Suntup Artist Gift Editions

How nice are these? I’m seriously considering Replay and maybe Johnny Got His Gun. They seem expensive for what they are (compared to, say, a standard FS book).

>1 RRCBS: Well they’re usually signed by the artist. Throw a signature onto a FS standard edition and it sells for more than a Suntup AE (e.g. Sharpe’s Tiger). I don’t own any Suntup AEs, though I have two on order, but they look to be at least on a par with standard FS books.

Think of a standard FS book with a dust jacket as well as a slipcase, throw in a signature or two and you have a Suntup AE. I have half a dozen, and appreciate them all.

I have a few, too, and am pleased with them. I know that dust jackets are usually frowned upon by collectors, but Suntups have attractive original art, often wraparound. They are priced fairly, in my opinion.

I'd say that Suntup Artist Editions are significantly nicer than a typical standard Folio. They're more comparable to the "finer" standard Folios like Dune or Kavalier and Clay that also run ~$140. But the Suntup AEs are also, as was mentioned, signed by the artist and specifically limited and numbered.

>5 whytewolf1:
Actually, the artist editions aren’t numbered. They are limited, according to Suntup’s website, to 1,000 copies, but this limitation isn’t mentioned in the books themselves.

In my experience, Suntup Artist Editions have some really good artwork, but the print quality of the illustrations is better in FS books. Suntup prints them on the same paper as the text and they look kind of matte. That's not an issue with some illustrations, but less than ideal for others. (Starship Troopers comes to mind.) On the other hand, they often have more illustrations than the average FS book these days, so that's a plus for Suntup. Otherwise the quality is pretty much on a par for me. The Suntup AE slipcases are nicer than run-of-the-mill FS slipcases, but not quite as nice as some of their more creative efforts. I like the fact that the books have a dustjacket and you get a book mark that fits the individual book. The prices used to be good but are now rather on the high side for what you get, at least if the artist's signature isn't that relevant to you, which it isn't in my case. I'd be more comfortable with the prices if they were the author's signature, but then they have some authors where that's not possible or where the price would probably rise significantly, so I understand that this isn't done for the AEs. You do often get that with the more expensive numbered or lettered editions, though, but then those are almost inaccessible due to the rights system.
All in all: I have a few titles and enjoy them, but I would prefer it if the (really good) illustrations were printed on different paper than the text and in higher quality, like FS does it.

I mostly own Numbered editions from Suntup, but I also have 2 Artist editions. They’re pretty nice, simple books. They are always fairly similar in design. They all come with a dust jacket, a sturdy textured slipcase, are bound in standard book cloth and are signed by the artist(s).

As someone who doesn’t care about signatures, I find them overpriced for what they are. They used to be cheaper (less than $100), which was more inline with their quality imo, but then again I don’t value signatures. Red Dragon in particular was such a good deal that Paul was actually losing money on each and every one sold.

All in all, I’d say it depends how you value signatures, illustrations and the story. If a particular AE ticks thoses boxes, then I’d say you’re getting your money’s worth

>5 whytewolf1: « They're more comparable to the "finer" standard Folios like Dune … »

I honestly don’t see it. Finer Folio editions more often than not have more intricate designs and production details, and use better materials.

When I take a look at my recent « finer » FS (Anansi Boys, Game of Thrones series, Call of Cthulhu, Japanese Tales, Outlaws of the Marsh, The Godfather, etc.), they are all better finely crafted books imo. They either have gilded/printed edges, better quality paper (usually), nicer binding materials, more elaborate designs, better-looking slipcases (usually), etc. Suntup’s AE binding is standard cloth, nothing more. Only the color changes from book to book. They all sport some small and simple blind/foil stamping on the cover and spine. The paper is acid-free and similar in quality to Abbey Wove imo. That’s pretty much it as far as design and quality go. I definitely give the advantage to Suntup’s slipcases sturdiness though. And obviously dust jackets, if you like them.

Heck, I’d even say some of Folio’s standard editions are better than Suntup’s AE quality-wise (Hitchhiker’s Guide, Steppenwolf, etc.).

Overall and in general, I think they stand between Folio’s standard and fine editions, even if a 1:1 comparison is difficult. And Suntup’s are signed by the artist(s), let’s not forget it. It definitely adds value for those who care about signatures.

Edit: edited last paragraph

> 8 Red Dragon in particular was such a good deal that Paul was actually losing money on each and every one sold.

Are you sure about that? Paul seems to be a very savvy business owner. At the point Red Dragon came out, he'd already had a lot of success. Pricing to lose money on a premium product makes no sense.

>9 SDB2012: 100% sure about that. He said it a couple of times in his live videos.

I own/pre-ordered most of them and you are probably right on it being priced higher than what they are, but if you add the dustjacket/signature and Suntup's fairly better slipcase, I think they are ok.

***The price is getting higher and higher now though(some understandably so like the Imajica AE) and I kinda regret buying some of them. The most significant price jump I remember was their 1984 AGE that was priced $120 and I thought at the time that was ok since it has seventeen full color illustrations. Now most of them are above $125 and nothing really changed on their production values. The price is still kinda ok for me except the Island of Dr. Moreau AE being $130? when it's on public domain?! lol***

I echo most of the sentiment here. Around Folio standard edition quality, nicer than some, not quite as nice as others, better slipcases, more uniform.

I would add that the art tends to be done in a more involved medium, such as paintings, as opposed to Folio which more often (though not exclusively, and less now) leans toward traditional illustration techniques such as etchings and woodcuts.

Count me among those that don't care about the signature, but I still have thought that an AE was worth my money for a few titles where the numbered edition was printed offset, and I was interested in the title, and I liked the art.

I'm especially looking forward to Imajica, which seems like a bit of an outlier (apart from just being longer, it is also supposed to incorporate some letterpress elements even within the artist edition, though the bulk of the text block is still to be printed offset).

As a side note, one of the Suntup titles I was most excited about was Let the Right One In, which I would say is also of higher literary quality than many Suntup titles. I had a copy of the AE which is nicely produced overall, and I like the art, but I ended up selling it because there is a glaring printing error which affects the entire print run and I ended up deciding that bothered me too much. Unfortunately, the numbered edition is in this case printed offset.

>12 abysswalker:

Could I ask what the printing error was?

The low point for me in that regard was a book where a paragraph was missing right in one of the most important scenes. At least it was just a paperback, but that was still completely unacceptable.

>13 SF-72: there is a spread where a fictional news article is presented inline. The article body is at the bottom of the left page and the article title is at the bottom of the right page. It looks like the kind of layout error one might make if doing automatic layout or if the person doing layout didn't read English.

>14 abysswalker:

Thank you. That would be irritating.

I think at that price point you can probably try one out without too much risk. I would say they are more or less on par with nicer standard FS books.

I would note the prices are on an inexorable march towards $200 it looks like. Which is probably not surprising, since everyone and their mother, aunt and uncle all buy two or more copies to start flipping as soon as they're sold out.

>16 _WishIReadMore: Not to mention inflation.

>6 jroger1: You are, of course, correct about them not being numbered, though they are limited. Thanks for the correction.

>7 SF-72: >8 Nerevarine: I think it's clear that all AEs are not created equal, just as not all "nicer" Folios are. A pretty decent comparison would be to do a one-to-one on Starship Troopers and A Stranger in a Strange Land. I think you'd find the verdict more or less split between collectors that prefer one edition and collectors who prefer the other. Preferences also would probably reflect what aspects of the production a particular collector valued and simple differences in taste. Also, it may be that Suntup is priced a little higher for what you get, and that may also be attributable to the fact that since the books have a stated limitation, they can't just go do another print run of Jaws. I think Folio is on its 7th printing of Dune, for instance. That certainly helps to spread out fixed costs.

With regard to the pricing of the AEs, collectors clearly still see them as fairly-priced or titles wouldn't still be selling out left and right. And yes, not everything sells out in less than 24 hours, but if you sell 800 of 1000 in a day or two and then it takes you 3-4 months to sell the other 200... well, let's just say that we could fill a cruise ship with small publishers who would love to have this "problem."

And without picking on anyone, in particular, I also really don't understand the mindset that continually compares what a publisher once charged to what their current prices are and continually complains about price increases (and I see this type of complaining among Suntup collectors and Folio ones and collectors of other publishers, as well). There are many reasons that a business might increase prices, and it rarely has to do with simple greed, as if often implied. Material costs can go up, licensing fees can go up, and so can fees to artists and printers and binders. And there are a hundred other expenses that can influence prices. The only real question to ask is: Is this particular edition worth it to me for the price being asked? If not, walk away. It's as simple as that.

>18 whytewolf1: “The only real question to ask is: Is this particular edition worth it to me for the price being asked?”

Great advice. Don’t compare an offering or its price to anything except your personal enjoyment and budget. Occasionally you might be torn between two excellent editions, but in such a situation you really can’t go wrong with either one.

>19 jroger1: I agree wholeheartedly. There's a particular publisher who comes to mind that I won't mention by name, and it's one that I've only become interested in fairly recently. In the relatively recent past, this publisher generally charged $400-500 for their lettered editions. At that price point, I would have been happy to try for the lettered editions of some titles. However, the prices for their lettered editions have gone up to $750 in the past 6 months or so. Their lettered editions are not worth $750 _to me_. It would be nice to still be able to buy them at $500, but alas...

And here's the thing: Why have the prices gone up so much recently? I don't know, and it doesn't really matter. It is what it is. Also, their lettered editions still sell out within minutes, so clearly, enough people still find them worthwhile. I am still happily buying their numbered editions for $175, and I can certainly find many other places to spend my money if I so desire. So, it still works out for everyone.

>18 whytewolf1:

The thread was started by someone who hasn't got any Suntup editions (yet), but clearly knows FS standard editions, and asked about their quality by comparison. I was asked elsewhere what the paper quality of a publisher was like compared to Library of America, and that was easy to do - thicker. That kind of thing can be helpful because you have a common basis you can refer to.

I have both Stranger in a Strange Land and Starship Troopers in both Suntup AGEs and FS editions. In both cases I prefer the FS editions with regard to the quality of the illustrations, to be exact how they were printed. In the case of Starship Troopers the number of illustrations is very low in Suntup, otherwise they're good. The FS Starship Troopers is very appealing in that it has metallic coloured page edges, they look great and suit the book, and it has more illustrations, though I like the ones in Suntup a bit better. Personally I find the Suntup illustrations of Stranger unsuitable - lots of pretty women and what amounts to a samurai in clothes that don't fit the ascetic background of Mars in this book at all. They're very pretty, they just don't fit. The books also cost more than FS. If I had to choose, I'd take FS instead of Suntup.

After having made the direct comparison you find more fair: I tried to help someone who asked a specific question and mentioned what, in my opinion, is better for either publisher. I hope that will help RRCBS make a decision.

With regard to the price, it seems to me that Suntup is testing out how far up they can go, and that's obviously increasingly higher since they're selling most of them very quickly anyway. To me that means that there are editions I wouldn't buy these days, others are worth it to me. So yes, I can 'walk away' if need be. But I find it regrettable when prices are pushed like that. It's safe to say that the actual cost doesn't increase that much on a two- or four-weekly basis, though I'm sure making these books has become more expensive over a few years.

>21 SF-72: and I appreciate all of the info!

>22 RRCBS:

Thank you, I'm glad I could help.

>21 SF-72:. Heck, I have the Suntup numbered editions of Stranger and Starship Troopers and I prefer my FS editions. Better covers and illustrations (and prices of course).