Rudyard Kipling Watermark

I recently bought a book because I was fascinated by the watermark on every page. The watermark is RK with a swastika between the two letters.

On a scale of 1-10, with 1 being rare and 10 being common, what would you rate the use of watermarks? And on every page?

The book is The Works of Rudyard Kipling, Volume II printed by Doubleday, Page and Company. The colophon (it's at the beginning of the book, so is it still called a colophon?) shows a limitation of 1,050 and my copy is numbered.

Does this automatically mean that the book is fine press?

(BTW, I learned subsequently that the swastika is a Hindu good luck symbol, but once the Nazis adopted it, Kipling dropped the use of it in his books.)

>1 maisiedotes: I would love to see some pics.

Also, the swastika was used by Native American tribes, including the Navajo. Although, the tribes never called them swastikas of course...
https://www.cpr.org/2018/08/15/those-are-sacred-navajo-symbols-not-swastikas-on-...



Now, as to your question "Does this automatically mean that the book is fine press?" the answer is NO. We had quite an exciting discussion not long ago about what makes a book fine press. We universally concluded that it is craftsmanship, and not simply limitation number. To add to that, in my opinion as well as many others (although certainly not all), the book also needs to be printed letterpress. Now, I suspect your book likely is fine press, but pictures would certainly help in determining that.

>1 maisiedotes: Watermarks on every page are uncommon, but not unheard-of.

There's no universally agreed-upon definition of "fine press". Because it was published by Doubleday, very few library curators would catalogue it as "fine press."

It is certainly a limited edition, probably printed letterpress on handmade paper, maybe hand-bound, and judging by your description a lovely book. It was common in the mid-1800's to mid-1900's for major publishing houses to release numbered limited editions of books on handmade (watermarked) paper. But these were quite separate from the primogenitors of the fine press movement. Keep in mind that all trade books before about 1950 were printed letterpress and all books until the advent of print-on-demand were "limited editions" (their limitations just weren't stated).

The book in my collection most akin to yours is the George Allen "Pride and Prejudice" — sometimes called the "Peacock Edition". It is printed letterpress using hand-set type on handmade paper, with about three hundred engravings, hand-bound, and limited to 125 copies. But is it fine press? Not in my opinion — it has no connection whatsoever to the fine press movement.

>2 astropi:
>3 grifgon:

Thank you so much for your enlightening responses. I'm new at this, and just soaking it all in!

I tried a while back to post pictures (in the George Macy group), but failed. It is time I figured it out, though, and I will try to get some photos up soon.

". . . handmade (watermarked) paper"
-- Are handmade and watermarked synonymous? (My guess is no.) Or is watermarked a subset of handmade? (My guess is yes.)

"All trade books before about 1950 were printed letterpress"
-- HUH! I've only recently sought out books pre-1950 and that's what I thought. It seemed like many of them felt like letterpress (do you identify letterpress predominantly by feel?).

There's so much I want to learn about paper and printing!

Any suggestions for how to take the pictures to help a viewer identify letterpress?

I can already imagine it being a challenge to photograph the watermark in my Kipling book.

>4 maisiedotes: You'll have to forgive the gratuitous parenthesis. Many (but not all) handmade papers are watermarked, and some (thought not many) machine made paper are watermarked. A watermark is often the sign of a high quality paper, though not always. Capitol Bond is one of the cheapest and most widely used executive office papers, can be bought for dollars a ream, and is watermarked. A better sign of quality paper is a deckle edge. That said, some publishers prefer to cut off the deckle edge! Same paper, but no deckle. Everything with fine press is a multi-dimensional affair, it's hard to speak in absolutes.

Letterpress was the main printing technology from the time of Gutenberg to the mid-twentieth century. Today, basically the only use of letterpress in bookmaking is in the fine press community. You can often tell letterpress by its signature impression, but oftentimes not! For a long time, the best letterpress printing was considered to be that which didn't leave any impression (kissing). Some presses today still abide by this philosophy, most notably Arion Press. Today, most letterpress printers like a hefty impression to show off the art form. But chances are, if you fine a pre-1950 book with visible impression, it would have been considered poorly printed.

Up is down, left is right. This is why we don't have any agreed upon definition of "fine press". Welcome to the community, though, we're super glad to have you! This forum is a great resource to keep up with what's current in parts of the fine press world. Other great resources include the Fine Press Book Association and the Books and Vines blog.

>4 maisiedotes: wrote:

I can already imagine it being a challenge to photograph the watermark in my Kipling book.

A source of illumination behind the page will make the watermark stand out in a picture.

Easiest way to post photos in Librarything is to upload them to a picture hosting site such as
https://postimages.org/
It will then give you a "Hotlink for website" which you can just copy and paste in your message, and voila!

>5 grifgon: Thank you for the welcome!
>7 astropi: Thank you for the link to postimages. I'll try tomorrow.

I'm not a collector (yet!), but yesterday I went to the antiquarian section of a store and became absorbed in the books about books section. Everything was a thrilling discovery. I couldn't believe they had all those books lying there for anybody to wander in and touch.

When I finally looked at the time, I gasped with horror as it was 40 minutes past the time I was supposed to leave and be at an appointment!

Testing!
Picture of my Rudyard Kipling.

I think that worked!

Would someone let me know if the pictures are there? (When I posted on the George Macy group a few months ago, I could see the pictures, but nobody else could!)

>7 astropi: I am very grateful for your tip to choose "Hotlink for website."

I see them just fine! It's a lovely book.

>11 maisiedotes: you are welcome :)
Pictures look great!

>12 grifgon:
>13 astropi:

Thank you both. Onward!