Lord of the Rings LE 2022

Betreff des ursprünglichen Themas: New Tolkien LE

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Lord of the Rings LE 2022

1jsg1976
Bearbeitet: Apr. 14, 2022, 7:07 am

Per FS’s Facebook and Instagram just now, looks like a new Tolkien LE dropping on Wednesday April 20th.

https://www.facebook.com/TheFolioSociety/photos/a.232192513461460/78615681871904...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CcVDoo2oPxD/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

2NLNils
Apr. 14, 2022, 7:30 am

SE would be best!

3woodstock8786
Apr. 14, 2022, 7:31 am

There was also an email just now…I was instantly thinking of my poor wallet.

4trentsteel
Apr. 14, 2022, 7:31 am

Hoping the price is in the $600 range, but for 3 books and being LOTR, prob more likely $1200 or more.
I also hope there no weird enclosure to store the books. I don't need a slow closing PKD or HoHH magnet or something like that, especially if it adds alot to the cost.

5woodstock8786
Apr. 14, 2022, 7:50 am

I also guess that there will be a lot more people interested in a LotR LE… over £1000 is not an option for me sadly.
Still I am absolutely dying with curiosity here!

6What_What
Bearbeitet: Apr. 14, 2022, 8:03 am

The timing would make sense, as I think Amazon are about to start their show soon? Just checked, it starts September, 2022. So not quite, but I think there’s no bad month to release a LOTR LE.

So first Ulysses, and possibly LOTR gets reincarnated as a new LE. Will they touch the vellum-bound Tales set, such a TWITW or Alice? I hope not, they really are beautiful editions and would be hard to top.

7ubiquitousuk
Apr. 14, 2022, 8:26 am

I predict LE LoTR in the £600-£900 range. Fastest selling Folio Society edition ever. Shortly to show up on eBay at £2500+.

This would be a tough one for me. I've never read LoTR and am working up to doing so. It seems like too good a chance to miss, but I am also trying to save for some expensive private press editions that I want. Hmmm.

8woodstock8786
Apr. 14, 2022, 8:37 am

>7 ubiquitousuk: yes, this is a hard one. I am a Tolkien fan, I already have 5 editions of LotR, but this is the first time I would be tempted by a LE…but it depends on the price, I am still behind on the illustrated deluxe Harry Potters and that is pricey, spending £750 on a LotR would be pretty suicidal right now.
(Especially as we got our third price increase from our heating provider in just three months…)

9What_What
Apr. 14, 2022, 8:54 am

Their Instagram post actually has a #limitededition hashtag, so that seems confirmed.

10vmb443
Apr. 14, 2022, 9:01 am

Personally I’d love to see a new Folio Edition of The Lord of the Rings. I’m not a huge fan of the SE they offer and the idea of set similar to the Dante would be fantastic, beautifully produced individual volumes that are a nice reading size - so I look forward to seeing what they’ve come up.

On the other hand, I’m not particularly thrilled with the recent move to announce the date and time of new LE releases for two reasons. The first is that it removes some of the thrill and excitement of going onto the website and discovering a new LE has been listed. The second reason is based on The Haunting of Hill House LE and how many copies have shown up on eBay at exorbitant prices - those who want to make a quick buck know to be watching and ready to order and those who may have a genuine interest in the book for their own library and reading enjoyment miss out. I am glad to have gotten the Hill House LE, but seeing the number of copies so quickly showing up on eBay made me feel sick for those who truly wanted a copy and found they weren’t able to secure one because resellers had already stripped the tree bare. The new practice seems to undermine the true Folio lover who checks the website regularly out of a desire for beautiful books rather than a desire to make some fast cash.

11trentsteel
Apr. 14, 2022, 9:07 am

Possibly a side benefit of this new one, people offloading the prior LE to fund this one. Market may be flooded with those, which could result in a couple good bargains.

12ultrarightist
Apr. 14, 2022, 10:08 am

How do we know that this is LoTR rather than the Hobbit?

13Lady19thC
Apr. 14, 2022, 11:05 am

>12 ultrarightist: Exactly. We don't. It doesn't even have to be either of those. It could be the Silmarillion or one of his other books. No matter what, I can't afford LE's right now as I need a new computer. SE would have been feasible for me, but not the price of LE's.

14Shadekeep
Apr. 14, 2022, 11:15 am

>12 ultrarightist: I'm hoping it is The Hobbit. I'd rather have a superb edition of that right now than yet another LoTR.

15What_What
Apr. 14, 2022, 11:22 am

>10 vmb443: I thought quite the opposite - doesn't this even out the playing field so everyone has a fair chance at getting it? I've seen many stories of people in different time zones, meetings, or social commitments not being able to purchase it simply because they got there a few hours late. Now everyone has exactly the same information and can organize themselves accordingly.

Also, you could argue that serious resellers are much more advantaged by a random time, as they more than likely closely monitoring the FS website and discussion forums to take advantage of random drops.

16whytewolf1
Apr. 14, 2022, 5:03 pm

>15 What_What: Exactly right. The idea that the "real collectors" are advantaged by new LEs showing up at random days and times is quite a romantic notion. People who have a vested monetary interest in reselling (and I will say for the 1000th time that this problem, such as it is, is grossly overstated in our little niche) usually have strategies and systems in place for monitoring such occurrences and are usually the ones who benefit most (e.g. there were a fair number of SK-signed copies of Misery that popped up on the secondary market in relatively short order).

17cronshaw
Apr. 14, 2022, 5:48 pm

A good way to limit scalpers' ability to acquire an excessive number of copies of any edition to re-sell on the secondary market at a marked-up price is for Folio simply to prevent any single person ordering more than one copy, or to prevent a second copy being ordered from the same billing address.

18A.Godhelm
Bearbeitet: Apr. 14, 2022, 6:23 pm

Well this is gonna be expensive and it's gonna sell out in no time flat. The colour scheme on that illustration looks a lot like Alan Lee's paintings and Folio worked with him on The Wanderer LE - though presumably they would be reusing most of his work (if indeed it is him) which is available elsewhere (the Harper Collins set).
Could be other works than Hobbit or LOTR. Given the setting of the Amazon show - if that's related at all, Silmarillion might make more sense. I'd be very surprised if it's something other than the core books though.

19whytewolf1
Apr. 14, 2022, 7:04 pm

>17 cronshaw: Determined resellers have pretty easy ways around that, though.

20JohnRokesmith
Apr. 14, 2022, 9:44 pm

Can anyone offer an opinion as to how likely it is that this LE might reappear as a standard edition? I haven't been collecting long, so I only know that it happens sometimes.

21A.Godhelm
Apr. 14, 2022, 10:45 pm

>20 JohnRokesmith: I'm not sure there are any hard and fast rules. Folio has a long running existing set of LotR (and matching Hobbit, Silmarillion books). Since these are evidently still selling (all are in stock right now), it seems very unlikely they'd suddenly replace them with a new standard edition. There's a few more books it could technically be (the Christopher Tolkien edited ones) but that'd be a real curveball.

22JohnRokesmith
Apr. 15, 2022, 12:27 am

>21 A.Godhelm: Thank you. That's a good point about the current edition.

23wcarter
Apr. 15, 2022, 12:32 am

Competitive book buying is becoming a new sport with recent FS LE releases.
It has been the case with other publishers (eg. Suntup, Centipede) for some time.
Not so sure I like the idea of FS following this path. Maybe they should increase the number of each LE being published to meet the market and prevent speculation.

24A.Godhelm
Apr. 15, 2022, 1:45 am

>23 wcarter: meet the market and prevent speculation
It seems these companies are benefitting a lot from hype though. People are more willing to buy at higher prices when the secondary market is crazy. It's tickling those luxury brand receptors where customers fight each other for fear of missing out - even when it comes to titles that aren't explicitly limited. While your classic charts would tell you to increase production to meet demand, it's not that simple when dealing with brand perception and people's idea of value. They're not cranking out widgets but trying to nurture a niche market.
From a consumer perspective, I'd certainly like a better shot at getting the editions I desire at reasonable prices. I just don't think they'll be in a hurry to accommodate that.

25English-bookseller
Apr. 15, 2022, 2:33 am

Does any work by Tolkien actually merit the status of a Folio Society Limited Edition?

At this rate Folio will be publishing an expensive Limited Edition of the Noddy books…

26wcarter
Apr. 15, 2022, 3:06 am

>25 English-bookseller:
Well they did an LE of Babar, which is not too far from Noddy!
Then they did another one on different types of apples.
With the FS, anything is possible.

27DMulvee
Apr. 15, 2022, 3:08 am

>25 English-bookseller: There is a LE of Babur already, Enid Blyton would appeal to me more.

I might be tempted with a LE of LOTR I’m not a huge fan, but only have a (battered) paperback version currently. However price, limitation size and materials used would be key. I’m guessing it would be about £1000-£1500 if three separate works, but am clueless on the limitation size. If there are 4000 copies then it would be a pass from me

28HarpsichordKnight
Apr. 15, 2022, 3:33 am

>25 English-bookseller: Come off it haha. I know your comment is partly tongue-in-cheek, but LOTR is just as well written as 80% of Folio LEs - it's a classic. Not everything has to be Ulysses to be worthy of LE treatment.

Take a passage like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWxnHuVEwUg

To me, that's literature.

29Uppernorwood
Apr. 15, 2022, 4:58 am

>25 English-bookseller: Go back to the abyss! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your master!

30mr.philistine
Apr. 15, 2022, 5:07 am

>24 A.Godhelm: They're not cranking out widgets but trying to nurture a niche market... I'd certainly like a better shot at getting the editions I desire at reasonable prices.

>25 English-bookseller: Does any work... merit the status of... Limited Edition?
(words cherry-picked to address the grander scheme)

Why a Limited Edition? In one word, luxury.

Exclusivity, craftsmanship, perfection, small numbers/ limitation, identity and uniqueness are all intrinsically bound with the concept of luxury. Unless one can guarantee these qualities to a maximum degree, releasing a 'limited edition' is an exercise in futility. If sales figures are the ultimate measure of success, then the above cannot apply since standing the test of time long after the creators have ceased association or ceased to exist even, is a different metric altogether.

Pascal Raffy, Owner of Bovet 1822 (luxury Swiss watchmaker) explains more here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYwdKpYy1O4&t=2m56s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q7S8jVwVCs

31strangenews
Apr. 15, 2022, 6:50 am

Diese Nachricht wurde vom Autor gelöscht.

32A.Godhelm
Apr. 15, 2022, 10:24 am

>30 mr.philistine: Not to get completely side tracked but the watch industry is a perfect example of the idea of exclusivity becoming greater than the products themselves. The secondary market prices are astronomical even for (already high priced mind you) watches of just 10, 20 years ago. Similar to most bubbles it's mainly driven by the idea that prices will just keep rising so getting a good brand and model is worth it at any cost.
There is a "rational" (even for a luxury item) price point lower than the hype price point and that's what I think people are all feeling (subject of many threads here). For now people are willing to pay out the difference on much the same idea as with Suntup, FS, Centipede - you can't really lose. However, with more and more private presses offering even more niche books at high quality levels, there's always a risk that the bubble will pop from competition. Other market issues like inflation and cost of living could swipe the feet from the base of demand.
It's relevant in as much as I've lived to see many "can't lose" bubbles leave people shirtless. Though I certainly hope there aren't people invested with floor to ceiling stacks of FS looking to flip them you never know.

33whytewolf1
Apr. 15, 2022, 12:16 pm

>30 mr.philistine: Very nice contribution to this continuing discussion.

34SDB2012
Bearbeitet: Apr. 15, 2022, 12:21 pm

>32 A.Godhelm: and it always seems to be the people who can least afford it who lose out in the end.

You raise a great point on the expanding number of fine presses offering popular books at high quality. I wonder if social media had existed during the George Macy LEC era if people would have speculated on his books the way we see with the publishers you mention. If I removed the ten or so most valuable LEC books from my collection, the other 70 or so have a lower market value than my Suntup Misery numbered edition. In ten years will that be the case?

Edit: That said, I'd love a FS LE of LOTR.

35What_What
Apr. 15, 2022, 1:20 pm

>23 wcarter: The FS is not doing anything different than they did 15 years ago, so I wouldn’t characterize them as “following this path,” so much that others have created a path to where the FS was all along.

36sekhmet0108
Apr. 15, 2022, 1:40 pm

I would live for it to be LOTR. If it's The Hobbit, I might not go for an LE.

But I still just have a paperback of LOTR because I never found an edition that I absolutely loved and was in my price range. If this turns out to be LOTR it would be my very first over 10€ LOTR edition, so I would like to get it. If however it is too expensive, then I might rethink a bit.

I will be disappointed if it turns out to be The Silmarillion or any of the others. As much as I love them, I don't need to own a limited edition of it.

37bacchus.
Bearbeitet: Apr. 15, 2022, 1:51 pm

>35 What_What: A few years ago LEs were on much higher supply (and lower demand). Keeping the low supply (when there's higher demand) sounds like a path taken; for better or worse.

38cronshaw
Apr. 15, 2022, 4:50 pm

>35 What_What: The FS is not doing anything different than they did 15 years ago

I can honestly think of fewer things the FS is doing the same as they did 15 years ago than things they're doing differently.

39mr.philistine
Bearbeitet: Apr. 17, 2022, 3:29 am

>32 A.Godhelm: While the benchmarks in >30 mr.philistine: may hold true for luxury watchmaking, I believe universal principles hold water across a wide range of applications.

>32 A.Godhelm: ..the watch industry is.. driven by the idea that prices will just keep rising so getting a good brand and model is worth it at any cost.

Assuming we are still discussing limited luxury items; such ideas may not be sufficient drivers for the genuine connoisseur/ collector with a disposable income to boot. I refer to those whose sole intention to purchase and preserve an item is for the pure joy and love of it and not one with an eye on turning a profit in the near or distant future. Pricing rationale, demand-supply equations, long-term investment plans and other trivialities that plague us mere mortals would not affect the decisions of such individuals.

>32 A.Godhelm: ..with more and more private presses offering even more niche books at high quality levels, there's always a risk that the bubble will pop from competition.

Presses that can meet all the criteria in >30 mr.philistine: need not fear competition or bubbles; so long as loyal patrons remain, of course. Surely a part of us yearns for items that meet timeless standards.

PS: There may be many sellers and investors today who are worthy connoisseurs in their own right, but I refer to one who is sui generis, for whom money and potential shirtlessness are of no consequence in matters close to the heart.

Edited to: improve phrasing :)

40Jeremy53
Apr. 15, 2022, 8:41 pm

It’s an interesting evolution of the entire print book market. I could’ve sworn by now sales of paperbacks at least would have fallen significantly. But as far as I can gather, worldwide things are looking peachy still.

But that seems in contrast to second hand book stores which are generally struggling. Online sales channels seems to be the biggest reason for this disparity in fortunes.

As for Folio, yes it seems to be getting the balance right between supply and demand.

And off the back of that is able to push for higher priced, higher quality productions, as the market is there for it.

Books (thus far) seemed to have avoided the fate of CDs, DVDs, and some other physical items that people just aren’t buying any more.

As for me, my collection is much more curated now. And yes, focusing on nicer editions that are pure pleasure to look at, hold and read. I’ve stopped accumulating paperbacks altogether and have got rid of most. (And there’s always the library)

41antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 15, 2022, 9:28 pm

>40 Jeremy53: Just to note that if you look at sales figures CD’s are actually increasing in sales & are having a resurgence (similar to the vinyl resurgence over recent years). In the US alone CD sales rose from 31.6 million in 2020 to 46.6 million in 2021, and revenue rose from $483.2 million to $584.2 million - with over half a billion dollars in sales in the US alone last year I’m not sure you can describe CD as a format ‘that people just aren't buying anymore’.
Even DVD’s still sell around 300 Million units per year (even though, unlike CD’s, DVD’s have been superseded twice by better quality formats - Blu-ray & 4K UHD & these newer formats had as much to do with the reduction in DVD sales as non-physical formats.)

42Hamwick
Apr. 15, 2022, 9:41 pm

>41 antinous_in_london: I am not surprised about the DVD sales continuing, as some older shows can only be watched now, by finding the old dvd version. The increase in CD sales surprises me though.

43Shadekeep
Apr. 15, 2022, 10:33 pm

I'm still a regular buyer of physical media, though more and more my book purchases are fine press or obscure titles. I'd honestly rather have an ebook than a paperback these days, and those also help my physical library from becoming unmanageable.

I regularly buy CDs and DVD/Blu-rays as well. I suspect service fragmentation is driving some of the ongoing demand for these, it certainly is for me. A lot of the media I buy simply doesn't exist on streaming services, and those which do are scattered over so many proprietary channels now that that my monthly streaming bill would be in multiple hundreds if I signed up to access everything I want. It's actually more economical for me just to buy those titles outright, particularly as streaming services rapidly come to embody Sturgeon's Law.

44antinous_in_london
Apr. 15, 2022, 10:48 pm

>43 Shadekeep: Totally agree - a lot of things I’d want to watch aren't even on streaming sites as they're older or more obscure. Some films you have to chase across several sites as they move from Netflix to Amazon to Disney etc which can end up costing a fortune. Recently as well a lot of these streaming sites have been editing (censoring if you like) content so the versions you see on streaming sites often aren’t the same as originally shown/broadcast & have been edited without the creators knowledge or consent. (One Marvel show that premiered on Disney+ last year was digitally edited by Disney at the end of last year without telling anyone, so they could reduce the age rating on the content to get more younger viewers.)

45Jeremy53
Apr. 16, 2022, 2:27 am

Sturgeon’s law - thanks, had forgotten about that one. Always makes me think of baroque music for some reason.

I’m genuinely surprised people are still buying so many CDs and DVDs. I haven’t bought for either for a decade, at least. (And I had quite a few, and you can pick them up in bulk lots these days)

But yes, maybe it’s about the quality of the item, as with fine press and Folio etc.

46terebinth
Apr. 16, 2022, 5:09 am

Whereas my surprise has been that CDs have become something of a niche market - about one a year per six inhabitants of the US seems to justify the tag. I was a late and reluctant adopter in 1988 when some of the releases I wanted to hear stopped happening on LP, but haven't looked back since: probably just a dozen or so purchases a year now, plus the occasional boxed collection. Downloading, like paperbacks, is a last resort with me for when there's no other option at a tolerable price: new additions to the shelves of vinyl and shellac are rare...

47ambyrglow
Bearbeitet: Apr. 16, 2022, 8:07 am

>45 Jeremy53: I can say that my partner, an audiophile, continues buying CDs because he finds the MP3 encoding used on most music sold for direct digital download inferior. He rips them to FLAC files and discards the CDs.

I can't hear the slightest difference, but he doesn't understand why I care about sewn bindings, so, fair enough.

48Evelyn2108
Apr. 16, 2022, 8:41 am

I buy most of the programs my children watch on DVD. Kids like to watch the same thing over and over, so it makes sense from a monetary perspective. Number one reason though, it makes it easy to preview the content they watch.

49boldface
Apr. 16, 2022, 11:02 am

I maintain an online database of recordings in digital media for a society devoted to one of Britain's leading composers. As a result, I audition dozens of recordings a year and make it a point to acquire every relevant release for my own collection. (This can seriously deplete my book budget, but that's another matter.) The point is that I still buy CDs wherever possible because they come with artwork and information in the form of a handy booklet. Background information on recording dates, venues, etc., is vital for my purpose. Streaming sites are worse than useless in this respect and are sometimes downright misleading. Downloads, which I use as a last resort, often come with no digital booklet at all or a cut-down version.

I buy DVDs and Blu-rays for the same reasons as those given above.

50ironjaw
Bearbeitet: Apr. 16, 2022, 11:05 am

>49 boldface: As soon as the internet is down (I’ve had two occasions this week already) you lose access to streaming. I’m not for streaming and monthly subscription but am forced to subscribe to Apple One family plan and Netflix at the request of an irritating teenager

51wcarter
Apr. 16, 2022, 6:01 pm

Fascinating how this thread has morphed from a discussion on a new Tolkien LE to one on music CDs. Amazing!

52Shadekeep
Apr. 16, 2022, 7:25 pm

>47 ambyrglow: I'm not an audiophile either, but FLAC is superior to MP3 if you are. I did waveform analysis for a company that was looking to offer both formats, and MP3s truncate the upper range of the spectrum. Granted, it's pretty much something only a connoisseur picks up on, but there is a genuine difference. Some of the classical/neoclassical sites I buy from offer FLAC downloads now too, but having the CD is the surest way of ripping to the encoding you want.

Circling back to the topic, I am still hoping this proves to be The Hobbit. I would love to see Smaug and his treasure hoard rendered by this artist.

53A.Godhelm
Apr. 16, 2022, 8:31 pm

How about this for an on topic question; if it's not Hobbit or LOTR; meaning it's Silmarillion or Unfinished Tales or - god help us - the entire History of Middle Earth, or the stand alone versions of Beren and Lúthien, Children of Húrin and Fall of Gondolin; are you still interested? More interested?

54Shadekeep
Apr. 16, 2022, 9:41 pm

>53 A.Godhelm: Definitely interested in the Silmarillion as well. The other stuff, less so. Almost certainly not enough to pay Limited Edition prices for them.

55Jeremy53
Apr. 17, 2022, 1:53 am

Thanks all, very enlightening (sorry to take the discussion down a rabbit/hobbit hole).

My bet is on The Hobbit. Then, LoTR if sales go well.

Would I buy that, or other Tolkien? No, quite happy with my early 2000s Folio - I like them; the woodcuts are great. And I’ve never read Silmarillion or his other writings - I’m a fan, just not that big a fan.

56strangenews
Apr. 17, 2022, 2:06 am

Diese Nachricht wurde vom Autor gelöscht.

57mr.philistine
Bearbeitet: Apr. 17, 2022, 6:21 am

>51 wcarter: Perhaps this trend is symptomatic of larger phenomena which the more erudite among us might care to elaborate on.

Edited to add:
Speaking of morphing, Tolkien and music, look what I found!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaHRFlPCtsU
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_the_Rings_(musical) -->> https://bit.ly/38KBjof

58Evelyn2108
Apr. 18, 2022, 1:34 pm

It would be weird if the LE was the Hobbit because Bilbo doesn’t find the ring in a stream, he finds it in a tunnel.

Hoping it’s LOTR.

59ultrarightist
Apr. 18, 2022, 2:55 pm

>58 Evelyn2108: But Gollum found the ring in a stream (strictly speaking, his friend did, but you get the point).

60mr.philistine
Apr. 18, 2022, 5:26 pm

>33 whytewolf1: Just found this post on the FPF and this point is argued more eloquently than I ever could. https://www.librarything.com/topic/334152

61whytewolf1
Apr. 18, 2022, 8:45 pm

>60 mr.philistine: Thanks. I'll be sure to check it out. :)

62Evelyn2108
Apr. 19, 2022, 10:54 am

>59 ultrarightist: Yes, Gollum does find it in a stream, but isn’t that discussed somewhere in LOTR? I just finished reading the Hobbit aloud to my kids, and there is no context in that story where ring in a river imagery occurs. I suppose they could make that the end papers anyhow, but it wouldn’t fit the story.

63assemblyman
Apr. 19, 2022, 11:18 am

>62 Evelyn2108: It was discussed in the Fellowship as I recall though it has been a while since I last read it. Gandalf was telling Frodo what he pieced together of Gollum's history and the finding of the ring (though it was actually Deagol that found it).

64woodstock8786
Apr. 19, 2022, 11:42 am

I just got a reply on my Instagram comment, if they might release some more information prior to selling it:

„Hi, we will not be releasing the details before we start selling. The product will be live on our website at 2pm(BST) tomorrow.“

65treereader
Apr. 19, 2022, 3:16 pm

>64 woodstock8786:
BST = Bookworm Standard Time

66woodstock8786
Apr. 19, 2022, 3:32 pm

>65 treereader: 😂 or is it Bookworm Summer Time? Definitely not Bookworm Savings Time 😅

67cwl
Apr. 20, 2022, 12:59 am

“The product”. Their terminology speaks volumes. Anyway, stay tuned this afternoon for a chance at some speculative flipping!

68bacchus.
Apr. 20, 2022, 2:33 am

>67 cwl: I'm also very much leaning on the idea that this is not what everyone expects - even if the clues seem obvious.

69A.Godhelm
Apr. 20, 2022, 4:02 am

I'm gonna be mighty miffed if this was all for some art book or similar third order material.

70woodstock8786
Apr. 20, 2022, 5:07 am

I also stumbled about "the product", does it mean they don't want to say it's more than one book or maybe not a book at all? We will find out.

71bacchus.
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 5:35 am

Last (wishful) guess :)
Considering it's unprecedented for FS, as far as I know, to release an LE while an older SE is in stock this could be another SE in the series (or SE+LE at same time, which could explain the heads up and the fair timing). Also preannouncing LEs (even if only teasing) is not something FS is used to - as far as I remember we learn about new LEs after they appear on the website.

72Folio_Fanatic
Apr. 20, 2022, 5:56 am

Haunting of Hill House was released at a particular pre-announced time.

They’ve also tagged their Instagram post #limitededition so I’m sure it’s a limited edition or perhaps a limited and a standard version like Hill House.

73AHub
Apr. 20, 2022, 6:06 am

The cat is out of the bag: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjtnDLt7ZSo&t=58s

https://lithub.com/alan-lee-on-illustrating-j-r-r-tolkiens-the-lord-of-the-rings...

The only question is the price and the number of copies they produced.

74Kargish
Apr. 20, 2022, 6:07 am

>73 AHub: Says 1,000 in the video description.

75AHub
Apr. 20, 2022, 6:09 am

>74 Kargish: Well spotted!

76Kargish
Apr. 20, 2022, 6:11 am

>75 AHub: Now been removed, or rather set to private, so just in time too!

77coffeewithastraw
Apr. 20, 2022, 6:13 am

50 illustrations is nice. I’m sure it will be price prohibitive.

The cover design didn’t grab me.

78bacchus.
Apr. 20, 2022, 6:15 am

>73 AHub: >74 Kargish: Sweet! The limitation seems very fair

79red_guy
Apr. 20, 2022, 6:24 am

So this must be a gussied up version of the Harper Collins Alan Lee set? Presumably with LE Hobbit to come, in that case.

80cronshaw
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 8:40 am

>77 coffeewithastraw: I agree, the binding design looks positively uninspired, ugly even, far less attractive than the previous LoTR LE and the earlier FS standard bindings. However, in keeping with the new, more commercial FS, there's plenty of add-on gimmickry (slipcase decorated inside, fold out map, extra print, top edges silver, presumably also ribbon markers and the artist's signature on a separate piece of paper, tipped-in) to compensate. I'm grateful I'm not tempted.

81adriano77
Apr. 20, 2022, 6:32 am

Looks okay, not a fan of LOTR though, so nothing they did could have really grabbed me I suppose. Hopefully everyone here that wants a copy can get one.

82A.Godhelm
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 6:59 am

>73 AHub:
Great find!
The binding is very subdued indeed, compared to the previous all leather LE. I thought it was Alan Lee from the promo picture and indeed it is - huge boon to me. It will overlap the HarperCollins set significantly but according to the lithub link he's added new illustrations and edited old ones. All that's missing is a reasonable price point.

83AHub
Apr. 20, 2022, 6:53 am

>82 A.Godhelm: Yes, Lee has done a fair bit of work on this edition despite them using the HarperCollins illustrations: 57 new chapter headings, the borders for the illustrations, and then 'Lee’s original illustrations have been reproduced to the artist’s exacting standards, in a scale and quality never seen before, and have been augmented by several entirely new images, including enchanting endpapers depicting the One Ring long before it came into Frodo’s possession, three frontispieces, two revised versions of existing illustrations, a new image titled ‘The Grey Havens’ and an exclusive giclée print.'

I'm not sure - at least viewing it on the screen - that the binding is very impressive. They certainly haven't gone for anything particularly original with this one, which while I can understand given the context of its genre and fan base, does seem a bit of a let down. The deluxe slipcased editions of the Silmarillion and Unfinished tales already available also use a tipped in illustration on the front cover, for example.

84Jobasha
Apr. 20, 2022, 6:56 am

>82 A.Godhelm:

I believe the previous LE was also only quarter bound, but the slipcase was also fully leather bound.

85A.Godhelm
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 7:06 am

>84 Jobasha: You're absolutely right, I mixed it up.
>83 AHub: Thanks for the added details from the video. They made it private before I had a chance to snoop. I certainly feel a lot better being able to ponder this without the immediate time pressure of copies flying away.

86assemblyman
Apr. 20, 2022, 7:09 am

>80 cronshaw: There does seem to be an LE template being used for some of the LEs lately. I don't know what I think of it fully yet from the brief look I have had. I am getting a Game of Thrones rehash vibe so far in terms of some of the design. I like Alan Lee's art but using him for multiple iterations of the same books comes off as repetitive. Ideally I would of liked a fresh imagining of Tolkien's world for an LE. The price will be interesting given that the limitation is 1000 and it is using mostly existing art. Though from an FS point of view it will sell out easily so it's a win for them.

87bacchus.
Apr. 20, 2022, 7:11 am

>80 cronshaw: I'm grateful I'm not tempted.

I'm also relieved - the design didn't click.

88A.Godhelm
Apr. 20, 2022, 7:22 am

>86 assemblyman: Game of Thrones rehash vibe
The interior design on the inside of the slipcase and the fold out map is a similar format yes. I think AHub has a point in it looking almost conservative on the whole. GoT had much more bombast in the design. Although this might be a good thing when I try to imagine alternative design choices.

89wcarter
Apr. 20, 2022, 7:26 am

From the now deleted video.


90DMulvee
Apr. 20, 2022, 7:35 am

This is so disappointing. On the fence now.

91Nerevarine
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 7:50 am

The previous LOTR limited edition (bound in goatskin and silk) is far, far more attractive. I’m kind of disappointed in the upcoming LE based on this screenshot. I do like the separate map though.

I’d rather have the previous FS LE alongside the HarperCollins illustrated set. There’s way less overlap this way. Still open to see more in about an hour.

92assemblyman
Apr. 20, 2022, 7:48 am

>88 A.Godhelm: Yes it is things like that which reminded me of it though maps are a given when it comes to Lord of the Rings. I definitely don't dislike it looking at the image below (thank you Warwick). I am on the fence on this.

93punkzip
Apr. 20, 2022, 7:51 am

One positive is that given the likely high cost and the 1000 limitation there should be plenty of time to decide.

94DMulvee
Apr. 20, 2022, 7:51 am

The video is working again

95mr.philistine
Apr. 20, 2022, 7:55 am

>94 DMulvee: But still unlisted.

96FitzJames
Apr. 20, 2022, 7:58 am

>91 Nerevarine: Quite agree there; I don't think the goatskin & silk is going to be usurped anytime soon. This seems rather a lacklustre misfire.

97A.Godhelm
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:02 am

>94 DMulvee: The video is working again
Thanks for the heads up.
Posting the link again for visibility: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjtnDLt7ZSo
They're certainly larger than they appeared from the photos.

98Shadekeep
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:11 am

Hurm, I'm not as impressed as I hoped to be. And it's a picayune point, but the color choices for the binding (specifically the red and the blue) don't say LoTR to me. I can't quite pin it down, but the colors seem better suited to a different genre of novels than fantasy. As I say, it's a minor point, but I find it dissonant.

99lagartija23
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:15 am

It's a pass from me I'm afraid. The binding doesn't look appropriate for the theme and definitely doesn't look worth what will certainly be a very high price. Bit of a shame really, I would've been interested if they'd done something with the binding worthy of the content.

100woodstock8786
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 8:29 am

Funny, I said on Instagram that the illustrations look like Alan Lee‘s and at once people jumped at me and said it couldn’t be.

The cover design is not to my liking, it doesn’t fit somehow. Doesn’t tempt me to add a fifth LotR to my shelves.
I bet the price will make me even more sure about that in 45mins

I bet Lithub gets thrashed right about now, they removed the page

101Hamwick
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:21 am

Hmm, tough one. Looking at the video, I prefer this to the current SE on offer, mainly due to the Alan Lee illustrations.
I was hoping it would be 9”x6” or similar, size wise, however it looks significantly larger than that. The leather is quite minimal and I am a bit concerned about the picture on the front rubbing off. Basically I was hoping for a version that was nice to hold, a good size (not too big), durable, with Alan Lee illustrations. That was my wish list though! The hidden (secret?) illustration in the slipcase, the separate map and ribbon are not selling points for me.
As we all know, there are a lot of versions of the Lord of the Rings out there and I was looking to buy a new set. I will have to think more on this.

102UK_History_Fan
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:26 am

>73 AHub:
Thanks for the preview. I quite like the design actually. And while I will always prefer full leather, at least they stayed away from the ubiquitous and boring Easton Press green and gold. Price will be interesting, but as I don't own a deluxe edition (neither the former Folio LE or any of the Harper Collins), this is a likely buy for me, depending on final price (with shipping and tax).

103UK_History_Fan
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 8:30 am

Also, isn't this similar in design to the Alan Lee illustrated LE The Wanderer which I own and love?

I just looked it up - I paid $640 for the single volume The Wanderer which makes me fear this LOTR LE will exceed $2000 delivered. Ouch.

104woodstock8786
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:31 am

>100 woodstock8786: You still have 30mins to think 😅

105ubiquitousuk
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:33 am

I'm not personally a fan of the design. I find it a bit gaudy, and I also don't like colour illustrations in decorative borders (the recent Dracula was a no for me for the same reason). The silver lining is that this might push down the price of the early 2000s LEs, which I do find quite attractive.

106DMulvee
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:35 am

The last LOTR LE that sold on eBay was £629 + £9.50 P&P. I’m thinking I might start hunting that version second hand, as I prefer the look of that

107lagartija23
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:37 am

>106 DMulvee: Compared to what this will cost and with how strong the binding design is on that edition, it'd be well worth it!

108cronshaw
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:46 am

>105 ubiquitousuk: Just what I was thinking! Apart from the far more beautiful and original binding design, the full-leather bound slipcase (with scalloped front edges following the curves of the spines) makes the original LE feel very structurally robust. No need for gimmicks.

109Kargish
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:49 am

£1000....

110Trand25
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:49 am

111Mr.Fox
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:49 am

$1500 USD!!!

112adriano77
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:53 am

That... seems high.

113lagartija23
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:54 am

That does not look like £1000 worth of books. The binding looks like £100 a volume at most.

114c_schelle
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:54 am

I like the set, but I don't like it enough for £1000 plus shipping and customs fees. I would rather stick with the four sets I already own and have the 1972 FS version nicely rebound.

115Shadekeep
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:56 am

Yes, that's a pass for me.

116chrisrsprague
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:56 am

$1500 USD? LOL. Have fun, speculators.

117cronshaw
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 8:58 am

Why on earth is the symbol beneath the spine title of the second volume so misaligned compared to the other two? This is a design travesty. Please come back, Joe Whitlock-Blundell.

118antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 9:03 am

Owww- they listed it 5 minutes early - £1000 !!!??! To me this seems a bit underwhelming- i had hoped they might have been slightly more adventurous (like they did with the recent Dante LE with the drawer box) but a cloth slipcase & 3 volumes with colour illustrations on the front of each volume that will get rubbed every time you take it out of the case isn’t going to set the world alight !

119DMulvee
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:58 am

Before I saw pictures or the video I would have thought that £1000 for a 1000 copy LE was good value. But it just looks cheap. I’m not sure how much they spent on the illustrator but the production values of the book matter and yet the current SE is more attractive

120Hrodberht
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:59 am

Yikes! £1,000

121Shadekeep
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:00 am

>117 cronshaw: I was going to complain about the exact same thing. The only thing I can think of is that the designer liked the idea of the symbols arranged in a triangle. Otherwise it is sheer bad design, deciding to offset the symbol from the end of the title instead of the FS logo.

122Hamwick
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:01 am

Wow, pass from me as well. If this was a version similar to the recent Dante LE, then yes. I would pay £1000. It is not though and there are plenty of good alternatives available. Such a shame.

123woodstock8786
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:01 am

Pass for me as well. I am glad actually. But just wait. 15 minutes tops and it will be gone

124lagartija23
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:02 am

>121 Shadekeep: I can see what they're going for with the highlight of the top of the tower. It still looks wrong though; would certainly stand out and bug me if it was on my shelf!

125owf_117
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:02 am

I can't even get on the website, I keep getting a message about essential maintenance being performed. From the sounds of it I'm going to have to pass on it anyway.

126adriano77
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:02 am

>117 cronshaw:

Wow. That's a horrid choice.

127Aleks3000
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:03 am

>117 cronshaw: It looks like there is an impression of the Dark Tower with the eye atop it. Agree that it looks odd.

A pass for me. $2,250 in Australia!

128adamsw216
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:03 am

>117 cronshaw: There are faint designs debossed into the leather at the base of the spine along with the silver printing. The second volume has a tower with the Eye of Sauron at the top. Not saying it looks great, but that's why it's placed like that.

129AHub
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:03 am

Well, at that price, it's an easy pass for me. Maybe Gormenghast will hit the spot.

130Pellias
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:04 am

I am too brutal of a man to be dealing with such high costing editions, and I firmly believe I would do just as good with a nice ordinary edition. On collectible terms only, it would suit my collection perfectly, but as a reading edition, not so much. I drag books around, into the forest, to the beach, keeping them around my sun lotioned body lying around. I would have to wash my hands before reading, and just too much preparation just to read.

May the lord our saviour, Odin make you all very happy (reading the Norse Myths again, which would fit this publication like a glove, but alas I have lost my glove).

Nice, but I would have to sacrifice my eye, which I don`t feel like. If it`s still there in a month or two, who knows ..

Precious !

131Nerevarine
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:05 am

That’s also a pass for me at that price. And quite an easy one. I’ll hunt for the previous FS LE to go along my Hobbit LE.

132wongie
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:06 am

I really don't understand Folios obsession of the last few years with separate maps.

133UK_History_Fan
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:06 am

I can't get into their website anyway - argh!!!!

134Pellias
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:07 am

>133 UK_History_Fan: Maybe if you had a separate map !

135bacchus.
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:07 am

>117 cronshaw: >121 Shadekeep: looks like an off-kilter aesthetic choice indeed. Even the offset from the end of the title is not aligned (nor is the symbol centered between colophon and title).

136assemblyman
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:07 am

It's a bit of a relief that I find it really overpriced. It's nice but not that nice. I have been thinking of getting a three volume for a while as I currently only have the Harper Collins deluxe one volume. I might just invest in one of the older FS versions.

137Inceptic
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:09 am

Eww, I can't believe how hideous it looks. I was expecting something sophisticated like the recent Dante. Solid pass for me.

138Shadekeep
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 9:10 am

>128 adamsw216: Ah, now that you point it out, I can see it. Not sure that was the best design decision still, but at least there is a kind of logic to it, with the burning eye lording over the rest.

>129 AHub: I could definitely get behind an excellent edition of Gormenghast. Here's hoping it's a worthy one!

139rsmac
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:09 am

Kind of tacky. It looks like a Barnes and Noble classic but with better materials.

I really question their color schemes and art choices in a lot of their releases. At these prices the art direction should be on point and this just isn't.

140lagartija23
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:11 am

Over the past few years, almost all of the new LE releases look cheaper to me than a lot of their SE releases.

141Nerevarine
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:12 am

$2000 CAD…

Whew 😅

142vmb443
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:12 am

The website is a total mess - ugh. I am going to reiterate my comment above - the pre-posting of release days and times is something I hope will not become the norm. Utterly frustrating.

143A.Godhelm
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:13 am

I can't even add it to a basket to see what the grand total would come to. The website is borked and throwing up maintenance errors. I guess this is the price of announcing an LE early.

144PeterFitzGerald
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:13 am

>133 UK_History_Fan: "I can't get into their website anyway - argh!!!!"

Neither can I. I can't place it my basket or login.

145treereader
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:13 am

USA website is slammed. Barely able to log in. Definitely can't add it to my basket. What a joke.

146ubiquitousuk
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:15 am

Now that everyone is £1000 better off, do have a wander over to the Fine Press Forum where the locals will gladly explain how to spend £1000 on an exemplar of the best fine press publishing of the last 150 years. We're talking vellum, handmade paper, full letterpress, the very best wood engravers, low triple-digit limitations, bespoke typefaces cut for the press.

147tyreas
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:16 am

I like it but it feels more like a 500£ set. I probably would have bought it at 600£, but 1000£ seems overpriced.

148antinous_in_london
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:16 am

>125 owf_117: Yes, they announce a Tolkien LE release for a specific time then don’t bother to prepare their website to handle the increased traffic so the site immediately goes down!

149Shadekeep
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:17 am

>139 rsmac: It looks like a Barnes and Noble classic but with better materials.

My god, that is it exactly. I was thinking it looked somewhat like the old Time-Life book series, but you really nailed it.

And I know it's gauche to talk price while discussing fine press, but when I see how many other FS titles I could get at once for the price of this set, it truly loses its shine. This is one precious I won't be coveting.

150ubiquitousuk
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:17 am

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be possible to do the add to basket trick and check how it's selling because they've limited to 2 per customer.

151UK_History_Fan
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:18 am

>144 PeterFitzGerald:
Phone line is no better. They said all agents were busy and they would call me back. I doubt the website works any better for them. I got to my basket but it is stuck on delivery methods, when there is no choice for an LE so that seems just poor.

152cronshaw
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 9:26 am

>127 Aleks3000: >128 adamsw216: thanks for pointing that out. It's still a big miss for me.

>146 ubiquitousuk: Absolutely!

153Pellias
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:19 am

>133 UK_History_Fan: >144 PeterFitzGerald: You two need to have the separate map !
-
Feels good in a way. Important, money saved. However much fan I am of Lana Lee. Sorry, Alan Lee. Though, a proud owner of the wanderer, which will be my comfort.

154UK_History_Fan
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:21 am

21 minutes after release and I still cannot check out!!!

Epic fail.

155A.Godhelm
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:24 am

Making the editions so limited you can't even buy them is a bold new move.

156UK_History_Fan
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 9:27 am

Finally got to the payment screen but now it is just spinning the credit card authorization. I'm sure I will need to verify with Visa for the large amount purchased in a foreign country to proceed, but this is taking forever.

Edited to add, but I am trying to wait so I don't end up with multiple orders and charges. The website does now appear to be proceeding from screen to screen but at an unusually glacial pace.

157Pellias
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:26 am

>155 A.Godhelm: .. well, not all animals are equal. We know as much. "Tolkien. Now available (for some)"

158adamsw216
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:27 am

Well, if the clogged website and phone lines are any indication, Folio Society will feel vindicated on their pricing/valuation of this set.

159cronshaw
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:27 am

Vladimir Putin could have made a better job of launching a limited edition.

160SDB2012
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:28 am

I made it to a check out screen and two copies were in the cart... I can't remove one without it crashing. This may save me money.

161assemblyman
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:28 am

>146 ubiquitousuk: I tender to only dip in and out of there. To much enablement :).

162UK_History_Fan
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:30 am

>160 SDB2012:
I had the exact same problem!

163woodstock8786
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:30 am

I mean come on, £1,000, that is too much for that. Especially without ever seeing it. I think you might get the same thrill with a Harper Collins edition illustrated by Lee...
But of course, whoever buys it, I hope you love it and please tell us how it looks and feels when it arrives!

164PeterFitzGerald
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:31 am

>158 adamsw216: "Well, if the clogged website and phone lines are any indication, Folio Society will feel vindicated on their pricing/valuation of this set."

Yes, but if their new approach to ordering (or non-ordering, more accurately) annoys their long-standing customers, it may up being a strategic misfire.

(It's also annoying that their website keeps claiming that it is "currently unavailable due to essential maintenance work", when it's obvious that it's a traffic issue.)

165A.Godhelm
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:33 am

Well my friend just managed to get his order confirmation so copies are being sold right now. You apparently just have to get lucky.

166c_schelle
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:33 am

I got to the checkout for a grand total of £1,139.55 delivered to Germany. That's definetly more than I was willing to pay.

167UK_History_Fan
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:34 am

This is ludicrous. At this point it is a competition to see what takes longer: the Folio website to process my order or my laptop battery to completely drain.

168SDB2012
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:34 am

>162 UK_History_Fan: Well, I'm going out for a cuppa. Perhaps, when I return, the situation will be fixed. I'm guessing these books will be much better in hand than what is expected in many of these posts. We'll know in a few days.

169Shadekeep
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:34 am

The site seems fairly responsive again here. I was able to add the book to the basket and remove it again. I suspect checkout is probably still lagging, since it involves external authorisations. I wonder if the site was crashing from a frenzy of buying, or just from a frenzy of people checking out the title? It would be interesting to see how many viewed it versus how many actually made a purchase.

170sdawson
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 9:37 am

USA web site is just a mess at this time. But it doesn't matter I guess. At $500 per book it is too expensive. And, as it is missing The Hobbit, it seems incomplete to me. I believe their earlier 5 books are just fine. So will reserve the money for something else.

P.S. By just a mess, what I mean is that can not log in. I simply get the 'could not authenticate' message.

P.P.S. And now I get the 'web site is down for maintenance' message.

171PeterFitzGerald
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:35 am

I just managed to get my order through - a mere 32 minutes after I started!

172mpreed
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:37 am

For those complaining about the price, don't forget that you also get a 'Folio Bestsellers Flyer' as a free gift! Whatever the heck that is.

173A.Godhelm
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 9:37 am

>170 sdawson: With this response to the LE, I think we can rest assured The Hobbit LE will be appearing. Perhaps even more.
> 172 Free firestarter for your furnace isn't nothing.

174mr.philistine
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:38 am

>130 Pellias: I am too brutal of a man... around my sun lotioned body...

That's unacceptably brutal to conceptualize, almost as brutal as today's release! :~)

175sdawson
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:41 am

>173 A.Godhelm:
You are likely correct.

176boldface
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:41 am

Well, at least FS now has access to the corrected text. The appearance is quite nice, I suppose - almost in series with the Martin books. But isn't it time to give Alan Lee a rest? His illustrations are (or were when we first saw them) stunning but they've been around now for what? 15 years or so? Ok, so there are a few new ones, but I wish FS had been bold and commissioned a new artist with vision. Still Alan Lee is the safe option and will ensure the market pounces on the 'product'. The secondary market will soon be brimming over again with eye-watering offers in the stratosphere.

177Uppernorwood
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:45 am

I like it, the colours and design look good to me.

I don’t need it though, and certainly don’t want it enough to pay £1,000.

However I don’t view the price as extraordinary. That’s what 3 partially leather bound volumes cost in these post-inflation days, especially with 56 newly commissioned illustrations from a world renowned artist, with all copies signed.

As an aside, I would pay £50-75 for a large sized book of all the illustrations in an instant, they look gorgeous.

178adamsw216
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:47 am

>176 boldface:
Even older than that. Alan Lee did the illustrations for the 1992 Centenary Edition of LoTR, so they're at least 30 years old now.

179Mr.Fox
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:48 am

I got my order confirmation at 5:55am PST, five minutes before the announced release time. Thankfully, I was able to get through checkout a few minutes early, because the site was useless at 6:00am.

180behemoththecat
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:48 am

For those wiser than myself, which HarperCollins LOTR books are most recommended? I’m interested in the Hobbit too!

181Joshbooks1
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:49 am

God, Folio has been tackier and more disappointing as time moves onward. First, being a US citizen, I am charged an extra $200 (who knows why) and to top that off $80 for shipping and $93 for taxes. $1673 is now in the ball park of Thornwillow's half-leather Ulysses or Arion's Don Quixote subscriber price. As >146 ubiquitousuk: correctly points out this LE is no where close to anything in the fine press world in terms of quality, material, and production. The previous LOTR LE folio produced in 2008 or 2009, which I think is far more attractive with better materials, was only £275. Folio has lost their minds and the customer is getting hosed.

182ian_curtin
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:49 am

Folio have just tweeted: "Hello everybody. Thank you for your interest in our new limited edition of The Lord of the Rings. We have an unprecedented number of people on the website, and this has caused some of you to not be able to visit the page. Please don't worry – we still have plenty of copies available, and hope to be back up soon. We promise it will be worth the wait!"
https://twitter.com/foliosociety/status/1516773230564061192?s=20&t=J17RZIC4e...

183adamsw216
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:53 am

>180 behemoththecat:
If you like the Alan Lee illustrations, I would recommend the more recent illustrated set that includes The Hobbit: ISBN 978-0008376109

184ian_curtin
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:53 am

Have to say I quite dislike the design - and, although "Folio have done it before!" is a tired enough complaint, collectors of Tolkien editions seem to be a uniquely well-served constituency of readers. The price though is ludicrous in my view - with the caveat that it makes the Dante LE look (retrospectively) a snip.

185Dr.Fiddy
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:56 am

Finally, but wow!!! That took me more than an hour...

186vmb443
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:57 am

56 minutes and finally ordered.

Dear Mole, please never do this again.

187ambyrglow
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:58 am

As apparently the sole LotR fan to dislike Alan Lee’s art style (though the man himself seems lovely in interviews), this is an easy pass.

188UK_History_Fan
Apr. 20, 2022, 10:00 am

Well that was a royal F*** up! Not only did it take me 57 minutes to get an order to go through (I ended up closing my initial purchase window - I better not end up with two copies!) but I figured a good way around the Visa verification was to use Apple Pay in my second purchase attempt.

Unfortunately, I am on a new laptop and my default card for Apple Pay was not the one with the best cash back so I lost 1% on the transaction which cost me an additional $17. These books better be worth it and I better not end up with a high number!

189boldface
Apr. 20, 2022, 10:00 am

>178 adamsw216:

Yes, of course, I had that one (my son has it now).

190coffeewithastraw
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 10:08 am

>181 Joshbooks1: Exactly. Plus these illustrations- though I like them- are everywhere. New ones are what I would expect for the outrageous price and even less of an outrageous price. Also - the cover.

Edit: Weirdly the silver design on the slipcase I like. Had something like that been on the book cover I would have liked it a lot more. The price for US customers would have still made me not go for it, however I might have been slightly more tempted.

191Shadekeep
Apr. 20, 2022, 10:02 am

From the product description:

this is the finest version of Tolkien’s beloved masterpiece

Is it really? I'd be curious as to what edition collectors here think deserve that description.

192UK_History_Fan
Apr. 20, 2022, 10:05 am

I recognize that is a minor lost savings compared to the overall purchase price (well 1% actually), but it just adds insult to injury and sours me on this whole experience. I half considered just forgoing the order altogether when it was stuck in Spinland for nearly 1 full hour.

Not a great way to engender continued loyalty from long time customers who have spent a considerable fortune on Folio products during their lifetime.

193BorisG
Apr. 20, 2022, 10:16 am

>187 ambyrglow: You’re not the only one :) easy pass for me too.

And I echo the prevailing feeling that the design feels a bit cheap. Relieved in a way, as had the production been a top-shelf FS LE, LotR would have been extremely enticing.

194vmb443
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 10:37 am

>192 UK_History_Fan: I agree completely with your sentiment. I do not like this new system which they have used for this and the LE Haunting of Hill House - the whole process was so frustrating I almost walked away.

The price is shocking - especially compared to the Dante which is outstanding, but if, for some reason, I do not like them in the flesh, I figure I can always recoup my money on the secondary market. I actually like the design from what I can see. I like the illustrations too - I do not own a nice version of the books and since I am not only a book collector but more specifically a Folio Society book collector, I was willing to go for them. It’ll sap the reserve book fund a bit, but I am anxious to receive them and don’t regret my purchase.

195bacchus.
Apr. 20, 2022, 10:33 am

A sentiment analysis on this thread would look very sad..

196HowardEriksonWolfe
Apr. 20, 2022, 10:36 am

I simply can’t wrap my head around why Folio would choose to charge US customers an additional $200 just for being in the US. Conversation rate at the moment has 1000 pounds equal to 1304 dollars ….not that I was planning to pay anywhere near that, regardless

197coynedj
Apr. 20, 2022, 10:38 am

I'm glad to say that my longstanding LE boycott remains firmly in place. I have better things to do with my money, and for that amount of money I can do several of those things, not just one!

198simbae
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 10:44 am

Contrary to a lot of sentiments here, I think the set is absolutely beautiful and the maroon makes the set royal. That being said, I don’t own a single LE due to prices and this price is out of my league and sadly so. Typical $100 and under SEs for me!

Dante set now seems like an amazing steal. But you can’t fault folio too much for wanting to get in the red early with a sure fire seller, and I agree they shouldn’t have played it safe and tried new illustrations.

199bradleyrees
Apr. 20, 2022, 10:47 am

I currently have 33 hardcover editions of LOTR (38 Hobbits and 18 Silmarillions) and just about everything else ever released. Yes, I'm a Tolkien nut. But this, like many other recent LE's, is underwhelming and overpriced at $2,250 AU plus postage. I'm actually quite happy that they've made this an easy decision because if it had been wonderful I would have taken the plunge whatever the cost.
I have the Silmarillion LE and although it's quite good I've never really been tempted to purchase the LOTR LE due to the inflated prices on the secondary market. What a joy it would have been if this had been a truly inspiring example of the book arts. But it isn't.

200punkzip
Apr. 20, 2022, 10:52 am

>196 HowardEriksonWolfe: I live in the US in a high tax state. LOTR LE is $1742 for me - not only do US customers not pay the exchange rate, there is also tax on the high $80 shipping cost (why?) which cannot be combined with other orders to defray. I understand Australian customers have it the worst though.

201Shadekeep
Apr. 20, 2022, 11:04 am

Given the speculation on books these days, kind of surprised it hasn't sold out yet, even given my own personal reservations about the release. In contrast, Suntup Editions had a scratch-and-dent sale yesterday and they were cleaned out in under an hour. No website issues during that, either. Apples and oranges, I know, but still illuminating.

202rsmac
Apr. 20, 2022, 11:09 am

>201 Shadekeep: re: Suntup sale

I refreshed the page five minutes into that sale and they were already down to two titles. It went fast.

203Shadekeep
Apr. 20, 2022, 11:15 am

>202 rsmac: Yes, I grabbed Imagica the moment the sale went live, and by the time I checked out a third of the offerings were sold out.

204EdmundRodriguez
Apr. 20, 2022, 12:05 pm

I love LOTR, so have picked this up. The old LE never really appealed (something about the design didn't work for me). I love the artwork and like the design. It's a book I'll probably re-read many times in my life (especially now I have to justify the £1000 cost...).

The last LE I purchased was Tristram Shandy, which seems like a bargain compared to this. Maybe inflation is really kicking in...

205strangenews
Apr. 20, 2022, 12:15 pm

Diese Nachricht wurde vom Autor gelöscht.

206whytewolf1
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 1:04 pm

It's funny, the avalanche of carping I'm seeing here and in the Facebook group reminds me of the continual criticisms I hear about the perfect lovely editions of Tolkien that EP has produced, which as some people complain, simply continue to sell and sell and sell...

207treereader
Apr. 20, 2022, 1:14 pm

I looked at the product on a larger screen. I would've paid $900 after tax and shipping for this implementation. I can put $1700 to better use.

Does anyone know whether these Alan Lee illustrations are comprised of just new work or if all of his Tolkien efforts are included?

208adamsw216
Apr. 20, 2022, 1:20 pm

>207 treereader: Most of the illustrations are from previous work. However, the endpaper artwork is new, as are the three frontispieces, the illustration borders, and the chapter headers.

209DMulvee
Apr. 20, 2022, 1:22 pm

>206 whytewolf1: I have definitely been surprised by my reaction! I think because I spent a couple of hours waiting for this to be released then been disappointed and decided against it, it has made me more bitter. They need to release information at the time the publicise the sale time, otherwise this causes frustration.

210antinous_in_london
Apr. 20, 2022, 1:25 pm

>207 treereader: “ In the new edition of The Lord of the Rings published by The Folio Society, I’ve been able to provide extra borders for the plates, creating more of the framing that J. R. R. Tolkien felt was essential to good book illustration… I have also taken advantage of the opportunity to replace and finesse some of the illustrations that I had completed in too much of a rush as the centenary deadline approached, as well as add some new ones.”

So seems like a couple of new ones & tweaks to ones he felt he rushed & wasn't happy with first time around!

211antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 1:52 pm

The recent Shirley Jackson LE (which was admittedly smaller, with a lower limitation & much lower price) used the same pre-announced release technique & sold out in under an hour. Given the extensive Tolkien fan-club i expected this one to fly, but 5 hours after release they haven't even put up the ‘over half sold’ banner.

I’m sure it’s selling well , but i wonder if its the price / the design or the value for money to price ratio that’s slowing it down (or the initial hour or 2 of bitterness & frustration caused by a crashing website !)

212whytewolf1
Apr. 20, 2022, 1:58 pm

>209 DMulvee: I can certainly appreciate that. It was a botched launch, for sure.

And while I sympathize, I think there's a large portion of complaining from people who hoped to purchase today but who then saw that the price exceeded their budgets.

213capiri
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 2:02 pm

I am disappointed and sad.
A few months ago I actually started a thread questioning why Folio would not make a new/nicer version than the current SE. TLOR is my favorite book ever, and I wanted to have the best version there is of it and although current SE is ok I wanted something truly special. It did not matter the cost, I told myself, I’m ready to spend 600 pounds If they make a nice version LE or not.
When I received the email in the inbox my heart was racing. I stopped everything I was doing to buy it. Then I saw it cost 1000 pound and then I was shocked. I did not need to do the conversion to euros. WTF?!!!! Besides the fact that it does not look like being worth 1000 pounds at least on the screen, I wouldn’t be able to forgive myself for spending so much in a single title. Really disappointing. I really wish to everyone who can afford it without regrets to enjoy it though as I am sure it’s awesome.

214cwl
Apr. 20, 2022, 2:06 pm

Might be a good time to peruse some of the older LE’s: Kelmscott, natural history folios, David Roberts, to remind us what we used to get for our money. Even adjusted for inflation, this is expensive, and that’s before we compare design and materials. Looks like the secondary market for the first LE will remain firm. Shame, as I would have liked a first-rate Alan Lee, but not this.

215Neil77
Apr. 20, 2022, 2:09 pm

I think the price is fair when considering the fact that we have three humongous volumes, 50+ illustrations by Alan Lee and I love this binding as much as I hated the binding on the previous LE LOTR (FS). I always felt that FS needed to re-do the set with modern sensibilities in mind. I am glad they did. Other than the website issues that persisted for almost an hour, I am glad that I managed to place an order for this gorgeous masterpiece.

216Shadekeep
Apr. 20, 2022, 2:28 pm

>212 whytewolf1: For me it certainly isn't the price. I would pay the asking price for a superlative edition, but for myself this isn't it. The most I'd pay for this release is about $300. That being said, tastes are a highly subjective thing, and for people who find this edition both appealing and a good value, may they thoroughly enjoy it. Nothing will appeal to everyone, but I do believe a fair number of the negative comments here are genuinely about aesthetic issues and not merely sour grapes.

217antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 2:42 pm

>215 Neil77: Speaking of humongous volumes , Gargantua & Pantagruel was over 1000 pages, had over 700 illustrations (61 full page), quarter leather binding , hand-made cloth slipcase, gilded top edges etc etc & a limitation of only 500 - for £545

218DMulvee
Apr. 20, 2022, 2:30 pm

>212 whytewolf1: You are partially right as there are a number of comments on the price. For me I actually was bracing myself for a higher price, so it is the quality of the product that has left me disappointed. However there are some who prefer this to the previous LE, so if I get lucky I might be able to pick that up and then everyone can be happy!

219antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 3:08 pm

>212 whytewolf1: I don't think it’s all about budgets. My budget is unlimited but i look at this & I’m underwhelmed. If they had made a stunning production i would happily have paid £2000 / £3000. I logged on expecting to purchase, but when i saw what was on offer it didn’t match my expectations. It doesn’t help that , unlike many, i don't really buy into the cult of Alan Lee so his illustrations don’t really add much value for me. Take away his illustrations & what is left ?

220whytewolf1
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 2:39 pm

>216 Shadekeep: That is fair enough. I would never say that even most of the negative comments are simply sour grapes. Tastes do, indeed, differ. For instance, while I would acknowledge that the construction of the prior LE makes it superior in that respect, the illustrations are a nonstarter for me. I don't like them enough to buy them even in the standard editions.

>218 DMulvee: I completely and respectfully agree. I just wish many folks were a little more circumspect before making absolutist, ungenerous comments (some of which, I suppose in all fairness, must come from a sense of disappointment).

221Shadekeep
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 3:01 pm

>220 whytewolf1: Are the illustrations in the current Standard Edition the same as the ones from the previous Limited Edition? They are a very different animal indeed from the new offering if so! I do like the Alan Lee artwork in the new offering, but like some other folks have stated, it would also have been interesting to see a completely new take. Though there's the risk that could have been a step backwards.

222bacchus.
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 3:13 pm

>212 whytewolf1: The budget is indeed relevant, considering the inflation seems mostly artificial. A healthy revenue is good news for FS but the stick is getting so sharp at the other end I honestly can't muster the joy to cheer. Like it or not, take it or leave it, nobody's forcing anyone etc. yet I don't blame myself for being doubly careful and can't help to notice the waning trust between FS and its longer-running customers.

223red_guy
Apr. 20, 2022, 3:15 pm

I don't think the price is bad, actually. After all, these books are a foot high, and if it was released one volume at a time, no one would baulk at £350 for a quarter bound Fellowship of the Ring LE with 15 illustrations, two colour printing throughout and signed by Alan Lee, would they? Obviously the logistics of distributing the second and third volumes would be a nightmare and I can see why they haven't done it, but in terms of price and value I think it it would be fair for a limitation of a thousand.

That is, of course if you are a fan of Alan Lee, which sadly I am not . I like illustrations to pique my imagination rather than shut it down by being so specific, and Eric Fraser suits me fine.

However, by a happy quirk of sideways enabling, this edition pushed me to go for the additional LOTR that I have always wanted, and so this afternoon I bought a very nice copy of the Allen & Unwin one volume India paper deluxe boxed edition that came out in the 70s from Abe.

224cronshaw
Apr. 20, 2022, 3:25 pm

>217 antinous_in_london: Speaking of humongous volumes , Gargantua & Pantagruel was over 1000 pages, had over 700 illustrations (61 full page), quarter leather binding , hand-made cloth slipcase, gilded top edges etc etc & a limitation of only 500 - for £545

Quite! That's some price-inflation, and for double the limitation number. Moreover, the volumes of the G&P LE are in fact considerably larger than those of this new product.

225HowardEriksonWolfe
Apr. 20, 2022, 3:27 pm

Here’s hoping they do a new SE version in the next year or so using all the Alan Lee illustrations.

226Mr.Fox
Apr. 20, 2022, 3:36 pm

I don’t care for the design/appearance and artwork of the existing Folio editions of LotR, but I wanted a higher quality version on my shelf and so this really interested me. Even though this is expensive, I love the Alan Lee artwork and this seems to be a wonderful presentation of it. If someone offered me a much less expensive version with someone else’s artwork, I would pass. This is all about Alan Lee for me, particularly since it will include his signature.

227assemblyman
Apr. 20, 2022, 3:41 pm

>212 whytewolf1: That’s probably true to a certain extent. The Gormenghast LE release later this year should go smoother since it has been flagged from late last year with the illustrator known and people would have planned their budgets accordingly. Though I would say that this release is an eye opener for some in regards what to expect price wise when Gormenghast is released.

228assemblyman
Apr. 20, 2022, 3:48 pm

>223 red_guy: Congrats. The India paper used in that edition always amazes me with how much slimmer it makes it compared to any other edition.

229antinous_in_london
Apr. 20, 2022, 3:49 pm

>225 HowardEriksonWolfe: They’re still selling their existing LOTR version - i cant imagine they would run 2 versions of LOTR side by side so until they put the ticker on the existing standard edition I wouldn’t hold your breath ! They would also need to produce a matching Alan Lee Hobbit otherwise they would have The Hobbit & LOTR in 2 totally different non-matching versions. I imagine that before they ever planned a SE of this edition there would be a LE Alan Lee Hobbit first, then SE versions a few years later - so you might have to wait a few years !

230antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 4:06 pm

>226 Mr.Fox: What about if they produced a tweaked Alan Lee standard edition of this in a couple of years time for £150? Is the signature & print worth the additional £850 to you or would you go for the SE ?

231whytewolf1
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 4:35 pm

>221 Shadekeep: The artist is the same, so I assume the illustrations are the same also (I don't know if there are any additional ones in the LEs).

>222 bacchus.: I understand what you're saying. I know that recent inflation has been tough for many people, generally, and I know that it has hit the publishing industry especially hard, so we have seen more price rises there than in most other areas. And though I appreciate what you say about waning trust between Folio and some of its longer-running customers, I must admit that I don't entirely understand it. I have been a Folio customer since the mid-90s, much longer than some, though not so long as others. But it seems to me that the biggest complaint I hear is that Folio is not what it once was. True enough. But much of that, in my estimation, has been for the good, though perhaps not all. But things change or they die. The last time Folio tried to launch a new edition of Trollope, they canceled his most popular series after two releases due to lack of sales. If Folio is not what it once was, neither is its current customer base.

>223 red_guy: "I don't think the price is bad, actually. After all, these books are a foot high, and if it was released one volume at a time, no one would baulk at £350 for a quarter bound Fellowship of the Ring LE with 15 illustrations, two colour printing throughout and signed by Alan Lee, would they? "

I considered the very same thing myself, and I think the answer is no. Far fewer would have balked, much less have been outraged.

>226 Mr.Fox: I agree. I happily purchased today in large part because of the profuse, high-quality illustrations of Mr. Lee, his signature, etc.

>230 antinous_in_london: And the bindings, and the magnificent paper, and the high-quality tipped-in illustrations... After all, one can access both Tolkien's text and Mr. Lee's illustrations practically for free elsewhere in any case. So, not answering for my fellow purchaser, but no I would not regret my purchase one iota should they come out with an SE in a year or so.

232Nerevarine
Apr. 20, 2022, 4:22 pm

>231 whytewolf1: Genuine question : who here is outraged ? I can’t see anyone who is.

233antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 4:42 pm

>231 whytewolf1: I was responding to Mr Fox who said ‘This is all about Alan Lee for me’ so presumably considerations re the binding/paper etc were decidedly secondary to him.

PS. This is I think the first time i have ever heard a folio paper choice be described as ‘magnificent’ - i think nearly every post i have ever seen here where paper is mentioned always seems to describe FS paper choice on nearly every edition as ‘adequate’ at best!

234bacchus.
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 4:36 pm

>231 whytewolf1: If Folio is not what it once was, neither is its current customer base.
This sums up the latter part very nicely I believe.

EDIT: ... and I do appreciate your placid approach :)

235Joshbooks1
Apr. 20, 2022, 4:31 pm

>217 antinous_in_london: That's the best comparison I've read and think Gargantua & Pantagruel is Folio's last great limited edition. If Folio made something as beautiful as this in LOTR I would certainly buy it, even if substantially marked up, but if I do buy LOTR I just have a lingering feeling that every time I look at the mediocre edition I will feel swindled.

I'm certainly going to wait for other reviews once they receive the book before I even consider whether to buy it or not. I was so enthusiastic for this edition but I'm just, once again, disappointed with a company I used to love and both my loyalty and funds are turning elsewhere.

236red_guy
Apr. 20, 2022, 4:36 pm

>228 assemblyman: Thank you. Yes, from what I remember it's only just over an inch thick! I have actually wanted it since it was first published, and never somehow taken the plunge.

237treereader
Apr. 20, 2022, 4:36 pm

>210 antinous_in_london:
Thanks!
It's not easy to read through everything everywhere in a smart phone on occasional breaks at work. Limiting my reading to this thread is very helpful.

238Shadekeep
Apr. 20, 2022, 4:37 pm

>231 whytewolf1: Thanks for the info on the illustrator.

I think it's axiomatic that if you love something, most changes to that thing will be perceived as negatives. So it follows that if FS has changed over time, there would be a number of long-time fans who believe it isn't as good as before. Others like yourself accept the changes as necessary, or even positives. My point is that a goodly portion of this perceived shift can be down to human nature as much as to tangible changes in the subject itself. I haven't been buying FS for any length of time, so have no basis of comparison myself. I do think there are the occasional dubious title selections, but nowhere as egregious as those of, say, Easton Press.

239whytewolf1
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 5:00 pm

>230 antinous_in_london: Munken Pure is a pretty damn nice paper. It's not Lettra or mouldmade or a number of other things, but still... it's far from just "adequate."

>232 Nerevarine: I've been reading back and forth between the Facebook group and this forum, so I'm not going to try to track down specific examples. And perhaps "outrage" was a bit hyperbolic, but certainly, pique and offense and apparent disgust have been present in quite a number of circumstances.

240Mr.Fox
Apr. 20, 2022, 4:41 pm

>230 antinous_in_london: I feel like this is already a higher end edition of the Harper Collins with Lee’s art, so a cheaper/standard version of this would seem a lot more similar to what I already own. Realistically, I would probably pick one up anyway, because I have been picking up a new copy of this every two or three years since the 90’s. It’s the title that got me into collecting books in the first place. There is sentimental value at play here in my case.

241treereader
Apr. 20, 2022, 4:45 pm

>232 Nerevarine:
Disappointed, perhaps. Outraged? Hardly. Wallet is relieved, perhaps. I don't have the unlimited funds option but if this had turned out to be the pinnacle of editions, sure, no problem. I'd have made it work.

If this is just an Alan Lee showcase edition, show me a standard version for $200-300.

Maybe Alan Lee just needed a new swimming pool...

242antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 4:59 pm

>240 Mr.Fox: I agree Mr Fox, Definitely sentimental value plays a part i think - i found the same with the several recent fine press editions of Wind in the Willows which many English buyers have sentimental attachment to which potential American buyers who did not read the book in childhood did not have.
Personally I’d never heard of Alan Lee, so have no attachment to his illustrations so i view this edition purely as a physical object. I assume that if they had gone with a different illustrator they probably would have adjusted the price accordingly as I’m sure Lee’s name is adding a lot to the price.

243whytewolf1
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 5:15 pm

>238 Shadekeep: You're right about that I think, and as far as Easton, I agree! And I'm even an Easton Press fan. At their best, they put out some truly lovely limited editions and create some really nice classic sets. At their worst, they will slap a leather binding and gilding on just about any piece of commemorative pabulum they think they can make a buck on!

>242 antinous_in_london: You may be right about the sentimentality at play in some people's purchases because of the art. With me, it's mostly just admiration of Lee's art (he hadn't yet illustrated the books when I first read them). I think he's widely considered the quintessential Tolkien artist for a reason. A large part of the reason that I, personally, didn't balk at the price (aside from not being really surprised by it) was definitely because of that art. Had the set been illustrated by some other worthy artist, I may have thought twice (and may have bought it anyway).

You make an interesting point about what role that sentimentality can play in terms of artist and of title in relation to willingness to pay high prices for some editions. I'm American myself, so I have no sentimental attachment to The Wind in the Willows since I didn't read it in childhood, and I was, in fact, quite surprised at the high prices happily being paid for fine editions of the work by mostly British and Commonwealth collectors, entirely separate from the objective quality of the editions. But I saw the same thing at play in Suntup's successful recent solicitation for some quite pricey editions of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory by Roald Dahl, including 26 lettered copies at $5500 each and 10 Roman Numeral copies for $14,500 each!

244HugoDumas
Apr. 20, 2022, 5:22 pm

This seems like a superior DLE to the previous DLE (limited to 1,750) from 2001-2003 which is selling for about $5,000 for the 3 vol slipcased LOTR with matching slipcased Hobbit and Silmarillion. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Folio-Society-Limited-Ed-LORD-OF-THE-RINGS-Hobbit-Silma...

245cronshaw
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 5:27 pm

>244 HugoDumas: Asking price is not necessarily the reasonable market price! A set of the original FS limited LotR recently sold on eBay at auction (21 bids) for £630.

Furthermore, I would say superiority is very much in the eye of the beholder :)

246Nerevarine
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 5:28 pm

>244 HugoDumas: I’d argue that the slipcase and binding of the previous LE (in goatskin and hand woven silk) is superior to this LE, while the interior (paper and illustrations/details) is superior in this new LE.

And I like the fact that the new LE comes with a separate fold-out map.

Tastes are obviously subjective regarding the illustrations and the overall aesthetics, but I don’t think this one is overall superior to the previous one quality-wise…nor is it really inferior.

247HugoDumas
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 5:40 pm

>245 cronshaw: one just sold on 3/19 for $5,000 including shipping.

>246 Nerevarine: yes it is subjective. I am partial to the color illustrations of Alan Lee (Hobbit and LOTR) and Ted Nasmith (Silmarillion). I have the oversized HSM edition and in fact sold my plain green leather Easton Press edition after reviewing this set.

248Hamwick
Apr. 20, 2022, 5:32 pm

>243 whytewolf1: hmm, an LE of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. What a nice idea. Chocolate leather binding, comes with a golden ticket. Actually there are other things I would prefer, but I do like the idea of it, which just goes show the sentimentality value, having grown up in England and that being one of my favourite childhood books.

I am certainly not upset with regard to the LoTR LE, I think, like a number of others it does seem like an upscale version of the Harper Collins edition. Hopefully I am completely wrong and everyone who has bought it will be over the moon with the purchase. I am still on the fence personally, so I may yet put my hand in my pocket to purchase it. I now also live in the U.S. in a high tax state and $1800+ seems a lot for this particular version. To quote Warren Buffet, “Price is what you pay, value is what you get”. It just feels like the price far exceeds the value. Perhaps if I convinced myself I was only paying 8-900 dollars for this version…

249whytewolf1
Apr. 20, 2022, 5:33 pm

>246 Nerevarine: "I’d argue that the slipcase and binding of the previous LE (in goatskin and hand woven silk) is superior to this LE, while the interior (paper and illustrations/details) is superior in this new LE."

I'd agree entirely with that observation and find it an acceptable tradeoff.

250Neil77
Apr. 20, 2022, 5:44 pm

>217 antinous_in_london: True, but they were not coloured illustrations by one of the best artists alive. There is absolutely no comparison IMHO.

251whytewolf1
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 5:48 pm

>248 Hamwick: I wouldn't really argue with the fact that it's something of an upscaled version of the HC versions, but I think that's okay, especially since they've added some new art and included the best (reasonably) possible reproductions of the illustrations-- tipped in and all. I don't think that will keep me from enjoying it and being content with the purchase price in the slightest.

Coincidentally, I was recently checking out all of the extant deluxe editions of LOTR and wondering why I couldn't find a satisfactory one. The previous LE was indeed a fine piece of work, but the illustrations are not to my taste and I find the style of the bindings to be a bit sedate. A deluxe version of LOTR with Alan Lee illustrations is exactly what I was hoping to find and previously could not. But here they are! Of course, I would rather have paid less, but that's nothing new, and I felt the cost was on the high-end of acceptable (and expected, frankly).

252antinous_in_london
Apr. 20, 2022, 5:48 pm

>243 whytewolf1: I like Dahl but cant see any scenario personally in which $14,500 would be value for money !

I think that where people are unhappy it mainly seems to be disappointment. When Folio pre-advertises something as being : spectacular, the ultimate edition, the pinnacle of all the editions that have gone before etc etc buyers expectations are heightened for something amazing & three quarter-bound leather volumes in a cloth slipcase may seem a bit underwhelming (especially when so much of the editions appeal seems to hang on the choice of illustrator).
Whether people liked the presentation or not, they seemed to be a bit more bold with the Dante where you got the bespoke drawer box holding the 3 volumes along with a print for each volume & it was certainly more striking visually and a more imaginative presentation. If they had done LOTR in a similar kind of format I wonder if it would have disappointed some of the unhappy potential customers less…

253Nerevarine
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 5:56 pm

>249 whytewolf1: I also think it’s a fair assertion, but hey we’re all different people.

At least I am grateful I still have some time to ponder on whether I ‘‘need’’ this LE or not.

I have the recent Alan Lee illustrated Harpercollins set, and I think it’s the perfect reading copy. It’s also printed in two-colors throughout, have the vast majority of illustrations present here and the paper is quite thick for a mass production book (though probably not as good as Munken Pure). And I also have Alan Lee’s signature from his Deluxe Sketchbooks, so I don’t really care about that. And add to this that I also own the previous LE from Folio Society (it really feels good in the hands and the size is perfect imo), this new LE is a hard sell for me.

But I’m still thinking about it…

254antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 6:03 pm

>250 Neil77: Gustave Doré was one of the greatest illustrators who ever lived & Lee has spoken of the influence of Doré / Dürer and many others on his work. I'm not sure that the use of colour is a mark of an illustrators prowess. But thank you for making me laugh !

255whytewolf1
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 5:58 pm

...

256wcarter
Apr. 20, 2022, 5:56 pm

Waited up late last night to order, but found it impossible due to website issues.

Woke this morning expecting it to be sold out, but plenty still available as no counter on the website.

I suspect that this may live up yo the hype of being the best edition ever of LOTR when examined in the flesh.

Now I only hope that when the Hobbit (and ? Simarillion) LEs are published, owners of the LOTR will be given first option and the possibility of matching numbers.

257whytewolf1
Apr. 20, 2022, 5:59 pm

>252 antinous_in_london: I think like most things in life, there's not one easy answer. I think it's a combination of all the things discussed, including the price. And I totally respect your feelings about the bold design of the Dante, yet there were people who were, of course, expecting something of a more traditional fine press bent (such as the later Ulysses, I think), and were actually disappointed in that respect. Anyhow, I expect Folio will sell out of this edition sooner or later, though the price point will certainly slow things down.

As for the Suntup Dahl, I have to agree with you. I would have to be orders of magnitude more wealthy than I am to consider $14,500 money well-spent on a single book. That being said, it's close to being indisputable that the handmade leather binding is a thing of beauty:

258dyhtstriyk
Apr. 20, 2022, 6:00 pm

I always thought that the LOTR SE was one of the Folios that I wouldn't like to have given the iconic status of Lee's illustrations and the widespread availability of decent HarperCollins editions.

Seeing this I'm torn in what to think. Yes, an upscale version of Lee's illustrations (with a new Grey Havens one!) is a probable gem in anyone's library, but the design is off or at least not looking to justify it's price. I was reminded immediately of the now hard to find Unseen Library Discworld Editions and the silver edges are borderline questionable. I agree with everyone who said that they would pay $300 for it.

I think I'll stay with my Harper boxed set, which despite not being even clothbound it has Lee's illustrations, an excellent paper (printed in Slovenia).

259whytewolf1
Apr. 20, 2022, 6:01 pm

>256 wcarter: I think that's fairly likely (or at least, I hope it is).

I hadn't even thought about matching numbers. Do you know if that courtesy was extended to the previous LE buyers back in the early 2000s?

260antinous_in_london
Apr. 20, 2022, 6:10 pm

>257 whytewolf1: Agreed re the Suntup binding !

261PartTimeBookAddict
Apr. 20, 2022, 6:12 pm

It's been bugging me all day, but I finally thought of what the spines reminded me of: The Reader's Digest World's Best Reading Set.

Here's a few links in case you didn't grow up with this series:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/readers-digest-charles-dickens-26929513
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/lot-51-readers-digest-worlds-best-1806270...

It might be the burgundy. They're fine, if a little prosaic, but lacking the punch that FS usually brings. On the other hand, I loved all of the designs for the Spring collection (minus Hulk).

That said, I think it is still a good set overall. Love the tipped in Alan Lee artwork. And count me in for a separate map any day!

I already have the SE set with matching Hobbit, so won't be purchasing these. And there's no way I would trust myself to even HANDLE these without fear of accidentally ruining them.

I hope this is a great success and keeps the FS in the black!

262Hamwick
Bearbeitet: Apr. 20, 2022, 6:23 pm

>257 whytewolf1: wow, that Suntup binding is really nice! For $14,500 though I would want them to send me both that version and an edible version, chocolate cover please, rice paper pages.

263cronshaw
Apr. 20, 2022, 6:22 pm

>247 HugoDumas: It included The Hobbit and The Silmarillion. At that price, I'd be unsurprised if there were a money laundering arrangement behind it.

>257 whytewolf1: Now that is a beautiful binding! If New Folio had shown one ounce of that boldness and creativity in designing this Alan Lee LotR LE, there'd be no copies left.

264jswift81
Apr. 20, 2022, 6:31 pm

I've been a nutcase this year when it comes to buying FS books, and was fully prepared to continue that trend today, but $1,500 for that set seems a little ridiculous even to me. I'd buy the SE for sure, but am currently feeling quite comfortable sticking to my HarperCollins set. Maybe I'll print out the new illustrations and tape them to the front covers to get that premium feel lol.

265whytewolf1
Apr. 20, 2022, 7:08 pm

>262 Hamwick: Hahahaha...

>263 cronshaw: Agreed! But don't miss the part where I mention it's from a $14,500 edition! :D

266antinous_in_london
Apr. 20, 2022, 7:13 pm

>265 whytewolf1: Why $14,500 though? I’m sure if Lyra’s or others produced this it would be achievable at well under $5000 !

267RRCBS
Apr. 20, 2022, 7:14 pm

I personally think the set looks quite beautiful. I could technically afford it, but haven’t crossed the line into buying LEs where other nice options are available and I like my old SE. I’m sure it will be lovely in person. Congrats to those who decided to acquire a set!

268jsavoy
Apr. 20, 2022, 8:35 pm

Happy I was able to finally purchase this after getting up early and fighting with the website for an hour and a half. I've been wanting a special copy of Lord of the Rings for a while now and this is the best set for me. I have my battered single volume paperback from high school along with a single volume HarperCollins cloth hardback with the Alan Lee illustrations from my university days (which came with missing pages and duplicate out-of-order pages). The Alan Lee art is the perfect option for me. In university I obsessively watched the movie versions in theatre on their release and his style of artwork is pleasantly embedded in my brain at this point. Nostalgia is a huge part of it. It certainly is an extraordinary amount of money, but it seems reasonable to me based on current prices. I have long considered copies of the previous Folio LE on eBay and was always put off by the enormous font on the spines and the not-quite-perfect-for-me artwork, but finally decided to wade into an eBay auction on the Hobbit two weeks ago only to find out that my bid of 560 GBP wasn't enough to get it. Then I was pleasantly surprised to see the tease for this release 2 days later. The release of the 3 volume trilogy at less than twice the cost of what I was willing to pay for the Hobbit somehow seems like good value given the ridiculous costs involved, I think the whole concept of 'value' on this sort of thing(LEs) is all a little absurd. I also hesitated forever on the Wander LE, but finally pulled the trigger before it sold out (and somehow received number 750/750 which strangely felt like a neat bonus), and after reading that one, count it as one of my favorites. I've seen that style of leather impressions on the spine and want more :) I'm not interested in what the Wanderer is 'worth', but due to my regular eBay searches, know it now routinely sells for much more than this release, as does the recent LE Dante, Poetic Edda, Book of the New Sun, Count of Monte Cristo, Mort, Dune, Wind in the Willows, Call of Cthulhu,... I actually think Folio has been under pricing their most 'collectable/popular' LEs that are well done compared to what geeks like me are willing to pay. Can't wait to have this in hand (will take several weeks to get to me in extremely rural Canada), but my hopes are high...

269Hamwick
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:09 pm

>268 jsavoy: Hi Jsavoy, as I am the one who mentioned value I just wanted to give a quick reply, for context. I was not talking about financial value (I have never sold a book I have bought, I have passed some on though), but rather what is important to me, e.g. some nice artwork, a tactile feel, size, durability, layout, uniqueness, etc. Value is of course a very personal thing, we all value things differently and of course it would be boring if we all thought the same. Personally I think it is expensive, given what is offered and with regards to what I personally value and look for in a book, as well as what is currently available. That is all it meant. I am pleased (and a little envious) that this ticks all the boxes for other people.
You have got some very nice books by the way, I particularly wish I knew about Folio when the Wanderer was released, as I think that a beautiful book.

270jsavoy
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:23 pm

>269 Hamwick: absolutely understand your perspective and have never sold a book either. I really think it is a personal matter what we think something is worth and I'm always happy if someone gets something they're excited about. No hard feelings or disappointment towards Folio if a release isn't for me due to cost/design/artwork, etc. I hope the person who outbid me on the Hobbit auction loves that version and I hope folio releases matching versions of other Tolkien works!

271whytewolf1
Apr. 20, 2022, 9:50 pm

>266 antinous_in_london: Only 10 made and lots of highly-skilled labor and lots of expensive components! And there was a "lettered" version at $5500 with 26 made!

You can find out more info on the various states (along with lots of cool photos) here: https://suntup.press/charlie-and-the-chocolate-factory

>268 jsavoy: Congrats on your new acquisition! As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this was the fine edition that I also had been looking for which had not been produced until now.

272Shadekeep
Apr. 20, 2022, 10:39 pm

I am glad this is resonating with some people, and if it's their dream edition, all the better! The book collecting world would be dull indeed if we all liked the same thing. Not to mention even more cutthroat. ^_^

273simbae
Apr. 20, 2022, 11:38 pm

Wish it was at least letterpress. FS just doesn’t do enough letterpress when I feel like it has the resources to do it cheaper than all these high end small presses. Perhaps that’s a whole other topic not meant for here.

Post pictures pleas of whoever get this first! I agree with Carter this will likely be impressive in person.

274HarpsichordKnight
Bearbeitet: Apr. 21, 2022, 1:17 am

Considering Tolkien's work is still in copyright, and that Alan Lee is not only the most famous artist for Tolkien's work, but the artist also associated closely with the much-loved films, I can't say I'm surprised by the high price for the three books.

Even now, Lee's influence on Fantasy is huge - for anyone playing Elden Ring, you'll know what I mean. Personally, I can't afford it, but if I could, I'd be happy with this as my One Edition to Rule them All.

That said, I concur with the general feeling that the binding is not that spectacular. Perhaps it looks better in the flesh?

275LesMiserables
Apr. 21, 2022, 1:07 am

At AUD $2,250.00, I'll be passing.

Disappointed really and a step backwards from the original LE.

Have goats and cows become rare?

276Cat_of_Ulthar
Apr. 21, 2022, 1:28 am

>256 wcarter:

'I suspect that this may live up yo the hype of being the best edition ever of LOTR when examined in the flesh.'

I suspect so too. Curious how some can be so dismissive when nobody has actually got their hands on a copy as yet. I look forward to receiving mine.

I missed out on the initial teething troubles and my order went through without any glitches - sometimes it pays to be out at work!

>259 whytewolf1:

'I hadn't even thought about matching numbers. Do you know if that courtesy was extended to the previous LE buyers back in the early 2000s?'

I believe it was. I missed out on the LoTR LE but I did order the Hobbit and Silmarillion and was given the opportunity of matching numbers. If I still have the letter they sent me (and can find it!) I will check on that. wcarter might be able to confirm or deny my belief in the meantime.

:-)

277Lukas1990
Apr. 21, 2022, 2:07 am

>273 simbae: If it was letterpress, it would cost 5000£ :)

278Uppernorwood
Apr. 21, 2022, 2:15 am

>217 antinous_in_london: Gargantua and Pantagruel isn’t comparing like with like. That was two volumes (not three), had no new content (Dore’s illustrations were all public domain so free to use), and was not signed by anyone.

Also I think people are underestimating just how hard inflation and supply chain restrictions have bitten in the past couple of years.

Perhaps £1,000 is on the high end of the scale, but not by much.

279bacchus.
Bearbeitet: Apr. 21, 2022, 2:56 am

>278 Uppernorwood: Those first points are quite subjective and can work either way - one could argue the 1000 page G&P, at 14¼˝ × 10¼˝, has more paper surface area than the 3 vol. LOTR, 14 times the illustrations and is more exclusive.

280ubiquitousuk
Apr. 21, 2022, 2:58 am

>257 whytewolf1: Yes, this binding is sublime. But you can get a nice, bespoke designer leather binding made for a book of your choice for about £1500–£2000, so there's still a sizeable 'Suntup premium' in there even after accounting for the work of the binding.

281cwl
Apr. 21, 2022, 4:03 am

The real issue isn’t necessarily the price for me, although that does of course affect perceived value. It’s the product, especially on a second deeper look. Give it a few years; those covers just won’t stand up, much like the printed paper-sided books coming out recently (Pinocchio, looking at you and your mates). Will it stand up to multiple readings the way a traditional binding would? No. Therein lies the fundamental problem. Also, why calf instead of goatskin? It reminds me too much of the disappointing Blake Bunyan compared to the previous Blake LE’s. Also, the non-aligning spines are irritating. Back to the Dante series mistakes here. Have they sacked their experienced art department, or were they overruled? That said, when it’s released as an SE (of course it will be for many reasons, just give it time), I’ll probably buy it then.

282InVitrio
Apr. 21, 2022, 4:13 am

I was relieved when it came up as a grand; at half that I would have been hovering over the button and juggling credit cards. But a grand? No. There isn't the product there for it. It's basically three ordinary editions, with artificial rarity, and a poor comparison to the last LOTR edition.

Part of me did wonder on looking at it whether FS had decided not to make this an FS Collector edition and therefore pushed the price way above what one would expect. So as not to annoy the average FS Collector who already has at least one FS LOTR.

For a grand, I would want something way more special than three fairly bog-standard volumes. At the very least a Dantesque approach to storage, make it an event every time you opened the box.

283ian_curtin
Apr. 21, 2022, 4:35 am

"Over two thirds sold" per the site.

284assemblyman
Apr. 21, 2022, 4:42 am

>281 cwl: They have been using calfskin on some of the recent LEs like Ulysses and Aurora Australis though Divine Comedy, Rob Roy and Thomas Hardy LEs were still in goatskin.

Over two thirds sold now so it is selling well.

285assemblyman
Apr. 21, 2022, 5:06 am

>256 wcarter: I don't know why you are so confident where you state 'when' the Hobbit and Silmarillion are published. It might take as long as two whole days for this LE to sell out :).

286HuxleyTheCat
Apr. 21, 2022, 5:35 am

>223 red_guy: "I don't think the price is bad, actually. After all, these books are a foot high, and if it was released one volume at a time, no one would baulk at £350 for a quarter bound Fellowship of the Ring LE with 15 illustrations, two colour printing throughout and signed by Alan Lee, would they?"

I agree. The new LE is closest in design, materials etc to The Wanderer and that sold out at £395 for a 244 page work with a 750 copy limitation.

Even though this is the closest to temptation for an LE that I have been for a while, I will resist.

287folio_books
Apr. 21, 2022, 6:14 am

>286 HuxleyTheCat:

Fiona! Great to see you back posting!

288antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 21, 2022, 6:36 am

>278 Uppernorwood: In addition to clymbouris’ comments re the relative physical components of each volume, i would suggest that apart from materials/construction no books can be truly compared ‘like for like’ as much of the perceived value of a book is personal.

In this volume Alan Lee seems to have a more prominent role than Tolkien (indeed FS themselves say this volume is ‘ As much a celebration of Lee’s art as it is of Tolkien’s legacy’ ) & as someone who had not heard of Alan Lee before this volume, his name, art & signature hold no special value for me so the volume holds less value for me than a member of the Alan Lee fan club who will happily pay a premium for a sprinkle of his stardust.

289red_guy
Apr. 21, 2022, 6:38 am

>286 HuxleyTheCat: And are the illustrations tipped in individually by hand, do you think, in the manner of a golden age gift book? That would be quite something, and take forever to do, although I would have my doubts that they would not be crooked, given my experience of Folio's limitation labels. Similarly, I presume the coloured cover illustration will be recessed into the front board, again a golden age gift book technique ...

Even though I don't want the books I can't wait for people's first impressions when they have them in the hand.

290terebinth
Apr. 21, 2022, 6:44 am

For all the reasons stated, the price seems fair enough to me. I'm just a disinterested spectator of this release: I read LoTR at about 16, again in the current standard Folio format at about 43, so if I get to about 70 I may just read it for a third time - even if I reach 97 a fourth seems unlikely - and I doubt the experience would be much enhanced were I to possess this set.

291assemblyman
Apr. 21, 2022, 6:48 am

>289 red_guy: I'm the same. This one isn't for me but it's always nice to hear the thoughts of those who buy it when they do do receive them.

292HuxleyTheCat
Apr. 21, 2022, 6:56 am

>287 folio_books: Thanks, Glenn. The new LE was mentioned in today's Bookseller email and I thought I'd drop in to see what the cognoscenti are saying.

>289 red_guy: The description indicates "Quarter-bound in leather with cloth sides blocked in silver and inset with illustration labels", so yes, recessed, and "53 colour illustrations in total printed on Veltique paper tipped within printed borders " in contrast with "Circular limitation tip printed letterpress on Tintoretto paper hand tipped within a gold border" so, no to hand-tipping for the illustrations.

293Neil77
Apr. 21, 2022, 7:13 am

>254 antinous_in_london: well to each, his/her own preference. I am glad I could evoke some laughter, however irrational the reason could be. We are comparing Dore to Alan Lee here. Dore’s illustrations are available in public domain. GP was nothing more than a facsimile copy.

294red_guy
Apr. 21, 2022, 7:16 am

>292 HuxleyTheCat: Ah, I see - the tipping in means a different paper from the rest of the text block. Presumably there is no corresponding sheet of Veltique in the signature?

295folio_books
Apr. 21, 2022, 7:34 am

>292 HuxleyTheCat:

And thanks for reminding me I already have a Limited Edition signed by Alan Lee, so one less reason for buying this, if I needed one. (I didn't).

296antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 21, 2022, 8:04 am

>293 Neil77: Just to say the GP was not ‘nothing more than a facsimile copy’ - the entire text had to be reset from scratch to fit in the illustrations as the original was in French so the English translation had a different layout given the totally different text structure.

297whytewolf1
Apr. 21, 2022, 7:56 am

>276 Cat_of_Ulthar: Thanks for the response on the matching numbers. :)

>278 Uppernorwood: "Also I think people are underestimating just how hard inflation and supply chain restrictions have bitten in the past couple of years.

Perhaps £1,000 is on the high end of the scale, but not by much."

Completely agree!

>280 ubiquitousuk: Oh, no doubt!

>281 cwl: "Give it a few years; those covers just won’t stand up, much like the printed paper-sided books coming out recently (Pinocchio, looking at you and your mates). Will it stand up to multiple readings the way a traditional binding would? No."

I have to admit, I find this a curious comment. Since when won't a high-quality book, quarter-bound in calf leather, with (presumably) high-quality cloth-covered boards stand up to handling. I mean, it's not going to be circulated by a public library, is it?

>292 HuxleyTheCat: Truthfully, your conclusions based on a close reading of the sales copy may or may not be accurate, as sometimes the sales copy can leave out certain details, especially if they may seem repetitive. Perhaps I'm wrong, but at this price point, with images that are glued on one side and attached to specially-designed "mounting pages," aren't they typically all hand-tipped?

298Pellias
Apr. 21, 2022, 8:34 am

>286 HuxleyTheCat: Oh no. It is she, the jester he says. Boudicca. Flings cape over shoulder in the dead of night and run back to somewhere unseen for the human eye. A single note falls to the ground `Nice to witness your presence` !

-

With Christopher Tolkiens passing it would be natural to include Alan Lee, would it not ?

I like the original LE, but that one holds the text block for the standard edition if I`m not wrong. If it were signed by the queen of denmark that would be the ultimate edition, but alas missed oportunity.

The positives on this edition would be that The Hobbit and Silmarillion would come cheaper, this is the most expensive it will get, and FS have opened the gate for follow ups.

Have FS operated with locked numbers before? (during the relative that is described as the modern era, not to my knowledge)

.. and I must say I like the size of the new LE.

299cwl
Bearbeitet: Apr. 21, 2022, 8:39 am

>297 whytewolf1:
The illustrations on the covers will be susceptible to abrasion. They’d have to be deeply recessed not to, and I’ll be surprised if they are after looking at the photos. I’m happy to be corrected once yours arrives. They can rub simply coming in and out of the slipcase and against each other. No need to be in public circulation for this to happen, just normal handling during reading. The same thing happens with gilt page edges; many an LE on the secondary market shows how common this is.

300whytewolf1
Apr. 21, 2022, 9:27 am

>299 cwl: Okay, I see what you're alluding to now. I'm not sure if I agree that these things will be a big deal, but I appreciate your clarifying. And as you say, I guess we'll all have a better idea after the actual sets start arriving.

301ubiquitousuk
Apr. 21, 2022, 10:29 am

I just noticed that the website says "over three-quarters sold". So, while this might not have sold out in the record time some had predicted, it's still going at a good clip. The comparison to the Jackson isn't quite fair given that this is 4x the number of copies at 4x the price. £750k of sales in 24 hours doesn't seem too bad given that it took Folio Society about 14 years to sell £1m worth of Othello LEs (though I'm keeping my Othello, thanks).

I'd join those above in hoping that anyone who decided to go for the new Tolkien very much enjoys their purchase.

302assemblyman
Bearbeitet: Apr. 21, 2022, 10:35 am

First one I have seen up on eBay - £1800

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/165443791759?hash=item268537eb8f:g:w1sAAOSw4RtiYWg7

Edited to add note on page: Ideally for those not able to order from their country on the official website - a good Samaritan so

303What_What
Bearbeitet: Apr. 21, 2022, 10:55 am

>292 HuxleyTheCat: "The description indicates "Quarter-bound in leather with cloth sides blocked in silver and inset with illustration labels", so yes, recessed, and "53 colour illustrations in total printed on Veltique paper tipped within printed borders " in contrast with "Circular limitation tip printed letterpress on Tintoretto paper hand tipped within a gold border" so, no to hand-tipping for the illustrations."

The illustrations are all glued into the book along the top - either at the corners or all along the top - with the effect of having the bottom part lose.

Is there some other way to add illustrations to a book in this manner other than hand-tipping them in?

Regardless of what the copy on the page says, practicality must prevail in our assessment of this.

304Shadekeep
Apr. 21, 2022, 10:58 am

>303 What_What: Is there some other way to add illustrations to a book in this manner other than hand-tipping them in?

I suppose in theory it could be done mechanically instead of manually. Don't know how cost effective that is to have a machine devoted to such a thing, or how accurate it might be.

305Neil77
Apr. 21, 2022, 11:01 am

>296 antinous_in_london: Yes, I do understand the painstaking process out there. However, we still are not comparing apples to apples here. The same set is available for less than $100. This FS production is not catering to buyers who find $100 sets "equally appealing". Its catering to people who find high-end private presses like Suntup appealing.

306EuanM
Apr. 21, 2022, 11:47 am

I love my Tolkien, but sticking with the standard Folio set I have from a few years ago - £1000 too rich for me!

The spine design feels very, very reminiscent of the FS "Crusades through Arab Eyes"! Or is that just me?

307Neil77
Apr. 21, 2022, 12:26 pm

And the sign is up...

OVER THREE-QUARTERS (750) SOLD

308mr.philistine
Apr. 21, 2022, 12:45 pm

>306 EuanM: The spine design feels very, very reminiscent of the FS "Crusades through Arab Eyes"!

Closely followed by the FS The Fall of Constantinople 1453 :)

309podaniel
Apr. 21, 2022, 1:24 pm

And now there's a low stock counter: 169 copies left (as of this moment).

310Cat_of_Ulthar
Apr. 21, 2022, 1:25 pm

>286 HuxleyTheCat: Nice to see you back, Fiona :-)

>298 Pellias:
'Have FS operated with locked numbers before? (during the relative that is described as the modern era, not to my knowledge)'

Maybe not in the 'modern' era of FS but if you picked up all the Letterpress Shakespeares on release Folio would have given you matching numbers. I didn't start collecting them until some way in so my earlier volumes don't all match but the later ones do.

311antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 21, 2022, 1:33 pm

I see they have now amended the listing :
“Over 800 sets of the limited edition The Lord of the Rings have sold in just a few hours. The final copies from the limitation of 1,000 are being bound in Italy and will be available for despatch from mid-May. Order now to secure yours.”

Looks like nearly a month to wait for those stragglers who didn’t order immediately…I’m surprised they have just started binding the last few hundred copies - did they not expect to sell as many so fast ?!

312Shadekeep
Bearbeitet: Apr. 21, 2022, 1:46 pm

>311 antinous_in_london: That does seem a bit nonchalant on their part, seeing as it could have sold out very quickly, and might have if the site hadn't gone down in the initial frenzy. As it stands, I question their use of the word "few" in this amendation, but it did still sell rather well overall.

EDIT: And few things beat a counter to spur limited item sales. There's nothing like having a tangible number and watching it dwindle to trigger that impulse buy!

313antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 21, 2022, 2:09 pm

>312 Shadekeep: I had assumed they would have produced all 1000 in advance, in a single run so that they were all available upon release. I only hope for buyers that they’re not rushing these last few hundred copies to try to hit this arbitrary mid-May deadline.

Edit : Yes, it took them 24 hours to sell 800 which is good going, but not sure where the ‘just a few hours’ comes from - they could have just said ‘800 sets sold in the first 24hrs’ but i guess they want to hype it up & spur on buyers

314Shadekeep
Apr. 21, 2022, 2:10 pm

>313 antinous_in_london: That was my concern as well. I would have thought an edition like this would be fully produced and passed through quality control by now. I can see accounting arguments for not producing the full stock in advance in case sales tanked, but like you I hope that the final editions don't suffer because of that caution.

315Pellias
Apr. 21, 2022, 2:34 pm

>310 Cat_of_Ulthar: Just out of curiosity, nothing more. Thanks !

316Hamwick
Apr. 21, 2022, 2:41 pm

A final manufacturing run of 200 should not present a quality issue, it is still of a high enough number to minimise the variation in a process (and large enough to be of value to the manufacturer). Given Folio mention it is being bound in Italy, hopefully the manufacturer is L.E.G.O. spa, which should also ease any fears about any drop in quality on the last batch. Hmm, I am now more tempted.

317Neil77
Apr. 21, 2022, 2:46 pm

145 copies left.

318Shadekeep
Apr. 21, 2022, 2:50 pm

I wonder how soon after the last copy sells that the first "I can't believe I missed this!" post will land. ^_^

319punkzip
Bearbeitet: Apr. 21, 2022, 3:05 pm

Looks like FS priced this almost perfectly from their perspective - there were enough copies that it didn't sell out in a few hours, giving everyone who wants to pay the price a chance to purchase it, while at the same time it will likely sell out fast enough that it will look like a hot property. I didn't think the UK price of 1000 GBP was unreasonable given the oversized format and the tipped in illustrations, as well as recent inflation. I didn't order it myself as being in the US and living in a high tax state, the premium over the UK price was about $400 USD (I'm not sure, given the price premium, that a US customer will be able to recoup their costs if they sell it in the future) and given I finished rereading LOTR in the past month and it is very unlikely that I will read it for a 3rd time. Absent one of those 2 factors, I would likely have ordered it.

So despite the large number of negative comments about the price here and on FB it looks like FS priced it very well from their perspective.

320Willoyd
Apr. 21, 2022, 3:11 pm

Delighted it's selling so well - should help with the FS finances. Personally I genuinely can't see why anybody would pay £1000 for this other than to sell it on later. Of all the FS LOTR productions to date, this is the one I find least appealing. Size alone puts me off. But FS are obviously a much better judge of its market, and, as already commented, thank goodness we're all different in what we prefer/want from a book.

321antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 21, 2022, 3:29 pm

>319 punkzip: Given that the website collapsed for the first few hours it was on sale & this collapse also put severe pressure on the phone lines as people tried to phone in orders, selling out in a few hours wasn't really an option ! Hopefully if they do similar timed releases in the future they will learn their lesson & beef up their website to handle the increased traffic to avoid a lot of the stress & frustration that many had for the first few hours of this release !

322antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 21, 2022, 3:40 pm

>320 Willoyd: Certainly it’s more noticeable over the past year or so that when it comes to LE’s many more people seem to take the ‘I’ll buy it so i don't get FOMO, then if i don't really like it , or change my mind, i know i can always flip it & get my money back/make a small profit’ approach. Current resale prices almost guarantee that you wont lose any money if you change your mind.
I can’t believe scalpers are already trying to selling copies on eBay for £1800 while you can still buy it from Folio for £999 - they used to at least wait until an edition had sold out !

323treereader
Apr. 21, 2022, 3:37 pm

>321 antinous_in_london:
It's a curious thing. Had the website worked in the first hour or two, I would've purchased it quite blindly. But since they forced me to wait, I had time to better look at the website and better evaluate my interest in it.

324antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 21, 2022, 3:50 pm

>323 treereader: Weirdly i was the same - i had planned to buy it upon release out of force of habit , but having a few hours to look at it & think about it cooled my interest a little. I guess this is part of the reason why they refuse to officially release any details of the edition before the sales period starts. Ideally they would release details of the edition in advance so people could evaluate it, then they could still set a specific date/time for the start of sales then people aren’t going into it blindly or in a mad panic to snap one up 30 seconds after it has been posted.

325What_What
Apr. 21, 2022, 4:47 pm

I imagine by tomorrow we should start seeing photos for those lucky enough to live in proximity of the FS.

326assemblyman
Apr. 21, 2022, 4:53 pm

>325 What_What: Someone has some up already on the Facebook group. It looks much better than on the FS site which is usually the case. Those who went for it should be very happy when they receive it.

327Neil77
Apr. 21, 2022, 4:58 pm

>325 What_What: >326 assemblyman:

Just saw the pics - looks exquisite. I am glad I managed to place an order.

94 left.

328L.Bloom
Apr. 21, 2022, 5:12 pm

This looks great. The price point is the major point of discord here. FS is clearly whale hunting with releases like this. Nothing wrong with that, many companies have gone to this model of marketing. I say if we are going into the stratosphere on pricing, let's tack on another few thousand and just letterpress the thing. Works of comparable size and scope can be had letterpress (think Arion Don Quixote) for not terribly much more than this. Crank it up to $5-6K and do a proper letterpress.

329Hamwick
Apr. 21, 2022, 5:36 pm

>326 assemblyman: Hi Assemblyman, do you have a link for the facebook group pictures that you could attach? I just had a look and could not find the posted pictures (I have not used facebook that often).

330What_What
Apr. 21, 2022, 5:40 pm

>326 assemblyman: Oh thank you, I checked it out and it huge! And looks much better than the photos on the website. What an edition.

Only 66 copies left!

331punkzip
Apr. 21, 2022, 6:17 pm

>322 antinous_in_london: "Certainly it’s more noticeable over the past year or so that when it comes to LE’s many more people seem to take the ‘I’ll buy it so i don't get FOMO, then if i don't really like it , or change my mind, i know i can always flip it & get my money back/make a small profit’ approach. Current resale prices almost guarantee that you wont lose any money if you change your mind."

I think that's likely true in the UK. In the US the price for me is arond $1740 (I live in a high tax state). It's definitely more than that in AUS, and maybe in Canada. If it's an eBay sale, would have to sell for more than $2000 USD, not including shipping, to break even.

332antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 21, 2022, 6:24 pm

>331 punkzip: Definitely much more applicable to the UK where Folio’s price doesn't have any of the pricey add-ons international customers have to bear ! On eBay UK if you catch one of their ‘maximum £1 final value fees’ offers you can sell a £2000 book & only pay £1 in fees which also helps people wanting to sell-on !

333DramPan
Apr. 21, 2022, 6:26 pm

Only 37 more copies!

335cronshaw
Apr. 21, 2022, 6:51 pm

I'm pleased for Folio's sake that this is a success, as this LE must undoubtedly now be considered, despite the first hour or so's on-line ordering glitches and the significant number of Devotees who dislike the binding style. Folio only needed to find 1,000 Tolkien/Alan Lee fans willing to cough up £1,000 (more if you live in the U.S. or the Folio-Mordor that is Australia) and they appear to have done exactly that, well within 48 hours, if the current rate of on-line gobbling continues. Alan Lee seems so revered among the hundreds of thousands who constitute the Tolkien fan base that a fine limited edition bearing his signature (albeit tipped in) and with some extra artwork was always likely to do well if adequate attention was paid to quality of materials.

>326 assemblyman: >327 Neil77: I'm also pleased to learn that this LE looks and feels much better in the flesh/in other photos than it does on the FS website. Surely Folio ought to consider how better to showcase their editions on-line? I for one was nonplussed by the evidently odd alignment of the symbols below the spine titles; I now understand that there is some embossing at the base of the spines, including an embossed tower at the base of the second spine. However, this is barely visible in the images on the FS website, and not shown at all in the video. This is a shame, because it thereby fails to explain what otherwise looks like an off-putting design decision.

Congratulations to all LotR & Alan Lee fans who managed to secure a copy. Please share images as and when you can :)

336wcarter
Apr. 21, 2022, 7:04 pm

Last chance, 14 left!!!

337Hamwick
Apr. 21, 2022, 7:08 pm

>334 What_What: thank you :)

338Neil77
Apr. 21, 2022, 7:11 pm

1 left…

339LoveAlice
Apr. 21, 2022, 7:16 pm

Gone…..

340wcarter
Apr. 21, 2022, 7:26 pm

34 hours and 15 minutes to sell out.

341treereader
Apr. 21, 2022, 7:51 pm

>340 wcarter:
I'd add an asterisk to that, given the problems with the website. There's good indication that sales would have moved faster if everyone would've been able to make their purchases at the open. The momentum would've been uninterrupted or at least more sustainable.

342Shadekeep
Apr. 21, 2022, 10:30 pm

Kudos to FS for a successful campaign. And I'm glad to hear that the copies are even nicer in person!

343NLNils
Apr. 21, 2022, 11:56 pm

This will be published as an SE in the future, I have no doubt. The market is still there and I would actually welcome the books in a smaller format. This LE looks fantastic and I congratulate every buyer! Enjoy the set!

344wcarter
Apr. 22, 2022, 12:07 am

There are already four for sale on Ebay varying from a 20% to 50% markup.

345A.Godhelm
Apr. 22, 2022, 1:45 am

>344 wcarter: It's interesting to note that while the prices are astronomical in real money the markups aren't the 100-400% increases we've seen on titles like the Pratchett novels. Perhaps the sweet spot for scalping is always at the lower rungs?

346cameronm75
Apr. 22, 2022, 2:15 am

>318 Shadekeep:
I can't believe I missed this!

347cwl
Apr. 22, 2022, 2:23 am

Agreed; 20-50% could be considered a standard markup, particularly once Ebay/PayPal fees and actual shipping costs for something this size are taken into account. Next bet: how long until the SE is released and what changes will it see cf to the LE? I also wager that it will easily be a couple hundred pounds or more, particularly given our current inflation. The spine embossing was visible on the FS website once zoomed in but the silver symbol alignment still didn’t work for me. You could see the recess on the cover illustrations, but not their relative depth; they would always be a liability in actual use. For those that liked this edition, enjoy. There was an article some years ago discussing the current cost of true first editions and comparing them to secondary binders like FS. They explicitly cited FS’s ability to create a slap-up LOTR whenever the desire suited them. I can’t find it now, but the last few days certainly reminded me of it.

348A.Godhelm
Apr. 22, 2022, 2:46 am

>347 cwl: Next bet: how long until the SE is released
Does anyone know if Folio has handled this kind of situation previously? They have "their" LOTR set in print and ready to order right now. There would undoubtedly be a market for an SE even at crazy prices like 300-400 (basically the price of certain LEs) in my view. But it seems like a pickle to run them concurrently.
what changes will it see cf to the LE?
Definitely a more compact size from the outset. No tipped in illustrations. Binding downgraded to cloth. Cover illustrations moved to the interior of each book. No two colour printing.
At least that's my guess for a budget version, but if they cut it back too much the HarperCollins set looks like a better alternative so I'm unsure where they'd draw the line and like I said I think they have a lot of leeway pricing a SE.

349abysswalker
Apr. 22, 2022, 3:17 am

>348 A.Godhelm: The Book of the New Sun limited edition seems like the most likely template. Big fantasy series limited edition, later released as standard edition with downgraded materials, the same art, and two volumes rather than four (in that case). I suspect a new Lord of the Rings standard edition would remain in three volumes, but otherwise follow a similar approach.

350assemblyman
Apr. 22, 2022, 3:35 am

>337 Hamwick: Sorry Hamwick, I only saw your post just now but it looks like >334 What_What: has sorted it for you.

351Pellias
Apr. 22, 2022, 4:35 am

Some observant person on facebook posted this :

`I was wondering why the color palette of the binding on the new LOTR LE seemed so familiar, and then I realized that Aragorn wore the same colors in the RoTK movie`

352Pellias
Apr. 22, 2022, 4:38 am

353mnmcdwl
Bearbeitet: Apr. 22, 2022, 6:14 am

I was one of those who jumped at buying this. The Lord of the Rings was part of my first order from Folio Society (along with the now lauded Seamus Heaney Beowulf) and it was enevitable that FOMO would drive me to buy a nicer version if one came along. I'll save final judgement for when I receive it, but I think it's lovely and it'll go nicely next to my copy of The Wanderer. At any rate, the previous Limited Deluxe edition and this one each have their strong points, and I don't think this one is on sum worse than the previous version. Of course, if Thornwillow Press ever strikes a deal to do a letterpress version...

354Hamwick
Apr. 22, 2022, 7:50 am

>350 assemblyman: no problem, thank you for letting us know that someone had shared their version already.

355Shadekeep
Apr. 22, 2022, 10:58 am

>346 cameronm75: Aww, sorry about that! If it's any consolation, it looks like copies are already on sale in the secondary market.

356strangenews
Apr. 22, 2022, 12:14 pm

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357strangenews
Apr. 22, 2022, 12:24 pm

Diese Nachricht wurde vom Autor gelöscht.

358punkzip
Apr. 22, 2022, 12:53 pm

>345 A.Godhelm: "It's interesting to note that while the prices are astronomical in real money the markups aren't the 100-400% increases we've seen on titles like the Pratchett novels. Perhaps the sweet spot for scalping is always at the lower rungs?"

For sure. I doubt there is much profit to be made scalping this release. I see 5 currently on eBay. The interesting one is the auction starting at 1400 GBP. Add in eBay fees, and this would be around a 200 GBP profit for the UK seller if there is one bid. Selling at the US equivalent of 1400 GBP for a US buyer would result in a loss.

359antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 22, 2022, 1:44 pm

>358 punkzip: Not necessarily. eBay UK are currently running a £1 maximum final value fees offer for any items listed during the offer for some users, so if the £1400 copy received 1 bid the seller could end up paying £1 in fees resulting in a £399 profit - not a bad profit to make in a few days on a £1000 purchase.

360bookaroo
Apr. 22, 2022, 9:18 pm

>117 cronshaw: Exactly my thoughts! Please come back, Joe Whitlock-Blundell :-)

361punkzip
Apr. 22, 2022, 9:21 pm

>359 antinous_in_london: Well there is a bid, will be interesting to see what the final sale price is.

362whytewolf1
Bearbeitet: Apr. 22, 2022, 9:27 pm

>117 cronshaw: >360 bookaroo: Actually, if you look at the pictures of some of the received books, it's very clear why that's the case. And it wasn't at all a design travesty.

363RATBAG.
Apr. 22, 2022, 9:42 pm

I caved in and bought it.

Mainly because I had never read LotR before (only seen the movies) and figured that, if I might as well do it, I'll treat myself to the definitive edition.

Glad it is being printed in Italy as well - Alan Lee's work is going to be accurately and beautifully rendered with such meticulous attention to detail. (Their printing partner is L.E.G.O., S.p.A. in Vicenza, Italy)

364nightdances
Apr. 23, 2022, 7:40 am

A few people on the Facebook group have reported that their copies arrived damaged. Folio doesn't seem to have held back any copies for replacement 😔

365hoyasaxa
Apr. 23, 2022, 8:47 am

>364 nightdances: as someone who is waiting for a set in the US, that is concerning! Any idea of the type of damage? I do not have a Facebook account.

366SDB2012
Bearbeitet: Apr. 23, 2022, 11:30 am

>364 nightdances: That's surprising. The last few LEs I've received from FS have been packaged exceptionally well. Years ago, I received several damaged books because they'd been delivered in the Royal Mail bags and must have been slung across the room onto the trucks and then slung onto my porch. The recent deliveries have all been in boxes in which the books are secured with a substantial amount of cardboard which is floating within layers of recyclable packaging then surrounded by a sturdy outer box. I forget which book it was but a recent LE was left by the post in a rainstorm and the book was fine.

367HugoDumas
Bearbeitet: Apr. 23, 2022, 10:47 am

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368vmb443
Apr. 23, 2022, 12:48 pm

>365 hoyasaxa: Seems to be a number of things, but mainly scuffs to the leather on the spine, one had a tipped in illustration folded at the corner. I am not sure the rate of production problems for other LEs, so don't know if it's better or worse than other ones. It sounds too that Folio has no replacement copies for those which are damaged. Mine are in the process of shipping and I am hoping they come in pristine condition. I'm not sure why there wasn't more quality control checks for such an expensive set of books.

Also, I have just noticed a book seller on eBay who has already sold two sets and just posted a third one for sale - at over $1000 mark-up. I know there is no way of stopping resellers, but it does seem to have become more of a problem with the expanded customer base of Folio. Seeing that and knowing that some copies are coming in less than perfect condition (without potential for replacement) is disappointing. As I said, I know no way of getting around the reselling going on, but I do fear that Folio is going to be the recipient of some ill will out there if the quality control isn't quickly addressed and at the same time the resellers are so quick to purchase multiple copies.

369hoyasaxa
Apr. 23, 2022, 12:53 pm

>368 vmb443: that is frustrating. Thanks for the summary. I will be sure to inspect my set thoroughly when it arrives. Surprised that: 1) there are many issues with such an expensive set; and 2) they didn’t set some aside for replacements. If my set has problems, I don’t really want a refund and then have to pay more to buy a decent copy from a reseller (most of whom are probably selling them before the books have arrived and can be examined).

370treereader
Apr. 23, 2022, 3:53 pm

Maybe the 200 that weren’t going to be ready for another couple months are the replacement batch.

371antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 23, 2022, 6:01 pm

>370 treereader: I’m not sure those even exist. They originally put a note on the listing advising a mid-May delivery for the last few hundred copies, yet a friend who bought one of the last 5 copies had his copy shipped yesterday, so unless they have a weird way of prioritising the orders those 200 they said would ship in mid-May cant have been allocated for the last 200 orders placed. I cant imagine they would produce 200 replacements for an edition of 1000 - that would suggest a huge QC failure that they knew about in advance as they said those 200 were being bound in Italy - while they were still selling the edition.

372vmb443
Bearbeitet: Apr. 23, 2022, 6:06 pm

I see the eBay seller who has already sold three now has a fourth for sale. Since they are clearly selling them sight unseen (as they are in the US) is it terribly wrong of me to hope those are the ones with the quality control problems and the seller has to take a loss due to them not being in pristine condition?

>370 treereader: >371 antinous_in_london: I asked Folio, after receiving a high number on the Hill House LE when I had purchased with the counter showing only a handful sold, why that was. The response was that in fast sales like that, the counter may not be accurate. I would understand that early on, not sure how - if at all - it may translate to the final copies.

373treereader
Apr. 23, 2022, 7:09 pm

>371 antinous_in_london:

It’s possible that the counter was rigged to sell out after 800 copies and that the remaining 200 are for error replacements. If I was a publisher I wouldn’t want to divulge my error rates, either, but if that’s what’s going on, a 20% error forecast would be a rather embarrassing number.

374cronshaw
Apr. 23, 2022, 7:58 pm

>362 whytewolf1: I agree, I've just seen some images from an eBay listing (amazing, a re-seller who's actually taken his own photos). The blind embossing to the spines is very clear and thus the positioning of the silver symbols makes more sense. I do find it odd that a random eBay seller takes far clearer photos of a significant design detail than FS themselves in their marketing photos for their website.

I have to say I still don't find the overall spine design inspired, it's fairly dull and unimaginative compared to most LEs, and the inclusion of the (very corporate looking) FS logo at the base of the spine jars. The design of the spine of The Wanderer LE is quite superior to my eye. If the MBA bods at Folio Heights felt they had to include the logo, lest customers forget who the publisher is, couldn't they have least shown some creativity with a more Middle Earthly 'FS'? Folio did this a lot during their golden age, adapting the logo to the feel of the book/binding design; it's a shame they've lost that particular creative sensibility in recent years.

375whytewolf1
Apr. 23, 2022, 8:35 pm

>374 cronshaw: I appreciate the nuanced response. And I don't disagree with many of your points. Why in this day and age Folio chooses to use such small photos on their website is a mystery to me, especially when it comes to their limited editions. They could certainly take a lesson from many of the newer small/fine presses in terms of visual presentation.

376antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Apr. 23, 2022, 9:09 pm

>373 treereader: I Cant believe they would have a 20% overage for replacements - when you’re selling a book for £1000 every single copy should be QC’d to within an inch of its life long before its been packed. It seems people are getting damaged copies so this can’t have happened. Even if they did make extra for replacement (which no one has confirmed) checking copies before they go out is a much better look & less embarrassing than having to replace copies that customers have receive in less than perfect condition. Not sure what the packaging is like on this set & whether any damage is transit-related, but the Philip K Dick set (which was much cheaper than this) was packed inside a fortress & i cant imagine they got any transit damage on that set so there’s no excuse for transit damage either if they made the same effort with the packaging for this set..

377wcarter
Apr. 23, 2022, 10:19 pm

Some of the damage being complained about on Facebook is quite trivial and may be due to natural variations in the texture of the leather.

378cwl
Apr. 24, 2022, 2:29 am

>377 wcarter: If it’s to do c natural leather variation, that would indicate that these buyers were otherwise unfamiliar with leather-bound books and might signal who the intended market for this set could be. I’m suddenly picturing the books sitting alongside plastic figurines, graphic novels and garish sci-fi paperbacks (my wife loves the latter, so I know the look well!). Oh, bless them, elitist as this might be. ;)

379strangenews
Apr. 24, 2022, 4:43 am

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380lgreen666
Apr. 24, 2022, 6:55 am

Great Deceiver! (figurines that is not a comment on this LE)

381Shadekeep
Apr. 24, 2022, 9:32 am

>379 strangenews: "Set includes a limited FuncoPop of the Witch-King of Angmar!" :D

382boldface
Apr. 24, 2022, 9:42 am

Imagine the conspiracy theories if they'd concealed a free ring with every set. All purchasers are now under the control of ???? The curse of the Witch King falls on all resellers.

383treereader
Bearbeitet: Apr. 24, 2022, 11:04 am

>376 antinous_in_london:

I absolutely agree. I think it would unacceptable to operate like that. It's not impossible, though, which is what's concerning.

384What_What
Apr. 24, 2022, 7:17 pm

>368 vmb443: What does people buying multiple copies have to do with some books having quality control issues? Every book is a sale, and every sale should be a perfect copy. A reseller buying two copies isn’t robbing someone of a replacement.

The issues I’ve seen on Facebook are very much not what I would call trivial, and I certainly wouldn’t want them in a $2,100 CAD set of books.

385What_What
Bearbeitet: Apr. 24, 2022, 7:25 pm

>378 cwl: Ugh! Disgusting. And it continues into >379 strangenews:. Forget about those people with LOTR figurines, let’s just keep printing facsimiles of 700 year old psalters.

386Shadekeep
Apr. 24, 2022, 7:26 pm

>384 What_What: I do hope they have a mitigation strategy in place for the damaged volumes. This isn't the kind of thing you want bad blood over. (Well, nothing is, but this seems like it could have high visibility if they don't make things right.)

387What_What
Apr. 24, 2022, 7:55 pm

>386 Shadekeep: Someone earlier today posted an email where the FS agent essentially said they do have replacement copies, and it wasn’t at all that only refunds should be the only option.

388Shadekeep
Apr. 24, 2022, 8:44 pm

>387 What_What: Excellent, glad to hear it! Good news indeed.

389RoganJosh
Apr. 24, 2022, 11:29 pm

Eagerly awaiting my copy but I’ve been wondering - does this version of the book come with the Book of Mazarbul illustrations (see - https://reddit.com/r/lotr/comments/7cadm3/til_tolkien_originally_created_a_full_... They’re in my 50th anniversary edition of Lord of the Rings and I’m curious about whether they’re replicated in the FS version.

390NLNils
Apr. 25, 2022, 12:27 am

>389 RoganJosh: I don’t think so. All the illustrations are by Lee, right?

391RoganJosh
Apr. 25, 2022, 12:41 am

>390 NLNils: Yeah, the website indicates that all the illustrations are done by Lee so I suppose it makes sense that they wouldn’t be included. However, Tolkien did think they were an integral part of the text and was quite put out when they couldn’t be included in the first edition, so I thought there would be a good chance they were included. As far as I’m aware, they aren’t really ‘illustrations’ per se but rather photographs of physical documents made up by Tolkien to look distressed.

392strangenews
Apr. 25, 2022, 3:34 am

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393cwl
Bearbeitet: Apr. 25, 2022, 4:05 am

My entire post was meant as gentle fun, hence my winking face at the end. Forbidden Planet does exist for a reason. I’ve even been there for book signings :)
Who said anything about psalters? Surely we need monumental illustrated fruit and veg scrolls in a handy wooden display case with turn screws instead.

394English-bookseller
Apr. 25, 2022, 4:34 am

I would very much like The Folio Society to stay true to its tradition of publishing books to a very high standard, covering a wide range of subjects and by fine writers.

They have not in my opinion totally overthrown that great tradition but they do seem to be going for quick wins with high-priced, glossy science fiction and fantasy published in over-priced fancy editions. If they take this trend too far then they will lose their enviable reputation earned over many decades of being a discerning and trusted publisher, any of whose books could be recommended - geared to the age of the reader - for being of great value, with wonderful production standards, of lasting appeal and always with solid literary merit. They should I would expect have a bright future that way.

If they wish to focus on over-priced science fiction and fantasy bestsellers, they may both lose their traditional market and face growing competition in their new niche.

If The Folio Society wish to improve their profitability, i recommend they sort out their IT (sometimes their website does not allow you to order books!) and revise their marketing. I do not know how many thousands of pounds I have spent with them over the years, but in the past two or three years I never receive any marketing in the post telling me about their new books.

395strangenews
Apr. 25, 2022, 5:28 am

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396English-bookseller
Bearbeitet: Apr. 25, 2022, 11:45 am

I liked your above post and the points you make therein. Trying to get the best of both worlds, The Folio Society might consider having a separate imprint for its SF/Fantasy titles. You could run the two imprints with broadly the same staff, premises, systems and capital but present two faces in the market place to suit the two different audiences i.e. those who prefer the traditional literature works versus the higher priced and more niche SF/Fantasy works.

The above might avoid some confusion among book-buyers. I revere the traditional approach of The Society and think one or two of their recent SF/Fantasy offerings are high priced and of little literary merit. Others who prefer the very same books that I do not value might look at The Society's other offerings and think this publisher is not for them.

So it's a case of Horses for courses.

397SDB2012
Apr. 25, 2022, 11:44 am

Just received my copy. There was no visible damage to mine. As usual, it was well-packaged by FS. Initial impressions- BIG. The books are almost too big for my taste but the positive trade-off is that the text is much larger with more room to breathe and should make a better reading experience than my 2002 FS LOTR reprint. I'll read this next month and see if that holds true. The art looks great. I'm not a fan of the cloth sides as they will pick up blemishes quickly.

398NathanOv
Bearbeitet: Apr. 25, 2022, 12:14 pm

So, my summary of Lee’s art in these after seeing critiques that “most is previously published in the Harper Collins editions” is that you’re getting 125 pieces compared to Lee’s original suite of 50 paintings:

- 53 color plates
- 57 brand-new drawings
- 6 brand new end papers
- 3 cover paintings
- 4 emblazoned spine & slipcase designs
- 1 gliclee print
- 1 painting embedded in the slipcase.

Granted, the color paintings are still the most impressive of the works, but they’re presented in their finest means yet, and with the new ornamental borders which, with the portfolio of maps, make up even more artwork within this very special edition.

I think Folio really undersold the amount of art in this one, even if there is some repetition between the cover arts & gliclee print and the interior illustrations, though I’ve yet to notice it if so.

399cronshaw
Apr. 25, 2022, 1:23 pm

>398 NathanOv: Are the six endpaper illustrations all different?

400Nerevarine
Bearbeitet: Apr. 25, 2022, 4:11 pm

>398 NathanOv: Folio Society sold it exactly as it is. Those 57 new drawings that you described are in fact chapter openers…as FS stated specifically.

And that’s not counting the fact that those 6 brand new endpapers are exactly the same illustration. Or that the illustration inside the slipcase is not a new one. Your description is way too deceptive imo, and people would have been rightfully mad should FS described it as you did lol.

Here’s what FS described on their product page :

“Lee’s original illustrations have been reproduced to the artist’s exacting standards, in a scale and quality never seen before, and have been augmented by several entirely new images, including enchanting endpapers depicting the One Ring long before it came into Frodo’s possession, three frontispieces, two revised versions of existing illustrations, a new image titled ‘The Grey Havens’ and an exclusive giclée print.

As well as 53 colour illustrations across three volumes, each printed on gorgeous Veltique paper and hand-tipped within decorative borders, Lee has drawn 57 stunning new chapter openers”

That’s way more accurate and it perfectly describes what you get with this edition.

401NathanOv
Bearbeitet: Apr. 25, 2022, 4:59 pm

>400 Nerevarine: My gripe with that is that it doesn't distinguish new from recycled art, and those two numbers (53 plates, 57 drawings) are leaving a lot of people scratching their heads given the new art that's been described, such as the Grey Havens painting which doesn't seem to be included in the count of new art but raise a question mark of how many color plates there actually are.

402EdmundRodriguez
Apr. 25, 2022, 5:09 pm

No quality issues with my copy.

As is often the case, I like it more in person than I did from the photos! The large size really works for me, illustrations are excellent and the quality seems high. To improve on this edition (for me) someone would need to produce a 7 volume, full red goatskin binding, letterpress printed edition (ideally also ~12inch tall) on mould-made paper (hand-made would probably be excessive) - and if that ever exists it would cost so much that having already spent £1,000 on this edition would be completely irrelevant.

However, I'd echo comments regarding the slipcase potentially feeling less substantial than it should be.

403Dr.Fiddy
Apr. 25, 2022, 5:49 pm

Another happy owner here! Arrived in perfect condition inside the biggest box I've had from FS so far... I'm impressed by the overall quality of the product, but mostly by the inside of the books. The Munken Pure paper  feels great to the touch. Also, the page design, the font, the two-colour printing and the illustrations tipped within borders, look really amazing!

404vmb443
Apr. 25, 2022, 6:28 pm

Received mine today as well - very happy with my copy - no quality control problems. I think it looks better in person than the website - I am quite happy with it!

405LesMiserables
Apr. 26, 2022, 7:46 am

No doubt Folio will bring out a plebeian edition fast on the heels of the LE.

The old LE certainties are a distant memory.

406English-bookseller
Apr. 26, 2022, 10:30 am

>405 LesMiserables: I can see that selling well with the Lee illustrations.

407folio_books
Apr. 26, 2022, 1:47 pm

Just a thought - has anyone received the brochure for the LotR LE yet? I'm assuming they will produce one and I'm looking to scan and send it to Warwick for uploading to the Wiki.

408ubiquitousuk
Apr. 26, 2022, 3:57 pm

>407 folio_books: Is there a chance they decided to forgo the printing of a brochure for a book that was likely to be sold-out before the brochure even made it to UK-based customers?

409folio_books
Bearbeitet: Apr. 26, 2022, 4:36 pm

>408 ubiquitousuk:

It's entirely possible. It pays never to rule anything out with Folio.

410Petrichory
Bearbeitet: Apr. 26, 2022, 5:39 pm

-Looks fondly at the Alan Lee LOTR i got free with joining the Sci-fi and Fantasy Bookclub in the early 90s-

Nope, this one isn’t for me…

411CobbsGhost
Bearbeitet: Apr. 26, 2022, 6:02 pm

The dilemma for me will come if the Hobbit becomes an LE. I was not around for the original LE, but would love to have acquired it. The Lord of the Rings is fine but the Hobbit is the sort of story you keep to restore generations.

412whytewolf1
Apr. 26, 2022, 6:04 pm

>411 CobbsGhost: "The dilemma for me will come if the Hobbit becomes an LE. "

I think that's very likely.

413What_What
Apr. 26, 2022, 7:27 pm

Hopefully there’s a way to match the number when The Hobbit and The Silmarillion get published.

414whytewolf1
Apr. 26, 2022, 8:35 pm

>413 What_What: Someone pointed out that they did offer to do this for Shakespeare purchasers, and that was certainly in recent years, so hopefully, they will do the same here.

415CobbsGhost
Apr. 26, 2022, 9:58 pm

>412 whytewolf1: Unfortunately, I think you're right.

416FitzJames
Apr. 26, 2022, 10:19 pm

Having always liked the calligraphy of the earlier Folio LE, I was rather surprised to find how little they retailed for when looking through the Wiki: The Hobbit for £95, The Silmarillion for £110, and The Lord of the Rings for £275.

Of an age where I did not even know of these until they had long been secondary market only, I still thought they must have initially commanded much higher sums given the heights they now occupy.

417astropi
Apr. 26, 2022, 11:56 pm

As expected...


But for those not planning on paying exorbitant prices, I'm sure the standard edition will be lovely.

418LostStar
Apr. 27, 2022, 1:23 pm

I need a Standard Edition.

419Silver-Books
Apr. 27, 2022, 2:47 pm

Hopefully this and the upcoming Gormenghast will have standard editions as well.

420astropi
Apr. 27, 2022, 5:55 pm

I agree, the Standard Edition is the way to go. Also, I really question why the FS only produced 1000 copies? Granted, 1000 copies is a decent amount for a limited edition, but for something this popular I would have produced 2000-3000. Or, perhaps more. Another missed opportunity by the FS...

421punkzip
Apr. 27, 2022, 7:33 pm

>420 astropi:" I agree, the Standard Edition is the way to go. Also, I really question why the FS only produced 1000 copies? Granted, 1000 copies is a decent amount for a limited edition, but for something this popular I would have produced 2000-3000. Or, perhaps more. Another missed opportunity by the FS.."

The more that are produced the less attractive the set becomes as a LIMITED edition.

422whytewolf1
Bearbeitet: Apr. 27, 2022, 7:42 pm

>421 punkzip: "The more that are produced the less attractive the set becomes as a LIMITED edition."

Indeed. And as a separate point, the rights holders often have quite a lot to say about how many copies they will allow to be produced, and for various reasons, it is often less than the LE publisher may desire.

423mr.philistine
Apr. 28, 2022, 12:51 am

>376 antinous_in_london: ...the Philip K Dick set (which was much cheaper than this) was packed inside a fortress...

For those still awaiting their precious parcel, perhaps this photo will help assuage any uncertainties about packing failures from the FS. (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134095468844)

424A.Godhelm
Apr. 28, 2022, 12:56 am

>422 whytewolf1: it is often less than the LE publisher may desire.
I get why limited editions require limited print runs (and the more limited they are the better for collector value), but this one is throwing me for a loop. The rights holders presumably get their cut, so what is their incentive to limit a limited run, if someone wanted to make 5000 copies or 10000 (as ridiculous as that may be for the concept of "limited")?

425Lokhe
Apr. 28, 2022, 3:48 am

>413 What_What: I realise that when you guys say 'when' it's not a matter of any such edition being confirmed, but is there some sort of precedent here to lean on for when we should expect a LE Silmarillion for example, should such a thing even be conceived? :)

426mr.philistine
Apr. 28, 2022, 4:35 am

Behold, the first YouTube discussion of the FS 2022 LE LOTR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpA7EMlu7fQ

Given that the secret of the 'new Tolkien LE' release has been revealed, perhaps it is time to rename this thread more accurately?

427whytewolf1
Apr. 28, 2022, 11:58 am

>424 A.Godhelm: First, let me assure you that this happens all the time (rights holders setting strong limits on how many copies may be produced, irrespective of how many the LE publishers think they can sell). I've had conversations with a number of people who negotiate licenses for LE books, as well as other types of products. Rights holders often have different incentives at play than just making as much money as they can on a particular release. They worry about the integrity of their IP's brand(s), they worry about competing licensees (or those who perceive themselves to be competing), and they worry about the long-term value of their IP. Like all of us, they may also make many assumptions that are not based on facts.

428Shadekeep
Apr. 28, 2022, 4:54 pm

>419 Silver-Books: Yes, I really want to be able to afford the Gormenghast edition, and SE would be fine with me as long as it's nicely done.

429What_What
Apr. 28, 2022, 11:28 pm

>425 Lokhe: No precedent I’m aware of unfortunately.

430Lokhe
Apr. 29, 2022, 3:10 am

>429 What_What: I assumed as much but I was curious. Wait and see then :)

431EuanM
Apr. 29, 2022, 2:51 pm

Just bought the HarperCollins Hobbit & LOTR boxset at 40% off in their bank holiday sale. Most of the proper Alan Lee illustrations at 5% of the price of this LE, figure that's a good deal. And it looks a smart set.

432wcarter
Bearbeitet: Apr. 29, 2022, 7:26 pm

Copy 479 of the magnificent Lord of the Rings limited edition reached me in Australia yesterday. It is a superb set and is now one of my favourite LEs, and I have started what is probably my tenth reread already.

There are millions of Tolkien fans on the planet, and as more of them become aware of this wonderful set, which is probably the most luxurious published, the demand for them will increase.

The flippers will sell their stock in the next few week, then these books will be very tightly held, and with very few on the market, prices will become astronomical over the next year or so.

433stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Apr. 29, 2022, 9:01 pm

A few people having quality issues with this edition, particularly with the Two Towers. The leather (which unfortunately is just a cheap coated split - a bit cheeky for £1000) is getting splits of the other kind (usually but not exclusively) on the top left at the edge of the blind stamping. Also other issues with rubbed/missing finish to the leather. Make sure you check your copies carefully and report any quality problems back to FS Customer Service. I only now specifically of 4 copies with this issue, but I also only know a handful of people with the books (and I'm not on FaceBook, etc), so...

(probably already covered earlier in the thread, but wasn't going to read 400 posts!)

434stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Apr. 29, 2022, 10:32 pm

>400 Nerevarine:

“Lee’s original illustrations have been reproduced to the artist’s exacting standards, in a scale and quality never seen before, and have been augmented by several entirely new images, including enchanting endpapers depicting the One Ring long before it came into Frodo’s possession, three frontispieces, two revised versions of existing illustrations, a new image titled ‘The Grey Havens’ and an exclusive giclée print.

Weird that they say "scale" and quality, given the illustrations are identical in size to the 1992 HarperCollins Trade Hardbacks.

435stubedoo
Apr. 30, 2022, 1:06 am

>371 antinous_in_london:

They do have a weird way of prioritising. I ordered when there was just over 100 left and my order has not shipped. I got a shipping notification for the free flyer, though...

436Lokhe
Bearbeitet: Apr. 30, 2022, 1:39 am

>433 stubedoo: Haven’t poured over mine to greater extent yet but upon initial inspection I found no issues with my copies.

I packed them back up however, as I’m moving in two months.

437stubedoo
Apr. 30, 2022, 3:03 am

>436 Lokhe:

Yeah, cool. I imagine most copies are fine, but there is clearly a small subset of them which have this problem. The sooner anyone reports it to FS, the more likely they will get a decent resolution, I suspect. Definitely a set to inspect carefully on receipt.

438cronshaw
Bearbeitet: Apr. 30, 2022, 5:08 am

>433 stubedoo: What do you mean by 'just a cheap coated split' with regards to the leather used for the binding this edition? I'm curious because in my long experience of FS and its numerous limited editions to date, I've never come across Folio using any type of leather that would approximate to such a description.

>434 stubedoo: Apparently there are more illustrations by Lee in this edition than in any previous, and it wouldn't be difficult to improve on both the image resolution and paper quality of any Harper Collins edition.

439stubedoo
Apr. 30, 2022, 5:11 am

>438 cronshaw:

They state the leather is goat split ("spaccato di capra") on the limitation page. It is undoubtedly relatively cheap leather. "Split" means not the top layer. And the way you make a split look like top grain is by coating it and then stamping it with a faux grain. EP does this with their books (though theirs are typically pigskin).

440stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Apr. 30, 2022, 5:22 am

>438 cronshaw:

Only the three frontispieces extra, so far as I am aware in terms of the colour illustrations. So more, but not much.

The 1992 HarperCollins Trade is actually not much different than this LE in terms of image reproduction (and image size is essentially identical). It isn't the same, though, and I suspect Alan Lee's vision of desired colouring changed over the years. You can see a comparison here (https://www.tolkienguide.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4435&start=170) Not the top post, but the third post down has a photo of side-by-side and then I did a bit of cut and paste from that photo just to compare some parts of the image directly . I actually see slightly more detail in some parts of the 1992 and less in others.

Later HarperCollins editions are total trash, particularly the 2020 which uses the same paper for the text and the images, so they are dull and lacking in detail.

This Folio seems fine, but it is - IMHO - aimed at somewhat undiscerning buyers that will buy anything with Tolkien on the cover, no matter what the price. Tolkien is very popular and expensive at the moment. This is an OK edition, but I really hope for something better in the future. HC have shown they can do it with the 2007 Super Deluxe Children of Hurin, but they haven't managed to pull that off since.

441wcarter
Apr. 30, 2022, 5:28 am

Further information about the manufacture and use of split leather can be obtained here -
https://www.leather-dictionary.com/index.php/Split_leather

442stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Apr. 30, 2022, 5:33 am

>441 wcarter:

Yes - and as it states, outside of the tannery, "split" is used exclusively to mean a layer other than the top one. To be fair, Folio aren't hiding the fact, though they didn't say anything about the leather in the publicity material. And like I say, EP standard editions are basically all split leather. It is OK, so long as you know what you are getting isn't exactly premium. Is it OK on a £1000 set? I guess that is down to the individual.

443Lokhe
Apr. 30, 2022, 5:38 am

>437 stubedoo: I’m not really familiar with this world of fine prints but it really should be zero when you’re paying this much and the number of copies is relatively low.

444stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Apr. 30, 2022, 5:42 am

>443 Lokhe:

Yeah, I'm really surprised at the problems, given Folio has a generally good quality reputation. The printers/binders, LEGO are generally very reliable as well from what I have seen. I think they just cheaped out on the leather.

446RogerBlake
Apr. 30, 2022, 3:14 pm

Given what I am reading about the leather I am rather glad I didn't go for this edition. The leather is rather minimal anyway - "quarter bound"? ... more like "eighth bound"!

My very first Folio order included the first LOTR edition - the one where the creamy grey leather was nearly always scratched and worn with reddish marks showing through. Even my brand new copy arrived like that and I was pretty unimpressed as it was a whopping £40 - a lot in those days on a student's budget. A great shame as I really liked the overall design.

447stubedoo
Apr. 30, 2022, 3:47 pm

>446 RogerBlake:

Yeah the white coating on that particular edition turns into white/grey powder over time and then just comes off on your hands. It is quite frustrating to say the least.

448folio_books
Apr. 30, 2022, 4:34 pm

>447 stubedoo:

My first copy did that. The replacement has held up well and still looks decent. Decent enough to allow me to decide not to pursue the latest edition, anyway.

449stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Apr. 30, 2022, 11:24 pm

>448 folio_books:

Yeah, I ended up ordering this (despite feeling very conflicted about what was on offer), mostly as an inflation hedge, but I'm now actually thinking of cancelling (is one of the mid-May copies) and someone on the waiting list can have the copy instead. For me an expensive editions needs to be made from quality materials, and I suspect this leather may be a problem in future, but almost more importantly, knowing it isn't very good would impact any enjoyment I might get. I guess it is like owning a Countach replica vs a Countach. They look the same, but you know one a fake.

450cronshaw
Apr. 30, 2022, 5:36 pm

>440 stubedoo: Thanks for that further information about the 'split' leather. I'm actually shocked that Folio appear to be using a distinctly lower grade leather for a limited edition costing £1000. I also don't think FS are being as open and honest about that as they could be using the Italian term 'staccato di cabra' which obviously won't mean much to English-speaking customers who don't have an in-depth knowledge of different leather types, and when the great majority of Folio customers expect their LEs to always have top-grain leathers for limited editions. I've never heard of such a lower grade leather being previously used for any LE, with the exception of the LE Mort, which cost only £100 or thereabouts and for which no details concerning the leather quality were provided in the marketing blurb: but then the Mort LE never appeared within the limited edition section of the FS website and no-one seriously considered it 'LE quality'.

I'm not a Facebook user. Are customers on Facebook complaining about the quality of the leather used for this recent LotR LE?

P.S. Wasn't there also supposed to be an 'extra' illustration called 'Grey Havens', beyond the three new frontispieces?

451stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Apr. 30, 2022, 6:06 pm

>450 cronshaw:

I'm not on FaceBook (thankfully), so not sure if anyone has any comments there. I haven't heard of anyone thinking it is rubbish, just being disappointed with the leather quality on such an expensive book and the splits/rubs, damage (mostly to The Two Towers), which they have reported to Folio CS. Over on TCG, there are four - I think - reporting the identical issue (three who are regulars, one including Chad who was on the video review and has now received his set, which is defective).

Equally, there are probably a larger number that have received their copies and are reporting that they have no issues (or simply have made no comment). Three regulars on a fairly small community seems a lot to be having this issue on such an expensive set, mind. If it is representative, I'd imagine the total number of problem sets isn't insignificant.

My main worry is how will these bindings stand up to the test of time if they can't even make it as far as the first customer. Split leather is fairly objectively rubbish. I have an 18 yo sofa made out of it (which was very cheap, so no complaints) and the surface is really starting to delaminate now in places that are subject to a lot of flexing. Like the hinge of a book...

Interestingly, FS stated nothing about the leather used in the marketing, which is probably - with the benefit of hindsight - a red flag. It is only described on the limitation page (using the Italian term that most people won't understand).

And yep, you are right about the extra piece of art. Forgot about that.

452whytewolf1
Apr. 30, 2022, 6:30 pm

453wcarter
Apr. 30, 2022, 6:55 pm

>452 whytewolf1:
Indeed, an excellent review.
If I hadn't been told the leather was split, I would not have known, as I cannot tell it apart from other FS LEs of recent years (eg. monte Cristo).

454stubedoo
Apr. 30, 2022, 7:31 pm

>453 wcarter:

Split leather mostly looks like topgrain. It just isn’t real and isn’t as long lasting. It can be stamped to look like anything, so you would not expect it to look wildly different, at least not when new.

455whytewolf1
Bearbeitet: Apr. 30, 2022, 10:32 pm

>453 wcarter: Yes, I agree. And despite what others are saying, there are Easton Press volumes bound in what, I'm quite sure, is leather inferior to this that I have owned for decades that are doing just fine. And I expect that if this set is handled and stored with the care befitting such a wonderful overall production, it will be doing just fine decades hence, as well.

456stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Apr. 30, 2022, 11:31 pm

>455 whytewolf1:

To be fair, the EPs bound in similar leather cost a tenth of the money (and they cover the whole book). What is OK on a cheap EP or a Barnes and Noble isn't necessarily OK on a *very* expensive Folio. Whether these will hold up is anybody's guess. We do know some of them haven't made it as far as the first customer without splits and rubs, but at this stage it might be a small percentage or it might be a lot. either way, it shouldn't be ANY, and it probably wouldn't be if good quality leather had been used, as so far as I am aware the only problems people are seeing with this edition pertain to the leather (which is objectively, not subjectively low-end).

I think time will tell on this set, but I hope there are better editions (both in terms of binding quality and design) to come, based of its sales success. I'd hate to think this was the pinnacle of Tolkien publishing, especially as HarperCollins has lost interest in producing any high-quality editions (though perhaps that will now change).

All that said, I hope those that bought this enjoy it. Horses for courses and all that.

457EdmundRodriguez
Mai 1, 2022, 3:24 am

>440 stubedoo: Do you know if the 2007 Super Deluxe Children of Hurin is printed on different paper to the regular deluxe, or any other improvements over it (excluding the binding and signatures)?

Resale never enters the equation for me, but I would be disappointed if the leather starts looking damaged after a few reads. Currently I think it looks great on the shelf, and the interior is far nicer to read than any other edition I've seen (size and paper probably a lot of this for me).

458stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Mai 1, 2022, 3:48 am

>457 EdmundRodriguez:

The page blocks for the 2007 CoH were (claimed to be) the first 500 standard deluxe edition blocks off the press. The only difference with the page blocks themselves is that they are gilded, the copyright page differs and the limitation page has been added. There are no other improvements/changes other than the binding, signatures and clamshell. I definitely think it is the best quality Tolkien publication in English language that I have seen. It really is a top end binding. The standard CoH first print from LEGO was a great basis for the book, fortunately as it was back when the "standard" deluxe editions were very good quality (some of the later ones were a mixed bag, as were most of the Chinese reprints). The Morocco leather used on the binding is absolutely excellent (whilst the leather used on the clamshell is probably Easton Press quality, being realistic). At an RRP of £350 back in 2007, it wasn't cheap, though they had regular sales that took 40% off and also at one point did a 2 for the price of 1.

459cronshaw
Mai 1, 2022, 6:21 am

>451 stubedoo: sorry, I thought that Folio had admitted in the marketing material that it was 'split leather' (though telling us only in Italian), I hadn't realised you had to buy the edition first to read that on the limitation page. I don't feel this is very honest marketing when their customers have a long history of expecting better materials. I'm very disappointed if FS are morphing into a sort of Easton Press with a gradual decline in materials, relying on illustrators' signatures and a limitation to pump up the price.

>452 whytewolf1: thanks for the link. The reviewer is clearly smitten with the overall design, paper type and the quality of the illustrations, but he notes the leather 'is very susceptible to chafing so be careful when you handle the books in and out of the slipcase ... I advise to keep the protective papers that folio ships with the set. It's a minor disappointment in the quality of the leather that it happens so fast ...'

460abysswalker
Mai 1, 2022, 6:46 am

>456 stubedoo: unfortunately there's often a perverse (but somewhat interesting) dynamic with the quality of materials used for books and secondhand market prices/demand. If the material is unsuited to binding and likely to deteriorate over time (such as sheepskin or silk), and the edition is limited, there will be almost certain attrition, leading to greater scarcity and even higher premium for fine or very fine condition specimens. Example: the LEC Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire has very fragile binding leading to a huge premium for fine condition in the original binding. The original leather Folio Society Lord of the Rings has a mild case of a similar problem. The leather used was low quality. It happens to still be my favorite edition of the work though, due to the nice text block. I appreciate a nice binding, but if the material or workmanship is inherently flawed I'd generally rather have a pre-loved edition that I don't need to worry about keeping pristine and can potentially get rebound in a competent manner at some point.

461English-bookseller
Mai 1, 2022, 11:13 am

A high quality and durable cloth binding should last for many years and does not bring any ethical issues in its use.

Most of us live I suggest in multicultural societies with diverse ethnic groups and I have never heard of a cloth bound book causing offence just because of the use of cloth.

The cost savings in choosing cloth could be used by The Folio Society for employing ... well, take your choice ... from higher quality paper, or letterpress, or better illustrations etc. Or even a lower price!

462cronshaw
Bearbeitet: Mai 1, 2022, 7:12 pm

>439 stubedoo: P.S. I'm further confused by the 'spaccato di capra' business. In the on-line marketing blurb for this LotR limited edition (still viewable under the FS website Limited Editions section), Folio state that 'each volume is quarter bound in burgundy calfskin leather...'. 'Capra' is the pretty unambiguous Italian for 'goat' so I haven't a clue what is going on with FS marketing, or what the binding is actually meant to be.

(corrected from 'staccato' to the less musical but smoother 'spaccato')

463Cat_of_Ulthar
Mai 1, 2022, 3:09 pm

>462 cronshaw:

I decided to cut to the chase and emailed customer services. I'll let you know what they say.

I'm very pleased with my copy whatever it's bound in :-)

464folio_books
Mai 1, 2022, 3:28 pm

>462 cronshaw: I'm further confused by the 'staccato di capra' business

You'll be delighted to know I put your confusion to Google Translate. "Staccato di capra" translates to "staccato of goat". No need to thank me...

465Shadekeep
Mai 1, 2022, 3:56 pm

>464 folio_books: So not as fine as a legato of lamb, then?

466folio_books
Mai 1, 2022, 4:08 pm

467stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Mai 1, 2022, 7:33 pm

>462 cronshaw:

Worth saying 'spaccato', not 'staccato' for anyone Googling!

Edit: Also I hadn't noticed the reference to calfskin in the top paragraph previously. I had only seen that in the production details they didn't mention the detail of the leather at all, simply stating "Quarter-bound in leather with cloth sides blocked in silver and inset with illustration labels ".

All very odd.

468folio_books
Mai 1, 2022, 4:31 pm

>467 stubedoo: Worth saying 'spaccato', not 'staccato'

Oh yes, that works better. "Cross-section of goat".

469stubedoo
Mai 1, 2022, 4:57 pm

>468 folio_books:

Yeah, "split" / "cut" / insert-synonym-here.

470stubedoo
Mai 1, 2022, 4:58 pm

>463 Cat_of_Ulthar:

Good job. Look forward to hearing their response.

471cronshaw
Mai 1, 2022, 6:56 pm

>464 folio_books: 😂

Dutifully amended...

472Hrodberht
Mai 2, 2022, 5:58 am

>426 mr.philistine: "Given that the secret of the 'new Tolkien LE' release has been revealed, perhaps it is time to rename this thread more accurately?"

A good idea. Perhaps one of our esteemed moderators can tweak this for us.

473wcarter
Mai 2, 2022, 6:02 am

474English-bookseller
Mai 2, 2022, 6:43 am

>463 Cat_of_Ulthar: Apart from cat skin presumably...

475cronshaw
Mai 2, 2022, 7:10 am

>463 Cat_of_Ulthar: thank you! Perhaps when it's not top-grain it doesn't matter much whether it's calf, goat or mûmakil.

476Hrodberht
Mai 2, 2022, 7:17 am

>473 wcarter: Thank you Warwick.

477Cat_of_Ulthar
Mai 2, 2022, 12:45 pm

>474 English-bookseller: 'Apart from cat skin presumably...'

Heh :-)

478stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Mai 2, 2022, 5:29 pm

>475 cronshaw:

When it isn't topgrain, it can just be vinyl/PU all the way through and skip the animal parts, tbh... The 'leather" is more about marketing than anything else when it isn't the good stuff.

479strangenews
Mai 3, 2022, 3:34 am

Diese Nachricht wurde vom Autor gelöscht.

480mr.philistine
Mai 3, 2022, 5:29 am

>478 stubedoo: You might find this post by (on behalf of) John W. Nash - compiler of Folio 50 and Folio 60, interesting: https://www.librarything.com/topic/86527#1856839
It is an insider's perspective on the variances between the stated and actual use of materials. When what we say is not what we say!

>479 strangenews: Leather and silk may have been compromised but I sincerely hope this 'vegetarian model' dies a quick and painful death long before it comes anywhere near the Scotch whisky industry!

481cronshaw
Mai 3, 2022, 5:44 am

>480 mr.philistine: Many thanks for the link to that fascinating comment by John Nash. Of all the traditions of Golden Age Folio that New Easton Folio could have continued, they pick that one!

482firsteditions
Bearbeitet: Mai 3, 2022, 10:02 am

>481 cronshaw: In my humble opinion, Folio Society should be grateful to have all of you guys buying from them even if they set prices at $1500. I'm serious book collector and usually go after first editions and rare valuable editions, which FS does not have. This edition, while having nice features is way overpriced. In book collector's world FS is thought of as producing cheap, not valuable books, and something like this limited edition of LOR is nice, but not $1500 nice. This is not a first edition of LOR 11th printing or something to demand $1500 plus. It is like making Hyundai and placing Tesla/Porsche price on it. But, hard core FS book collectors obviously think different, which is really nice for FS. I agree with people who are devoted FS customers and were looking forward to this title only to find out that it was way overpriced for FS books. FS have to make their limited editions that live up to their name, which is well made books on a budget.

483What_What
Bearbeitet: Mai 3, 2022, 10:24 am

>482 firsteditions: I don't mean this in a rude way, but it sounds like as a self-described "serious collector" you'd prefer to spend thousands of dollars on an old $10 paperback or hardcover book. Maybe different people see value in different things?

And what makes people who are fans of the FS not part of your book collector's world too, by the way?

484Cat_of_Ulthar
Mai 3, 2022, 10:24 am

>475 cronshaw:, >478 stubedoo:

According to Folio's response, it is top grain goatskin (so not calfskin as stated on the website).

I am advised that they were seeking a smooth, sleek finish and they chose top grain because it is free of blemishes, giving a smooth, uniform surface.

So that's their take on it: a deliberate production choice to achieve a particular finish.

485mr.philistine
Mai 3, 2022, 10:30 am

>481 cronshaw: At least buyers and concerned members can sleep easy knowing that silkworms/ calves/ goats/ mûmakils/ cats were spared. We must now make haste and awaken the Queen's lexicographers to introduce alternate meanings of animal hide and other exotic animal products.
Although, prefixing exotic raw materials with 'à la' should work nicely and also naturally extend towards the price tag viz. Price: à la £1,000.00

486punkzip
Bearbeitet: Mai 3, 2022, 10:41 am

>483 What_What: The collecting worlds are actually very different.

For a first edition collector, any FS LE (or any limited fine/private/small press book) is completely artificial as another publisher could come along and produce a better or more limited edition. On the other hand, a true first edition will always be a true first edition, and is limited by nature, not by choice. Many first edition collectors would find the artificial limitations prevalent in the fine/private/small press world silly for this reason.

A fine/private/small press collector values the physical qualities of the book, and might see the idea of spending thousands of dollars on a sealed paperback which will never be touched silly.

I am a fine/private/small press collector myself as I read and interact with my books. However, from an investment perspective (and books are not a good investment in general) first editions will always be better, as their scarcity is real rather than manufactured.

487What_What
Bearbeitet: Mai 3, 2022, 10:58 am

>486 punkzip: Thanks, though I didn't need an explanation on the differences, as I'm well aware of them. My point was mainly about the "why do people like different things than I do" vibe of the OP, which was their first comment on the forum as well.

488RRCBS
Mai 3, 2022, 11:16 am

>482 firsteditions: The first thing I wondered is why even be on a FS board in your case?

489firsteditions
Bearbeitet: Mai 3, 2022, 11:28 am

>487 What_What: This is just how it is in book collecting world. You are not trying to be rude but you sure taking it very personal. FS is not the name for prized and valued book collecting. There are too many of them available in circulation among many other factors. Yes, you pay for valuable hard to find editions. Lets why we spend thousands of dollars on books and auction like Christie's. Did you see JPMorgan library in NYC. You should definitely visit for great personal experience of a great library. This is just how it is in book collecting world. FS and EP are not taking seriously by collectors. That said I still purchased several FS editions for my kids to read. FS is good quality books but in no way valuable or collectible to someone like me. Ask Bill Gates why he purchased first edition manuscript for over 45 million dollars. Please watch Booksellers documentary, I believe on Prime. Very educational and provides a lot of information about book collecting and why we pay so much for rare, first edition collectible books.

490assemblyman
Mai 3, 2022, 11:31 am

>488 RRCBS: My first thought also.

491Pellias
Bearbeitet: Mai 3, 2022, 11:37 am

Underneath the fasade it's a troll. I love them. Emma ❤ the collectorworld changed somewhat with Internett. Is anything scarce anymore, as long as you have the money

Btw thanks for booksellers on prime. Now back to subject the lord of the rings, from the folio society.

492coffeewithastraw
Bearbeitet: Mai 3, 2022, 11:46 am

>491 Pellias: *presses imaginary like button for Pellias comment*

I did not originally like the cover of these but it is growing on me. I have the existing SE versions but could maybe be tempted by a future SE of this as others have suggested may be forthcoming. HINT MOLE.

493folio_books
Mai 3, 2022, 12:00 pm

>491 Pellias: Underneath the fasade it's a troll.

Indeed. And we know the first rule of dealing with trolls, don't we?

494mr.philistine
Mai 3, 2022, 12:20 pm

>493 folio_books: And we know the first rule of dealing with trolls, don't we?

*raises hand impatiently* to say KILL THEM.. I mean.. IGNORE THEM
(after sneaking a peek here OT: Dealing with internet trolls)

495Shadekeep
Mai 3, 2022, 12:20 pm

>485 mr.philistine: Or perhaps take a leaf from the food labeling world and say the book "contains natural and artificial ingredients". It's both accurate and useless information, the very soul of advertising.

496Pellias
Mai 3, 2022, 12:23 pm

>493 folio_books: Yes. Shhh .. don`t wake it, it`s sleeping. Be quiet back there .. entering a cave, .. nothing here but hair (hair you said), and some slimey guck, man what big nostrils it has, be on, onto the ring, oh no, it`s sneezing .. (never to be continued on this thread)

497firsteditions
Bearbeitet: Mai 3, 2022, 1:08 pm

Ok calling someone a troll for a different opinion, well what I can I expect if you guys think that FS are the best to get. Probably part of your foreign UK culture to say the least. Laughable.... Oh no, someone is disagreeing with my opinion of FS books lets call these people trolls. If they not like us they are trolls. Proud to be American and respectfully accepting other people's discussions and opinions, unlike trolls from UK in here.

498FitzJames
Mai 3, 2022, 1:44 pm

I think what I find most jarring is the slightly irregular syntax. Might want to peer into those fine editions more often.

Back to it though, if it is top-grain goatskin... I really cannot but help feel that the marketing chappies would have loved to include that. Why would that not be more prominently promulgated? Small detail, but odd.

499cronshaw
Bearbeitet: Mai 3, 2022, 6:07 pm

>484 Cat_of_Ulthar: thanks for that information. I've been learning more than I ever imagined about different grades of leather very lately: my most recent understanding is that top-grain is a second-grade leather, not the same as full-grain which is premium. It seems however that 'top-grain' is understood differently by different people, and is clearly a gift to marketing departments since the name suggests that it includes the uppermost (and most valued for leather) layer of the animal's skin, when it doesn't, to the extent that it requires the blind embossing of a grain-like design to give the impression of being first-grade full grain leather. If I'm incorrect in my understanding, I would ask someone more knowledgeable to please correct me here.

I would have hoped that a limited edition calling itself the 'ultimate' edition of LotR and costing £1,000 (and upwards, depending on where you live) would have used full-grain goatskin in its binding materials. I'm quite certain that a large majority of the FS limited editions I've owned or seen to date were bound in full-grain leathers (excluding Mort as mentioned above). It feels currently as though quality of materials is being sacrificed for gimmicks (novelty presentation boxes, extra prints, ribbons etc.) and tipped-in signatures. I understand that collectors generally prize scarcity and therefore value signatures. As an avid reader, I personally prize quality of materials, durability and design. I would like to think that I'm wrong in perceiving a slide in the quality of materials used by FS in many of its limited and other editions in the past few years, in which case I'd love Folio to address this issue, and perhaps explain more about their choice of leather for various editions in their blog or elsewhere on their website. Otherwise, I hope that Folio will reverse course and aim in future to strive to maintain quality of materials above all else.

500PartTimeBookAddict
Mai 3, 2022, 2:26 pm

>480 mr.philistine: In what way? Are animal skins used in whisky production?

501punkzip
Mai 3, 2022, 2:45 pm

>499 cronshaw: Top grain leather is definitely a second-grade leather compared to full grain. Notably, it is more prone to scratching, which likely accounts for the scuffing reported multiple times.

502Lokhe
Bearbeitet: Mai 3, 2022, 4:47 pm

>499 cronshaw: I think in terms of ”surface”, top-grain is the same as full-grain. It is however thinner since it has been split from the lower, fibrous layers of the hide (the part used to make split leather).

It’s then often sanded down to remove imperfections in the top layer (which further reduces its durability). Perfect grade full-grain leather (with few to no imperfections is probably too expensive for a book like this, and the desired finish for the spine is probably something more even than what lower grade full-grain would provide).

What’s confusing is why they specifically call it ”split”, albeit in Italian, on the limitation page. Unless spacatto refers to the sanding down of the top-grain *shrug*

503A.Godhelm
Bearbeitet: Mai 3, 2022, 3:01 pm

>482 firsteditions: In book collector's world FS is thought of as producing cheap, not valuable books, and something like this limited edition of LOR is nice, but not $1500 nice.
You really end up biting your own tail then, because the secondary market sells these for 2000 or more.

But, hard core FS book collectors obviously think different
And those are not "serious book collectors" by definition because..?
Edit: I got baited.

504mr.philistine
Mai 3, 2022, 3:08 pm

>500 PartTimeBookAddict: While discussing inflated descriptions and 'vegetarian' editions, I suddenly realized the close geographical proximity of the whisky heartland to the FS HQ. I dread the day when similar advertising(?) tactics infect our favourite distilleries to the extent that a 12-year old whisky is not a 12-year old, or a cask-strength 120-proof is not quite what it says on the label and [perish the thought!] a 1-litre bottle is not 1-litre!

505PartTimeBookAddict
Bearbeitet: Mai 3, 2022, 3:28 pm

>504 mr.philistine: Oh. I see. More to do with the marketing. As in how potato chips are often advertised as “gluten free.”

And as far as overhyped marketing is concerned, FS has a long way to go before reaching the dizzy height of liquor and watches!

506folio_books
Mai 3, 2022, 3:47 pm

>503 A.Godhelm: Edit: I got baited.
Yup.

507stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Mai 3, 2022, 4:44 pm

>484 Cat_of_Ulthar:

Thanks for that - did they explain why that isn't what is stated on the limitation page?

Tbh, it doesn't look like the top/full-grain goat I've seen, but I have only a couple of examples to compare with. Also, when there are three different claims, it is hard to know which one to take as truth.

508mr.philistine
Bearbeitet: Mai 3, 2022, 4:51 pm

>505 PartTimeBookAddict: And as far as overhyped marketing is concerned, FS has a long way to go before reaching the dizzy height of liquor and watches!

Is that your 'part time' or expert opinion? In either case, do you consider marketing/ advertising the same as specification printing/ product labelling?

509cwl
Bearbeitet: Mai 3, 2022, 5:30 pm

I can’t help but thinking that this conversation about what materials were actually used in a high-priced LE shouldn’t even be happening. We would expect that the binding materials used would be transparent and honest; they’re rather fundamental to a business specialising in reprints, after all. For standard editions, yes, there has been concern over materials and “leather” in the past, but never for an LE from JWB’s tenure. It shows that the marketing or exec committee approving this didn’t feel that the quality of materials mattered; rather, the bling did. The initial advert (perhaps the video; I don’t recall) explicitly stated calf; I commented on this previously, so it’s especially disheartening to learn that other leathers were used. One can debate the pros and cons of first editions vs reprints that FS specialises in endlessly, but this issue strikes at the heart of truth in advertising and the priorities of FS as a publisher, which as a longtime customer seem indefensible. Arguing that this edition is already worth more than issued doesn’t negate this fundamental problem.

510PartTimeBookAddict
Mai 3, 2022, 5:24 pm

>508 mr.philistine: Well, they are certainly not mutually exclusive. To use the example of the "gluten free" potato chip or pop corn, in those cases it is truthful product labelling but also advertising.

The Scotch Whisky industry has a stellar tradition of puffing up their products. A bottle of Johnnie Walker Blue Limited Edition will set you back $300, and it might very well be "limited." But next year they will have a whole other release of Johnnie Walker Blue Limited Edition. In the end it is still just a bottle of blended whisky produced in that year.

When the FS starts calling every one of their normal print runs a "select edition" then they'll have matched the whisky industry.

511cwl
Bearbeitet: Mai 3, 2022, 6:36 pm

>510 PartTimeBookAddict: So, is FS the equivalent of Blue Label, ie a blended whisky appealing to uneducated tastes and relying on marketing to justify its price, or should it be an aged single malt of distinction? I’ll never forget being in an Edinburgh whisky bar where some tourists were asking the barman if he drank Blue Label. Why do that, he answered, when he can get so much better?
Unnervingly, the whisky analogy might be closer to home than we’d like to admit. ;)

512PartTimeBookAddict
Mai 3, 2022, 5:58 pm

>511 cwl: Haha!

I still think FS gives great value for money. Their typical book being only about twice as expensive as any hardcover advertised in a supermarket. I'm just grateful they don't market to speculators as much as the liquor industry does. Although it would be interesting to see them sell a book housed in a Baccarat decanter!

I view them as the Ledaig of the book world if you want to continue the analogy. You can pay a lot, but there is substance, not just for the bling factor.

513mr.philistine
Mai 3, 2022, 7:28 pm

I apologize in advance for a long post delving deep into the Scotch whisky industry. Sorry teetotalers :)

>510 PartTimeBookAddict: As far as mutual exclusivity is concerned, in case of a discrepancy between marketing blurb and the printed specifications label, the label prevails. The same applies to a promotional brochure vs the colophon page in a book. Perhaps someone from the legal profession could confirm.

>510 PartTimeBookAddict: The Scotch Whisky industry has a stellar tradition of puffing up their products.

I see no problem as long as the product matches the specifications printed on the label, like un-chill filtration, no caramel colouring, age statement, quantity, etc..

>510 PartTimeBookAddict: In the end it is still just a bottle of blended whisky produced in that year.

It is just a bottle that according to Scotch whisky regulations must be:
  1. made in Scotland from only cereals, water and yeast.
  2. matured for a minimum of 3 years in oak casks.
  3. bottled at a minimum strength of 40% abv.
  4. distilled below 94.8% abv so that it retains the flavour and aroma derived from its raw materials.
  5. produced without added flavouring or sweetening.
    (source: https://www.scotch-whisky.org.uk/insights/protecting-scotch-whisky/legal-protect...
Furthermore, any age statement must reflect the age of the youngest whisky that went into the bottle. So it doesn't matter whether the bottle in question is produced that year or any day of the year. It must meet the above criteria or you can take the distillery to court if you can prove otherwise.

While the JW Blue Label is rumoured to contain single malts aged between 28 to 60 years old, the lack of an age statement (NAS) means it is aged for a minimum of 3 years as per Scotch Whisky Association (SWA) regulations. Similarly a JW Black Label 12y or a JW Green Label 15y must be aged to or contain malts aged to a minimum of 12-years and 15-years respectively, and no less.

>510 PartTimeBookAddict: When the FS starts calling every one of their normal print runs a "select edition" then they'll have matched the whisky industry.

Again, advertising/ marketing. What matters is what you print on the label or colophon page.

>511 cwl: ...ie a blended whisky appealing to uneducated tastes..., or should it be an aged single malt of distinction?

If I had to make an uninformed choice bereft of brand recognition, I would go for an age-statement whisky over an NAS every time, regardless of a blend/ single malt/ single-cask bottling. But then, who are we to stop those who make choices based on packaging, bottle shapes, whisky colour or even prices!

Cheers! :)

514Charon49
Bearbeitet: Mai 3, 2022, 8:00 pm

I know it’s very different in it being one volume and quite small in size but century press’s latest edition is in full grain goatskin leather and letterpress for 167 aud which that amount would barely cost the shipping for a LE from Folio these days. I love Folio books but for 2250 aud I’d expect premium materials.

515PartTimeBookAddict
Mai 3, 2022, 8:23 pm

>513 mr.philistine: Yeah. I agree with all you said. I don't think we're arguing any of that. As a vegetarian who drinks Scotch like mother's milk, I was more interested in your post saying that Scotch was somehow not vegetarian and wanted to know more.

I only picked on Johnnie Walker as they do a lot of blingy promotions (e.g. https://uncrate.com/johnnie-walker-black-label-the-directors-cut-whisky/ ), but a lot of other brands do as well. More often than not they are not advertising the intrinsic quality of their products, but how cool they look and how much they cost. It doesn't make them liars. It is still limited as in it will only appear while Blade Runner is in theatres. But they'll take the same juice and put it in a James Bond bottle the next year.
The closest I see FS coming to this kind of promotion is their MARVEL series.

And all that is at the very low end of the price spectrum. If you search any whisky site from "most expensive", it makes the LOTR set look like chump change. The difference is once you use a bottle of booze it is very difficult to resell it!

516mr.philistine
Mai 3, 2022, 9:22 pm

>515 PartTimeBookAddict: My comments in >480 mr.philistine: were in response to inaccurate labelling and suggested 'vegan' (read cut-price) editions - which I hoped would not plague the Scotch whisky industry, jokingly of course! I further clarified the same in >504 mr.philistine: which you decided to interpret as a war cry between FS vs the liquor and watch manufacturing industry :)
You then claim that advertising and labelling are not mutually exclusive. I say they are, should a discrepancy arise between the two. Now you say you agree with all I said!

For me, this was never an argument about how FS, liquor distillers or watchmakers choose to promote or price their product; merely the accuracy with which they label/ declare it.

517Inceptic
Mai 3, 2022, 9:41 pm

Wow, seems like Folio really hit a new low in business ethics. Every discerning collector knew this was a swindle from day one. To learn that they indeed used cheap leather, and obfuscated the fact with highfalutin language is disgraceful.

With this new conmanship at the helm, the SE will be a paperback for $500, lol.

518stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Mai 4, 2022, 3:36 am

>517 Inceptic:

To be fair, CS are saying they are using "top grain goatskin" now, so if it is that, then it isn't total rubbish. The problem for me is that the limitation page appears to say something else (albeit hidden in ambiguous Italian) and the advertising says something totally different. I'd love to see them make a public and definitive statement in writing as to what the heck this thing is made of, as I don't really trust the statement from CS without a bit of backing to it (especially as it doesn't necessarily look like topgrain goatskin in the pictures I have seen).

They should at least update the product page where it states "burgundy calfskin leather" to what they are now claiming it is and note the edit.

519PartTimeBookAddict
Mai 3, 2022, 10:32 pm

>516 mr.philistine: Again, I don't think we're differing that much.

Real quick from my perspective:
-I was wondering why you were saying whisky isn't vegetarian. I misread your comment because no one else had used the phrase "vegetarian model." That's why I asked for clarification.
-Advertising and labelling are not mutually exclusive. Of course, if the advertising claims are lies about what the product IS then that's a problem. The advertising is to puff up the label and put it in the best light. They can BE the same statement.
-If a book is made free of animal products it wouldn't be a lie or mutually exclusive to call it vegetarian. If the ad execs think that would move product then why not?
-My point was FS does not do this hyperbole as much as liquor and watch companies do. So it is not so much as the "vegetarian model" coming to the whisky companies as the other way around. I've seen whisky bottles advertising "from hand picked casks" but have yet to see FS market "hand picked paper."
-You have to admit that both watch and liquor companies way out-advertise and drive up the synthetic importance of their product over any book company. But, if in the next James Bond movie he's reading FS' "The Tudor Age" I will eat my hat!

520cronshaw
Mai 4, 2022, 3:57 am

>502 Lokhe: I don't think that full-grain and top-grain do share the same surface. This image I found on the net explains the different types in relation to the original animal skin quite clearly:



That top-grain is seemingly shorn of the uppermost, toughest layer of grain would suggest why it scuffs more easily as a book binding than full-grain leather.

521Lokhe
Mai 4, 2022, 5:35 am

>520 cronshaw: Indeed, the end result is different, but before the polishing process begins it's the same I suppose.

Regardless, there are as many charts like this as there are google results I feel haha. It's very hard to know what exactly it is a vendor is referring to when marketing their leather products.

Frankly, I think the debate about the outside of these books, however intriguing, is stealing the spotlight a little bit from how absolutely wonderful the insides are :)

522cronshaw
Bearbeitet: Mai 4, 2022, 6:24 am

>521 Lokhe: I agree that it's the insides that Tolkien collectors must be scrambling to get hold of, I expect that Alan Lee's illustrations will have been reproduced to a higher quality here than in any other LotR edition to date, as well as being the fullest suite with new colour plate additions and B&W border illustrations. The Alan Lee images I saw in a recent Harper Collins hardback set looked very poorly reproduced. However, it's concerning to hear that some customers are reported to have received volumes with flaws/damage to the leather binding, not something I'd have expected to hear for an 'ultimate' LotR edition.

523Lokhe
Mai 4, 2022, 6:17 am

>522 cronshaw: No, that's a terrible shame. Nothing to report on my end but I will definitely go over them once again more closely once I unpack them again.

I haven't seen any other editions with Lee's illustrations but these are indeed very nice. Personally I really love the new chapter headers though. They hide a lot of interesting detail :)

524LesMiserables
Mai 4, 2022, 6:48 am

Alas, I have witnessed many times were FS have raised eyebrows.

One such example from way back.

https://www.librarything.com/topic/132026#3211664

Many similar cases over the years.

Same old.

525LesMiserables
Mai 4, 2022, 6:54 am

It's also worth pointing out that Folio doesn't shy away from telling us intricate details of the leathers that they want to, for example Nigerian goatskin.

I always think consumers respond favourably to transparency and plain speaking.

What consumers are repelled by, in general terms, is quite the opposite from the above.

526Cat_of_Ulthar
Mai 4, 2022, 11:58 am

>499 cronshaw:
I am no leather expert either and have been learning along with everyone else. There do seem to be different usages of the term top grain but I think Folio explained clearly enough how they use the term. Perhaps it is lower quality and I’m sure cost will have been part of the equation for Folio but from what I was told there seem to be practical reasons for its use as well.

I guess time will tell as to how well it holds up compared to other LEs.

>507 stubedoo:Did they explain why that isn't what is stated on the limitation page?’

No, but, as I understand it, both phrases refer to split leather so are they differences in kind or just alternative ways of stating something more or less the same?

Nor do I know why the website refers to calfskin. It could simply be a mistake by whoever wrote the copy. Human error is very common.

>518 stubedoo: ‘They should at least update the product page where it states "burgundy calfskin leather" to what they are now claiming it is and note the edit.’

It wouldn’t hurt although it would be rather locking the door after the horse has bolted in this instance.

>521 Lokhe: ‘Frankly, I think the debate about the outside of these books, however intriguing, is stealing the spotlight a little bit from how absolutely wonderful the insides are :)’

Fair point and I would agree that the insides are beautiful. The paper is lovely to the touch and the layout of the text is a pleasure to read. I don’t have the Harper Collins versions with Alan Lee’s illustrations so most of these are new to me and I am really taken with them. I wouldn’t say they’re better than the Eric Fraser illustrations – the style is completely different – but they make an excellent alternative.

I rather like the outsides too.

And I very much like the maps being presented as a separate item so that one doesn’t have to faff about trying to unfold one from the endpapers or keep flicking back to another part of the book to check a detail. They appear to be printed on some sort of cloth (reminds me of my Dad’s old OS maps) which I hope will last better than paper would.

In short, I have really enjoyed immersing myself in these volumes over the past few evenings :-)

527DanielOC
Bearbeitet: Mai 4, 2022, 6:29 pm

489 > “FS is not the name for prized and valued book collecting.”

Not to encourage they of the tortured syntax, but I think FS is primarily for “readers” who enjoy the charm of good literature in nicely bound and illustrated editions, not “serious book collectors” who tend to be hobbyists who purchase random titles they view as assets and don’t necessarily intend to read.

528antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Mai 4, 2022, 12:48 pm

>527 DanielOC: Agreed. I know many book collectors who never read the books they buy. They collect the books as objet d’art & if they ever want to read the actual text they use a cheaper edition/paperback. Much like some vinyl collectors who never play their LP’s, as playing them degrades the value. Real hardcore book collectors are a very ‘different’ breed.

529cronshaw
Bearbeitet: Mai 4, 2022, 1:08 pm

>526 Cat_of_Ulthar: I'm very pleased you're delighted with your copy. You're quite right that human error cannot be helped sometimes, and the substitution of calfskin for goatskin in marketing material isn't the end of the world. I doubt anyone would change their mind because it's wrapped in an envelope of the latter rather than the former. However, for such an expensive limited edition I do believe better attention to detail is warranted. Why Folio couldn't tell everyone that the quarter binding was 'top-grain goatskin' in clear English in their marketing blurb in the first place is beyond me.

Not being a FB person I don't know how serious the flaws reported in sets shown there are, but they certainly don't appear to be deterring Tolkien fans from buying the set on eBay at considerably more than Folio's RRP. At least the unhappy FB-ers can benefit from Folio's still excellent customer service: a part of Folio that still retains Golden Age features :)

>527 DanielOC: Quite!

530rsmac
Mai 4, 2022, 1:17 pm

>527 DanielOC: Reading is definitely the appeal.

My first Folio was a copy of The Twelve Ceasars that I found at Goodwill for $2 and I bought it as a reading copy. The nice texture of the paper, quality of the binding as I held it and the delightful illustrations equaled a better READING experience overall.There are a few I have seen since that are lovely design-wise that I liked as objects, but since I wasn't interested in reading the text, I wouldn't want to buy it.

531Shadekeep
Mai 4, 2022, 1:55 pm

>530 rsmac: Likewise, every book I buy is with the intention to read it. I have culled some from my collection that I never got around to reading, but I can't think of any I bought specifically believing I'd never read it.

532boldface
Mai 4, 2022, 8:12 pm

>520 cronshaw:

It doesn't hurt the marketing people that uninformed punters may well now assume that "top"-grain is the best quality there is. It's similar sleight-of-hand terminology to "art" leather, albeit at least still the real thing. But we are talking about a £1000 LE here. What's next? Split infinitives in the text?

533stubedoo
Mai 4, 2022, 9:42 pm

>532 boldface:

I've been a bit surprised at how uninformed the punters have been actually, given the cost of the item.

534Shadekeep
Mai 4, 2022, 10:26 pm

>532 boldface: Next you'll be telling me that ultraviolet isn't the best, most expensive violet on the market!

I am curious however, are there similar levels of distinction with cloth covers? Or does that only come into play with variant materials like silk, and is cloth in general considered lower end and not really in need of distinctions?

535A.Godhelm
Mai 4, 2022, 10:30 pm

>534 Shadekeep: levels of distinction with cloth covers
I remember checking True Grit for someone to see if it felt like paper, which it did. But it's bound in cloth. This was significant somehow but I can't tell you why.

536Shadekeep
Mai 4, 2022, 10:36 pm

>535 A.Godhelm: That is interesting, thanks! I've detected a lot of variation in cloth covers, from thread weight to the finish of the fixative. A texture like paper would be quite pleasing on the right books, I imagine.

537terebinth
Mai 5, 2022, 3:36 am

>536 Shadekeep:
Not sure I can readily imagine cloth with a texture like paper, but paper textured to resemble cloth is very widely used on trade hardbacks and has been for a few decades. Indeed there's plenty of variation within actual cloth used for binding: and then there's buckram, which from the FS signifies a highly textured, plasticised and harder wearing cloth, but which on books of around a century ago presents a very smooth surface with a clearly visible thread pattern, though again more durable than the general run of bindings.

538cronshaw
Mai 5, 2022, 5:18 am

>532 boldface: Absolutely. I remember how disappointed I felt years ago learning that the 'art' of Folio's art silk bindings was a convenient abbreviation of 'artificial' and whose only connection with the arts was an impressively tangential one with the art of marketing. I've no doubt marketeers must similarly delight in the term 'top-grain' which as you say sounds reassuringly superlative yet which in fact tells us that only the very top layer of the leather you receive is actual 'grain', and not the most durable part of the grain at that.

539LesMiserables
Mai 5, 2022, 6:30 am

I might be wrong, but from memory, these shenanigans even pre-date the omnichannel marketing watershed.

540Shadekeep
Mai 5, 2022, 8:09 am

>537 terebinth: Buckram, yes, thank you! That was the one kicking around in the back of my head. It is quite pleasing when done well.

541CobbsGhost
Mai 5, 2022, 8:58 am

>527 DanielOC:

I was reading the thread to see if this comment was made. I doubt the aforementioned Bill Gates, a poison of a human, has read any book that it collects. Collecting fine reading editions is different than collecting books as pure art or investments. Baseball card collecting has the same integrity as book collecting when it comes to this sphere. Now let us return to the days that Folio produced books in that vein, for the serious reader, and not for the Star Wars junky. Otherwise, I want a set of Dr. Seuss. This Lord of the Rings LE is a good production, put out by folks that want to sell books, in an economy run by what looks to be individuals that are intentionally destroying the markets. I don't think the price is really all that bad considering all the factors involved here. Either buy it or don't... I didn't, because I don't believe it to be worth the price and I was perfectly happy with the Folio version that I gave to my daughter.

542boldface
Mai 5, 2022, 11:58 am

>539 LesMiserables:

Yes, indeed. I have, for example, the 1981 Poems of Catullus, translated by James Michie, "Bound by Clark Constable Ltd using Cabra art leather . . . ."

However, it's actually a beautiful volume, printed in two colours with lovely pale green cloth sides, and the "leather" is pristine. In fact, the whole book looks virtually new after 40 years, so I'm not so much complaining about the materials as about the deception. It's a bit like the shenanigans of politicians - the attempted cover-up insults us even more than the initial misdemeanour.

543Jayked
Mai 5, 2022, 12:49 pm

>539 LesMiserables: The earliest books in "leather" or "silk" don't specify what they're made of: e.g. Donne's Poems of Love, The Semi-attached Couple, Sonnets from the Portuguese, Canterbury Tales, though the prospectus for that year will say. Folio must have found, as buyers did, that fake lasts longer than the real thing cheaply done. The silk on the first Austens was a disaster, while the artificial Salome can still be found in pristine condition. The paper-thin leather on the Donne peeled off like a Scotsman's suntan on the plane home from Spain. Personally I can live without having the wart on a pig's backside preserved on the cover of a book, though I do like to know what I'm paying for.

544abysswalker
Mai 5, 2022, 1:01 pm

>536 Shadekeep: the issue with paper to the spine is that that it doesn't wear as well on hinges as cloth. One reason I hope Folio Society returns to buckram or cloth as the default (there has been some shift over the past few years to using full or quarter paper bindings).

In general, a treated cloth like buckram is more suited to binding than a softer untreated cloth, though I am sure there are exceptions for particular varieties. This is similar to how coated canvases are often used for premium luggage and handbags (pioneered by Louis Vuitton originally, I believe, but used by many brands now, including LV still). Those canvases are much thicker than buckram, but it is basically the same principle.

545Shadekeep
Mai 5, 2022, 1:10 pm

>544 abysswalker: Agreed, and I like a nice cloth binding when it's well done, especially buckram. As you point out, it can be both attractive and durable. Though I'm also one of those people who prefers cloth/fabric covered furniture and car seats over leather, so a grain of salt with my opinion.

546SF-72
Mai 5, 2022, 2:12 pm

>545 Shadekeep:

Same here, I really enjoy a well-made cloth binding and prefer it to leather.

547English-bookseller
Mai 5, 2022, 2:30 pm

Good to see a gathering view that The Folio Society should be using cloth more often.

Just hope the Folio Society senior staff who decide on all the details of their proposed new books hear this feedback and are not ... cloth-eared.

548stubedoo
Mai 5, 2022, 7:22 pm

>547 English-bookseller:

Nothing wrong with cloth if done well. The deluxe 'Maker of Middle-earth' from the Bodelian was just plain black cloth with a single recessed image on the front and straightforward gilt blocking of the titles (for £275 at release with some facsimiles and a nice box). It looked much more resolved as a design than the recent 2022 Folio LoTR (which to me looks like a bit of a dog's breakfast from the outside). Honestly, I'd pay for first-class design and inexpensive but durable materials over "let's throw as much at the wall and see what sticks" design implemented with materials of questionable durability. I might be wrong, but I don't think the future will look back especially fondly at this particular LoTR.

I think it will prove easy to better, and I think the market is strong enough that there will be incentive to better it.

549wcarter
Mai 6, 2022, 12:55 am

There have been quite a few negative comments about the FS LoTR LE, but I have just finished re-reading Fellowship of the Ring for the 10th. (or more) time, and I absolutely love the book.
The binding looks superb and high quality. i cannot differentiate that the leather is inferior in any way, but does not seem as thick as some earlier FS Les from 15 years ago. The inset front picture is gorgeous, the print is a generous size, the chapter headings fascinating, the tipped-in paintings are high quality, the two colour printing adds class and the paper is appropriately heavy and tactile.
I believe it is worth every cent (penny) of its asking price, and still believe the resale price will be astronomic in a year or two.
I am very pleased to have purchased it.

550Jobasha
Mai 6, 2022, 1:15 am

>548 stubedoo:

There are still copies of that edition from the Bodleian Library: https://bodleianshop.co.uk/products/tolkien-maker-of-middle-earth-collectors-edi....

Now at £495. What happened there?

551stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Mai 6, 2022, 1:17 am

>550 Jobasha:

They increased the price by 68% the day after the Folio LE 2022 sold out. It had been £295 for quite a while prior (I paid £295 for my copy)...

552DMulvee
Mai 6, 2022, 1:56 am

I can see that 19 copies of the new LE have sold on eBay with a further 9 currently offered for sale. What has surprised me is that I expected some to purchase the new LE and sell the older LE. There hasn’t been any sign of this. I think the design has split fans, it will be interesting to see which commands a higher price in a few years (if as we expect there is a new Hobbit and Simillarion to join the recent LOTR release)

553stubedoo
Mai 6, 2022, 2:58 am

>552 DMulvee:

I think this will have long-lasting appeal to Folio fans, perhaps more than Tolkien fans (obviously there is quite an overlap there). I think when a better edition comes along (which may not be an Alan Lee edition), Tolkien (rather than Folio) collectors will probably pursue that. I could, of course, be completely wrong. The Alan Lee signature probably doesn't mean much to Tolkien fans as it is so common (I literally have at least 10 -- we often joke that some editions are harder to find unsigned!).

554hoyasaxa
Bearbeitet: Mai 6, 2022, 5:46 am

>549 wcarter: It is a pleasure to read. I believe you’ll find many of the negative comments come from the same posters repeating themselves, including at least one frequent Tolkien forum poster who has started posting here to complain about one set in at least two places.

555Dr.Fiddy
Mai 6, 2022, 6:38 am

556What_What
Bearbeitet: Mai 6, 2022, 10:29 am

>554 hoyasaxa: Agree especially with your last point. Fascinating that it isn’t sufficient to complain on Tolkien boards, but they feel compelled to come here and proselytize too.

I think a large part of the negative feedback, at least on Facebook, is simply because it is so expensive it is out of reach of many people, while it is simultaneously wanted by many. Certain LEs simply don’t appeal to everyone, such as Dante, Ulysses, even Dune, and Aurora Australis.

But with something like Tolkien, and the massive fan base it has, a vocal minority of FS fans seem to be personally offended it wasn’t offered at a price more within their means.

557rsmac
Mai 6, 2022, 10:49 am

>556 What_What: Do you not feel any of the criticisms were legitimate?

For me, I'm not a Tolkein fan and was never going to buy it but I do like a nice book design and did not like the design at all.

I was thinking why the look was so off-putting and looked on my bookshelf and realized that I had picked up a cheap Reader's Digest hardcover of HG Wells' War of the Worlds/Time Machine as a reading copy at a thrift store for a dollar that had the same burgundy spine with dark blue cover, but with gold accents instead of silver. For a dollar investment who cares, but for $1700 shipped I would want Folio not to use a similar color scheme to Reader's Digest circa 1998. I expect more from Folio.

558HugoDumas
Mai 6, 2022, 10:57 am

>552 DMulvee: I suspect it is simply people taking a quick handsome profit since these are all unopened sets. I wonder though given the QC issues posted here and on FB, what are the return-for-refund rights of purchasers if they open this coveted set and find it is flawed.

559Cat_of_Ulthar
Mai 6, 2022, 11:04 am

>557 rsmac:

I'm not sure Folio's choice of colours was inspired by vintage Reader's Digest titles: see >351 Pellias:, >352 Pellias: above.

There might just be some method to their madness ;-)

560Shadekeep
Mai 6, 2022, 12:38 pm

>557 rsmac: I'm with you in that the design didn't really grab me, or feel particularly LoTR (matching Aragorn's outfit notwithstanding). I feel though that this edition is really designed to showcase the artwork first and foremost. It sounds like on that front it generally succeeded. Still not the edition for me, as a reader, but it does seem to fill a niche.

561Dropkickerbob
Mai 6, 2022, 1:59 pm

Personally not a fan of the version for similar reasons mentioned by others.

But I definitely think it will be a memorable LOTR release for years to come, it has a unique design compared to other LOTR releases. Congrats on those that have picked it up. It is nice to hear at least some folk are enjoying their copies.

>560 Shadekeep: I agree on your comment that this edition is primarily a showcase for the artwork. Problem for me, LOTR is one of those books I don't need/want lots of illustrations. 53 illustrations seems excessive to me...I love illustrations in a book, part of the reason I was attracted to Folio in the first place, but I still want to use my imagination, especially for LOTR. I can't help but wonder how much the illustrations inflated the price on this one.

562Shadekeep
Mai 6, 2022, 6:42 pm

>561 Dropkickerbob: I agree with you about the artwork, and other members here have said similar. While the art is beautiful, I personally prefer simpler art that shades more towards evocative than representative. Something in an illuminated manuscript style, say. I know some folks did not care for the art in the FS edition of Sir Gawain and The Green Knight, but I like it and that's the sort of art I would prefer in LoTR. None of this is to take away from the beauty of the art in this edition, nor dismiss those who like it. It just isn't what I look for in these books, and thus the edition wasn't a particular draw for me.

563EdmundRodriguez
Mai 7, 2022, 12:11 pm

Just in case it is of interest, a page comparison alongside the standard FS edition:


It really is delightful to read, and makes going back to the standard edition very difficult (feels so small and cramped by comparison).

No photo, but the contrast with the recent HarperCollins deluxe edition (also quarter-bound in leather) was even more stark, as you can see through the paper (given it is a single volume edition I am not sure it is really a fair comparison).

564cronshaw
Mai 7, 2022, 12:18 pm

>563 EdmundRodriguez: thanks for that. The typesetting in the new LE does look far smarter and clearer. The burgundy chapter title and page numbering are an elegant touch too. What do you think of the quarter leather binding?

565EdmundRodriguez
Mai 7, 2022, 12:28 pm

>564 cronshaw:

I think the leather binding could have been better. I am not an expert, but I could believe that it is not the best quality leather available. When I first saw the design online I was pretty lukewarm on it, but it has grown on me.

That said, I am happy with it, and (personally) think it looks pretty good on the shelf.

566cronshaw
Bearbeitet: Mai 7, 2022, 12:41 pm

>565 EdmundRodriguez: Thanks for taking the trouble to take and share these photos, they're a particularly useful addition to the limited photos on the FS website. The blind embossing doesn't seem especially deep, but perhaps that's because top grain leather won't be as thick as the full grain leathers we're used to on many other LEs. I still find the spine design very uninspired. However, it seems this edition is really a vehicle for Alan Lee's art, and the internal design, paper quality and type-setting all appear to be very good. Indeed, those who've received the set here on FSD all seem highly happy with their purchase which is reassuring to know.

567nightdances
Mai 7, 2022, 1:06 pm

On the Facebook group, a few people who received replacements have reported that the replacements also had defects. :(

568mr.philistine
Mai 7, 2022, 3:05 pm

>565 EdmundRodriguez: I'm sorry for taking the liberty, but someone had to do it! I hastened the fall of the 'all seeing eye' with slight loss of definition to the tower of Barad-dûr.

>566 cronshaw: I still find the spine design very uninspired.

I tried to outline the blind embossing of Barad-dûr but it looked even more out of place than the 'eye of Sauron' suspended in mid-air, but what do you think? :)

569Shadekeep
Mai 7, 2022, 3:08 pm

>568 mr.philistine: I find your design more appealing, honestly. I know why they did what they did, but the aligned sigils are more pleasing.

570stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Mai 7, 2022, 7:57 pm

>554 hoyasaxa:

Are you denying the problems exist? Also, from what I understand this isn't just *one* set that has QC problems (I'm not on FaceBook, but I knew of at least 4 defective sets from a small number of people that I know that bought it). It is great that people like the set for what it is, but let's not pretend there aren't some issues here that people should be very aware of to ensure they inspect closely and get a replacement if needed. Design elements are, of course, subjective. Seems to be as many who love the design as don't.

Also, I'm fairly sure most Tolkien collecting forum members are not Folio forum members and vice versa. Why would they be?

Like any set, this has good and bad points and will suit some buyers and not others :shrug: At the price point, though, the QC (at a minimum) isn't what it should be. It isn't HarperCollins recent levels of bad, but that's comparing £100 with £1000.

>568 mr.philistine:

I think the spine looks better in your mockup, though I get why it was done the way it was done.

571whytewolf1
Mai 7, 2022, 9:06 pm

Interestingly, I can't think of any of the sets that were actually "defective." From my best recollection, they appear to have all been damaged through careless handling and/or storage *before* they were actually shipped.

572stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Mai 9, 2022, 2:23 am

>571 whytewolf1:

All four of I know of were definitely defective, not shipping/storage flaws. Some pictures (I grabbed three, I also have a fourth, but you get the picture) in the link below. Some of the books also had rubbing, probably caused by poor separation of the books during shipping, but the splitting at the top right or left is the main problem I have seen reported (no idea if this is also what has been reported on FaceBook). Seems to primarily affect The Two Towers, though I have heard mention of it happening on RotK also.

It is a real problem, despite some people appearing to want to suggest (from reading some of the posts here) it is Folio bashing by people who can't afford the books. Sigh.

573ubiquitousuk
Bearbeitet: Mai 8, 2022, 2:42 am

>565 EdmundRodriguez: What is the edition of Hamlet you have?

574EdmundRodriguez
Mai 8, 2022, 3:08 am

>573 ubiquitousuk: the 1978 Alberto Tallone (my cheap copy from ebay came without any protection so I had a slipcase made for it).

575ubiquitousuk
Mai 8, 2022, 3:58 am

>545 Shadekeep:, ah that explains it. The Tallone Editore Hamlet looks superb. I'm satisfied with my Letterpress Shakespeare copy, but I might have the break my usual rule of at most one edition of any book.

576DMulvee
Mai 8, 2022, 5:09 am

>563 EdmundRodriguez: Thank you for this! The inside does look lovely!

577EdmundRodriguez
Mai 8, 2022, 5:19 am

>568 mr.philistine: I think that probably does look easier on the eye. The spine design is definitely not perfect for me (but good enough for me to be happy overall). I am likely very forgiving of this edition because I'm just thankful to finally have an impressive edition to read of one of my favourite books.
As far as I understand it, the old LE is just a rebind of the standard edition (and it's not the way I'd really want it bound regardless), and none of the HC editions are anything special on the inside.
Whilst I read the LOTR for the first time just before the films came out, they definitely impacted the way I imagine middle earth. Therefore the artwork in this edition works perfectly for me.
Whilst in practice I would never do it, I am also more able to overlook binding issues (design and quality) as I feel I always have the option of having it custom bound.
That said, I hope folio learn some lessons from this (on the binding) if they follow up with The Hobbit.

578whytewolf1
Mai 8, 2022, 1:44 pm

>572 stubedoo: I had not seen that, and I can see it's a small split. Nevertheless, the vast majority of complaints are due to damage. It's possible I may have missed something, but every one I can recall seeing on Facebook has been damaged (rubbing to boards, corner or spine bumps, leather abrasions, bent pages or plates, etc.).

579Willoyd
Mai 8, 2022, 2:52 pm

>563 EdmundRodriguez:
Each to their own. To me the LE is way too big to enjoy actually reading.

580Ralf_K
Mai 8, 2022, 2:55 pm

A small question for those who purchased a set; did you find there were some scuffs on the silver painted top? Mine had a few, and don't know if this is normal for LE's or Folio books in general. I just ask as this was quite an expensive set.

581stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Mai 8, 2022, 4:16 pm

>578 whytewolf1:

All the copies I am aware of, the main issue is the splitting. Rubs present as well on some of those copies, but the core issue is definitely the split. Because the splits bulge out, it is quite noticeable on the shelf. Obviously there is also the question of whether it will propagate or whether other copies will split over time. Anybody's guess on that. Hopefully that's as bad as it gets, but I'd be a little nervous, given the price (with anything like this, price plays a huge part in the context of what a buyer can probably ignore).

582stubedoo
Mai 8, 2022, 4:11 pm

>580 Ralf_K:

I've not heard anyone mention it.

583podaniel
Mai 9, 2022, 2:57 pm

>580 Ralf_K:

My set is fine--no scuffs.

584cronshaw
Mai 9, 2022, 3:08 pm

>572 stubedoo: That's quite startling. It looks as if, in those instances, that the leather wasn't robust enough to cope with the pressure exerted by the edges of the embossing tool. There really ought to be better quality control than that for a £1000 limited edition. By the looks of it, a few re-sellers may find themselves burdened with refunds plus compulsory return shipping costs, if they didn't bother checking their sets for such defects before shipping them.

585stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Mai 9, 2022, 7:10 pm

>584 cronshaw:

Yeah. I just can't imagine that it isn't a common problem. I currently know of 5 copies with the splitting from TCG posters and 4 are regular -- and there are only a handful of regular posters. If it was all posts from randoms, I could easily believe that there were a tiny number of affected copies and all those had been identified and become the subject of posts, but the poster demographic doesn't support that.

I wouldn't want to buy this title on the used market at this point, as it isn't clear whether those copies split at the weakened blind-stamped point before they were packaged or after. If they are splitting after (maybe as the humidity drops for some copies, depending on where they live / shipping conditions), then there could be copies "going bad" for a while. Better to have that dealt with by Folio as the initial purchaser. Waiting a few months to buy used would be wise, I reckon -- and don't buy based on generic photos; Insist on photos of the actual copy being purchased.

586stubedoo
Mai 11, 2022, 4:15 pm

The rightmost copy of TT in the pic I posted has now been replaced by Folio apparently. No issues with the replacement.

587HugoDumas
Mai 13, 2022, 9:50 am

I have never seen a coveted limited edition where the seller took a pen and destroyed evidence of the limitation number of the edition.

Here is a new up-for-bidding Tolkien LOTR where this was done.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144549455237?

588Caput_Lupinum
Mai 13, 2022, 9:56 am

>587 HugoDumas: Why on earth would someone do that?! Could the book be an 'error'/otherwise unsellable copy that the FS discarded?

589SF-72
Mai 13, 2022, 10:35 am

>588 Caput_Lupinum:

That's the most likely explanation.

590What_What
Mai 13, 2022, 10:43 am

>588 Caput_Lupinum: That could be the only explanation I guess, but how did they end up with a perfect set to sell? FS would have replaced the individual books if there were issues, not all three.

Unless all 3 had blemishes, they complained and were asked to deface the limitation, and got 3 brand new copies, and are selling the brand new ones.

591HugoDumas
Mai 13, 2022, 11:31 am

>590 What_What: or it’s hot and the seller did not want it traceable. I contacted this seller for an explanation.

592Cat_of_Ulthar
Mai 13, 2022, 11:52 am

>587 HugoDumas: etc

They are only showing one volume blacked out. Have they muitilated two others to support that?

593cronshaw
Mai 13, 2022, 1:22 pm

Was this deletion not simply done digitally for listing purposes, because the seller for some peculiar reason doesn’t want others (or FS) to know what the actual number is? Most odd in any case.

594cronshaw
Mai 13, 2022, 1:25 pm

>568 mr.philistine: sorry I completely missed this earlier. Yes yours looks smarter, or less messy! But then from the photo you cannot make out the blind stamped design either which lends some reason to Folio’s actual design.

595What_What
Mai 13, 2022, 1:26 pm

>592 Cat_of_Ulthar: The limitation is only on the first volume.

>593 cronshaw: That was my first thought as well, but on closer review it’s clear they took a pen to it. The description also indicates it’s not been done digitally.

596Cat_of_Ulthar
Mai 13, 2022, 1:32 pm

>595 What_What:

>592 Cat_of_Ulthar: Cat_of_Ulthar: The limitation is only on the first volume.

True, ignore my feeble-minded ramblings!

597HugoDumas
Mai 13, 2022, 1:48 pm

I contacted the seller who indicated he actually penned out the limitation number because there was a mistake in the number. I do not know what he means. I consider this highly suspicious activity.

598ubiquitousuk
Mai 13, 2022, 1:57 pm

One possibility is that the seller received a copy with minor damage and asked for a replacement. Folio said (as I gather they sometimes do) that they would send a replacement if he could provide evidence that the limitation page has been destroyed. Now happy with his mint replacement, the seller is trying to sell on the superficially damaged copy.

599HugoDumas
Mai 13, 2022, 3:40 pm

>598 ubiquitousuk: I doubt it. The seller refuses to tell me why they penned out the limitation number. Thus I can only assume that this is probably a stolen copy and the seller wishes to obfuscate its history. I have reported this to Folio Society and eBay.

600ultrarightist
Mai 13, 2022, 4:07 pm

>599 HugoDumas: I think you did the right thing. That is highly suspicious activity.

601cronshaw
Mai 13, 2022, 4:36 pm

>595 What_What: thanks, I hadn't seen that. Very weird.

>598 ubiquitousuk: I agree theft is a possible reason. He may also have sent Folio photos from a separate, damaged set belonging to someone else and claimed it was actually damage to his, so he could claim a replacement for himself, hence his need to hide the number of his (actually good) copy from scrutiny by Folio themselves on-line. It's highly suspicious that the seller is refusing to state why he did it.

>599 HugoDumas: well done for reporting it.

602SyllicSpell
Mai 13, 2022, 6:30 pm

Curious. The same seller recently sold an LE Haunting of Hill House with the limitation number blacked out, apparently because the bookplate is upside-down.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Haunting-Of-Hill-House-Shirley-Jackson-Folio-Societ...

603cronshaw
Mai 13, 2022, 6:44 pm

In that case, perhaps the seller somehow has access to faulty copies of different LEs direct from Folio (or someone who works at Folio)?

604cronshaw
Mai 13, 2022, 6:46 pm

If only we had a sleuth like Sherlock Holmes or Coleen Rooney to get to the bottom of the mystery.

605assemblyman
Mai 13, 2022, 6:48 pm

>604 cronshaw: I think a sting operation is in order :)

606treereader
Mai 14, 2022, 12:51 am

This is a job for Super Mole.

Mole: go hunt down the LE scammer!

607stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Mai 14, 2022, 2:35 am

>601 cronshaw:

That was my first instinct - that this could be a set that was claimed as being defective, but actually was not. Folio would potentially have replaced the set with one of the same number.

608SF-72
Mai 14, 2022, 5:09 am

I can't speak for Lord of the Rings, but when I received a defective Haunting of Hill House, I got a replacement with the same number and was asked to return the defective one. (They paid for shipping, so no problem except for some customs hassle with the replacement.) If someone has access to such copies and tries to erase the evidence, so to say, that would certainly make sense in this scenario. I have the impression that FS have stopped just letting people keep damaged copies, which is completely understandable considering how some people abuse that. And I frankly prefer getting one with the same number I originally got. When I received a damage Mort with a very low number (I bought within minutes of it going live) I ended up with another in the high 400s instead since it needed to be replaced.

609RRCBS
Mai 16, 2022, 9:29 am

>599 HugoDumas: the seller just told me he’s selling the fault free replacement (minus blacked out limitation number) he got from FS and keeping the original.

610English-bookseller
Mai 16, 2022, 9:50 am

>609 RRCBS: Seems to me that if the buyer is content to keep and own the original copy, then on what grounds are they entitled to either keep or sell the replacement copy sent by The Folio Society to them? I am not saying they have done anything illegal or wicked - it just seems an odd situation - albeit unplanned of course for this person

But if the Folio Society are content to allow purchasers to keep a slightly imperfect copy and to sell the other, then there is the possibility they might find some new rather cheeky customers who just want to get two valuable Limited Edition copies from the Society for the price of one.

I recommend to the Society that they need to work out how both to keep genuine customers very happy with their purchases and to protect against the risk of deliberate attempts to exploit their goodwill. Asking customers to return damaged copies would seem to be an obvious solution.

611RRCBS
Mai 16, 2022, 10:12 am

>610 English-bookseller: I agree. I wouldn’t buy anything to support a seller engaged in that kind of practice. Surprised they wouldn’t ask for damaged copies back, but then shipping is so expensive these days.

612PeterFitzGerald
Mai 16, 2022, 10:13 am

>610 English-bookseller: It depends on the communications the seller had with FS. If he was open about the fact that he planned to sell on the replacement and FS sent him one anyway, then all well and good (if rather surprising). If he pretended that he was unwilling to accept the copy he was originally sent, and so needed one to replace it (the key word here is 'replace' - it means taking the place of the original), but actually had no intention of doing so and was just using the existence of a minor flaw to cheat an additional copy out of FS, then it's difficult to see how that's not fraud.

But the story doesn't ring true to me. If you did do that, why would you black out the limitation number on the replacement copy, rather than the original? Keeping the original would imply you want to sell the more pristine of the two copies you have (presumably to maximise profits), so why damage the pristine copy by blacking out the number, while keeping the number on the damaged copy? Something just isn't right with that.

613Shadekeep
Mai 16, 2022, 10:24 am

>612 PeterFitzGerald: I'm with you on this. I rather cynically suspect that the original buyer is keeping a perfectly fine numbered edition and selling a now-unnumbered replacement, thereby underwriting their own costs for the one they kept and possibly even making a profit. Plus the second buyer is now lumbered with a less valuable edition. Seems pretty sleazy all around, if that's what is happening.

614mr.philistine
Mai 16, 2022, 10:47 am

>610 English-bookseller: ...some new rather cheeky customers who just want to get two valuable Limited Edition copies from the Society for the price of one.

At the risk of encouraging unscrupulous buyers/ collectors, it appears such individuals are trying to recover the cost of the initial purchase by getting a free replacement copy. They can then choose to sell both or one at a much higher price than the original purchase if they read the market demand correctly. The only way the Society can counter such moves is by insisting on a return prior issue of a replacement/ repair.

615whytewolf1
Mai 16, 2022, 10:50 am

>613 Shadekeep: Yup. Even if I didn't already own the edition, I wouldn't touch an auction like that with a 10-ft pole. I hope this skeezy seller finds out that he can only sell this copy at a very steep discount.

616Jayked
Mai 16, 2022, 11:12 am

At one time Folio asked members to cut out and return the title page of a defective copy. That prevented blatant fraud, and kept the member's costs to a minimum.

617bacchus.
Mai 16, 2022, 11:14 am

My guess is this seller is actively stalking LT forums - first edition of HP Gulliver's Travels in inventory being the hint. Best thing to do is to inform others here to avoid seller "smyvita" altogether for the many valid reasons stated above.

618cronshaw
Mai 16, 2022, 11:38 am

>609 RRCBS: It makes no sense whatsoever to me to erase the number of a perfect 'replacement' copy, thereby causing a far greater loss of value than would be caused by erasing the limitation number of the faulty copy.

I'm also shocked that Folio would replace these copies without first wanting clear evidence of the original faulty set having for example its limitation page torn out as a minimum if FS don't want the hassle of paying for their return.

619Shadekeep
Bearbeitet: Mai 16, 2022, 11:43 am

>616 Jayked: >618 cronshaw: Agreed, mailing back the title and/or limitation page should be sufficient, and prevents reselling the "lost" copy except as an incomplete edition. It's surprising they didn't have such a requirement on a limited and relatively costly edition like this, but I suspect they may do so in future.

620ubiquitousuk
Mai 16, 2022, 2:24 pm

>609 RRCBS: without taking an ethical stance, I guess it isn't inconceivable that the seller had a legitimate damaged copy, asked for the replacement they were entitled to, and, observing the secondary prices, decided they'd rather sell the replacement and keep the damaged one.

But still, it seems like this situation is ripe for exploitation. People can, with virtual impunity, order a copy of an expensive LE, find it to be damaged (easily achieved...) and get a free replacement. After flipping one of the copies, the result is a free book plus maybe a profit. I can't believe that it isn't worth Folio's time to fix this when we are talking about £1k books and the goodwill of regular buyers of said books.

621mr.philistine
Bearbeitet: Mai 16, 2022, 3:09 pm

>615 whytewolf1: I wouldn't touch an auction like that with a 10-ft pole.

Someone has placed the opening bid of £1,250 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144549455237).

>617 bacchus.: ..avoid seller "smyvita" altogether..

Now renamed "jamroundette", but still linked to the above page! :)

>616 Jayked: >618 cronshaw: >619 Shadekeep: Tearing out or mailing back the limitation page still does not address the fate of a high value defective book/set. I wonder how much a prized LE, say the 2009 Moby Dick bound in full black smooth grain leather (reviewed here: https://www.librarything.com/topic/335111) with the solander box and companion volume minus the limitation page would fetch on the secondary market.
I am sure FS have a volume based contract/ account with premium mail couriers (DHL, FedEx etc.) which would allow for pickup at a reasonable cost. Upon inspection a replacement could be dispatched to the buyer, leaving the defective copy to be repaired/ rebound/ dismantled/ destroyed as deemed appropriate by FS. Perhaps the salvaged copy could one day be offered for sale without any limitation! as a stated refurbished copy in place of the limitation number.
The cost of this extra carriage could be shared between FS and all its partners involved in the failed QC.

622SF-72
Bearbeitet: Mai 16, 2022, 2:47 pm

I'm really surprised they didn't require a return here. With Haunted Hill I did have to return it, but there was no system for it in place. I had to advance the cost, then got a refund. Fine with me.

623Shadekeep
Bearbeitet: Mai 16, 2022, 2:59 pm

>621 mr.philistine: I suppose a more destructive partial return could be devised, such as being required to mail back the covers (though I wince at slicing up a book that way). But yes, a full return is likely optimal, since elements of the books could in theory be recouped into non-limited editions for resale. And a full return removes the chance of the buyer reselling it themself.

624bacchus.
Mai 16, 2022, 3:04 pm

>621 mr.philistine: Now renamed "jamroundette", but still linked to the above page! :)

Good catch! Pretty much verifies he's following this thread closely. Ebay allows username change once every 30 days so he needs to stick to this for a while. He can create another account of course but he'll lose the feedback.

625stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Mai 16, 2022, 4:12 pm

If I was FS, I would - at a minimum - require any photographs of damage to include the original shipping materials with address in the photo to allow a return without the books being shipped back first. This stops unscrupulous buyers getting pictures of damaged books off the internet and pretending to Folio that it is their copy that is damaged.

Then require a photo showing the books destruction before sending the replacement. I had a defective product from Fiskars that required that. They needed a photo showing the original snapped in half with the order return number included on a piece of paper shown in the photo.

If something walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is probably a duck. I don't for one minute believe this sellers story about why they have blacked out the number on a perfect copy, because it makes no sense at all (unless there was no replacement and the seller actually got a refund, of course...).

626sdawson
Mai 16, 2022, 4:27 pm

In the old days, when book sellers didn't sell all of their copies, they were rquired to rip off the cover (and return them I think) to get credit. Hence the verbage in the paperbacks that

"Sale of this book without a front cover may be unauthorized. If this book is coverless, it may have been reported to the publisher as "unsold or destroyed" and neither the author nor the publisher may have received payment for it"

Some modfication of this may be in order for these expensive editions. Perhaps in addition to the limitation page, the first 10 pages of the book and the illustrations could be returned to FS in order to get the replacement. Something that could be sent to FS inexpensively.

627SF-72
Mai 16, 2022, 4:52 pm

Back when they required people to damage the book, I basically begged them to please accept a return instead. I hate the idea of tearing up a book like that and FS do have options of selling defective copies as is themselves. And yes, I understand that there are cheats around these days, but there are better solutions, like a return. What's also important is better quality control. The limited edition I received had damage that someone must have seen during production, so it should have been removed from circulation before even being sent out.

628RRCBS
Mai 16, 2022, 4:59 pm

Ideally, the buyer could black out the limitation number and donate the book(s) to a charity for resale. It is really sad and wasteful to think of books being destroyed.

629AnnieMod
Bearbeitet: Mai 16, 2022, 5:09 pm

>627 SF-72: And what were they supposed to do with a return if they were not set to deal with it? They cannot resell it (unless minimally damaged and "as is" but then it can get much worse while getting back to them). They cannot donate it (or not as easily as an individual can). And they will need to pay for the postage (and pay for the warehouse to house it). So it was really down to who destroys the book, not to "will this book be destroyed?"... It is a catch-22 anyway you look at it.

The whole thing is just a pain. People do rationalize selling defective copies as "well, they let me keep it so why not get some money back" which easily turns into a "if I manage to get them to send me a new copy, I can sell this one and have the book for free" when one's scruples allow it. I find both ways of thinking equally problematic but everyone makes their own choices.

The best Folio can do is to demand a return of every book which they send a replacement for but... how long before them getting back worthless books instead of the ones they expect and an uptick in "books not received"? And how much should they increase the prices to make sure that all that return postage does not bankrupt them. As much as I hate it, FS is simply not suited for these days -- the more popular they get, the worse it gets (the small fine presses simply do not have the visibility to have that problem too often). And them offloading their warehousing may have been a good idea financially but with their policies, they have a real problem on their hands with uninspected books being shipped.

Oh well. Progress is not always for the better... :)

630stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Mai 16, 2022, 5:21 pm

>628 RRCBS:

It is a waste, but also having to produce extra books because of fraud is also a waste. Requiring the first few pages to be torn out would still leave the book usable, but would make it unsaleable. Seems like a happy medium.

631Jayked
Mai 16, 2022, 6:37 pm

>621 mr.philistine: I advocated removing the title page, not the limitation page, whose loss wouldn't upset some buyers.

632mr.philistine
Mai 17, 2022, 12:25 am

>629 AnnieMod: And what were they supposed to do with a return if they were not set to deal with it?

FS is in the bookbinding or upmarket book production business, depending on how you view their products. Of course, they are equipped to deal with it! Furthermore, we are discussing high value LEs and not standard titles. If you have a problem with your Samsung TV, do you wonder if the manufacturer/ authorized servicing outlet is 'not set to deal with it'?

>629 AnnieMod: I find both ways of thinking equally problematic but everyone makes their own choices.

Allowing an ever-widening customer base to make their own choices without any safeguards might be the reason why we find FS (and ourselves!) here.

>629 AnnieMod: ...return postage does not bankrupt them.

FS is located in the UK, USA, Canada and Australia - whether these are just sales offices or fully staffed inspection/ production facilities (except the UK), I do not know. In case of the latter, return pickups could be routed to the nearest location for assessment and minor repair work. All faulty items to be collected for beaming back to the mothership when a convenient milestone (weight/ cost) has been reached.

>630 stubedoo: Requiring the first few pages to be torn out would still leave the book usable, but would make it unsaleable.

Depends on how many pages. Many buyers, would be happy to get a taste of an exclusive title albeit missing the first few flyleaves and perhaps the title/ limitation page at a fraction of the original price.

633AnnieMod
Bearbeitet: Mai 17, 2022, 12:45 am

>632 mr.philistine: If they believed that they can repair and resell, they would have asked for it back. If they did not, it was probably because they were not set to deal with it. FS does not do their bindings themselves - and if the original bindery was not contracted to fix/rescue a book, they can only throw the return away or get someone else to help - and that can get expensive quickly. And sometimes it is a deliberate decision - because the return postage and the price of fixing it will exceed the profits so throwing more money at it is not worth it. Not to mention that by the time it comes back, it may be in a lot worse shape than when it left the customer who returns it.

I don’t buy limited edition TVs and the supply chain of Samsung is very well situated and organized to deal with returns and repairs on their mass produced ones - they have enough business and the numbers to afford it (and include it in the price). If you do, you may share your stories of how they handle these ;)

You don’t want a minimum wage employee “doing a minimal repair” on a Limited edition and then having it sold to you as new, do you? There are no bookbinder specialists just sitting in an office waiting for books to come back for minimal repairs. Maybe in London but I doubt it to be the case even there. :) And even if they have a sales office in different places, books had been dispatched from London to everywhere in years so there are no warehouses in the States at least. Should they put the returned boxes under someone’s desk maybe until they are ready to ship them back? Housing books is an expensive part of the supply chain.

We are not talking about one of the small fine presses here - Folio is a bit too big for some things these days (and too small for others). They know their business model the best and if they had determined that they cannot accept returns, there is a good reason for it. :)

634mr.philistine
Mai 17, 2022, 1:13 am

>633 AnnieMod: If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, oh, what a Christmas we'd have. - Don Meredith (?)
Unless FS make available their SOP, all is speculation. Maybe mole might intervene at some point.

635stubedoo
Mai 17, 2022, 1:20 am

>632 mr.philistine:

"Depends on how many pages. Many buyers, would be happy to get a taste of an exclusive title albeit missing the first few flyleaves and perhaps the title/ limitation page at a fraction of the original price."

That's the thing, though, only a fraction. The incentive to commit fraud is reduced dramatically when the value of the item is reduced dramatically.

636SF-72
Mai 17, 2022, 3:01 am

In the past, when they told people to tear leaves out of limited editions instead of returning them, those damaged copies still ended up on ebay. Some people don't mind buying books without title page, limitation page and some illustrations, which was required. FS do have sales in London (see another thread for that), in the past it was in the member's room. And in some cases, it is possible to refurbish a book. An depending on where you ship damaged books from, the price for that is a small percentage of the book's cost. But in the end, this isn't our decision and they have all the information we don't have. I'm really surprised they don't seem to have required a return for the Tolkien-set, when they did for Haunting of Hill House. It's probably connected to the higher shipping fee since it seems to have been a very large package. But I also feel that this is rather a large amount of frustration over one (pretty obvious) cheat. Yes, their number is rising, but I think it would be worse if we couldn't rely on good customer service by FS when it comes to defective copies. Still, I'd again mention that better quality control would also help a lot, in some cases also better packaging. I received two limited editions damaged during transport due to bad packaging and DHL being incredibly rough with packages. (DPD did a lot better, at least for my area.)

637strangenews
Mai 17, 2022, 3:40 am

Diese Nachricht wurde vom Autor gelöscht.

638mr.philistine
Mai 17, 2022, 3:45 am

Since the most hotly debated design issues on this thread are the spine and use of materials, here are the relevant photos - incidentally the clearest among all eBay listings (both sold and live), from none other than "smyvita" aka "jamroundette" first mentioned in >617 bacchus.: :)



639martinsbob71
Mai 17, 2022, 6:54 am

>2 NLNils: I completely agree

640Jayked
Mai 17, 2022, 11:10 am

>632 mr.philistine:
Folio hasn't had a Canadian office for some time. When they did, back in the nineties, it was staffed by a Sole Representative whose most-used piece of equipment was the answering machine. My impression was that the SR inhabited a howff or bothy within cycling distance of Pearson International Airport. Since it was always possible to deal directly with the London office, most members did. One benefit was that if you complained of a faulty volume you were likely to receive two replacements, one from each office, one of which you had to return -- and that was an adventure. The lasting effect of having had a Canadian subsidiary is that Folio is now stuck with being a government tax collector.

641HugoDumas
Mai 17, 2022, 11:12 am

Here is Folio Society response to my inquiry on this listing.

“Thank you for your email, that's a very strange listing.

While I think it's quite unlikely that the books are stolen property, it certainly looks as though the seller is trying to hide something. With so few photos of the set I would very much flag that one as 'buyer beware'.

(follow up response)…further to my earlier email (and because I've received a few emails about this), I should perhaps add that Folio would never ask for someone to black out the limitation number of a damaged book, and advise them to keep it / sell it! In instances where there has been problems with the Lord of the Rings limited editions we have been arranging replacements and will be asking for the original books to be returned for repair.”

642coffeewithastraw
Mai 17, 2022, 11:39 am

>641 HugoDumas: This seems to directly contradict the seller’s claim they can keep the original copy. Seems very shady. Apologies if it is aboveboard but I am squinting trying to see how it could be.

643SF-72
Mai 17, 2022, 12:19 pm

I don't know this, naturally, but there have been cases of parcels going astray (or being stolen, to put it less politely). This was an option we first had on the table before the 'FS didn't want a return and now someone is selling their replacement or original'. I know that some private presses actively look for such stolen titles because they know which limitation numbers went missing. It increasingly looks like something like that to me, though I could be wrong, of course. It would definitely make sense to blacken out the limitation number to make sure that nobody can follow up on a stolen set.

644mr.philistine
Mai 17, 2022, 1:23 pm

>640 Jayked: Ah, the one-man show!

>643 SF-72: It would definitely make sense to blacken out the limitation number to make sure that nobody can follow up on a stolen set.

Or even a lettered copy that failed to catch the fancy of one of the chosen 25.

645Hrodberht
Mai 17, 2022, 1:41 pm

>602 SyllicSpell: "Curious. The same seller recently sold an LE Haunting of Hill House with the limitation number blacked out, apparently because the bookplate is upside-down."

What an unlucky seller... even the slip case was printed upside-down!

646cronshaw
Bearbeitet: Mai 17, 2022, 2:32 pm

>641 HugoDumas: Thank you for sharing. It sounds as though what the seller told >609 RRCBS: is false in that case. I'm going to keep this item permanently in my eBay watch list so that I can keep track of the seller, who appears to want to try and change his seller name whenever he can, and make sure I never accidentally buy anything from him.

647What_What
Mai 17, 2022, 3:01 pm

>624 bacchus.: He, or she.

648vmb443
Mai 17, 2022, 3:52 pm

In following this discussion, here’s an out there idea - would it be possible for Folio to have a handful of official representatives in each country who agree to accept returns (thereby reducing shipping costs for returns), who then agree to asses the damage and the validity of the need for a replacement copy and give the green light for replacement. The said representative would then be authorized to list the damaged books for sale with any income being directed back to Folio or a Folio designated charity (perhaps literacy centers, etc)? Representatives would be selected based on their customer history with Folio. In exchange their authorized representative would be paid with free copies of newly released books. I’d sign up! So PM me Mole.

649stubedoo
Mai 17, 2022, 6:21 pm

>648 vmb443:

Seems like an awful lot of effort, given that fraud is probably very small in the normal way of things for what they sell. This LoTR is probably a bit more of a fraud incentive than 99% of the books they sell. I'm sure they price in a certain amount of loss. These books can probably be replaced once-over for every copy and still be profitable, so a handful of copies probably doesn't matter to them that much.

650vmb443
Mai 17, 2022, 6:55 pm

>649 stubedoo: You’re probably right. It would (I expect) only be an issue with LEs.

651mr.philistine
Mai 24, 2022, 12:57 am

Dieser Beitrag hat von mehreren Benutzern eine Missbrauchskennzeichnung erhalten und wird nicht mehr angezeigt. (anzeigen)
A copy of the FS LOTR LE 2022 with a blacked out limitation number first mentioned in >587 HugoDumas: sold on 21 May, 2022 for £1,330 after 4-bids, though the seller 'smyvita' aka 'jamroundette' is yet to receive or leave a feedback for this transaction. All bidders were listed as 'private listing - bidder identity protected'.
I find it a strange coincidence that the forum member who first mentioned 'smyvita' in >617 bacchus.: - 'clymbouris', has now changed their name to 'bacchus.' Is it in homage to the aforementioned seller/ transaction?
Just the musings of an inquisitive mind, no malice whatsoever intended :)

652wcarter
Mai 24, 2022, 1:53 am

>651 mr.philistine:
Curiouser and curiouser!

653bacchus.
Bearbeitet: Mai 24, 2022, 3:10 am

>651 mr.philistine: I find it a strange coincidence that the forum member who first mentioned 'smyvita' in >617 bacchus.: bacchus.: - 'clymbouris', has now changed their name to 'bacchus.' Is it in homage to the aforementioned seller/ transaction?
Just the musings of an inquisitive mind, no malice whatsoever intended :)


Yet you are being malicious by trying to link me to something quite serious. Do I really need to explain myself to you?

654stopsurfing
Bearbeitet: Mai 24, 2022, 3:45 am

>651 mr.philistine: I agree with >653 bacchus.: and I find your comment a classic example of the ‘just asking questions’ method of maligning someone’s character that leaves the (non)accuser with clean hands and the victim having to defend their reputation. I suspect this insinuation seemed funny to you at the time, but written down it looks malicious and has absolutely no place on this forum IMO.

655cronshaw
Mai 24, 2022, 4:35 am

>651 mr.philistine: Given that clymbouris/bacchus specifically posted a warning about smyvita/jamroundette in post >617 bacchus.: and advised avoiding that seller, it seems non-sensical to me to insinuate any 'strange coincidence'.

656mr.philistine
Mai 24, 2022, 4:36 am

>653 bacchus.: In the nebulous world of online forums and virtual avatars, every coincidence matters; most especially when two [unusual] events are closely linked in more ways than one (timing, first mention/ association etc..).

Ergo, while at first glance my observation might seem accusatory, it is as innocent as it is blunt. I see you have edited your post at least thrice and removed your demand for an apology. Nevertheless, the question still stands, alongside your right to invoke the Fifth Amendment. :)

657bacchus.
Bearbeitet: Jun. 24, 2022, 2:23 pm

.

658RRCBS
Mai 24, 2022, 6:11 am

Personally, I don’t see what’s sinister here. The poster being accused of changing their name has been posting for a couple of years ish if I recall. If he/she feels called out, I don’t see what’s wrong with giving an apology.

659What_What
Bearbeitet: Mai 24, 2022, 8:10 pm

>651 mr.philistine: Weren’t you the same person that was going after that eBay seller a few months ago, when she stumbled upon some out of print book for a good price, and was simply trying to make a living buying and selling books? Mocking them, linking to their YouTube channel and stuff? Apologies if I’m mistaken, but I don’t think I am, especially based on this recent comment.

Also, as someone else said, if you have something to say, just say it, and stop with the Trump-style “people are saying it, I don’t know if is true but hey that’s what people say.”

Edited: yes, it was you, back in February in the delusional sellers thread. Saw a video, tracked down the person’s eBay listings, linked to their YouTube channel to mock them.

660stubedoo
Mai 24, 2022, 5:41 pm

Seems like a weird idea, that someone reporting a problematic eBay listing and then later changing their screen name is weird. They don't feel remotely connected (and I can't see what nefarious advantage would be gained).

Feels like an odd diversion from the topic at hand.

661mr.philistine
Mai 24, 2022, 9:25 pm

>658 RRCBS: Apologizing for drawing attention to someone who themselves called out another - however disagreeable their selling tactics might be, for changing their username is hardly consistent.

>657 bacchus.: The question I posed in >651 mr.philistine: was whether your change in username was in homage to the seller? My stance is not affected by (if)any revelations of connections.

Pretending (like a few first responders) that changing usernames is commonplace is IMO suspect. We may change our brand of cigar, underwear, dentist, spouse... but how often do we change the frontend of our identity? As far as the 'two [unusual] events' I mentioned in >656 mr.philistine:, it is the change of usernames by both parties - one of whom was first mentioned by the other, in less than 10-days.

>654 stopsurfing: FWIW, reputations belong with usernames. If usernames change, it is natural to assume that the user wants a fresh start. I simply made the connection. Hypersensitivity IMHO has no place on this forum or any forum regardless of guilt/ innocence.

>659 What_What: Responded to your self-righteous outburst here: https://www.librarything.com/topic/339257#7757861 :)

662stubedoo
Mai 25, 2022, 12:08 am

>661 mr.philistine:

I don't get it - is there something specific about the usernames chosen (that I'm missing) or are you drawing the connection simply because the dodgy eBay seller changed their name and then the LT user changed their name around the same time?

663terebinth
Bearbeitet: Mai 25, 2022, 3:29 am

>661 mr.philistine: Pretending (like a few first responders) that changing usernames is commonplace is IMO suspect. We may change our brand of cigar, underwear, dentist, spouse... but how often do we change the frontend of our identity?

The only evidence I've accrued on that matter would be an online forum of which I've been a member for 18 years, where there's a permanent "sticky" thread for username changes and several members each year, from a not enormous active base, weary of seeing whatever name they initially adopted. The record of changes is there so that others can know the human behind the new screen ID that appears with perhaps hundreds or thousands of posts to its credit. I expect many a name is picked up in haste - the one I'm using here certainly was, in yet another online place, after a couple of less recondite proposals which I've long forgotten had already been taken - and quite a few are repented at leisure.

664stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Jun. 1, 2022, 8:05 pm

Not going to post up pictures as I've included my personal details on the ones I have sent to Folio (and also more of the same that we have already seen, plus don't want to add to the library of photos that might be used by people making false claims), but my set arrived today.

Fellowship has a split at the top left on the upper stamping and also a rub to the top left of the binding.
The TT seems fine.
RotK had relatively bad rubbing to the foot. Edit: Also a slight split to the right of the upper spine stamping, and quite a bit of rubbing to the bottom of the cloth on the rear board.

Overall packaging excellent, but the books need better QC (regarding the split) and really they need to be individually wrapped in tissue for transport, IMHO. The ones that don't have any QC faults are not durable enough to survive the trip (and the outer parcel was pristine, so these things have not had a rough ride).

Have emailed Folio - These ones will need to be going back.

665punkzip
Jun. 1, 2022, 9:09 am

>664 stubedoo: According to what I've seen on the FB page, there may not be any replacements left unfortunately.

666antinous_in_london
Bearbeitet: Jun. 1, 2022, 10:53 am

>665 punkzip: Yes , there are no replacements. My copy arrived damaged also & they advised that Italy had run out of materials so could not repair & they have no new copies left for swaps. For my books they offered to collect them & send them to Smith-Settle for repair at their expense & said that their operations director was now personally overseeing all returns for LOTR. The email started ‘ we have had lengthy discussions about problems with the limited edition Lord of the Rings books here in recent weeks’ so seems like it’s definitely more than just a couple.

667mr.philistine
Jun. 1, 2022, 1:51 pm

>641 HugoDumas: (follow up response)… Folio would never ask for someone to black out the limitation number of a damaged book, and advise them to keep it / sell it! ...we have been arranging replacements and will be asking for the original books to be returned for repair.

Since all copies were spoken for within 34h 15m of going live per >340 wcarter:, one must assume that FS have been sending replacements with the same limitation number to verified claimants.

Here is another case which seems identical to the scenario mentioned in >614 mr.philistine:.
Assuming this seller has obtained a replacement, s/he managed to sell a 'pristine and complete' damaged copy without any mention of limitation here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265703565472 for £1,295 (Best Offer accepted) and now has another copy with a single digit (#9 of 1000) limitation for a BIN price of £1,795 here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265703483469

In light of everything and the disaster of having two copies of the same limitation number in circulation, I wonder how FS plan to enforce a return of damaged copies if they did not do so prior dispatch of replacements.

668SF-72
Jun. 1, 2022, 3:15 pm

>667 mr.philistine:

As an honest buyer I actually appreciate the fact that I could return my limited edition Hill House after I received the replacement. There was damage to the book itself, but if something had been wrong with the solander box or print, I could have 'assembled' one flawless set from both. I didn't need to do so, but you never know and I just felt safer that way. I assume they would have double charged me if I'd had the nerve to just keep both copies. In the end, this is always a balancing act between providing good customer service to honest buyers, and the option of dishonest ones possibly abusing it. I'd rather they erred on the side of good customer service, even if it's ugly that there are dishonest people out there.

669stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Jun. 1, 2022, 8:08 pm

>665 punkzip:

Yeah, will see what they have to say. Could probably be fixed by a decent book binder (I imagine the small split would be filled) and the rubs would be re-tinted. Not sure how that would work here in NZ, though. I expect I will hear for them in due course.

I think I'll be happiest just returning them. They just don't seem durable enough, and having measured the useful part of the page (the bit with the text on, the text on these mammoths is a whopping 1cm taller than the 1992 HarperCollins and the same width. I think the unnecessary size and weight has been these books' downfall, tbh.

670mr.philistine
Jun. 2, 2022, 6:50 am

>668 SF-72: As FS continue to target a wider audience with popular genres hitherto considered untouchable, so has its exposure to increased numbers of miscreants, scalpers and the like. A quick check only on eBay reveals 27 sold and 10 live listings for this LE, not to mention potential buyers of multiple copies, sellers who might hit the market in the long run or sales on other platforms.

Regarding double-charging, the rules against charging without consent notwithstanding, such plans could be confounded with prepaid/ virtual cards, PayPal etc.. and unless asked to return damaged goods before or at the time of delivery of replacement, buyers could easily claim to have destroyed the damaged item due to lack of specific instructions.

Despite the longstanding tradition of trust generally shown towards buyers, the need for a robust return mechanism cannot be discounted. Good customer service needs good customers, just as law and order work only when the majority choose to make it work. Sadly, both numbers appear to be declining steadily and overtly.

671horrorbooks
Bearbeitet: Jun. 2, 2022, 11:19 am

Very nice edition of LOR, congrats to everyone who were able to get it. Really like illustrations. I live in Switzerland and got a very fast delivery from FS too.

Next, FS is in good position to produce Game of Thrones limited editions but with totally different illustrations from their regular editions.

672English-bookseller
Jun. 2, 2022, 11:33 am

>670 mr.philistine: Fully agreed with your post. Has to be the way forward for the Folio Society.

673punkzip
Bearbeitet: Jun. 2, 2022, 1:14 pm

>670 mr.philistine: Presumably, the reason FS doesn't ask international buyers to return damaged copies is that they don't want to eat the cost of shipping and lose even more money, given that they don't have ding and dent sales what would they do with these returned books?

I've always assumed that FS has already priced this into their retail prices, perhaps the non-market exchange rates that international buyers pay.

674Uppernorwood
Jun. 2, 2022, 1:48 pm

>673 punkzip: there must be a reason they don’t ask for a return, but they could ask the customer to tear out specific pages and provide a postage service to return them.

This cost would be minimal and it would prevent re-sale of the book.

Even if this prevents only a handful of dishonest claims, it would save them thousands of pounds in lost sales.

675Shadekeep
Jun. 2, 2022, 2:34 pm

>674 Uppernorwood: Agreed, some kind of system to prevent even the more casual fraud would help. Now that FS has run out of replacement copies of LE, they are paying out of pocket to have damaged editions repaired. If some of the intended replacement copies were snapped up earlier by fraudsters, then this is further financially damaging to FS.

676stubedoo
Jun. 2, 2022, 3:35 pm

>675 Shadekeep:

I suspect the profit margins on this edition are at a level that a handful of fraudulently claimed copies is largely irrelevant. I'm pretty sure Folio aren't idiots and have run their numbers about what works for them. And I know there has been mention of there being potentially more than once copy in circulation with the same limitation number. I'm kinda "who cares?" about that. It is all artificial anyway, and all that matters is that there are roughly 1000 copies.

The real issue here is why so many copies were either defective at source or damaged in shipping - and the last couple of hundred copies appear to be every bit as problematic as the first batch. I don't understand why nothing was learned between the first 800 being bound and shipped and the last 200.

677Shadekeep
Jun. 2, 2022, 3:46 pm

>676 stubedoo: I hope the poached copies didn't impact their bottom line too badly. I don't know what their margin is on something like this, especially with the paper shortage and other supply chain issues. I know a number of fine presses operate on the ragged edge, but I would imagine FS is more bulwarked against loss.

678stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Jun. 2, 2022, 4:33 pm

>677 Shadekeep:

I would imagine the margin on this particular edition is pretty enormous, to be honest. I'd certainly hope that the number of fraudulent claims is dwarfed by tge genuine ones. I think that's where the real issue is.

679paulm16
Bearbeitet: Jun. 14, 2022, 5:46 pm

Although I hadn’t intended to do so I may have inadvertently tested the margins on this.

My copy was a “late batch” delivery.
The packaging was as per my PKD Limited edition which was more than adequate. Definitely no possibility of in-transit damage, so we’ll done FS.

As for the books themselves, I had half a dozen of the tipped in illustrations stuck to the preceding page by excess glue but with careful consideration I was able to fix these to my satisfaction. My RofTK had split leather in one place and some unusual white spotting on the rear cover and I thought the slip case was not built with the strength it needed.

I spoke to customer services and sent some pictures of the problems and in reply they offered a new copy of RofTK and a new slipcase which was all fine by me.

Subsequently they got back to me saying they had no spare stock and offered instead to try and repair said problems.

I declined that option due to its uncertainty and suggested they might offer an additional book as compensation, the volume I had chosen had a list price equal to 23 percent of the original cost of the LOTR LE. However Folio Society told me that the maximum they could agree would be equivalent to 15 percent of the original cost.
My personal choice was that I thought that insufficient and I have decided to return the books for a full refund.

I very much liked the books, but for £1000 I wanted them to be top of the range. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and for me they were worth £750+ but not £1000. Folio Society thought the worth was no less than £850.

C’est la vie.

680stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Jun. 14, 2022, 8:16 pm

Mine was also late batch (930) and they offered me to have them sent back to the UK for repair (at their cost), but that would not have resolved the issue with the damaged cloth to FoTR even if it essentially fixed the leather acceptably. They weren't willing to offer any discount in exchange for accepting them as-is (despite the repair and courier turnaround to NZ undoubtedly being £200+), so I also decided to return the books for full refund. The books had cost me £1250 to New Zealand, so anything less than perfect at that price just wasn't going to fly. I'm not going to lose any sleep and I'm happy to have seen the books in person.

Note - I also had the issue of the tipped in illustrations being stuck to the opposite page in several cases. They came loose without any apparent damage, but I was a little surprised.

681treereader
Jun. 14, 2022, 11:58 pm

Curious…what happens when one has Folio repair this set, with double overseas shipping on them, and then it’s still not good enough? Will they still accept a return?

682stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Jun. 15, 2022, 12:24 am

>681 treereader:

Not sure. But it's a good question and I didn't really want to find I'd had them do three trips around the world (wasting much aviation fuel) and they still weren't up to par (other than the obvious unfixable bit). If I loved the bindings, would perhaps be a different issue, but they are totally "meh" (to me).

I would suspect they would perhaps repair the set and then use it to fix up other sets maybe (possibly ones in the UK)? But they will be down at least £130 just on DHL shipping, plus whatever the repair cost ends up being. I was surprised they weren't willing/able to do any discount just to avoid the shipping cost/hassle.I didn't ask for any specific number, just whether that would be an alternate option to returning for repair, but they presumably have a policy against (as economically it makes no sense for them not to).

The FoTR can't be fixed fully as the cloth has almost melted (gone smooth and dark) where it is rubbed. No way they can ever sell this set as anything other than a "second". Equally, they have a list of people who missed out who probably are OK with seconds at RRP. I'm just not of them.

683whytewolf1
Jun. 15, 2022, 1:01 am

>682 stubedoo: If they send it back to the bindery that made it, they can absolutely fix it. If it's called for, they can just strip the book back down to the text block and rebind it. And you'd better believe that L.E.G.O. S.p.A. is eating some of the cost of these problems.

684stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Jun. 15, 2022, 1:45 am

>683 whytewolf1:

Apparently the issue is that LEGO simply doesn't have the materials (I think they already produced quite a lot of replacements), so they can't fix them. So they are being tidied up by Smith-Settle instead.

685whytewolf1
Jun. 15, 2022, 7:09 am

>684 stubedoo: I see. Thanks for the clarification.

686What_What
Jun. 15, 2022, 8:27 am

>684 stubedoo: Maybe someone could request a custom rebind, as the books are already at a bookbinder of renown!

687abysswalker
Jun. 15, 2022, 8:54 am

>686 What_What: now that would have been a creative business solution. With some slightly more active quality assurance processes, Folio Society could have set aside the flawed copies beforehand and marketed them with unique design bindings for higher prices.

688Chemren
Jun. 15, 2022, 10:25 am

Perhaps they can mix and match volumes between returned sets to get some full quality sets.

689stubedoo
Bearbeitet: Jun. 15, 2022, 4:41 pm

>688 Chemren:

Yes, potentially. I definitely felt like return was their preferred option. They kind of had to offer the repair option, but their unwillingness to discount, even to less than the cost of transport/repair makes me think they really wanted the copies back as the no.1 option for them. Every return is a customer that can be cancelled out as being a problem, but also the potential for rectifying the situation of one or two other customers using the returned materials. Like I say, I'm not massively fussed. I'm happy enough for someone that really wants this edition to get my copies when repaired.

690Cat_of_Ulthar
Jun. 20, 2022, 10:52 am

I've been meaning to amend something I posted above (>526 Cat_of_Ulthar:) but kept forgetting until now.

I said of the maps that 'They appear to be printed on some sort of cloth (reminds me of my Dad’s old OS maps) which I hope will last better than paper would.'

Having had another look or two while I've been working my way through the books, I think I was misled by the feel of them. My guess is it's some sort of textured coating on the paper which feels like cloth.

I still like them, though. And I love the books.

691mr.philistine
Jul. 7, 2022, 11:11 pm

Pursuant to the 1st part of >651 mr.philistine: seller 'smyvita' aka 'jamroundette' has made another apparent sale of Volumes 1 & 2 of the infamous 'blacked out' LOTR LE 2022 for £375 on 07 July, 2022.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144637946543