreibst.
My first thought for discussion was: Vernon saw strangely dressed people, but did other muggles?
Another question, how did the school know exactly where Harry was ?
Also, they would have to have magical means of knowing where people were, or else how would the muggle-borns ever find out about Hogwarts?
DD hoped when they took Harry in that they would treat him well, like another son. I don't think he knew that harry slept in the cupboard for ten years, or did he?
And how come, after 10 years of nothing, there are no skeptics re: Harry. Why does everyone buy the story of what happened there without reservation, even though Harry has been missing so long. You would think there would be lots of theories about it.
The other thing I realized, knowing more of the backstory, is that you know a little bit about what the characters were doing, even ones that haven't yet been mentioned. For example, shortly before Dumbledore came to Privet Drive, on that whole long day when Professor MacGonagall was sitting around watching the Dursleys, Dumbledore was (another SPOILER for book 7) in his office with an absolutely devastated Snape. . . .
I think that my point is it's interesting to know how things fit together. I was a little reluctant to embark on a whole-series reread, but I'll admit here and now that I'm glad we did.
#2 I agree about the set up of all these characters that become important. Do you suppose she knew she'd use all of them or chose to use some after the fact.
#4 I agree with LadyN, there has to be a tracking system of underage wizards- just to keep track of whether or not they've used magic etc. But it is never adequately explained in the books.
#6 LG good question given the avidness of Rita Skeeter later on you would think that the magic world would have a thirst to know about Harry. Presumably the ministry intervened.
I was struck by how when I read it the first time those opening chapters reminded me of Roald Dahl I suppose for the basic plot set up of an unhappy child in an unhappy situation and a sudden magical solution. Now her world seems more her own.
I was also wondering about Harry. If the Dursleys had been a real family to him he might not have wanted to go with Hagrid.
I think Vernon may have been more quick to jump to there being funny-dressed people. After all, he did wear his most boring tie to work. :)
Remember that with owls, they only need give the name of a person at times and not the location. (Minor Book 7 SPOILER Perhaps Hedwig was simply a good owl.) Of course, you could very much be specifically refering to Hagrid, in which case I think that's a very good question!
I had similar thoughts. I wondered why the wizarding world, other than McGonagall expressing otherwise on pg. 19 of my PS copy, was so quick take it that a little baby had been what made Vodlemort vanish. (They were eager for life without the You-Know-What, but still. A baby!)
#1: I wonder if Vernon was just more sensitive to anything outside of "normal" than most. I think that, especially in a big city like London, there are enough oddly-dressed people that most people would assume that there was a convention or something, and think nothing more of it, if they noticed at all.
#2: Yes, and even Dedalus Diggle -- always a minor character, but he's mentioned throughout the book. I think that one of Rowling's great strengths is her strong characters, she really knows them, so even someone like Diggle isn't just a placeholder or a funny name -- he's a short, excitable fellow from Kent with a liking for bright purple clothes, and he's on the right side when it really matters.
#3: I'd never thought about that -- how they knew he was sleeping under the stairs. (Or at the hotel in Cokesworth, or in the cabin on the rock.) Maybe the letters were just enchanted to have the most specific address possible on them somehow.
#4: It would be interesting to know how the Wizarding world finds out about Muggle-Borns, especially since we now know that the Trace is how they detect underage magic. It seems that you'd have to know someone was capable of doing magic before they could have the Trace put on them.
#5: I'd also have thought that Dumbledore would have checked up on Harry periodically, even if he did so without Harry's knowledge, but it seems he didn't. I mean, I can see allowing things to go on if Harry was just being picked on by Dudley or whatever, but some of the Dursleys' treatment of Harry crossed the line into "abusive" and I would have thought someone from the Wizarding world would have wanted to deal with that, considering how important Harry was.
#6: Well, the house was pretty much destroyed, and there were a lot of Wizarding families in the area -- wasn't Bathilda right next door? And I don't think they knew specifics, just that Voldemort had tried to kill Harry and failed -- that he failed was obvious; but how they knew it was V and not just some Death Eaters, I'm not sure. You would think that conspiracy theories would abound -- but come to think of it, Hagrid mentions that pretty much everyone has a theory on what happened to Voldemort, whether he was dead, whether he would be back, etc.
#6 and #9 Doesn't it seem like the wizarding world is a little too eager to believe what they read in newspapers throughout the whole series?
I wonder also if the Dursley's had been a good family to Harry, would he have gone to wizard school, against their wishes?
Very good thoughts re Petunia and the letters. Now we know just how truly much that probably upset her! :)
Here's a small quote:
"His nose was long and crooked, as thought it had been broken at least twice." (PS 15)
We know from DH for one of the times Dumebledore's nose was broken, but I wondered about the other time(s). Also, I thought it amusing to see the likeliness Harry has with Dumbledore at age ten (nearly eleven): "He wore round glasses held together with a lot of Sellotape because of all the times Dudley had punched him on the nose." (PS 27)
Strange, since Harry is the subject of skepticism so many times during his Hogwarts career.
I like the similarities K
You know, I think I still looked at it with a muggle's perspective. ;)
Thank you. :)
Hagrid told Harry that he removed him from the ruins of his house, under Dumbledore's orders, but I get the feeling that Dumbledore was not there that day, or was he? I can't remember! And if he wasn't how was he sooooo damn well informed about everything that happened?
1. voldi shows up
2. kills James
3. kills Lilly
4 Tries to kill Harry
5. the spell bounces off Harry and destroys half the house and kills a piece of Voldies soul and his body.
so Hagrid got instructions from Dumbledore, he had to somehow get harry before the "please men" got there, Sirius was there because he lent his bike to Hagrid, told Hagrid he wouldn't need it anymore(but of course that's for another discussion thread). How were all these people able to respond so very quickly?
I know I've made zero sense here (nothing new) but I guess I'm just confused...
Makes sense to me, suge. Good questions. :)
I expected to learn that Dumbledore was at Godric's Hollow around the time of the event, but no. So I also still wonder, how was he so well informed?
He was the spitting imagine of James with Lily's eyes, of course. ;) LOL! Can you imagine a stalker? Hehe, thanks for that! :)
Macgonogall says: "The Potters son, Harry" (or something close I don't have the book with me) these were her intimate friends right? Maybe JK wrote that line for our benefit but the more natural line would have been if she called him "Harry", not the potter's son Harry
again maybe for our benefit: "young Sirius black lent it to me" instead of saying Sirius lent me his bike he says young Sirius Black like it is someone that they barely know.
Maybe I'm just griping here. Oh well...
#20 I think how the deaths of Harry's parents unfolded has always been a weak point. How does everyone know if no one was their? IF someone was their why didn't they help?
I assume they jumped into action quickly because their were alarm/protection enchantments around the home that alerted the Order.
#21 However wizards do share the need to keep themselves a secret from the rest of the world so stalking might be frowned upon . . .
Love the stalker idea, heehee!
I can justify McGonagall because she was their teacher and it may be she never lost the habit of calling them by their surname . . .
But all the wizard folk keep saying that "this is a great day" and "it'll be known as Harry Potter Day" like it just happened. And somehow everyone in the universe knows all about it.
My main question is what made McGonagall wait outside the Dursley's house all day. I really don't see a reason for that.
Plus we know (MILD SPOILER) the order can communicate with Patronuses.
The Harry Potter lexicon timeline points out that the 24 hours between the evening of the 31st and the 1st are missing.
I'd imagine they'd want to get Harry someplace safe and then there may have been an argument between Dumbledore and the ministry about what to do with Harry.
How McGonagall got her information about the Dursley's is a good question though.
Oh yeah, the Pettigrew thing. When was this supposed to have happened, anyway?
ETA: I guess the Pettigrew thing must have happened on 2 November? Of course, it all fits nicely if we assume that Hagrid picked up Harry on the night of the 31st and kept him for a day -- then the Sirius/Pettigrew showdown could have taken place on 1 November, and by that evening the Dursleys would have been the only logical people to take him to. It's also not evident how many people knew that Sirius was Harry's godfather, and as was pointed out in another thread, "godfather" and "guardian" are not quite the same thing -- I think that blood relatives would trump that, and we know that Dumbledore had reasons for wanting Harry to be with his mother's family.
Also the magic that protects Harry by living with a relative of his mother is never really explained but presumably the argument for why he has to live there.
A new McGonagall thought. Perhaps that is why Dumbledore chuckles to himself- she figure out where he would be and has been waiting. . .she is very clever.
Somehow, with everything else, Hagrid managed to get the message to McGonagall about Dumbledore being at the Dursley's. (pg 13) So, he must have decided pretty quickly what to do.
Although, reading between the lines, it looks like McG pumped Hagrid for info and he spilled like he always does. And it explains why she questions giving Hagrid the responsibility to retrieve Harry.
And we thought all the questions would be answered in DH!! Ha!
49 LG there is a pretty good timeline on the HP Lexicon site but it would be nice to have the diffinitive encyclopedia wouldn't it.
I have to feel sympathy for JKR can you imagine having scores of people scouring your work and pointing out inconsistencies.
1. First sign of Harry's compassion: how he feels sympathy for the snake in the zoo. Of course, he's pretty much in the same position, except without the idiots tapping on the glass.
2. On page 55 it says James was made Head Boy. A bit unlikely, since Lupin was the good one and a prefect!
and I know in other books they mention james as head boy as well
#52 I love the snake bit. Oh and I wish at some point in the series we got to see how James changed. I imagine he did after Lily and we didn't get to see the tranformation
I wonder if Lupin was passed over for similar reasons to Harry. I mean can you accomplish head boy duties if you have to disappear to the shrieking shack every month.
Something makes me think they did know, but I don't know if I'm mixing up the movies with the books.
Actually, discussing the book in light of what we know from later books is mostly what has made this thread so interesting.
polly, you should be proud of me that I held off of my sudden brainstorm about Goblet of Fire. I'll wait.
It is interesting that we never see the contents of the letter Dumbledore left with Harry. We don't know how much he chose to tell them. You would think he would tell them if he thought they would be put in danger too.
this is all from my very freakish memory
We get the putter outer and McGonagall transforming, we have Harry's hair and the glass at the zoo and the snake but then we get Hagrid and he is very magical.
I love the way stuff is always coming out of Hagrid's pockets. It isn't just a cake but sausages and tea and a kettle and pan.
I also think she is particularly good with descriptions of food.
I agree about the food, a harry potter feast makes me hungry!
and Hagrid is amusing with all that comes from his pockets!
Hermione's bag reminds me of Mary poppins bag too.
I noticed thru the whole series what a marvelous use of color JKR employed!
87--> Sure, haven't the "higher classes" always shunned the less fortunate?
I had black friends, get over it, Baptist bigots!
My own mother tho, has a preconceived idea that bothers me. I have olive skin, and she has said to me a few times "you're pretty for someone with dark skin" for someone with dark skin? Me own sweet mum!! But its not just her, my people can be so small minded sometimes.
My stepfather's grandmother tho, used to spit on the ground if ever she say a dark-skinned person.
Even if my parents had told me not to talk to kids with different features then mine I would have ignored them (like I do with almost anything). I hate people who are closed minded, and I hate people who act different because you look different. Like when people look at me and see my white skin and larger chest they assume I'm a moron and a (rhymes with witch) when I'm really just the second one!
I love how little kids trust each other ,not matter the different looks, we can learn stuff from kindergardener!
Sorry I got so distracted but it seemed important
hagrid said he flew to the hut on the rock. How do you think he did it?
Maybe Hagrid's magic pink umbrella flew him. Like Mary Poppins.
i tend to agree with threstrals or hippogriffs
Ok, then, I'll start. These four chapters are where I fell in love with the whole world of Harry. So much world-building!
So many things from Chapter 5 figure heavily in book 7.
Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak! is one of the most hilarious and intriguing introductions of any character in fiction. I believe they left it out of the movie, too. How stupid was that?
Do we want a new thread for these chapters (5-8), or shall we just continue here? I think that continuing was Polly's intention, but this thread could get really long if we use it for the whole book.
I also giggle at the stuff with the owl and the paper. For some reason I just laugh at harry has no clue whats going on
Other people have remarked that, in various books in the series, the story doesn't seem to really get started until they get to Hogwarts -- which can make DH drag on quite a bit, since they don't get there until near the end of the book. Hogwarts seems to "make" the series for a lot of people, maybe because Rowling does such a good job of expressing how much Harry loves the place.
One of the things I noticed in Chapter 8, is that Harry feels that Hagrid knows something about Snape that he's not telling. Now, obviously Hagrid knows a lot about Snape, including his Death Eater connections, and the fact that Dumbledore trusts him (as DD trusts Hagrid, for that matter). But one of the times that Harry gets this feeling is when he asks Hagrid why Snape would hate him (Harry) so much. Now, I'm guessing that Snape and Lily's childhood friendship was pretty much common knowledge -- but I do wonder how many people knew (or guessed) that Snape was in love with Lily, and if Hagrid was one of those people. Or did Hagrid just know of Snape's antagonism for James and the rest of the Marauders, and assume that was the reason Snape disliked Harry?
Well okay if we are ready for a new thread for discussion of chapters 5 thru 9 I'll go start it!
Ps: My friend went on www.youtube.com and found this cute video called "harry potter puppet pals: the misteriouse ticking noise?" with 17,757,149 viewers!
Snape, Snape, Severus Snape!
GO HARRY POTTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
Why is McGonagall able to sit on a wall all day on a school day? Even if they gave the kids a holiday, shouldn't she have been there since Dumbledore was probably running all over the country?
I'm pretty sure I had something else, but I can't think what it is right now.
grumble grumble resurrecting threads I missed while I'm not looking grumble grumble. :o)
and I guess Dumbledore knew what was important and what wasn't
Some days we talk so much I wouldn't be surprised to see 141 new messages in 5 minutes.
and i don't know, McGonagall tends to do things out of character. Besides they needed some way to start the story, but it wouldn't surprise me that McGonagall would be there.
Was Dumbledore head master 11 years prior
I did think about that too, the deputy headmistress thing. I still find it somewhat odd...like I said it was still just a rumor, she had to confirm it with Dumbledore. If she had to confirm it my guess is that classes would still be in session. So she didn't have to teach? (I'm assuming it was a school day because we know Vernon went to work that day and of course it was November.)
#156 I'm pretty sure Lupin was in the same class as James, Sirius, et al Yeah, because remember in OotP they're all in their OWL test together!
#156 -- LG, I'm almost certain that they were all in the same year. For one thing, it's implied in book 5 when Lupin and Sirius are talking about which of them got to be prefect, and Sirius says it was Lupin, rather than him or James.
Because Lupin says that no one woudl have made James a prefect, but he was one
anyhoo....how can you be too irresponsible to be a prefect in 5th year and head boy in 7th? That doesn't make any sense.
ETA: yay, I wanted to revive this thread a couple weeks ago when I first read it, but I hadn't started posting much yet and I thought it might be weird
I suspect that somewhere around his fifth or sixth year, James started to see what Voldemort was doing in the wider world, and as soon as he was or age, joined the Order of the Phoenix (in its first incarnation). I'm betting those experiences did a lot to help him grow up, as well as making him someone Lily could respect.
*whispers* I'm glad you're glad. I still felt a little weird doing it, but I really wanted to share my sudden insights and though since I could easily access this thread, it would be silly to start another one. :)