Saintly popes?

Saintly popes: People question whether canonizing popes is a good idea (NCR)

With the news that Pope John Paul I would soon be beatified, Twitter and other social media were filled — again — with the question: Has being pope become a shortcut to canonization?...

John Paul I on course for sainthood as pope credits him with miracle (Guardian)

Pope Francis has approved the crediting of what was described as the miraculous healing of a child to the intercession of John Paul I, advancing the cause for sainthood for one of his predecessors, who died 33 days after being elected pontiff in 1978...

Anyone got any thoughts on this?

I have wondered a bit about the fast track to canonization in the modern era all the popes since vatII have been elevated, Padre Pio, Maximilian Kolbe, Edith Stein, Mother Theresa, Theresa Lisieux, four Americans who have their causes being reviewed and two other Americans who have been tainted by homosexuality in one way or another have been put aside. Having read numerous accounts of Joan of Arc I found it hard to believe it took five hundred years to canonize her. My favorite current candidate is the Ven Matt Talbot of Dublin if canonized he will be the first non clerical person in Irish history to become a saint hard to believe with all the Irish have been through. Tom Dooley an American Navy doctor was considered to at one time but the homosexual bomb has dropped on him too, his book "the Night they burned the Mountain" not to be confused with the Seven Story Mountain by Thomas Merton, inspired me as a very young man. I'm studying Dorothy Day trying my best with an open mind we'll see. Across the pond as we say my candidates are all my favorite converts Chesterton, Robert Hugh Benson, Hillaire Belloc, Gerard Manly Hopkins, Cardinal Manning, and of course The great newly canonized saint John Henry Cardinal Neumann. I would be remiss if I did not mention Solanus Casey an American Franciscan who had to fight to become a priest even after becoming a priest he was not allowed to preach or hear confessions, but he did have one gift that of healing, they lined up for blocks to spend a minute with him. Cole Younger who was the notorious cousin of Jesse James a man who killed many people and himself was shot eleven times was converted by Solanus, I know a Holy Cross Brother at Notre Dame who when as child was brought to Solanus by his father and cured of an inner air disease by Solanus cuffing his hands over the boy's ear, Well you asked for a comment I love our english speaking saints....AMDG....

>2 brone: Yes, I also have my doubts about fast-tracking saints so soon after their death.

I suppose in part it depends on what is the purpose of declaring someone a saint. Is it a recognition of their holiness and the part they played in our Tradition and heritage? Or is it to provide an example and inspiration to current and future generations? Probably both. But if one is concentrating on the former, then there is no hurry - as you say, it can take 500 years! If the latter, then perhaps there is an argument for fast-tracking people who are not so far in the distant past and who can provide a more immediate example and inspiration.

Some of the names you mention fall into that latter category - Solanus Casey, Matt Talbot, Dorothy Day, Tom Dooley, Thomas Merton. Maximilian Kolbe and Edith Stein are both significant, I think. Mother Theresa too, although maybe it was a bit too rushed after her death. Africans have been inspired by the Uganda martyrs, and more recently the likes of Sister Bakhita, Bishop Daniel Comboni and Blessed Benedict Daswa. I believe Native Americans have been inspired by Kateri Tekakwitha. For groups who might feel marginalised it is very affirming to feel that "people like us" are recognised by the Church, just as it is inspiring for any individual to see someone whom they can identify with.

As for popes, I take the point made by Cardinal Beniamino Stella in the NCR article that it's not simply canonising someone because he was pope, but it's recognising a whole life of holiness, but one still wonders whether that whole life of holiness would have been recognised so quickly if he hadn't been pope. John XXIII certainly deserves sainthood for his inspiration to convene such an important and fruitful council, and he'd been dead for more than half a century so it wasn't too rushed. Paul VI? Well, he brought that council to completion, but was he really a notable pope? John Paul II is significant in the way he opened up the papacy to the world and particularly the youth, and he came as close to martyrdom as one possibly can. In the early Church martyrdom was a quick way to canonisation. If the conspiracy theorists are ever proven correct and it is found that John Paul I was murdered rather than died of natural causes, then I suppose he would qualify for martyrdom! Francis will almost certainly be made a saint eventually for his pastoral and reforming stance, but what's the hurry?

Let us consider say the opposite of Solanas Casey who by the way drove a street car for a living as did I, Charles de Foucauld of an ancient noble catholic family, playboy,officer in the French Army, world renown explorer of the Sahara, gave it all up converted back to the faith by a parish priest, lives the anchorite life of a desert father does not convert one Bedouin but was loved by all, His great prayer was, Our entire existence, our whole being must shout the Gospel from the rooftops. Our entire person must breathe Jesus, Our whole life must cry out that we belong to Jesus, reflect a Gospel way of living. Our whole being must be a living proclamation, a reflection of Jesus....JMJ....

>4 brone:

Indeed. Charles de Foucauld is one of my favourites. Evangelisation by example. Reminds me also of the words attributed to Francis of Assisi, "Preach the gospel always. Use words (only) when necessary".

Vatican Regulates Postulator’s Role in Saints’ Causes, Seeks to Curb Conflicts of Interest (ACI Africa)

The Vatican has introduced formal regulations for postulators — those who help guide the process behind the declaration of a saint in the Catholic Church. The norms are part of the reform of the administration of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints, which began in 2016. The regulations for postulators, set out in 86 points, are designed to clarify the tasks and procedures, and to prevent conflicts of interest...

'The dogmas that the church holds out as revealed are not truths which have fallen from heaven' St Pius X Lamentabili Sane....JMJ....

Retired Pope Benedict pens letter about his own death (NCR)

Retired Pope Benedict XVI has said he hopes to soon join a beloved professor friend in “the afterlife,” in a sign that the 94-year-old pontiff is not only accepting his eventual death but welcoming it. Benedict penned an Oct. 2 letter to a German priest, thanking him for letting him know of the passing of the Rev. Gerhard Winkler, a Cistercian priest and academic colleague of the former Joseph Ratzinger. “Of all my colleagues and friends he was the closest to me,” Benedict wrote, according to the letter reproduced in German media. “Now he has reached the afterlife, where many friends certainly await him. I hope I can join them soon”...

Five Ways Saint Pope John Paul II Changed the Catholic Church Forever (ACI Africa)

1. He helped bring about the 1989 fall of communism in Eastern Europe...

2. He beatified and canonized more saints than any predecessor, making holiness more accessible to ordinary people...

3. He transformed the papal travel schedule...

4. He transformed the teachings of the Church. John Paul II was a scholar who promulgated the Catechism of the Catholic Church in 1992, reformed the Eastern and Western Codes of Canon Law during his pontificate, and authored 14 encyclicals, 15 apostolic exhortations, 11 apostolic constitutions, and 45 apostolic letters...

5. He gave new life to the Catholic Church in Africa. John Paul II’s legendary evangelical fervor took fire in Africa. “John Paul II was fascinated by Africa; he saw African Christianity as living, a kind of New Testament experience of the freshness of the Gospel, and he was very eager to support that, and lift it up”...

The masterpiece Pascendi, St Pius X identified the worst heresy in the history of the church and foresaw the damage the heresy would inflict on the church, the heresy was and still is "Modernism" its "Principle Doctrine" wrote St Pius is "evolution", other heresies added or subtracted some part of the Deposit of Faith but evolution-based Modernism conceived of the whole world as in a state of continuous evolution and this said Pope St Pius X abandoned the very notion of the Immutable Truth....JMJ....

276 popes 76 of which are canonized 3 in a row since Vat II hmn !....JMJ....

The rock of Peter, the thing that seems most distasteful to so many about the Catholic Church is, in fact, the answer to their most urgent problems. The Papacy is the Lord's doing, not man's, and it ought to be marvelous in their eyes. May God grant that, in time our separated brethren will see this and come home....JMJ....

The Pontifical Council for the Family headed up by the supporter of blasphemous erotic art in sacred places Archbishop Paglia approves of the Vatican directive, "affective sexual education for Young People" This education if given in most PUBLIC schools in America would bring droves of irate parents to school board meetings in protest. It has a few good points, for the most part it is nothing less than depraved. This is the errant leftist philosophy of the post Vatican II era. This Vatican backed Sex-Ed program seeems almost like a confessors' program to study help for depraved sex-addicts.....Pope Pius XI encyclical Divini Illuis Magistrum Condemns Sex-Ed classes as a "grave danger" ....JMJ....

Pope Pius XI in his encyclical, (Divini Redemptoris ) " There would be today neither Socialism nor Communism if the rulers of nations had not scorned the teachings and maternal warnings of the Church"....JMJ....

Beatify in haste, repent at leaisure...

Deep in Vatican Archives, Scholar Discovers ‘Flabbergasting’ Secrets
Jason Horowitz | May 27, 2022

David Kertzer has spent decades excavating the Vatican’s hidden history, with his work winning a Pulitzer and capturing Hollywood’s attention. A new book examines Pope Pius XII’s role in the Holocaust.

Kertzer’s latest book, “The Pope at War,” (no touchstone) looks at the church’s role in World War II and the Holocaust — what he considers the formative event of his own life. It documents the private decision-making that led Pope Pius XII to stay essentially silent about Hitler’s genocide and argues that the pontiff’s impact on the war is underestimated. And not in a good way.

Mr. Kertzer makes the case that Pius XII’s overriding dread of Communism, his belief that the Axis powers would win the war, and his desire to protect the church’s interests all motivated him to avoid offending Hitler and Mussolini, whose ambassadors had worked to put him on the throne. The pope was also worried, the book shows, that opposing the Führer would alienate millions of German Catholics.

The book further reveals that a German prince and fervent Nazi acted as a secret back channel between Pius XII and Hitler, and that the pope’s top Vatican adviser on Jewish issues urged him in a letter not to protest a Fascist order to arrest and send to concentration camps most of Italy’s Jews.

...Defenders of Pius XII, whose case for sainthood is still being evaluated, have long argued that he worked behind the scenes to help Jews, and that anti-Catholic enemies have sought to stain the institution by sullying the pontiff...

...In 2014, he published The Pope and Mussolini examining Pius XI’s role in the rise of fascism and the antisemitic Racial Laws of 1938. It won the Pulitzer Prize.

Since then, Vatican archivists recognize and, sometimes, encourage him.

“Perhaps even they’re happy that some outsider is able to bring this to light because it’s awkward, perhaps, for some of them to do so,” he said...

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/27/world/europe/vatican-history-secrets-david-ke...

"none of us wanted the pope to speakout openly. We were all fugitives, the gestapo would only intensify its inquisition". Tagically demonstrated in Holland when the Catholic Bishops sent a letter of protest publicly condemning the transpotation of jews to concentration camps. The leaders of the Protestant churches agreed. The plan came to the Gestapo chief of Holland, Dr. Karsten, who made it clear that if they sent the letter he would send all converts and their families to the camps. Faced with this the Protestants backed down, the bishops sent the letter, resulting in the deaths of thousands including the great Carmelite nun Edith Stein and her sister. She was murdered along with 300 others publicly for "unruly" behavior. When the war was over the Chief Rabbi of Rome, Rabbi Zolli was so moved by the pope's defense of his people he converted to Catholicism and took as his baptismal name Eugenio the pope's own. Albert Einstein is quoted as saying, "only the church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for supressing the truth". Today revisionist historians are doing the same thing.....JMJ.....

>16 brone:

Yes, it's always a judgement call as to whether it is better to speak out publicly or to work quietly behind the scenes. China is a case in point at the moment - you appear to be quite critical of Francis for not speaking out publicly, as many people wanted Pius XII to do; so far Francis has taken a less public stance. Often there is no simple correct answer to that dilemma.

The bishops of Holland did speak out Heroicaly, leading to a special barracks at Auchwitz just for priests...AMDG....

Vatican documents show secret back channel between Pope Pius XII and Adolph Hitler (PBS on YouTube)

A series of recently opened Vatican archives are shedding new light on the relationship between Pope Pius XII and Adolph Hitler as he led Nazi Germany during World War II. A new book takes a deeper look at these revelations. Historian David Kertzer, author of “The Pope At War: The Secret History of Pope Pius XII, Mussolini, and Hitler,” joins Amna Nawaz to discuss...

The Truth: The papacy stands out as one of the few protectors of Jews during the period Kertzer examines.All the Selective evidence, crabbed interpretations, Monday morning quarter backing cannot change that. Francis allowed him to dig deep in the archives, really how far do ya have to dig the dust aint even settled yet it was only 6 popes ago. Some of Kertzers other contributions are a million dollar research grant from Uncle Sam to study why we have low fertility rates, I could've told em that one for nuttin.How bout this impotent study " the perils of reification identity" The teachers Union must be scrambling to get that one into the curriculum. All his interviews with left wing media are drueling to smear the Church and the left wing Catholics are especially salivating at the prospect of another nail in PXII coffin. He has a quote from the guy he is imitating John Cornwell on the cover. He actually has three chapters devoted to the ancient charge of Jews murdering Christians during Passover to drink their blood. I advise any catholic or sensible person to read, Catholics remember the Holocaust, which contains the full text of the 1998 Shoah document, not the re-edited version of Kertzer Read also the famous clarification and response to anti catholics like Kertzer by Cardinal Cassidy, I hope I would defend Francis six popes from now who smear him for Peronist tendency's and Marxist liberation theology.... JMJ

>19 John5918:

*Adolf

There is enough of a debate about the actions of the Pope during WWII that there is a Wikipedia page devoted to it called Pius Wars. I would suggest not basing one's understanding of the debate on what a single author says.

>21 cpg:

Agreed, definitely. Like most things, it's complex and there's probably no single simple right answer. Pius XII was trying to balance a number of conflicting imperatives, and no doubt he would have been criticised whichever path he trod. Kertzer is just one voice in an ongoing conversation.

Furthermore, the author of the Pope at War himself admits that the book does not contain a single "smoking gun", that however does not prevent the leftist PBS to shout from the roof tops "Vatican documents validate secret channel between Pope Pius XII and Adolph Hitler". If they are referring to the German prince Hesse sent in 1939 as a diplomat this was well before the "final solution" and Pius XII had no way of knowing the evolution of Nazi persecutions. Again six popes from now will I be defending Francis for his agreement with the Chinese Communists, will someone digging in the archives imply construed endorsement of Chinese Communism and the death camps being run at the time of the agreement or will Francis's reluctance to condemn Putin by name,which I believe is not an approval of Russian aggression. It is a recognition that such words would not favorably impact Putin's behavior. That I get, The China thing I think it will be proven that Francis was ill advised by the defrocked Cardinal felon McCarrick....JMJ....

‘Jews’ series of Historical Archives of Secretariat of State published online (Vatican News)

At the request of Pope Francis, the virtual reproduction of a collection preserving the requests for help addressed to Pope Pius XII by Jews from all over Europe after the beginning of Nazi-Fascist persecution is now accessible to all. It consists of a total of 170 volumes, or nearly 40,000 files. Only 70% of the total material will be initially available, but will later be supplemented with the final volumes currently being prepared...

On the already-public negotiations between the Holy See and Germany (Vatican News)

The Osservatore Romano newspaper offers a response to the new book "The Pope at War: The Secret History of Pius XII, Mussolini, and Hitler”, written by David I. Kertzer...

And on a different papal tack:

John Paul I and the pill: He wanted change, but accepted ‘Humanae Vitae’ (Crux)

On the eve of the World Meeting of Families and with a view toward the beatification Sept. 4 of Pope John Paul I, attention turned to his initial openness to softening Catholic teaching on contraception and his later support for the teaching of St. Paul VI...

Amazing how fast the post VII popes become saints, Im afraid Joe Razinger will have to wait because like Venerable Bishop Sheen canonization process was halted because some one said he knew a homosexual 40 years before his death, ole Joe knew one also in munich a hundred years ago, and Pius Xll he knew Nazis says some jewish anti catholic...dont worry guys Joan of Arc wasn't canonized till 1928....AMDG

>26 brone:

You are very dismissive of a very serious issue within the Catholic Church, namely the rape of children by priests. If it is alleged that a bishop knew that a priest in his diocese was a rapist and simply moved him around so he could continue raping children, do you not think it merits an investigation?

Does the Bishop of Rome Know of any such incidences.

I'm sure we all know of priests who were thought to be paedophiles. It was remarkably common in the pre-Vatican II Church, where it was almost invariably covered up, and post-Vatican II, where great efforts have been made to address the probem. But there's a difference between the rumours that float around, and a bishop who explicitly knows that a priest is a rapist and yet deliberately covers it up and appoints him to another parish where he can continue raping children. It certainly deserves to be properly investigated.

Best tap dance yet

>30 brone:

What a meaningless post. So are you saying that you don't think allegations of child sexual abuse by priests should be investigated? And that you don't think that bishops who knowingly covered up sexual abuse and simply posted an abusive priest somewhere else where he could continue raping children should be investigated? I'm trying to ascertain what your point actually is.

You know what my stand is on Homosexual acts in any era.

>32 brone:

Sometimes you wander around so much ("tap dancing" is how you refer to it, I believe, and you're pretty adept at it) that I lose track of what you're actually talking about. In this instance I'm not talking about homosexual acts, nor any particular era, but child sexual abuse - child rape to put it bluntly. It has to be properly investigated, and by civil authorities, not just internally by the Church, not only an investigation of priests who commit abuse but also of bishops who covered it up and knowingly allowed the crimes to continue. Homosexual acts are not crimes, but the Church might consider it necessary to investigate whether a crime was committed (eg an abuse of power such as a bishop with seminarians, a confessor with a confessee), and might consider it relevant to a canonisation process.

Then you know my stand on sodomy also....AMDG.....

‘Crushed’ by 2 papacies, John Paul I’s death eclipsed life (AP)

John Paul I, born Albino Luciani, is widely remembered more for his sudden, mystery-dogged death than for his life. Falasca, an Italian journalist for a Catholic publication, has toiled for more than a decade to change that and to convince the Vatican that he deserves to be a saint for how he lived his faith, as a priest, bishop, cardinal and, so briefly, as pontiff. On Sunday, Pope Francis will beatify John Paul I, the last formal step before possible sainthood... John Paul I “was a figure crushed between two pontificates,″ Falasca said, speaking down the block from St. Peter’s Square. She was referring to his successor, John Paul II, one of history’s longest-reigning popes, and his predecessor, Paul VI, whose 15-year papacy saw him preside over Vatican Council II with its modernizing reforms. Both have been made saints. In Luciani’s case, ”no historian was interested in the pope. Like he was passing briefly through time, forgotten,” Falasca said... “He lived with exemplary method, faith, hope, charity,” she said. “He’s a model for everyone, precisely because he had borne witness to the essential virtues.” John Paul I also broke molds, referring to himself as “I” in papal speeches, instead of the more impersonal traditional “we.” “He was like a light breeze sweeping away centuries” of formalities, Falasca said. “His choice of being colloquial was a theological choice”...

St Pius V was a whirlwind sweeping away heresy and Muslim invasions....JMJ....Cause of Our Joy Pray for Us.

Pope John Paul I reminds us of the essence of the Gospel (Vatican News)

On 8 February 1970, in St. Mark's Basilica, in his first homily as Patriarch of Venice, Albino Luciani repeated the words he had said eleven years earlier to the faithful of Vittorio Veneto as soon as he had become their bishop: The Lord prefers that certain things not be engraved in bronze or in marble but in the dust, so that if the writing had remained, it would have been clear that the merit was all and only God's. I am the dust; the great episcopal dignity and the Diocese of Vittorio Veneto are wonderful things that God deigned to write on me; if a little good comes out of this writing, it is clear even now that it will be all due to the grace and mercy of the Lord. It is in these words, 'I am the dust', that can be discovered the great secret of the Christian life that Albino Luciani gave witness to throughout his life...

Pope beatifies John Paul I: May he obtain for us the 'smile of the soul' (Vatican News)

Pope Francis presided over the beatification Mass of Pope John Paul I, recalling how his smile communicated the goodness of the Lord. He encouraged everyone to learn from the Lord on how to love without limits and be a Church with a happy, serene and smiling face, that never closes doors...

Saturday was the feast day of Guiseppe Melchiore Sarto,PiusX. His repression of Modernism a contemporary intellectual movement (still is) seeking to reinterpret traditional Catholic teaching. "the true friends of the people are not revolutionaries, nor innovators but traditionalists" ....AMDG....Mary Queen of the Apostles Pray for us.

>39 brone:

Indeed. As Catholics we are all traditionalists, basing ourselves on both Scripture and Tradition. It's the nature of our Church. Yet our understanding of what is found in these two sources of Divine Revelation is constantly deepening and evolving - it's a living Tradition, not a dead one. To use Pope Benedict XVI's words, we seek a "'hermeneutic of reform', of renewal in the continuity of the one subject-Church which the Lord has given to us. She is a subject which increases in time and develops, yet always remaining the same, the one subject of the journeying People of God", not a "hermeneutic of discontinuity and rupture" (ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI TO THE ROMAN CURIA OFFERING THEM HIS CHRISTMAS GREETINGS, Thursday, 22 December 2005)

For someone who not to long ago wondered about my faith,you do a lot of indeeding with me....AMDG....Our Lady of Peace Pray for Us.

>41 brone:

I don't understand that comment. "Indeed" indicates agreement with the part of what you wrote that I then expand on. We are both Catholics and we share far more of our faith than we disagree on.

Indeed!

I didn't know JPI was even Venerable, let alone Beatus, and now Sanctus. A very remarkable canonization. Not much said around these parts about it. He was the first pope to double down on names, refused the Tiarra, I hear he was an amiable fellow and might well have been a good pope. His cult must be totally Italian or a very local cult limited to certain members of the Curia. His sainthood does fill in that conspicuous gap in the line of saintly VatII popes. you could almost say it is the canonization of VatII ....AMDG....

And saintly cardinals: Kenya’s First Cardinal Headed to Sainthood Hailed as “a great gift to the Church” (ACI Africa)

Kenya’s first Cardinal, the Servant of God, Maurice Michael Cardinal Otunga, who is being considered for Sainthood, has been hailed as “a great gift to the Church” in the East African country and the world... Cardinal Otunga’s cause for canonization started in 2009 when the then Archbishop of Nairobi, John Cardinal Njue, petitioned the Vatican-based Congregation for the Causes of Saints to approve the process. The request was granted, allowing Cardinal Otunga to be referred to as “Servant of God”...

Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen was considered for canonization but that was quashed under this regime because he had some vague knowledge of a homosexual act while he was in Rochester NY what priest alive today doesn't know of similar situations including PF, Sheen was to conservative and American to boot to be held in esteem by the progressives in charge these days....AMDG.... Mother of Our Creator Pray for US.

>46 brone:

This regime? That's political language, not Church language. We've discussed Archbishop Sheen before. I don't know the result of the investigation, and you probably don't either, but if it is alleged that he failed to take action over any form of sexual abuse, homosexual or otherwise, then it needs to be investigated properly. You have stated clearly that you are against clergy sexual abuse, and presumably also against bishops covering up and failing to act upon allegations of abuse, so I would have thought you would understand the need for a thorough investigation.

This Pope uses a lot more political Language than I do, Back to saints since VatII sainthood got a lot easier new and relaxed regs, curiously a couple of Pius's have missed the boat, my favorite is the disgraced Archbishop Sheen but im just nagging there, The devil's advocate must be given another job finding sins against the climate or negotiating renewal of the treaty with red china that's coming up. Why has One of the holiest Cardinals of the 20th century case been tanked since VatII Merry DeVal, could it be that as some have said he was influential in the election of St Pius X after all he was the papal secretary of that conclave, just musing thats all, no disconnected mumbo jumbo or difficult quizzes....JMJ.... House of Gold Pray for Us.

>48 brone:

Rumour, gossip, innuendo, supposition, sarcasm, no credible sources cited...

Just History.

Is it a rumor that three VatII popes have been canonized ? Is it gossip That the sainly Merry De Val has been canceled as well as Fulton Sheen, Fr Cappadona? I concede the sarcasm on the Devil's advocate. When ever I tell a fact "no credible source is your answer" because you dodge the truth,I don't have to prove the holiness of these three men who the progressive left has canceled....JMJ....Our Lady Help of Christians Pray for US.

>1 John5918: My problem with the recent canonizations of popes, especially the "Santo subito" approach, is that when a couple of popes are canonized one is drawn to ask re the third who was not canonized: what did he do wrong?
It also seems rather untimely at a point in the Church's history when we are so noisily
divided: one person's saintly pontiff is another person's devil incarnate.

Damian Smyth

>52 Oileanach:

Thanks, Damian. Good points. As I think I said in >3 John5918:, what's the hurry?