Group Read: The Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold

                 

We had a really successful Vorkosigan group read in 2014:
http://www.librarything.com/topic/160914

It was so successful that it kept on going throughout 2015! Instead of continuing with the 2014 thread, we have a new home for 2016.

Lois McMaster Bujold's new Vorkosigan novel, Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen, will be released in February, so there is fresh material for those of you who have already completed the entire series.

Here is information and links copied from the previous thread.

The Vorkosigan Saga is a series of science-fiction novels, novellas and short stories by Lois McMaster Bujold.

I can rave about this series myself, but Jo Walton says it so much better.

The number of books in this series may seem daunting, but you don't have to start at the beginning and work through the books in strict order. See Bujold's own recommendations regarding reading order.

Whether you are a long-time Bujold fan who's read everything she's written or trying her work for the first time, please join us for this continuing group read!

Related Links:

The list of books in publication order

The list of books in chronological order

Wiki page for this group read

The 2014 group read thread

Tor's reread of the Vorkosigan saga

Here is a copy of the post with recommendations on the order to read that Joe (jnwelch) made for me on his 75 thread. Joe is awesome!

Joe's (jnwelch) recommendation

Cordelia Naismith

Shards of Honor (1986)
Barrayar (1991)—Hugo Award winner, Locus Award winner, 1992, Nebula Award nominee, 1991
(Cordelia's Honor (1996)—Combined edition of Shards of Honor and Barrayar with an afterword by the author).

Miles Vorkosigan

The Warrior's Apprentice (1986)
Borders of Infinity (1989)
Brothers in Arms (1989)
The Vor Game (1990)
Mirror Dance (1994)
Cetaganda (1995)
Memory (1996)
Komarr (1998)
A Civil Campaign (1999)
Diplomatic Immunity (2002)
Winterfair Gifts (2008) (novella)
Cryoburn (2010)
Captain Vorpatril's Alliance (2012)

Other

Ethan of Athos (1986)
Falling Free (1988)

Reading the series in this order would work out well. As I mentioned, I read Warrior's Apprentice first, and then went back to Shards of Honor and Barrayar. I liked that because it was an immediate intro to Miles and let me know I'd want to read the rest. I'm sure that's why the bookseller recommended I start with that.

But Shards and Barrayar lead up to Warrior's Apprentice, and Cordelia is a wonderful character (just wait!) A lot of people, and the author, would recommend you read them first.

You could read the two "Other" ones (Ethan of Athos and Falling Free) anywhere in there, after you're a ways into the series, as far as I'm concerned. They're set in the same universe, and feature non-Vorkosigan characters.

Some folks would have you start with Falling Free, as it is first in time.

Some folks also mention Dreamweaver's Dilemma, a collection of short stories, most non-Vorkosigan. I haven't read it. I think the one Vorkosigan story in it is Mountains of Mourning (great story), which also is in Borders of Infinity, up above.

So that is Joe's recommendation :)

Of course we have the new one out!

I just finished reading my first book by Ms. Bujold: Falling Free. After receiving recommendations from others here, I found and purchased a copy of The Warrior's Apprentice from online. I found two more books at the used bookstore: The Vor Game and Young Miles. However, the latter apparently is an omnibus of two of the books I'd just bought. Oh well.

I guess The Warrior's Apprentice will be next to read...

>4 fuzzi: The omnibus does contain an extra novella, The Mountains of Mourning, which I liked very much. I'd recommend reading this after The Warrior's Apprentice and The Vor Game. Some of the characters make appearances in later books.

>5 mathgirl40: thanks for the recommendation. As I have a HUGE credit balance at the used book store, the duplication didn't really cost me anything.

Yay! New thread!

I'm taking my reading of the Saga slowly, partly to savour it, partly because a lot of them are re-reads, though this time I'm trying to go through in chronological order and fill in any gaps, and partly because I love the series and don't want it to come to an end - although Captain Vorpatril's Alliance and Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen are new additions to look forward to.

>6 fuzzi: How did you do that? Build up a balance, I mean.

ETA- editing merely to get the touchstones to kick in

>7 humouress: I did the balance over a year or two of culling (ouch!) and turning in duplicates that I had accumulated.

Ah - don't do culling, though I have got as far as starting a shelf of duplicates. I'll have to work on the next stage.

Sorry to go off topic. But there is a Miles book on that shelf. :0)

I have to do some culling, or I won't have room for more books...that does make sense, right?

Seriously (off topic, sorry), I've just been getting rid of books that I 1. probably will never read or 2. have read but probably will not reread or 3. I have not read, but can easily acquire from the library or online. The rare/hard-to-find and favorites stay!

I see that several LT members have cataloged Lois McMaster Bujold: Essays, a Critical Explorations book by Janet Brennan Croft. and only a few have added the Modern Masters of Science Fiction series title by Edward James Lois McMaster Bujold.

I'd like to order one or the other. Any feeling here for which might be superior?

Could someone link this thread to the wiki? Thanks in advance....

I just got the ARC Kindle edition of Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen as a Christmas gift for my mom (and hopefully I will get to read once she is done!). I am planning on rereading the 2 Cordelia books (Shards of Honor and Barrayar) via audiobook next year as well - perhaps before reading the new one although I don't know whether I will be able to wait!

I've read two books by Lois McMaster Bujold so far:

Falling Free (which I liked quite a bit)

and

The Warrior's Apprentice (which wasn't as good, rather meh)

I'm not going to let my second read keep me from trying another, so on to Cordelia's Honor I go, which is the omnibus of the highly recommended Shards of Honor and Barrayar.

>12 leslie.98: I've updated the Wiki. Thanks for the reminder. I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts on Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen when you get to it!

>13 fuzzi: I really enjoyed The Warrior's Apprentice and Shards of Honor, but they were Bujold's first books and they seemed to me much less polished, subtle and complex than her later books. I found a marked difference between Shards of Honor and Barrayar, so even if you end up not loving the first, I do hope you'll continue with the second.

One of the best things about The Warrior's Apprentice is the pacing of the action and how Miles' decisions make it all spin more out of control. Bujold was playing with it, blatantly imitating The Sorceror's Apprentice.

>14 mathgirl40: hey, I liked it, much more than The Warrior's Apprentice:

Shards of Honor by Lois McMaster Bujold

This is my third read by this author, and I was pleased with it in entirety: good characters, believable plot, and no pretentiousness...what's not to like?

>16 fuzzi: I flatly love the last two sentences of that book. What a distillation of Cordelia's soul, and to think that Aral recognized it.

>16 fuzzi: Glad to hear you liked it! I'll be interested in hearing what you think of Barrayar, when you get around to it.

>17 2wonderY: I agree!

I finished Memory a few days ago. Loved it! It's definitely a contender for my favourite of the series. I like the coming-of-age feel of the book (even though it's an older age than that covered by most coming-of-age books). I also love the fact that even minor characters have so much depth to them.

>18 mathgirl40: I borrowed Cordelia's Honor through ILL (interlibrary loan), so I started Barrayar this morning on the bus. I want to read it before I have to return the book.

Nothing like a due date to get one motivated?

>18 mathgirl40: I agree completely with your assessment of Memory.

I really have to jump back into this series! I've read the first several books: Shards of Honor, Barrayar, The Warrior's Apprentice, The Mountains of Mourning, and The Vor Game. All have been very enjoyable so far! Next up for me will be Cetaganda, in accordance with Bujold's recommended reading order. :)

>18 mathgirl40: I really liked Barrayar, here's my review:

This is a follow-up to Shards of Honor, and a good one at that. Intrigue and political in-fights turn into rebellion and an attempt to usurp the crown from a child-emperor. I delighted in how the characters were developed, and would like to read more stories about Cordelia and Aral.

I still have Falling Free and of course the new book to read and hope to get to them soon.

Through the gracious generosity of a friend, I got to read Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen in December. Fans of the series will thoroughly enjoy it - I suspect new readers will be a little mystified.

ETA: I also reread Falling Free for the first time - as many times as I've read the others, I can't imagine why I'd never reread it before.

I'll be following along here and hope to get in a couple reads during the year. When I join back in Cetaganda is next for me. One of our local libraries once had almost every book in the series as well as other Bujold's. Sometime in 2015 they decided to purge and almost all are gone and out of the catalog. I was so PO'd that they did this and that others won't be able to find this series there and enjoy. They held on to the fantasy books - hallowed Hunt etc. On the free cart of a small number of purged books was sitting the Omnibus of Miles Mystery and Mayhem which I rescued - it has Cetaganda, Labyrinth and Ethan of Athos in it. From the excellent condition it is in I will guess that it was rarely checked out over the years and that led to the purge. Makes me sad.

>25 RBeffa: Doesn't it feel like almost a secret society? I haven't yet gotten my children to read them.

>26 2wonderY: a little. I think it is more about libraries are changing and readers are changing. Miles doesn't seem like the thing my daughter would go for, but she's loved some of the other things I've introduced her to such as The Giver series and several others. I've pushed Cordelia at my wife several times and she has yet to bite. "You'll love this" I tell her, yet she's not believing. sigh. Maybe it is those crazy Baen covers.

Glad this is continuing into another year. I didn't read enough of the series last year and definitely want to get to a couple more of the omnibus editions if I can in this years challenge.

>27 RBeffa: I can't remember how I fell in love with Cordelia et al, since my preferred genre is Fantasy, but it could have been because I ran out of LMB's Chalion books. Have you tried her with those?

Right; what's next on my list?

ETA: note to self: looks like Memory is next, in case I forget again.

humouress wrote " ... looks like Memory is next, in case I forget again ..."

Hahahaha!

After starting with this group in 2014, and joining but not doing any reading in 2015, THIS YEAR I WILL ACTUALLY READ THESE BOOKS! Or at least get a few of them under my belt at the very least. Especially because I own almost the whole series, it's ridiculous that I'm still in the first book (per Joe's list) going on two years now - and I really am enjoying it too! I drive myself crazy sometimes. :)

>29 humouress: I have the first two Chalion books but have not read them myself. My wife rarely reads what I would call fantasy.

> 31 yea! I need to get my butt in gear on Cetaganda.

>31 LauraBrook: Good luck with your Vorkosigan reading this year!

Cryoburn is next up for me.

I got distracted by C.J. Cherryh's Fortress series. It's WONDERFUL.

Once those chunksters (I'm reading #4 of 5) are done, I'll head back to Miles and The Mountains of Mourning.

I have started rereading Shards of Honor via audiobook today. I read Cordelia's Honor several years before I got back into this series so it has been maybe 8-10 years since I read it first. Having now read most of the series, I am seeing this book in a different light now.

>35 leslie.98: It would be nice to hear your insights.

I've introduced a friend to delights of the Vorkosigan saga - or at least, she's downloaded a sample onto her Kindle. Unfortunately she's not on LT, but it's still a good thing :0)

>36 humouress: someone here also recently introduced me to Bujold's works, and I have enjoyed the Vorkosigan saga so far...four books in.

>36 humouress: I can't figure out how to link to my review but basically I said that while I still thought it was a great book, it lost some of tension coming to it after having read the rest of the series. I would say it went from being a 4.5* book to being a 4* book...

I've started re-reading the Vorkosigan saga in preparation for Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen! I'm currently reading Shards of Honor.

I just finished listening to the audiobook of Barrayar as my reread before diving into the new one. Unlike Shards, I thought this one even better this time even though I did know the outcome. I had forgotten how big a role Koudelka plays in this!

Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen was a fun reunion with some of our favorite characters, especially Cordelia. Not action-packed, but entertaining.

I am about a third of the way through Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen. I must say that I am struggling a bit with the ages of Aral, and now Cordelia, during their affairs with Oliver. Aral must have been in his 60s when Oliver was in his 20s and now Oliver is turning 50 and Cordelia is in her mid-70s. …

Could someone add Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen to the Wiki?

>42 leslie.98: But remember, Cordelia is Betan and gene-cleansed, she EXPECTS to live well into her second century. So I'd bet she looks, acts and feels like us natural-born plebians at 50 or even less.

>43 leslie.98: I tried, but can't see how to add it, sorry.

>43 leslie.98: Done!

>44 ronincats: Yes. That comes up in the book.

Thanks >46 mathgirl40:! I couldn't figure out how to do it either >45 fuzzi:.

>44 ronincats:, >47 jnwelch: True, it just creeps me out a bit.

Forgot to mention here that I've now read the 3rd omnibus edition Miles, Mystery & Mayhem containing Cetaganda, Ethan of Athos and Labyrinth.

I just finished Mirror Dance, a good link and an additional complication in the Vorkosigan story.

It's been awhile since I read one of the Vorkosigan books, but I really enjoyed Brothers In Arms and I am thinking that this book is pivotal in the series and I am looking forward to seeing what happens next.

I've started listening to Cryoburn on audiobook.

By the way, May is a great month to read more books from the Vorkosigan series, as "space opera" is May's SFFKIT theme:
http://www.librarything.com/topic/221244

>52 mathgirl40: I discovered that although I own the books in both print and Kindle format, the audiobooks narrated by Grover Gardner were my preferred way to 'read' these. Have fun listening!

I am listening to Captain vorpatril's Alliance right now. Early on, but of course I'm loving it.

I've just started Lois McMaster Bujold: Essays on a Modern Master of Science Fiction and Fantasy. It's making me want to start over and read the whole series again.

>55 hailelib: Well, why not?

I finished Captain Vorpatril's Alliance and I really enjoyed it. I've always loved "that idiot" Ivan and I am happy we had a story that spotlighted him.

^Ditto for me, Roberta.

Heading out for Cleveland, OH in the am, with a copy of Young Miles for the layovers. :)

For everyone who has completed the series, all the way through Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen, this is an excellent analysis of the series.

https://fozmeadows.wordpress.com/2016/04/24/gentleman-jole-and-the-vorkosigan-sa...

I'm listening to Gentleman Jole, so I have no cover blurbs to refer to. Is Cordelia the Red Queen? Can someone please explain the reference?

>61 2wonderY: Yes, Cordelia is the Red Queen. I forget why they call her that - I only remember it coming up once in the book. Someone else may be able to give the rationale.

My fifth Vorkosigan read has been completed:

The Mountains of Mourning by Lois McMaster Bujold

Miles is fresh out of academy, waiting to hear of his first assignment when a tearful woman begs entrance at Lord Vorkosigan's gate, crying for vengeance. Miles is assigned the task to investigate and judge the circumstances in his father's absence. A short read, but enjoyable.

>61 2wonderY: I just thought that the Red Queen was a reference to Cordelia's red hair...

Last day of April, and I have about 200 pages left in The Vor Game. However, I have a 3 hour layover (airport) later this afternoon, and suspect I'll be able to finish it then. So far, I'm enjoying it, as I have enjoyed the other books I've read by Lois McMaster Bujold.

I just discovered that the Tor site is doing a reread of the Vorkosigan series in chronological order:
http://www.tor.com/series/rereading-the-vorkosigan-saga/

They've already worked through Falling Free but have just started Shards of Honour. I've followed Leigh Butler's A Song of Ice and Fire read on Tor and enjoyed the analysis very much. Hopefully, Ellen Cheeseman-Meyer will do equally well with this series. Note that this "reread" assumes you've finished all the Vorkosigan books (except for Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen) so there will be spoilers.

>55 hailelib: If you are still thinking of rereading the entire series from the beginning, this is a great time to do so. :)

ETA: I've added the link to Tor's reread in the first post.

I'm finding Cordelia much more a fully fleshed out character in Gentleman Jole. We hear about her doubts and hesitations and needs more so than any of the middle books. I want to go back to Shards of Honor for comparison, but my daughter's house has eaten both it and Cordelia's Honor.

I'm about to give up trying to introduce my daughters to her.

I started reading Memory yesterday. Big changes ahead for Miles it looks like.

>67 2wonderY: Glad to hear that. I'm looking forward to Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen.

>68 dallenbaugh: Memory was one of my favourites from the series!

I finished Cryoburn and Falling Free and enjoyed both immensely. I thought beforehand that I might not like Falling Free as much, as it doesn't feature any of the familiar characters, but it didn't take long for me to embrace the new characters, especially the childlike Quaddies.

I've now read all the Vorkosigan books except Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen.

I'm waiting for a copy of Miles, Mystery, and Mayhem to arrive, so I can continue the series, starting with Cetaganda. Our public library does not have copies of most of the Vorkosigan books, so I'm having to buy them.

>66 mathgirl40: That sounds good, but if there are spoilers, I may give it a miss, since I haven't quite finished the series yet.

>67 2wonderY: Maybe if you demand your books back, she may start reading it??

>70 fuzzi: What a shame - not. ;0) I think they're a good investment. I have them on my shelves - I think I have the whole series now - and they're some of my favourite re-reads, even though I haven't read them all yet. I'm taking it slow so I can savour them.

Nina, there are spoilers possible for everything except the final book, so that might be wise.

Thanks Roni.

Ha! At daughter's house this morning and reached blindly into the bookshelf for a book to rest my mouse on. Shards of Honor. Anne speechless, as she had claimed it wasn't here.

I just finished Mirror Dance which is the tenth book in chronological order. This was my favorite book of the series so far.

What can I say, Judy? They just keep getting better!

>74 2wonderY: Haha! I hope you confiscated it ;0)

I have finally posted my review for Memory - which I actually read in February. As you can see, I'm a bit behind. I have finished Komarr, too, but still have to review it.

As part of a Labor Day weekend Read-a-thon, I started Miles, Mystery, and Mayhem last night. The first book in this omnibus is Cetaganda, and I'm enjoying it so far.

Cetaganda is read, and reviewed. Onwards!

I'm starting to feel the first twinges of a Miles craving. I may have to abandon the Komarr review and carry on.

>80 humouress: Just say it was wonderful (marvelous) and get a move on, Nina!

I'm glad to see that you're all still making progress with Vorkosigan reading. I haven't gotten to Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen yet, though I did finish another Bujold book (the novella Penric's Demon) in the meantime. I like her fantasy as much as her science fiction!

I'm reading Ethan of Athos (how did I wind up with two copies???).

Labyrinth has now been read and reviewed...

Help! What do I read next, the short story Borders of Infinity? Or Brothers in Arms?

Definitely Borders of Infinity, in either form, stand alone novella or in the larger work by the same name.

>86 2wonderY: okay, thanks. I've read two of the three short stories in the larger work, wasn't sure what was next.

Maybe I need more coffee...

>88 humouress: !!!!!!!!!!!!!

>88 humouress: Love it!

Great!

>88 humouress: LOVE!

Brothers in Arms has been completed...onward...

At Tor.com, they have just started the re-read of The Vor Game, having finished The Warrior's Apprentice.

>93 fuzzi: Are you reading Mirror Dance next? That is possibly my favourite of the series. (I agree with >75 DeltaQueen50: in that respect!)

>94 ronincats: Is anyone following the Tor re-read? I haven't been following this one, just because the timing didn't match well with my own reading of the series. I've enjoyed other Tor reads/re-reads, though.

I just finished Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen and enjoyed it very much, though it is quite different from the last few Miles books I'd read. There's not a lot of action but there are plenty of thought-provoking ideas and some very funny moments.

So I am done with my Vorkosigan read ... for now. I'm sure I'll be ready for a re-read in a little while, but I'd like to read more of Bujold's fantasy novels first.

Yes, I've been reading the summaries and comments from Shards of Honor through Barrayar and The Warrior's Apprentice although not rereading the books myself, as they are pretty clear in my memory.

Congrats of finishing the series! I love the Vorkosigans, but I also really, really love the World of Five Gods books as well, with the first two being among my top favorite fantasy books.

>95 mathgirl40: yes, I found that one and Memory at the library, and plan to continue reading the books in chronological order.

Thought y'all might enjoy this interview between Lois and Miles:

http://www.unclehugo.com/prod/ah-bujold-lois-more.php

>98 2wonderY: Fun! Thank you.

Yes, fun. Obviously dated before Cryoburn came out.

>98 2wonderY: oops! Looks like I'll have to save reading the rest of that until I get more Miles' books read...

>98 2wonderY: That's hilarious! Thanks

So ... the year-long Vorkosigan group read turned into a three-year event. I'd call that a success! :)

What would you all like to do for 2017? Is it time to retire this group read? We can continue Vorkosigan reading within the 2017 SFFKIT, for instance, since the books fit well into many of the planned categories. On the other hand, it's not much trouble for me to throw up a new thread in the 2017 group, if there's enough interest to warrant it.

I'm done with my own Vorkosigan reading for now, but I still enjoy reading the comments in this thread and participating when I have something to add.

ETA: Another possibility is to move this thread to a permanent place where it might fit better, such as one of the SFF groups. I'd prefer if someone active in that group were to create the thread and host, though I'd still continue to participate.

>103 mathgirl40: I didn't start reading the Vorkosigan saga until this year, when someone steered me here. I've enjoyed the discussions here, and continue to read my way through the series.

I'd like to have this thread continued in some form, but am not active in any SFF group except the KIT, so I wouldn't be the best pick to host.

>103 mathgirl40: I still have the newest one to read and I want to read Falling Free. I don't mind continuing in this thread or starting a new thread. Truly up to you.

ETA: It might make the most sense to just continue this here. I search for dormant threads all the time when I'm starting a new book or series. This would still make the most sense if someone new is using the search feature on LT.

I am also continuing on with my Vorkosigan reading next year so I would love to see the thread on-going.

It sounds like there is enough interest to keep the thread going. Let's do a quick poll:"Yes" means we should create a new thread, copying over the general information in the first few posts. "No" means we carry on here.

I've finished my Vorkosigan read, but I still like lurking here and seeing what people think.

I voted "no" as I am done with my Vorkosigan read - I have revisited a few during this period but am unlikely to do so next year. I think folding it into some SF/Fantasy group or the SFFFKit is best but whatever is decided is fine with me...

I voted "undecided" because I don't see the need to make a new thread, just continue this one. It's only 100ish posts long so far.

>108 kgodey: >109 leslie.98: >110 fuzzi: Thanks for your comments. I'll wait a few more days in case more people drop in to vote or decide to change their votes.

There is one argument I'd make for starting a new thread in the 2017 group. It might attract new participants, whereas this current thread will be harder for people to find.

>110 fuzzi: I did the same thing. I'll go with whatever is decided.

I'm very comfortable with leaving this thread active--I have it starred and anytime someone posts on it, it'll show up on my Talk page. That said, you are right about attracting new members. However, if the Category Challenge group page has a wiki like the 75ers do, this thread could be linked there, or in the general SFF thread, the link could be posted.

>113 ronincats: I found this thread through someone else linking to it, I think in a TIOLI challenge. Or maybe it was the SFF KIT thread...I forget...

I added the author name to the "about" box, so this discussion shows up on her author page on the right column.

>115 2wonderY: thank you!!!!

>115 2wonderY: Thanks!

>115 2wonderY: Another feature of LT that I didn't know about. Thank you!

The poll in >107 mathgirl40: tells me that more people would like a new thread, so here it is:
http://www.librarything.com/topic/243884

Enjoy!

Okay Vorkoverse fans - I need help.

I've read Prologue to Diplomatic Immunity, but I can't recall where it is published. And why does it not have it's own title? That's an oddity.
My copy of Diplomatic Immunity lacks this prologue, so perhaps in the audio version?

This is where Russo Gupta wakens from an illness in his life tank, and finds the rest of the crew horribly dissolved. It serves to explain his actions in the book.

>120 2wonderY: I've checked on isfdb and nothing comes up with that title. However on checking the individual editions for Diplomatic Immunity there were some that included an essay entitled Miles Naismith Vorkosigan: His Universe and Times (no touchstone for this individually). Also included in the omnibus edition of Miles, Mutants and Microbes. Doesn't sound like the one you're after though.

On checking Wikipedia it notes that: Prologue chapter which Bujold wrote, but decided to exclude from the published text. It can be found online here.

>121 AHS-Wolfy: Wow! Thanks for your work on that. Perhaps I did read it from online.

Thanks for this exchange and the link. I didn't know about that Prologue, and enjoyed reading it.

>120 2wonderY: Thanks for telling us about the prologue and >121 AHS-Wolfy:, thanks for the link!