Folio Society Delivery Changes

Excerpt below from their Facebook page:

We have some sad news – unfortunately, from 1 July 2021, we will no longer be able to sell and deliver books to some EU countries. We will continue to sell to 10 EU countries*, but from 1 July 2021 we will only be able to send your orders via our express courier service with all taxes and duties paid at the point of sale. (*Full list of countries in image.)

This is not a decision we have taken lightly. We are very proud that Folio books are read and enjoyed around the globe and consider ourselves very lucky to have served some great customers and made good friends throughout the EU for many years.

Following the UK’s exit from the European Union on 1 January 2021 and the end of the transition arrangement on the 30 June, the new rules mean that we have to register for VAT in every country we sell to. The increased administrative burden and cost of this means that as a small business, sadly, we cannot affordably continue to trade in these countries.

We will constantly review the situation and will keep our website updated with any developments, but for now we can only apologise for the disappointment and distress that this will cause. We are deeply saddened to be in this situation.

Who could have possibly forseen this? Although I imagine the overlap between Folio Society members and those voting for this scenario are few and far between.

Very sad for those in the countries that will no longer receive service (and to those forced to use express).

I feel so bad for people in those countries that are collectors of FS books and are now being cut off because of Brexit. There are some heartbroken people on social media expressing their thoughts, many who have collected for years and others who have just started and now will not be able to finish certain sets, etc.. I live in the US and I don't understand how all of this works or why even, as we don't pay duties on things, but if this ever happened and I could not buy books or anything else from the UK I would be livid. They need to find a way around this or so many businesses are going to under and the UK is really going to suffer severely.

I never understood why they left the EU anyhow. Why would anyone vote for Brexit anyhow? I don't mean this rudely. I just don't get it. We had some sad family situations going on when all this was in the news and just didn't have time to stay on top of it to know what was going on, other than I knew the UK was going back to pounds etc., instead of Eurodollars. I assume it was about a lot more.

I was angry when I received an email telling me that in the future I could only order via express shipping. I guess I'm comparatively lucky. It looks to me like they might keep up the trade with countries they sell enough to, but not the rest. There are always forwarding services, but what a mess.

>4 Lady19thC: The belief of many Brexiteers was that they could be free of some of the negative effects of globalization without losing the positive effects of global trade. The result of this thinking can already be seen in this case. Small to medium companies will struggle while the larger companies will do as they have always done and thrive.

>4 Lady19thC:

One could wish that FS just established a branch or something of the sort in the EU. I read that the UK government actually recommended this to other businesses facing serious problems because trade with the EU has become so problematic after Brexit. With quite a few of their books being produced in the EU, it might actually save a lot of paperwork and fees in that regard.

>6 L.Bloom:

That's true and very frustrating. With large companies like amazon paying the duties in advance, it makes shopping so much easier and cheaper than buying from smaller companies, publishers etc. now. I used to try and support the smaller ones and avoided amazon and co. when possible, but with what the German government and postal service charge for each package in such a case it just gets too expensive.

I feel terrible for those customers that are suddenly cut off. I think Folio should of given the customers affected more forewarning on this (especially the countries now cut off) as for many this will seem out of the blue.

>8 SF-72: With large companies like amazon paying the duties in advance, it makes shopping so much easier and cheaper than buying from smaller companies, publishers etc. now.

Uhm, from july 1st, you'll pay your duties in advance with FS just like you do with Amazon now. And that goes for all the other small companies and publishers also I guess, since they will be obliged to from july 1st.
So I expect it to be easier, faster and hopefully cheaper from then on. 31 GBP for two or more books will be cheaper then normal shipping plus the administrative costs that we get charged now.
I haven't ordered with FS anymore since jan 1st and waited for july 1st.

Take a moment to cease from hearsay and speculation and look up the VAT rules and legislation process and incorporation.

This is not the Folio Society's fault or Brexit (although yes, one can argue Freedom of movement of Goods has ceased now that we are outside the EU). Some years ago when I was living in Denmark they passed a law on moms (VAT) that required business not domiciled in Denmark but selling to Denmark to register for VAT. EU countries are able to deal and legislate on VAT themselves, lowering and increasing their thresholds/rates without the need for EU hence the reason you have different VAT rates around the continent.

The reason Folio has ceased is because those countries, in order to boost their coffers, are requiring business that sell goods to their country, in case books, above a certain threshold, to register for VAT and this can become an administrative nightmare and financial burden, which is the reason why it's easier to just stop selling to them.

Brexit drinking game: Take a sip every time someone debating Brexit generalises, belittles or insults their opposition.

(Fortunately LT seems too civilised for this!)

I received this e-mail from FS today (I'm in the Republic of Ireland) and was not surprised. We have been aware for some time that this was coming on July 1st.

The sad part of all of this is that customers in seventeen European countries can no longer buy from the FS. Without knowing the number of customers they have in these countries and the volume of Sales to these customers it is difficult to judge the impact of this change but I'm sure no company wants this to happen.

The bottom line is that I will no longer buy direct from FS but will concentrate on the second hand market. I'm sure that I am not alone on this. There will be many more companies like FS that will lose customers as a result of this.

I wonder how much of this was expected by those advocating for the UK to leave the EU? and what will be the consequences for those smaller companies?

I tried to order today and this is what I get at checkout.



Edited to add image above.

>11 ironjaw: The reason Folio has ceased is because those countries, in order to boost their coffers, are requiring business that sell goods to their country, in case books, above a certain threshold, to register for VAT and this can become an administrative nightmare and financial burden, which is the reason why it's easier to just stop selling to them.

Sorry to intervene, but have you read the announcement? They are clearly stating that this change was precisely caused by Brexit. As a resident of one of the countries they no longer ship to, I received an almost identical message in the mail.

Forgive me if there is something I don’t understand about VATs, but it sounds similar to what we in the U.S. call a sales tax. Most states have such a tax usually varying between 3% and 8% which is charged to the purchaser on every sale, and many cities and counties add a small amount onto this. Several years ago states began assessing this tax on purchases made from out-of-state vendors, such as Amazon. Small companies screamed that they could not possibly compute this tax for every state and municipality, but computer programs were quickly developed that did the calculation automatically, charged the purchaser, and remitted the tax to the appropriate state. Now it seems to work smoothly. Is there a reason something similar could not be developed in Europe?

>13 N11284: Odd that you say how sad you are about customers who will no longer be allowed to purchase due to these VAT regulations, then in the next sentence say that you yourself will choose to no longer purchase books from Folio even though your country is one they are continuing to ship to (so this technically doesn’t affect you other than the requirement to use express delivery). I can only assume your only objection is to paying for express delivery ?

As well as Express delivery we will have to pay duties. And I resent having to pay extra for delivery when as a Customer for over 12 years I was able to select Standard delivery.

>11 ironjaw: Faisal, the Folio Society are explicit in their message that this is very much the fault of Brexit.

>17 N11284: Surely duties only apply to orders over €150 (the same as Amazon etc have been doing for the past month or so in charging VAT/duties/currency guarantee charges on orders over €150) & books themselves have zero import duty when shipped from UK to Ireland ?

>14 vegaz: No need to apologise.

Yes, I've read the announcement and I have a working knowledge of EU law and EU competition law having represented Denmark at the Commission, but I can see we both are lawyers. What I suggest is that you can familiarise yourself with your country's VAT laws and, although I am not aware where you are domiciled, I believe it will be the same story regardless where you are on the continent as I mentioned above. The problem is two fold: (a) Freedom of movement of goods ceased due to the exit of the European Union thus enforcement of import and customs; b) local VAT laws set by national governments where a company not domiciled sells goods. Both taking into consideration, a company can assess the financial risk whether it wants to take the exposure or not, Amazon for example is large enough to dilute the cost, whereas Folio is unable to.

>19 antinous_in_london: I was under that impression as well but I could be wrong.

>17 N11284: Taken from Moneyguide Ireland website:

Calculation of Import Duty on Orders over €150
When an order from the UK has a value of more than €150 – then customs duty might apply, depending on the items.
If the product’s country of origin is the UK – then there will be NO customs/import duty.
The rate of import duty will vary according to the category of product.
Many products have a zero rate of duty. (See below for examples)
Some products, such as trainers made in China, for example, will have a rate as high as 16.9% rate.

Some Examples of Items that can be imported to Ireland with NO Import Duty
Here are some examples of goods sold from the UK (or anywhere else) that can be imported duty-free into Ireland regardless of the country of origin.

* Books

I only rechecked this when you mentioned it above as I had not looked at it since the start of the year when I thought it was kicking in. I thought up to checking it now that books were included in the €150 or over import duty.

Amazon tends to run on a national basis, so they don't for example deliver to France from amazon.de or Germany from amazon.fr. Of course they then move the profit to the lowest corporation tax they can get away with.

Folio's problem is the change in VAT rules requiring separate registration in each market.

>15 jroger1:
VAT is more complex than sales tax, since it is a tax on all stages in the production of goods etc., each stage pays VAT, and deducts VAT on input costs until the final sale to the customer

FS has had a problem with VAT in Canada for years. As a company doing a certain amount of business, they are obliged to deduct the tax at source on the price of books and postage. Although their parcels clearly show the tax has been paid, the clothheads at Canadian Customs will occasionally charge it a second time. Since appealing the overcharge is usually futile, FS will reimburse the customer, and inevitably raise prices for Canadians.
However on book parcels from other companies, including Book Depository, Customs will rarely charge VAT on anything under $100 because the game isn't worth the candle; the less than $5 in taxes doesn't cover the cost of collection. You have a sporting chance of not paying VAT on books of higher value, especially if the vendor shows a lower amount on the declaration. I've never paid tax on any book sent from abroad through Canada Post, other than FS.
That's on books sent through Royal Mail -- Canada Post. Couriers such as Fedex invariably present all parcels to Customs no matter how low the price. Last week I received a letter(!) from Fedex with a demand for $2.47 they had paid Customs on my behalf, together with a $10 fee for so doing. You have to weigh if courier speed justifies the extra cost and paperwork.
Of course all this is unfair to Canadian booksellers, who cannot avoid the tax, though some will hide the tax in the cost of the book.
In short, VAT on foreign companies is an unworkable farce, unless you're willing to hire a large army of pensioned and unionised civil servants to enforce it -- or victimise a few honest companies such as FS by forcing the to be unpaid civil servants.

>23 Jayked: Yes, this pretty much sums up my decade long frustration with the Danish Post Denmark and 25% VAT and handling fees. Separate registration is a nightmare.

Luckily, we do not pay customs duty or VAT on books for our own private use in Norway. So no change for us. But then again, we’re not part of the EU either…

>10 joco30: "Uhm, from july 1st, you'll pay your duties in advance with FS just like you do with Amazon now. And that goes for all the other small companies and publishers also I guess, since they will be obliged to from july 1st."

No, actually. This system has been on place for several years and the UK just wasn't affected until now. The way it was explained here when it was introduced, companies have to register and pay VAT to each separate EU country only if they sell enough here. FS are large enough to be affected, but many smaller sellers or publishers aren't. They don't charge it all in advance, but the buyer has to pay when the goods are in one's own country. It doesn't affect private sellers, let's say on ebay or amazon marketplace or a lot of smaller publishers I've bought from outside Europe. This system turned out to be problematic right when it started because quite a few sellers on Abebooks refused to do this and stopped selling to my country. Large companies like amazon, since this year Bookdepository, or now FS charge the tax / customs fees when you buy and that's it. Some only charge the actual cost, Ebay's Global Shipping Service adds fantasy fees, e. g. 79 Pounds in tax when it's actually only 25 Pounds. I stopped buying from sellers who use this as a result. With unregistered sellers, I have to pay not just the tax, but extra fees because for several years now it's not been customs charging the VAT and duties, but they almost completely left this to our local shipping service, which has turned it into a business with generous fees. They also overcharge a lot because they don't really know or apply the tax / customs laws. Before Brexit and now / in July the complete removal of a threshold below which no VAT or customs were due, one could still make small purchases without this kind of rip off. Now this will become so expensive that buying from the bigger fish that do take care of this in advance will be much cheaper and less hassle. With the exception of Ebay, of course. It will be interesting to see if FS 'just' charge the actual tax and the higher express shipping fee or extra on top of it, for example the current DHL express fee of about 15 Euros for each package.

I’m not up on all the details here so I might be off base, but from what I can tell the “new rules” are rules set by the importing EU nations (the destination countries), not the UK.

So unhappy customers in such destination countries should be complaining to those in the destination country responsible for onerous customs bureaucracy.

Really, the economics of customs and duties is supposed to operate at the level of international trade, not the level of individual purchases. One could Gordian knot the whole issue by setting a low to mid level threshold on value of shipments that should be subject to such constraints (something around $1000 USD would probably be reasonable). No international trade happens at sums of magnitude that low. It’s not a perfect solution but would fix a lot of problems.

If Neo-Dante wrote Neo-Inferno, there would be a special circle of hell for the person (or, more likely, committee) that developed the concept of value-added tax. Stupidest approach to taxation ever.

Notes: I am in Canada so I have no immediate dogs in this tussle. I am not anti-tax. I feel for the customers so affected.

>25 Dr.Fiddy: As someone from Denmark, now living in the UK I've always seen Norway as beacon of light and smarter than us Danes especially when it comes to books. There is no reason to add VAT on books or to tax education, I think that was the discussion in Norway at the time, when I was researching this issue so many years ago when I was disgruntled, vexed and very upset on the Danish tax authority. It was generally very prohibitive to buy books with the handling fee, VAT and other fees I was paying up to 40% on top of the full purchase price. This means they added the tax on top of the shipping amount as well which I thought was so stupid. Only the book itself should be subject to the tax but no the total amount so I was very upset at this but nothing changed regardless of my appeals Denmark is a heavy tax burdened country.

Another unrelated example is that I privately bought a Hermes 3000 typewriter for 200 EUR on Ebay and paid 50 EUR for shipping from France (250 EUR total) and paid £40.54 in custom charges upon arrival to the U.K. paid to the courier DPD. It sucks both ways.

>27 abysswalker: It is indeed an EU law, though it would not apply to the UK if not for Brexit. The law was passed while the UK was still a member and the UK implemented the exact same rule in January while the EU decided to delay the implementation to July.

I'd rather pay VAT at purchase than at delivery, but it's sad that so many country are now "banned".

I received the e-mail with the header ‘important notice’ this afternoon and even for a moment feared for the continuation of FS itself. As it stands I live in one of the ‘lucky’ ten countries inside the EU. Still, it will be a massive uptick in the shipping costs including taxes and fees. It will lead me to becoming an infrequent buyer, now that the Sales are tapering off. I used to order three, to four times a year. I now will pool all the titles of interest over a yearly period and order only when the total sum is palatable. It sure takes out the fun!

I'm trying to decide if it's worse to be in one of those countries that FS will no longer serve, or to be in the U.S. where, thanks to FedEx, the packages just never arrive. 38 days in transit so far. 11 days since the last entry in the tracking history. 0 help from FedEx customer support.

So if the EU nations charged zero VAT on books, like in the UK, this would not actually be a problem?

The EU has changed the VAT collection and registration rules for goods travelling from one country to another. This is an EU rule change that applies to all EU countries, it even effects transactions between one EU country and another. It has very little to do with Brexit per se.

To quote from the EU website:
"Cross-border VAT e-commerce is being modernised in the EU. We are making life simpler and fairer for all. The new rules will come into force on 1 July 2021"
"Everyone in the e-commerce supply chain is affected, from online sellers and marketplaces/platforms both inside and outside the EU, to postal operators and couriers, customs and tax administrations, right through to consumers."
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/vat-e-commerce_en

The Folio Society presumably now finds it is not financially viable to register and pay tax in each of the smaller EU countries (smaller in terms of Folio sales that is). Hopefully, some other way of distributing Folio books to EU countries can be found to limit the damage.

>33 InVitrio: I believe that is accurate.

>4 Lady19thC:
other than I knew the UK was going back to pounds etc., instead of Eurodollars.
The UK never went over to Euros - we retained £ sterling throughout our membership of the EU.

I never understood why they left the EU anyhow. Why would anyone vote for Brexit anyhow?
For any number of reasons, some specious, some not, some not even related to the EU at all. It's certainly left the UK more divided than ever before, at least in living memory (and there have been times when we have been very divided!). Personally, I think we might pull it together sometime, but I can't see any chance of it happening under the the current administration.

This looks like an opportunity for someone in the UK to set up a home business buying FS books in Sterling and then forwarding them to customers in countries not serviced by the FS for a small fee. Even for Americans, Canadians and Australians, such a service would be beneficial as buying the more expensive FS books is far cheaper in Sterling than in local currencies.

>4 Lady19thC: as others have said, Brexit was only partly about the EU itself. It was as much a slap in the face for the political elite which even as a remain voter I have to say they brought on themselves entirely.

The UK has voting system which means a huge number of people’s votes are meaningless, and in addition the political class don’t represent the views of the majority of the public. The fact it was such a shock to so many politicians demonstrates this.

A referendum meant that everyone’s vote was counted and contributed to the ultimate result. People saw it as a way to finally be heard.

Also the idea that Britain is an outlier is a myth. In most EU countries opinion polls have often show people wanting to leave at a 25-40% depending on the country and what is happening at the time. E.g. the Greek debt crisis it was over 50%.

I think that this news (alongside a more subdued sale) will be positive for Folio second hand sales, and support some of the prices on eBay.

>39 DMulvee: eBay.co.uk hasn’t been a viable option for me since the separation. The added costs sometimes outweigh the book price and shipping combined. My guess is that the Folio secondhand market will fragment. You already see this happening in North America, UK and now buyers will follow from the European Union.

>38 Uppernorwood:
I'd obviously recognised the anti-political elite aspect of the Brexit vote, but never really thought it through to being a specific commentary on/ direct result of our FPTP system for parliamentary elections, but that makes complete sense. Another reason for the need to reform our horribly broken (IMO!) so-called democratic system. Thank you for that little insight (of which, in my slow way, I suspect others will have already been fully aware!!).

It's probably fair to remember that the 2011 Alternative Vote referendum favoured FPTP to PR by over 2:1

>42 Devils_Advocaat: It's also fair to remember that the larger, Conservative part of the then coalition government refused to offer Proportional Representation as a choice in that referendum, as their junior coalition party the Liberal Democrats had wanted. The 'Alternative Vote' system that the Conservatives agreed to accept instead of PR for referendum approval is used nowhere in the world to elect central government to the best of my knowledge, and was generally unheard of and little understood by most voters prior to the referendum campaign. Indeed, the Conservative Party, benefitting so strongly from the first-past-the-post system and dogmatically opposed to PR, would never have contemplated a referendum in favour of reform in the first place had not the Liberal Democrats insisted.

If I recall correctly, the majority of people I spoke to at the time preferred FPTP because it was more likely to give an outright majority to the party with most support. The alternative was seen as a recipe for a permanent series of 'minority' coalition governments where minor coalition parties (i.e. those with the least support) wield a disproportionate influence. This view seems born out by the fact that "the Conservative Party...would never have contemplated a referendum in favour of reform in the first place had not the Liberal Democrats insisted". I don't think presenting PR, AV, STV or any other alternative to the public at that time would have materially changed the outcome of the referendum.

>44 Devils_Advocaat: It's impossible to know isn't it, since AV is quite different to full PR, and there was such disparity between people's general knowledge of the two systems? AV is significantly less 'proportional' than full PR. Avoiding minority or coalition governments where small parties may wield disproportionate clout has always been an argument, and not an unreasonable one, against PR. However, I don't believe that that view as a matter of principle is necessarily borne out by the behaviour of the Conservative Party; it seems most reasonable that the latter were simply acting in their clear self-interest, since they benefit so disproportionately from the first-past-the-post system, and presenting the best excuse available.

>45 cronshaw: Yes, I think I can agree with all of that.

We've strayed a fair way from the issue of FS delivery problems so apologies if this has irritated any FSDs.

You're never going to get a perfect electoral system. FPTP has the advantage that the people elect a representative who is directly responsible to them. If the main parties enter candidates you don't like, you can vote for an independent or run yourself. Very occasionally these candidates do get home. That's impossible in a slate system.

Also England, Wales, and Scotland have not elected an extremist MP since the 1920s and the Communist coalfield voters. Whereas there are some very iffy parties in actual power in at least one European country - and even the uber-democratic ones like France and the Netherlands have extremists getting far more support than they would in Great Britain. In part because a lower level nationwide support translates into electoral representation and then into mainstream appeal.

I think it's pretty sad.
I remember how life as a Folio devotee was simple back in 2013 - that's when I joined.

Back then, with less than £200 you could get some 5 to 6 pretty incredible books even if they were being discounted at 20% for father's day or something like that.

With the price hike, my need to save more, and the obligatory express shipping, I've grown less attached to Folio books. Although I am still in awe of them, I now see them for the luxuries they are.

Probably I will order once a year,and that too will only be for books that I really really want.

Terrible news for me as I live in one of the countries they don't ship anymore - I don't think I'll bother with a forwarding service. It was a fun ride. On the flip side their decision is gonna do wonders for my wallet. I'll keep following the archive series here.

>34 Hrodberht: I work in VAT and this does summarise the position well, though I would still argue Brexit is very much a defining factor. Although the new rules apply equally across the EU, they also bring a simplified VAT accounting system which applies to businesses located within the EU - the VAT 'One Stop Shop' ('OSS') - which mitigates the difficulty now being faced by Folio (and other non-EU businesses) for EU suppliers. Were the UK still part of the EU, the Folio Society would not have an obligation to register in each individual member state where it supplies goods to customers; rather, it could utilise the 'OSS' to file a single EU-wide VAT return which remits the relevant VAT to each EU tax jurisdiction. I'm simplifying a bit, but the point is that these new EU VAT rules will not affect businesses within the EU in the same way they will businesses located outside the EU; the new rules actually make it easier for businesses in one EU member state to sell to customers in other EU member states and remit the VAT without needing local VAT registrations, which can be bureaucratic and costly (hence I suspect Folio's decision simply to stop shipping to certain countries rather than incur these costs and future compliance requirements).

Many UK businesses, if they have enough customers in the EU, are trying to get around this by shifting their EU supply chain such that they have a warehouse for their goods in an EU member state, thereby allowing them to benefit from the OSS. In theory, this is a model I suspect Folio could look at in future if they have sufficient EU demand for their books, though it would complicate their supply chain and would probably not be worth it if sales to the EU member states which are affected are minimal. Unfortunately, this seems to be the decision they have made for the time being.

Ultimately, it's an unfortunate situation, and as others have noted, one especially galling in that it will fall more heavily on smaller and independent non-EU businesses. If you are a larger UK business, you may already have an EU warehouse for your European supply chain, and in this case the One Stop Shop will actually simplify your VAT compliance moving forward.

If the UK were still a part of the EU, the Folio Society would be able to benefit from these new rules rather than suffering from them as a non-EU business. Brexit unfortunately tends to hit smaller businesses harder than larger ones which can more easily adapt their supply chain and absorb the extra cost.

Slightly Foxed have also "temporarily suspended" deliveries to EU countries.

>51 RHalley63: Thank you for your analysis.

In the past, FSD members have often suggested that the Folio Society's distribution could benefit from a European (and US) warehouse so perhaps these changes might add impetus to that. I believe that FS do/did send a number of orders out from Spain so perhaps that might be developed into a European gateway from them.

It would be a great shame to exclude loyal customers in the 'minor' FS European nations indefinitely.

In the past FS did have a Canadian office close to the main airport, to which you could return books etc. How big a warehouse they had I don't know, but in any case they closed it down, as they did their US equivalent. Presumably it wasn't economical.

>53 Hrodberht:

Since quite a number of their books are produced in the EU, this might actually be beneficial in more than one way, but we can only wait and hope. I assume they 'only' cut off the country to which they don't have big sales anyway. But that still means losing customers, and I know I'll reduce my purchases when I'm forced to use express only.

I am still wondering what is the exact change in the rules that makes Folio business model non-profitable for the smaller EU markets. That is, what is going to change in July that makes it worse for Folio. I assume that from January until now they sent the books as zero-rated exports, and we would pay import VAT, and possibly customs upon package arrival. So what changes in July that makes this scheme infeasible?

>54 Jayked: As I recall, they used to have an office in some town in Pennsylvania where the Book of the Month Club, along with other similar book clubs, were located. The FS might have just contracted with them to handle the shipments.

>56 senoirem: If they want to sell in them, they need to register for VAT in each country separately - which is expensive and an administrative overhead.

>58 AnnieMod: That’s what I understand as well.

It’s similar to if the US decided to split apart, and the FS would suddenly have to register and handle the paperwork for 50 different small countries, but for the same geographic and market size as before.

>58 AnnieMod: register, and then file annual VAT returns in each country forever more, while keeping track of any rule changes in that country with the risk of financial penalties if they get something wrong. Some countries would even require that FS set up a legal entity in country to act as the ultimate seller.

As a tax consultant, I can tell you those costs add up quickly!

>60 Uppernorwood: Yup (thus my administrative overhead note) - once you are registered, you have to follow the local laws as they change. As much as I hate seeing it, I can understand Folio's position.

For some countries it is almost a complete circle - when I started buying books online in the first years of this century, most of the UK (and US) publishers did not have Bulgaria listed as an option (credit cards shenanigans were common... and for some, it did not sound like a place they wanted to explore (or they had no idea we are in Europe...)). Back then, especially the smaller ones, did not use the now common "every country you can think of" lists on checkout. So more often than not, I had to talk to them to start shipping to Bulgaria. Then we got into EU, the world changed... and we were part of the civilized world for a bit. Happy days :)

Now with UK out of EU, it feels like square one. I am relieved that I do not live there just now although I do not blame Folio or any other UK publisher not shipping to EU (or parts of it) just now. And I suspect that the new rules and laws will be strictly enforced, especially for UK arrivals (plus it is not the wild west of internet anymore...).

>50 bacchus.: I lied :P I snatched one last order before goodbye.
Rama, The Road and Howl's - I predict all will be overpriced on secondary market.

>38 Uppernorwood: "A referendum meant that everyone’s vote was counted and contributed to the ultimate result. People saw it as a way to finally be heard."

Whilst I agree with your general point about people feeling disenchanted with the political elite, I don't agree that the Brexit vote was a comment on our voting system. The voting public had the chance only a few years earlier to get rid of the FPTP system in another referendum, and they rejected this overwhelmingly, with most of the support for reform coming from parties that were, and are, passionately pro-EU. I think that the Brexit result was more a consequence of clever campaigning and support from populist politicians.

And let's not forget that the FPTP system is really an English thing, rather than UK wide - residents of Wales and Scotland elect their devolved parliaments on a different system.

So I have a silly question- since now FS is adding taxes to certain EU countries, does that mean that we won't have to pay any customs on this? Or do we pay the taxes and the customs?

(Apologies, I know that this is probably a really stupid question.)

>64 sekhmet0108: You used to have to pay import tax on the books (equal to the VAT normally due for them), which you now pay up front. So unless the country to which you import also has duties on books (unlikely), it should be cheaper now because you no longer have to pay the courier's fee for collecting the import tax on behalf of customs – theoretically.

Does your country tax books that are imported? Are there VAT on books in your country? When I was living in Denmark the VAT on books was and still is 25%. This means both books bought in the country as well as books imported. It’s some socialistic over burdened tax the education and not learn a foreign language crap that I got sick off. Norway and Sweden are smarter.

On top of that I had to pay charges and handling fees by the courier or post office. VAT is not calculated on the price of the book but the entire total price including shipping (which I always thought was unfair hence why I used a decade of my life writing angry letters to my the post office and tax authorities until I gave up and moved country. Now I live in a book tax haven. Lol

So maybe you could move country? It will make shipping cheaper.

>66 ironjaw: LOL! As much as I love collecting books, I don't think that I am going to move countries to facilitate my book-buying. I admire your commitment, though!

And yes, there is a 7% VAT on books here, which is why I was wondering. So, I guess I will have to pay a bit more from now onwards.

This development is regrettable and puts The Folio Society at a competitive disadvantage to the likes of UK internet bookshops (such as my own) that sell Folio Society books to the EU.

As I understand it, ABE Books has agreed an arrangement with the EU by which EU customers who buy books from say a UK bookseller are charged by ABE Books the local VAT due when they buy the book. ABE Books then remits this VAT to the EU. As a UK bookseller I can sell books to any EU member state and compliance with EU VAT regulations is of no concern to me.

I wonder whether small and medium UK companies selling to the EU could form some trade association which negotiates a similar arrangement with the EU?

The same general issue applies of course to EU companies selling goods into the UK market.

VAT still creates many painful compliance issues even in the UK - which of course has left the EU and regained its sovereignty and full parliamentary democracy - and once more I can blame the French ... who invented this horrible tax!

>68 English-bookseller:

From what I've heard and read, the tricky bit with that deal is that it only covers purchases of up to 150 Euros. Since above that the whole tax and customs issue gets so complicated that Abebooks now simply refuses to allow any such purchases for buyers in the EU from outside the EU. Thanks a lot. But below that, it definitely makes things easier on the buyer's and seller's part because everything is handled by Abebooks.