Order of the Phoenix chapters 5-8 discussion
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5: The Order of the Phoenix
6: The Noble and Most Ancient House of Black
7: The Ministry of Magic
8: The Hearing
Talk, talk, talk!
I could just fall back to my favorite pasttime of harping on the movie! I remember being pretty disappointed by the scene where everything gets explained, they didn't even send Ginny to bed did they? Also what was up with the "tapestry" what they show is soooo not what is in my head!
Okay...I know I have way more to talk about...give me a few minutes to collect my thoughts.
Also, does the whole trial time-change thing bother anyone else? I guess I'm so used to a democratic system with the checks and balances but how is that even legal? In the muggle world it would be an instant appeal if something like that was pulled!
Anyhoo. I also pictured the ministry differently, but I like the way they did it in the movie. SPOILER Didn't like that the statue didn't help in the end END OF SPOILER. The giant picture of Fudge was brilliant. I find it ironic that the powers that be are publicly in denial of evil, when IRL leaders often hype up the enemy's supposed power or imminent attack. This book was written post-911, and although it flips that detail, it shows.
I love the Hearing because it makes me so mad. I think one of the reasons this book is my favorite is because it evokes so many emotions...I cry, laugh out loud, and occasionally feel like throwing the book across the room (Umbridge!) I love when a book, movie, or TV show gives me the opportunity to run through the gamut of human emotion. Plus I just love to hate Umbridge. I think she makes it easier than any other character becuase we don't know any back story to her, so I don't have to feel bad for her. My liberal guilt doesn't say "Yeah shes horrible but look at her childhood..." She's one of the few one-dimensional characters in the HP world and I think that it was done purposely. What does everyone else say?
Yes, I do think not humanizing Umbridge was a purposeful decision. And it works.
On pge 87 (US ed.), Sirius is the first one to bring up Harry asking questions about Voldy. Instigator! (I love him.)
Regulus Black is not in the movie!
Ron gets caught in some purple robes...foreshadowing for SPOILER the brains?
Sirius isn't the only one that's mean to Kreacher. He's pretty difficult & despicable. They really don't do enough with him in the movie (especially SPOILER Harry not contacting him and having him lie about Sirius! Ugh I hate that being left out.)
Sorry about all the spoilers. I suck.
#3 -- About the time of the trial: I think that the Wizarding way of doing things is less formal in some ways, because it's a smaller community. I think that it's very bureaucratic, but I think there are less limitations on the power of high officials. I mean, you can look at Umbridge, later in the book, for an example. On the flip side, you can look at the power that Dumbledore has always had at Hogwarts. I'm not sure if I'm saying this clearly, but it's the best I can do at the moment.
#4 -- The first time I went to see the movie in the theater, the friend I was with was livid about your spoiler!
#5 -- Yes, Umbridge is one-dimensional. I also think it's interesting that (SPOILER) she's not at any point overtly aligned with Voldemort, though their agendas pretty much match up. She's just mean. (end SPOILER)
#6 -- And you forgot the brisk, efficient, but not particularly likeable (Grubbly-Plank). ;-)
#8 -- I think it was Fudge, the scumball. Umbridge took her cues from him. I'm sure that when Fudge was being fatherly and protective toward Harry in books 3 and 4, if we had seen Umbridge then, she would have been overly sweet and pleasant to Harry. Correlation: Umbridge is to Fudge as Bellatrix is to Voldemort? What do you think?
#10 -- Yeah, Kreacher is hard to like, and even Hermione has a hard time being nice to him, I think, though she wants to be nice to him, as he is an Oppressed House-Elf. Lesson for Hermione: social causes are pretty much always like this. You will have the touchingly grateful (Dobby), the unappreciative though needy (Winky), and the downright unpleasant (Kreacher). And everything in between. (I've been there.)
I never really understood what having the prophecy itself was supposed to give Voldy. He already knew what it said. And it had already happened, pretty much.
#12 Now that I think about it, you might be right. The order was guarding it, and I always just assumed that they knew what it was they were guarding...but (SPOILER) events in subsequent books; i.e. all the "chosen one" rumors do start to make me wonder if all DD said was "guard the department of mysteries there's something in there Voldy wants". Does anyone remember where in the Department of Mysteries Mr. Weasley was when he was attacked? (end SPOILER)
#11 I'd forgotten about Phineas Nigellus being blasted off the WALLPAPER (sorry, not yelling at you, but the filmmakers!) in the movie. I got some gift cards for my birthday...maybe I'll use that to get the movie, pretend someone else gave it to me and then I won't feel like I wasted my own money on a movie I hate...
#10 After seeing the movie one of the first things I thought was why did they even bother putting Kreacher in at all? Then of course DH came out.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but Dung wasn't in this movie either so what I'm wondering is...(SPOILER) how are they going to deal with the locket in the DH movie(s)?! (end SPOILER)
But DD was the one who heard the prophecy. If there was a reason to guard it, which I can't see, he would be telling the Order to do so.
And c'mon....why were they making such a big deal about keeping "the truth" from Harry? Like he doesn't already know that Voldy is after him. It's a simple step to it being a fight to the death.
More reasons this is my least favourite book...sigh...
Another thought....why not get Harry to get it down and then destroy it? I mean, DD heard it and everyone in the Order already knows what it says anyway. A life could have been saved. I just don't get it.
SPOILER AHEAD: Every time I've read this book after DH (yep, it's been multiple times already) I'm struck by the mention of the locket...it doesn't even get a whole sentence. It's simply part of a list of weird stuff they find and yet I remember it as being much bigger.
Actually that kind of goes along with the whole movie-in-the-head thing. Because JKR's prose so easily lends itself to creating a visual image for me, every word gets heightened and the things that are small if you simply look at the page become magnified by the image. Does that make sense? Does anyone else read these books this way? Or am I crazy?!
Either way, she was trying to win favour with the ministry admininstration. MORE SPOILERAGE And it worked. Do we really think Fudge didn't know she sent the dementors when he made her High Inquisitor?
Is it even possible to discuss this book without spoilage?
*WARNING, if you have not read all 7 books, watch out for flying spoilers*
What I wonder is how much and what she believes. (I'm just talking for this book now, not DH). Do you think she truly believes Harry is horrible? I mean in the way Fudge wants him to be, obviously she'd have issues with his "half-breed" friendships but if she truly thought that he was all things they try to make him out to be than she wouldn't have had to send the Dementors in the first place.
I vote for some sort of overall SPOILER notice. Lurk at your own risk!
I think that the original idea (if I can remember that far back) was that the group read would be accessible even to first-time readers. In reality, I don't think we've had those. And, as LG said on another thread, this far after the release of the seventh book, if someone is hanging around a HP site who hasn't read the books, they can't blame the "regulars" for a bit of spoilerage.
Same thing for me.
That's probably a very good idea.
Oh, good! :)
I agree - enter at your own risk. Pre 07/21 many of us began disappearing till our reading of DH for such a reason.
I'm having an odd experience reading OotP this time around. Normally it's all very loud when Harry is shouting, but for some reason right now I'm imagining his shouting as quieter. An oddity indeed.
Thanks, I'm glad I'm not the only one!
I think that shouting (I believe I've seen it called the CAPS-LOCK-OF-RAGE) gets less and less annoying each time I read it. Now I don't even notice it.
Brits are more reserved, but when they blow....watch out! (I used to live with an Englishman.)
I'm so ridiculously happy to have people to say these things I think to. (Wow, that was some bad grammar but I'm not sure how to fix it.)
You're welcome. I like the name for the uppercaps screaming.
"I 'gree with Sirius..." I mean, I agree with Biblio and LG about Harry's screaming bothering me less, and noticing it less often.
Perhaps so! That could be a very good reason why.
I haven't been in the group readings much, but welcome Biblio! :)
Each LTer may edit their posts by clicking on the little pencil to the right of our messages. :)
LG, was the Englishman Hot or did you live with a LEG: Lukewarm English Guy?
Thanks, I probably could have figured that out eventually...but then I have been trying to figure it out for 2 weeks already!
I must admit, this is the first time that I've been at all interested in posting so this whole thing is pretty new to me!
LOL! Too bad she doesn't read the group read threads. ;)
You're welcome! I'm glad we could increase your new addiction to LT! Welcome aboard! :)
Teehee! I was talking to my dad and told him that somehow our discussion of Chapters 5-8 had devolved to a discussion of U.S. Southern accents. He was intrigued!
(See what I did there? Back to topic!)
(Yes, that was great! :)
Harry Potter books have not affected my speech, however. Perhaps the UK ones on my spelling, though ('realise' instead of 'realize').
There's a lot of Scots in The Five Red Herrings by Dorothy Sayers, and I remember my Dad saying something similar about how it made for difficult reading.