Tracking Trump's Criminal Liability Post-Presidency 4

It is possible that the head guy at CNN wanted to accomplish two things during the Trump Town Hall ~ increase the prime-time ratings numbers AND help the people investigating Trump by giving the narcissist plenty of time in which to lie and defame people. Both things seemed to happen whether or not that was the plan.

Trump is happy and his MAGAs are happy. Unfortunately, his MAGAs are using fifth grade reasoning to navigate their adult lives in 21st Century America. The tycoon was set for life from the day he was hatched.

>1 Molly3028:

Fifth-grade reasoning? My, my, you are generous.

https://www.rawstory.com/former-gop-rep-republican-fundraisers-scared-to-of-trum...
'Republican fundraisers scared to death' after Trump town hall performance: former GOP congressman

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/ex-fox-news-chief-praises-cnn-kaitlan-collins-says-t...
Ex-Fox News Chief Praises CNN, Kaitlan Collins — Says Trump Deserved Town Hall ‘Monster or Not’

“Town halls like this one help Americans to think for themselves. It wasn’t so long ago that journalists were able to report hard truths and conduct tough interviews without worrying about upsetting some segment of their viewers. CNN deserves a lot of credit for attempting to return to a baseline that I always considered Journalism 101, but which now feels downright old-fashioned.”

***
On the lighter side ~

Just thinking about the possibility of the man-child being re-elected next year must be giving the plumbing engineer at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue nightmares!!!

Did Donald Trump Seriously Sell Pardons?
The sexual assault lawsuit against Rudy Giuliani is chock-full of other shocking allegations.
Michael Tomasky | May 19, 2023

...Noelle Dunphy, who worked for Rudy Giuliani back in 2019, filed a complaint this week alleging all manner of grotesque behavior by her old boss. But even as I waded through that sordid muck, I gasped when I got to paragraph 132:

"{Giuliani} also asked Ms. Dunphy if she knew anyone in need of a pardon, telling her that he was selling pardons for $2 million, which he and President Trump would split. He told Ms. Dunphy that she could refer individuals seeking pardons to him, so long as they did not go through “the normal channels” of the Office of the Pardon Attorney, because correspondence going to that office would be subject to disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act." ...

https://newrepublic.com/post/172849/donald-trump-seriously-sell-pardons
---------------------------------------------------------

"That's an actual crime": Experts stunned at alleged Giuliani-Trump plot to sell pardons for $2M
Selling presidential pardons could violate bribery and theft of honest services laws, ex-prosecutor says
Gabriella Ferrigine | May 16, 2023

...The complaint also states that Giuliani claimed he had "immunity" and discussed presidential pardons, which he said he was selling for $2 million and would split with then-President Donald Trump....

https://www.salon.com/2023/05/16/thats-an-actual-crime-experts-stunned-at-allege...

https://www.mediaite.com/news/just-in-e-jean-carroll-suing-trump-again-for-comme...
JUST IN: E. Jean Carroll Files For Additional Damages Over Trump’s Comments Made During CNN Town Hall

EXCLUSIVE: Trump captured on tape talking about classified document he kept after leaving the White House
Katelyn Polantz, Paula Reid and Kaitlan Collins, CNN | May 31, 2023

...The recording indicates Trump understood he retained classified material after leaving the White House, according to multiple sources familiar with the investigation. On the recording, Trump’s comments suggest he would like to share the information but he’s aware of limitations on his ability post-presidency to declassify records, two of the sources said. ...

...Trump “recalls a four-page report typed up by (Trump’s former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) Mark Milley himself. It contained the general’s own plan to attack Iran, deploying massive numbers of troops, something he urged President Trump to do more than once during his presidency.”...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/31/politics/trump-tape-classified-document-iran-mill...

>7 margd: In some ways, Trump's unwillingness to invade Iran is a good point, but if he were a competent businessman, why would he have hired people who wanted to invade Iran?

>7 margd: if true it doesn't paint Mark Milley in a very good light. A couple things on that---it seems it was not meant for the public to hear so I wouldn't think Trump was deiiberately lying but he might possibly have mixed up Milley for John Bolton who absolutely wanted to invade Iran. That said these higher echelon military leaders do like their wars......they didn't want to leave Iraq or Afghanistan either and we'd be there for the next thousand years if they had their way rather than pull out just so they don't have to admit it didn't work.

Also I'm not sure that the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is chosen by the POTUS. I'm kind of thinking (but not sure) that he's chosen by the other chiefs of staff by the branches of the military service excluding the USCG.

6-3-23

https://www.mediaite.com/news/maggie-haberman-scoops-new-tape-that-angered-and-u...
Maggie Haberman Scoops NEW Tape That ‘Angered And Unnerved’ Trump Aides In Criminal Documents Probe

Just days after blockbuster CNN reporting on Trump being caught on tape discussing a classified document that he had taken with him when he left the White House, Haberman and colleagues Alan Feuer and Ben Protess have news about a different tape, obtaining details of a lengthy recording Corcoran made about the docs probe that has Trumpworld shook.....

***
AND Trump's lawyers haven't found the doc that was reported about in the original CNN blockbuster report.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnns-dana-bash-floored-by-house-republicans-suggesti...
CNN’s Dana Bash Floored By House Republican’s Suggestion That Multiple Investigations Into Trump Give Him ‘Credibility’

***
My takeaway ~ A Hitler-type mission is not needed to destroy a huge democracy in the 2020's. A very popular TV celebrity and con artist can easily carry out that kind of undertaking with a smile and an "act" that entertains the clueless masses.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/breaking-trump-indicted-for-retention-of-classifie...
BREAKING: Trump Indicted in Classified Documents Case

Due in court next Tuesday in Florida
Seven counts

***
Let the grifting begin!!!

No doubt, he's already fundraising off of this.

....OTOH, fucking huzzah.

Rick Wilson @TheRickWilson | 7:17 AM · Jun 9, 2023:
Lincoln Project. Tallahassee, FL

1/ Before we enter a sunny summer where fecund nature's bounty grows green and wild and where the laughter of the warm wind caresses the flowers, let's get some perspective over the indictment, the GOP field, the conservative media apparatus, and the dangers of magical thinking.

2/ The argument the case must be airtight if they're moving it to Miami to protect it from venue challenges that would obtain if it were tried in DC is...dangerous.

There's no better summary than this from @MarcACaputo:
‘Prosecuting Politicians is Hard Here’: Why South Florida is a Tough Place for DOJ to Try Trump
'Forget documents - if Trump shot someone on Calle Ocho, a Miami jury would find him not guilty,' said one veteran defense attorney
Marc Caputo | 06/08/23
https://themessenger.com/politics/trump-south-florida-miami-doj-jury-challenge

3/ Miami is a hotbed of Trump voters, supporters, skells, dreamers, boat-paraders, cultists, and people terrified of dead communists and imaginary communism.

The baseline of tolerable corruption in Miami makes normies heads spin.

4/ It only takes one sleeper on the jury to set Trump free. DC types and particularly DOJ DC types think evidence triumphs, and in a just world it should.

Among the MAGAe, particularly the South FL MAGAe, they live in a profoundly alternate reality.

5/ Hope for the best, plan for the worst, but even people in South FL who don't scan as MAGA during jury selection won't be MAGA in action, or motivated by alternate media the DOJ doesn't understand. Stuff on Miami WhatsApp and Miami radio makes Fox look like the BBC.

6/ Obvious criminality is not a disqualifier in the GOP today...

https://www.mediaite.com/news/just-in-trump-announces-shake-up-of-legal-team-on-...
JUST IN: Trump Announces Shake Up of Legal Team on Classified Docs Case After Lawyers Resign

Former president Donald Trump announced on Friday morning that he would be hiring new lawyers to defend him in the impending federal criminal case against him, or as he put it “the Greatest Witch Hunt of all time” after they resigned on Friday morning.

On Truth Social, Trump updated his followers on his legal team, explaining that “For purposes of fighting the Greatest Witch Hunt of all time, now moving to the Florida Courts, I will be represented by Todd Blanche, Esq., and a firm to be named later.”

“I want to thank Jim Trusty and John Rowley for their work, but they were up against a very dishonest, corrupt, evil, and ‘sick’ group of people, the likes of which has not been seen before,” he continued. “We will be announcing additional lawyers in the coming days. When will Joe Biden be Indicted for his many crimes against our Nation? MAGA!”

***
DJT's third-rate lawyers probably lacked the appetite for a courtroom duel with a high-profile achiever like Jack Smith. A Mark-Levin type should jump at the chance to take on the thankless assignment for free.

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/new-trump-aide-seen-moving-boxes-at-mar-a-lago...
NEW: Trump Aide Seen Moving Boxes at Mar-a-Lago Indicted in Florida Case, Trump Freaks Out on Truth Social

The return of Aileen Cannon. She gets to handle the initial proceedings in this case. She ruled for Trump just about every time the last time around no matter how ridiculous his claims or asks were. Slowed down the process a lot. This is where all the Special Masters nonsense happened.

>17 lriley: Tfg loves delay tactics. She will help with delays. Same with Trusty and Rowley leaving--"I need lots of time to have my new lawyers come up to speed" so can we set a trial date for several years in the future?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/read-the-full-federal-indictment-in-the-tru...

Read the full federal indictment in the Trump classified documents case

37 total counts from 7 charges

Jack Smith is speaking at 3 p.m.

Our nation's secrets in MAL bathroom (photo)
https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1667254832686563329/photo/1

An indictment unintended consequence or a plan of action that worked out perfectly???

It appears Trump and the MAGAs in Congress are going to have another full year in which to jack the GOP around and prove to a vast majority of Americans that the Grand Old Party is ill equipped to govern in 21st Century America. That kind of scenario works perfectly for me.

>21 Molly3028:

You must be an optimistic sort to think that the vast majority remains susceptible to that kind of proof and also shares your notion of what constitutes effective government. 2016 is my reason for writing that.

Me, I fear there's a real possibility I'll live to see the Untied States of America and all that that entails.

We're social animals and people like to talk to other people. That said it's impossible to talk to someone when ideologies really come into the mix. Once someone goes too far down that road there's almost no moving them.

Unfortunately we have millions of people in the United States who will vote for Trump because they've bought into an ideology that Donald has been able to exploit whether it's on their religious beliefs, gun rights, white supremacy etc. or a combination of such things and he's encouraged and empowered these people to move deeper into their beliefs and ideologies and it's for the most part not fact based......more faith and feeling based. He speaks to their resentments and it acts out quite often in anger and victimization.

But anyway what I see is it's a message that's good for 35% to 40% of the voting population but impossible to grow from there. If the Democrats get their vote out enough to override the electoral college handicap that the Republican Party depends more and more on to keep afloat Trump won't win again. For sure he'll get his party's nomination but unlike 2016 he has a real track record now and it ain't pretty. We can talk about how unpopular Biden is and that is real and I'm not really a fan but comparatively he's been a breath of fresh air. There are other things that mitigate against the Republicans----the Supreme Court and its rulings particularly on abortion that the GOP whether they like it or not are going to be running on and having to defend again, all the craziness inherent with their second amendment immovability, denials of climate change, white supremacist and militia advocacies which leads us to January 6 via Charlottesville, all the religious fundamentalism, all the marginalization of races, religions and social groups (anti BLM, trans and gay for instance) that don't fit into what they envision what a red blooded white male 'merican should be, their anti-science bs that took center state throughout this covid epidemic and we can go on and on. All this shit has hooked who it's hooked and most all of them aren't moving off the mountains they're willing to die on. But pretty much no one else is not interested in joining them on their mountaintops.

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/george-conway-marvels-at-airtight-trump-indict...
George Conway Marvels at ‘Airtight’ Trump Indictment: ‘It’s Crazy How Powerful This Evidence Is’

......“And that’s what’s so devastating here,” Conway continued. “The directness of his contact with the obstruction is so short. It’s such a short distance between him and the obstructive act.”

He went on to say that President Richard Nixon was far more insulated in his efforts to obstruct the Watergate investigation.

“And with Nixon, it took a long chain of people that led to Nixon,” he said. “Nixon was way up at the top of a pyramid and he really was the last to know. Trump is here in the boxes messing with the boxes, moving them around at his at his home, in his bathroom, over a toilet! I mean, it’s crazy how powerful this evidence is and you just take one-tenth of this, and you have a case that’s airtight.”

***
DJT's unforced errors appear to be a way for him to continue living his fantasy-world saga while those same errors are helping to hasten the demise of the modern-day GOP. And the GOP reps are helping him accelerate the party's demise via their "what about" malarky that his clueless cult voters love so much.

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/ann-coulter-mocks-charlie-kirk-by-calling-on-e...

Ann Coulter Mocks Charlie Kirk by Calling on ‘Every Republican to Commit Suicide in Solidarity With Trump’

Conservative author Ann Coulter jokingly(?) called on “every Republican to commit suicide in solidarity” with former President Donald Trump on Friday after Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk encouraged Trump’s rivals to drop out of the Republican primary in solidarity with Trump over his indictment.

***
A party death-wish syndrome appears to be spreading like a wildfire through the male population of the modern-day GOP.

>23 lriley:

Yes; broadly, I agree. An important vulnerability that I see is that that sixty percent has to be able to vote and has to trouble themselves to do so.

I would be more optimistic if the Electoral College were removed from the process. While it stands, voter suppression and widespread gerrymandering allow various state legislatures to fiddle the College numbers away from the popular vote. And I don't see there being any realistic hope of doing away with the College.

Personally, I will never, ever understand why people like Kellyanne Conway and Trump's ex-Navy valet blew up their personal lives to do Trump's bidding for several years. KC skewered her family and ended a 24-year marriage, and the valet is an indicted co-conspirator in the doc saga. What is it about Trump/Trumpism/????? that entices seemingly normal people to do such insane life-changing things???

And I wouldn't be surprised if Trump and his lawyers eventually throw the valet under the bus.

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/kari-lake-warns-biden-doj-will-have-to-go-thro...
Kari Lake Warns Biden, DOJ Will Have to Go Through ‘Card-Carrying Members of the NRA’ to Get to Trump

Republican politician and commentator Kari Lake said on Friday that those seeking to prosecute former President Donald Trump would have to go through her and 75 million other Americans, before warning that many of them were “card-carrying members” of the National Rifle Association (NRA).

***
Reality Winner spent 5 years in prison because of one document. Trump will never spend a minute in prison because of psychos like Kari Lake, a typical modern-day lawless member of Lincoln's Grand Old Party.

Is it possible that the dude living in the White House during the country's 250th birthday could be someone with a rap sheet that includes two impeachment investigations and two, three, maybe four criminal indictments???

The GOP has given America two criminal, pre-birthday presidents ~ Nixon just prior to the 200th ~ Trump just prior to the 250th. The party's modern-day members appear to be on a mission to nuke Lincoln's party, and our democracy, this time around. As the IMAN always said, you can't make this stuff up.

When trump was, wrongly, convinced that Hillary had stolen classified documents he amended a law from a misdemeanor to a felony in order to increase her sentence once she was convicted. Now he is subject to that very law adding 5 years to each charge. #TrumpIndicted

- Chris 🟧💙😷♋️🇺🇸🇵🇱🇩🇪🇺🇦🌻😷😷 @chrisapple1212 | 7:55 PM · Jun 8, 2023
--------------------------------------------------

As president, Trump approved a law increasing penalties for mishandling classified info. It could come back to bite him.
Tom Porter | Aug 10, 2022

...Trump signed the bill, which made changes to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, into law in January 2018.

It upgraded the seriousness of wrongly moving classified material, turning it from a misdemeanor into a felony — and increasing the maximum sentence to five years, up from one.

(Bradley P. Moss, a national security attorney) noted that it was passed after Trump's relentless attacks during the 2016 presidential campaign on Hillary Clinton, who was being investigated over whether she mishandled classified information...

indictment document (49 p)

USA v Donald J Trump and Waltine Nauta
Case 9:23-cr-80101-AMC Document 3 Entered on FLSD Docket 06/08/2023
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.fl...

Happy Indictment Day, all!

>34 2wonderY:

The old gent in the prison costume who ran towards Trump's motorcade after the arraignment was a hoot!

https://www.mediaite.com/news/msnbc-snaps-fox-newss-120-week-streak-as-top-rated...

MSNBC Snaps Fox News’s 120-Week Streak As Top-Rated Cable News Network in Prime Time

***
A majority of Americans are apparently starting to break away from the habit of listening to a steady stream of toxic GOP lies on a nightly basis.

And on this Miami Indictment Day, this took place in NYC!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/13/e-jean-carroll-trump-lawsuit-10m...
E Jean Carroll can sue Trump for $10m in new defamation case, judge rules

>37 Molly3028: Why not? Pile it on.

Trump, unlike former presidents, did not disappear into the sunset and take the time that was needed to check out the contents of his boxes. He was actively masterminding the stolen-election con job he had sown the seeds for before any votes were actually cast in late 2020. A river of contributions was flowing into his bank account from his clueless cult followers. The boxes strewn around his Mar-a-Lago Club were most likely not on his "radar screen" for half of 2021. In the end, greed and a thirst for power entrapped him in a web that allowed Jack Smith to get his man.

>39 Molly3028: Apparently he had this valet of his Walt Nauta playing hide and seek with the feds and these boxes. These boxes were also at least occasionally taking a plane ride from Mar-a-Lago to his Bedminster resort in New Jersey. He had the Feds asking him to return all this shit but he didn't want to. Anyone else they wouldn't have asked.....they'd been hauled off without any preemptory ask to disappear into a solitary cell in the gloomiest federal prison in the good ol' USA. We're chasing after the likes of people like Assange, Snowden and Manning for much much less.....or what about Ames and Pollock? Donald had a chance to walk away from all of this scot free and any normal person knowing anything about the espionage act would have jumped all over it but he petulantly decided to continue playing games.......and really this is all about him and he is going to put the country through another round of the us vs. them. He's chosen to do this though I'm pretty sure he's regretting it now. Hitler was the asshole of the 20th century. Trump is running neck and neck with Putin so far for asshole of the 21st century.

>40 lriley: Then there was Reality Winner: "Reality Leigh Winner is an American U.S. Air Force veteran and former NSA translator. In 2018, she was given the longest prison sentence ever imposed for an unauthorized release of government information to the media after she leaked an intelligence report about Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections." (Wikipedia)
---------------------------------------------------------------

Billie J. Winner-Davis @bjwinnerdavis | 6:58 PM · Jun 13, 2023:
Mother of #RealityWinner & @winnerbrittany PhD. Doing whatever I can to #PardonRealityWinner ...

I witnessed the 11th circuit court deny my daughter bail, issue a gag order, deny her witnesses & subpoenas to defend herself. For a single charge, a single document. Now I witness absolutely no restrictions on a man charged with 37 counts whose only goal is to destroy America.
Image ( https://twitter.com/bjwinnerdavis/status/1668754676521795584/photo/1 )
__________________________________________________

The DOJ Went Easy on Trump for Political Reasons
Eric Levitz | June 13, 2023

...the notion that the DOJ is selectively prosecuting Trump for political reasons is not merely wrong but the very opposite of the truth: As a matter of fact, the federal government has been affording Trump extraordinary leniency, likely as a product of political considerations.

To appreciate this, it is helpful to contrast the DOJ’s treatment of Trump with its handling of Asia Janay Lavarello, a former civilian employee of the Defense Department...

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/06/trump-indictment-not-politically-motivat...

We will never know the half of it, I suspect...

Mar-A-Lago Sought 380 Foreign Workers During Time Trump Had Access To Classified Documents
Zach Everson | Jun 14, 2023

Mar-a-Lago looked to employ 380 short-term foreign workers from 2017 to 2022, when Trump had access to classified documents, initially as president and ultimately as a former official living at the club.

...According to the indictment, Trump stored classified documents in the ballroom, a bathroom, his bedroom, a storage room and his office. It’s unclear who exactly could get inside those areas, but it would stand to reason that some Mar-a-Lago staff could access them.

Mar-a-Lago relies on foreign nationals to work as servers, cooks and housekeepers...

The requirements listed on the job orders do not seem particularly strict...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zacheverson/2023/06/14/mar-a-lago-foreign-workers-t...
------------------------------------------------------

The Mystery Of The Bedminster Documents
Josh Kovensky | June 14, 2023

...prosecutors alleged in the indictment that the records didn’t only stay in Mar-a-Lago’s chandelier-bedecked bathrooms, ballrooms, and storage rooms. They claim in the document to know of at least two episodes in which Trump moved “boxes” to his estate and golf resort in Bedminster, New Jersey.

Trump brandished classified records at Bedminster, prosecutors say, including a supposed invasion plan of Iran and a map. CBS reported last week that Trump attorneys had told the DOJ that they couldn’t find the Iran invasion plan...Prosecutors stop just short in the indictment of saying that the boxes that went to Bedminster contained the records.

...prosecutors have not charged Trump with transmission of national defense information, only retention...

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/the-mystery-of-the-bedminster-documents

Benjy Sarlin @BenjySarlin | 11:02 AM · Jun 12, 2023:
Washington Bureau Chief at @semafor.

Key difference with Clinton/Biden/Pence: "the indictment does not charge Trump with the illegal retention of any of the 197 documents he returned to the archives."

Why Trump was charged on secret documents and Clinton, Pence were not
Apparently unlike Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton and Mike Pence, Donald Trump actively tried to keep classified material he couldn't legally have, prosecutors allege.
Devlin Barrtt | 11 June 2023
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/11/clinton-biden-classi...

>41 margd: Yes and republicans are doing this whataboutism talking about a 'two-tiered justice system!' Seems to me there are more than two tiers. If you're wealthy and famous and a former POTUS it certainly helps. How many people did Trump's justice system lock away for a lot less than he did? No concern then.....but they think he should walk away for the most egregious stealing of secrets ever....and all the snide shit they said about Obama finally freeing Manning. Short term memories.

Note also that in one of the photo shots of the 'boxes' there's a copying machine about 5' away. We don't know what Trump personally was doing with any of this stuff. He was moving it around. It seems like at least at times much of the material contained within those boxes whether national security or not were accessible to just about anyone staying at or just visiting his Mar-a-Lago resort. From audiotape we also know that Trump at least occasionally teased people with the contents of material considered to be national security documents. The musician Kid Rock tells Tucker Carlson that he was such a person in a Fox television interview something like a year ago. Those two had a big laugh over it. We also know that Trump entertained a lot of people from other countries---foreign dignitaries--the possibility of spies. Mohammed Bin Salman and Trump making all kinds of lucrative deals somewhere in the timeframe after Trump's departure from the WH over the LIV golf thing. Some of these people hanging around him since he lost to Biden are IMO bad or shady actors for sure. And still our govt. knowing this gave him an out......and he refused to take it. Did Hilary need an out? I don't know ....but if what she did ever got that serious I don't think she would have not taken an out if given the choice. Mind you this use to be the subject matter of his leading his crowd with chants of 'Lock her up!' and then he does what she might have done on a scale that blows pretty much everything away. Biden and Pence returned their documents right away. Biden being POTUS has national security clearance now anyway.

To me Trump commits multiple crimes here and whether or not other people committed crimes has nothing to do with his case. Chase them down later then if you can. His anyway are easily the most egregious.

Another thing to so many conservatives Biden is this evil genius using his DOJ to target his political opponents and at the same time he's a dementia addled old duffer who can't walk and chew gum at the same time. You certainly don't see him out on the golf course. Fox News suggested the other day he's a wannabe dictator......yet he's not tried to steal an election and there's no background history of his ever not respecting an election. Personally though I did vote for him as a politician I don't like his brand of politics. I'd recognize he's been a breath of fresh air compared to his predecessor though even if he does have dementia.

>44 lriley: Liz Cheney said to MAGA-friendly politicians ~ some day Trump will be gone, but you will never get your honor back.

FYI
Amazon has 'Meet Jack Smith' t-shirts.
I could not resist the urge to buy one today!

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-indictment-fundraising/
Trump insiders were relieved by federal indictment because he needed the cash: CNN

***
Sad but true ~ Clueless souls giving money to a billionaire has become a 'thing' in the Trump era. And these people wonder why they have always been behind the eight ball in the game of life.

>45 margd: I don't even like Cheney's politics at all (her father who she defends IMO is a war criminal) but you should stand for something and be consistent in what you stand for. That doesn't mean you can't change your mind but you should signal it and be ready to explain why in detail when you do. I think that's an issue for both democratic and republican politicians but since the advent of Trump it's become a major issue for just about 99% of republican politicians. It speaks to the careerist ambitions of a lot though too. Doing/saying anything to be elected. In that Liz was giving lessons in standing up for what she believed and was willing to lose her house seat for them does say something for her in my eyes if not in the eyes of most conservatives.

'Allowing Trump to be Trump' has always been, and will always be, the GOP's fall-back position. That is the "show" his cult voters crave, and the modern-day GOP is happy to go along with their wishes. The destruction of the norms of America's democracy is collateral damage its reps are willing to tolerate.

Andrew Coyne is The Globe and Mail's chief political columnist. His column today, headlined "The United States v. Donald Trump: Trump cannot win. That’s what makes him so dangerous", contains this gem:

But the primary focus of their strategy seems to be outside the court: to so inflame popular opinion with the supposed injustice of his case, [...] to so thoroughly discredit the U.S. system of justice that, that ... well, what is the plan, actually?
...
This is what makes Mr. Trump so dangerous. There’s no plan. There’s no purpose. It’s all id. That’s all he is: a bloated, incontinent bag of every conceivable vice, belching forth at irregular intervals and covering everything within reach. Had he any of the normal human impulses – for respect, or dignity, or even self-preservation – he would be more easily recognizable, and thus comprehensible. But as it is he is invincible. It isn’t his vast wealth that is the source of his power, or his mastery of social media, or the bottomless cynicism of his enablers in the Republican leadership. It is his utter shamelessness, his refusal to be bound by any norm, convention or law, even the laws of logic.

>50 librorumamans:

Trump appears to be OK from the neck down ~ it is his health from the neck up that we have to worry about 24/7.

******
Apparently, Jack Smith was born in the first year of the Nixon presidency. Is there a kid growing up in America who will have the duty to take down the next crook that the GOP manages to get elected fifty years hence???

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/im-being-indicted-for-you-trump-goes-full-martyr-...
‘I’m Being Indicted For You!’ Trump Goes Full Martyr in Speech at Faith Conference, Rages at the ‘Scoundrels and Thugs’ Who Charged Him

***
The tragedy is the fact that many of his religious cult followers believe this crap. Trump has replaced Jesus in their lives for all intense and purposes.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-diverting-more-donations-from-pac-...
Trump diverting more donations from PAC to pay for mounting legal fees

***
The life-long con master has always been a bait-and-switch guy. In 2020's America, poor, clueless people have been giving their hard-earned money to a billionaire cult leader.

Trump is well on his way to being the most impeached and indicted American president in history. I am glad he is gaining that first-place honor with an "R" next to his name.

I just read this snippet in Heather Cox Richardson’s newsletter:

Owen Shroyer, the sidekick of conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, is indeed cooperating with prosecutors, as his request on Tuesday to change his plea indicated. Shroyer was at the January 5 meeting in the “war room” in the Willard Hotel and was on an encrypted chat with several of the key players in the attempt to steal the election for Trump. The plea deal says that he will “allow law enforcement agents to review any social media accounts…for statements and postings in and around January 6, 2021, prior to sentencing.”
———
That cooperation deal is not mentioned in most stories about his guilty plea. I had to search to find confirmation:

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/6/25/2177546/-Owen-Shroyer-has-a-Cooperati...

ETA this may not contribute to any prosecution of Trump if he had no knowledge of or contact with the “war room” in the Willard Hotel.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/just-in-cnn-airs-recording-of-trump-allegedly-showin...

BREAKING: CNN Airs Recording of Trump Allegedly Showing Off ‘Highly Confidential’ Iran Documents

***
This is two minutes of Trump testifying against himself. The amount of laughing taking place during this conversation is shocking and sad.

>55 Molly3028: Just one of the many reasons why Trump should never attain power again. They're ripping Hillary for much less moments before he begins flashing secret documents around. When they talk about two tiers to our justice system there are actually more tiers than that. if you happen to be black and/or poor for instance but anyone else caught with just one document like this would not have been given a chance to turn it back over......there would have been no negotiation. They would have been taken down as quickly as possible and frogmarched off into oblivion. It wouldn't take months and months to do it. Trump was given a chance to return everything and instead tried to hide and keep and seeing all these republican politicians circling the wagons around him that before Trump would have denounced anyone who stole secrets is hypocritical and disgusting. With only a few exceptions they've followed him down the rabbit hole en masse.

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/just-in-trump-insists-recording-of-him-showing-of...
JUST IN: Trump Insists Recording of Him Showing Off ‘Secret’ Documents is ‘Actually an Exoneration’

“The Deranged Special Prosecutor, Jack Smith, working in conjunction with the DOJ & FBI, illegally leaked and ‘spun’ a tape and transcript of me which is actually an exoneration, rather than what they would have you believe,” he wrote. “This continuing Witch Hunt is another ELECTION INTERFERENCE Scam. They are cheaters and thugs!”

***
In Trump's mind, this is just another comedy episode in his never-ending saga. These years of 24/7 coverage are the best final years any narcissist can hope to have.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/steve-doocy-says-new-trump-comment-makes-him-think-t...
Steve Doocy Says New Trump Comment Makes Him Think TRUMP Leaked Audio: ‘He’s Admitting He’s Got Classified Documents’

Using Trump’s logic, Doocy then asked his co-hosts, “You know what? If Trump thinks it’s an exoneration of him, perhaps somebody on his side actually did the leaking to CNN and Maggie Haberman?”

***
In other words, Trump is admitting to having what he thinks he legally had.

Drudge Report
IT WAS 'HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL' GOLF COURSE PLANS

https://www.semafor.com/article/06/27/2023/it-was-bravado-trump-says-he-wasnt-ho...

‘It was bravado’: Trump says he wasn’t holding up classified documents in 2021 meeting

***
I hope DJT's lawyers, and their spouses, are enjoying the Trump saga episode they are engaged in 24/7. Personally, I would hit my husband over the head with a frying pan if he had left a law firm to defend Trump.

Robert Costa @costareports | 11:39 PM · Jul 9, 2023
Chief Election & Campaign Correspondent for @CBSNews, co-author of “Peril” with @realBobWoodward, @Center4Politics Scholar at the University of Virginia
https://twitter.com/costareports/status/1678247537101160450
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1678247537101160450.html

Hearing from 2 sources, familiar with the special counsel {SC} grand jury on J6, that Trump's consideration of using purported fed. authority to seize voting machines is under scrutiny. SC probing whether there was criminal intent to build a premise for delay/block in certification...

Why this matter... investigators, I'm told, are interested in whether Trump was CHOOSING, verbally and in documented exchanges, to buy into S. Powell/Flynn suggestion that, by claiming voting machines were problematic, the election had to be sent back to the states...

See p. 194 of Peril. Look at what Trump says to the group in the room, per our reporting: "I care about getting these machines... I want to get these machines and I have a right to do so... "
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0pWKWQWAAAGdyX.png

One interesting element of this is that Giuliani despised Sidney Powell & crew and thought they were encroaching on his turf. So the SC, I'm told, is looking at how Rudy was working states for Trump, all while Powell/Flynn were working machine angle. Related but diff't schemes...

As SC explores whether there was provable criminal intent, it's becoming, at the least, a wide-ranging probe exploring how plots to overturn election developed, the sources said... whereas Rudy wanted to push states to have special sessions, the Powell group wanted fed. power...

Many Qs for witnesses, I'm told, related to whether people knowingly used fraud to try to achieve their ends. Did they know the alt. elec scheme was based on lies/bad intel? (Rudy had so many affafidavits coming in.) And did they push machine scheme knowing they weren't at fault?

Final thoughts for tonight: the reason it seems mid-December now matters in the probe is that it's BEFORE the Pence scheme really kicks in and picks up speed. It's the closest Trump comes to bringing in Powell to WH, considering EOs on machines. A moment of planning, decision...

So while "use Pence" scheme is certainly also key part of probe, SC team clearly asking questions about WHAT ELSE was considered, how, and WHEN did Trump mention it and why, and how did he respond to attys? Alt. electors, seizing voting machines, pressuring state officials, etc.

Recall, many people in that 12-18-20 Oval mtg. are cooperating w/ SC on J6 probe and repeatedly told Trump that what Powell was suggesting was not true or legal. Trump's response to guidance from attys is part of understanding his motivations and conduct.

The question remains, though, whether SC will seek indictments or write up a lengthy report... no one I've spoken with, with varying levels of connection to the investigation, is quite sure what Smith will do... the constant word is this is "serious" but hard to predict.

Reminder: After writer E. Jean Carroll publicly accused Donald Trump of sexual assault (as many woman have), he aggressively denied committing the crime and verbally attacked her from his presidential platform.

Last May, Trump was charged guilty of defaming Carroll and told by the court to pay up five million dollars. He has appealed the verdict and asked for a new trial, seemingly in yet another attempt to avoid financial punishment. (This is his legal side's usual tactic. When has he ever actually paid anyone who's not currently one of his business favorites?)

The latest news is that the FBI, which bizarrely planned to defend Trump by saying he had been acting within his duties by defaming his rape accuser, is now saying it won't do that.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/justice-department-reverses-course...

Additional Reminder: President Bill Clinton was impeached for lying about (consensual!) sexual relations.

Grand jury that could soon decide on Trump charges is seated in Georgia

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/11/trump-criminal-case-georgia-grand-jury.html

Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis, the prosecutor who has led the probe, said she will announce her charging decisions this summer within the period starting Tuesday and ending Sept. 1. Willis further indicated that indictments could come in August: In a letter to court officials, she asked that trials and in-person hearings not be scheduled between July 31 and Aug. 18.

The two grand juries empaneled Tuesday in Fulton County Superior Court will sit for a two-month term. Judge Robert McBurney presided over the selection process.

Trump says he’s received a target letter from special counsel Jack Smith’s Jan. 6 investigators

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/18/trump-says-hes-received-a-target-letter...

Trump said the letter, which is prosecutors’ typical precursor to a charging decision, offered him a chance to speak to the grand jury, which meets at the federal courthouse in Washington D.C., later this week. Targets of criminal investigations rarely speak to grand juries, and Trump has not exercised that right in the two other criminal cases in which he’s been charged.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/just-in-judge-rules-on-trial-date-torpedoes-trump-...
JUST IN: Judge Rules On Trial Date — Torpedoes Trump Effort To Delay Until After Election

MAY 2024 for docs trial.

***
The NY and GA cases appear to be moving ahead this year, though.

>61 aspirit: the FBI, which bizarrely planned to defend Trump by saying he had been acting within his duties by defaming his rape accuser, is now saying it won't do that.

There's nothing very bizarre about that, considering that those would have been instructions issued by Barr on Trump's orders and rescinded when they came to light.

>65 kiparsky: good point. I keep forgetting the FBI doesn't exist to serve the American people so much as to spy on us. Why would the agency care what injustice the POTUS commits?

Trump hit with new charges in classified documents case, third defendant added

Deleting surveillance footage.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/27/third-defendant-added-to-trump-classified-docume...

>67 2wonderY:

De Oliveira allegedly told another Mar-a-Lago employee that “the boss” wanted to delete a server containing surveillance footage showing how Trump’s boxes had been moved around at the club, according to the superseding indictment.

The new charging document also identifies de Oliveira as the person who helped Nauta move about 30 boxes from Trump’s residence to a storage room.

He also allegedly told the FBI he was not involved in moving documents that officials sought, telling agents, “Never saw anything.”

***
Jack Smith is a modern-day "Joe Friday" detective. It is time for someone to flip!

https://www.mediaite.com/news/nbc-news-analyst-compares-trump-to-confederate-pre...
NBC News Analyst Compares Trump To Confederate President — Who Said Pro-Slavery South Was ‘Cheated’ Out of Win

NBC News presidential historian Michael Beschloss

.....The scale of that is so far beyond Nixon that if we’re looking for a historical parallel, much more appropriate parallel would be Jefferson Davis. Jefferson Davis, of course, was never a president of the United States, but he was the president of the Illicit Confederate States of America. He tried an insurrection against our American Union for four years, failed with his military. But what did Davis say after the end of the Civil War? He was indicted. He was never sent for a long time to prison. And what did he say a few years later? He said, “I, I and the Confederacy did not lose the Civil War. We were cheated out of a victory that we won.”

Happy Tuesday!

Grand jury accuses Trump of conspiring to defraud the United States

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-indicted-jan-6-grand-jury-20...

The article contains the 45 page indictment document.

The trifecta. Georgia will be the home run indictment.

Even if he were to not be found guilty anywhere (and he's already been found culpable in the E. Jean Carroll trial), he will still have to pay his lawyers.

Every cent which a cult member sends to him is one less cent going to elect/re-elect another MAGA person.

>72 MsMixte: he will still have to pay his lawyers.

Huh? It's worked out fine not paying his lawyers before.

>70 2wonderY: A comment was made on another discussion board with respect to the 45 page indictment. The poster wondered if this was Jack Smith's dry sense of humor - 45 pages for #45.

He wasn't looking at criminal liability before. He also had the advantage of buffaloing people by taking them to court because he was a 'billionaire' and presumably had the deep pockets to bleed people dry in court.

Now that lawyers know better than to take him on as a client for 'prestige', he's having to put money on the table before a law firm will even consider taking the case. There's no prestige in having him as a client now, as everyone knows he won't shut up, he doesn't pay, and he'll throw you under the bus as soon as you don't satisfy his whims.

So he's set up super PACs which will pay the bills. Every cent which the MAGA people send to these super PACs is still one cent less that someone else will get.

I doubt that Trump's child-like cult followers will ever get to the point in their lives where they realize that they have merely been pawns in a well-orchestrated con that is meant to keep Trump in the national spotlight and money rolling into his bank accounts. Trump ~ the narcissist ~ is enjoying every minute of his Septuagenarian decade. Historians are going to need the rest of the century to properly dissect this Trump era.

>76 Molly3028:

Boom times for the PhD industry!

Main street in front of Fulton County courthouse to shut down next week
WSBTV.com News Staff | August 03, 2023

...Pryor Street will close between MLK and Mitchell streets starting on August 7 at 5 a.m. and the road will remain closed through August 18...

...No public parking will be allowed anywhere on the perimeter of the courthouse on either side of the street...

The announcement comes ahead of a planned decision by a special grand jury on whether or not to indict former President Donald Trump.

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/main-street-front-fulton-county-courthouse-shut...

Trump told Pence that he was too honest. Pence and Abe Lincoln, the founding member of the Grand Old Party, apparently have honesty in common.

The D.C. magistrate judge laid down the law to Donald Trump in his arraignment for the Jan. 6 crimes yesterday. Told him bluntly she'd stick him in custody if he committed any more crimes--laid down some rules for him to abide by. Also set the day for the trial judge on August 28. D.C. is not going to be friendly to him either the justices or the people likely to make up the jury. Trump's lawyers seem to be resting his case entirely on his first amendment rights. Well he doesn't have any other options so you go with what you got. I think he's fucked. This will be done I'm thinking well before November 2024. He's apparently using a lot of his small and large donor money for his legal fees which will definitely cut into his ability to run a campaign and since many of his small donors only give to him the rest of the Republican field will be on their own and there are a number of states already where the state republican committees are completely broke. He's also paying legal fees for others......and he's great danger of losing some of the others to a deal that DOJ lawyers will offer them. It's interesting for instance that Jack Smith names 6 co-conspirators to Trump in the Jan. 6 case but doesn't charge any of them.....yet. 1) it will be simpler to run against one person instead of 7. Less lawyers and less issues and that should make that trial go much faster. 2) Those 6 in the meanwhile will have something to think about. Take a deal and turn evidence or wait and if Donald is convicted which is pretty damn likely their usefulness will be all done and there will be no deals. They could be looking at 10, 20, 30 years when they are charged but if Donald goes down they're going down too and maybe the next time a Republican becomes POTUS (and right now and for the foreseeable future being MAGA is not going to get any of them there....the greatest possibility is with Trump which isn't good to begin with but the others are pretty much shills and shills never excite anyone) maybe they'll get pardoned. Maybe they'll all stick it out but 5 guys and one woman pretty much all lawyers I don't know and they're kind of competing against each other....'what happens if so and so flips and I'm left holding the bag'. It's not like any of them are going to be very popular in prison. Even if they don't flip they're likely to get stuck in with the rats and child molesters and even somewhat isolated shit still happens to those kind of people. They've all live pretty soft privileged lives.....some of them have put other people away. They're not made for it. If a prison term is how your life plays out that's not very nice.

>79 Molly3028: I'm not sure that I'm willing to say that Pence is particularly honest, even if Trump claimed he is. He may be "too honest" from Trump's point of view, but that leaves a lot of room before he gets up into the sunlit uplands of having actual integrity.

>81 kiparsky:

On one very important day in America's history, Pence decided that honesty was the best policy. Now, he is using his actions on that one day to advance his dead-as-a-doornail presidential campaign.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/denied-judge-shoots-down-trump-attempt-to-delay-de...
DENIED: Judge Shoots Down Trump Attempt to Delay Deadline For Protective Order Response

5 p.m. Monday remains the deadline!

>83 Molly3028: For me looking at what the Magistrate Judge told Trump the other day that kind of qualifies as reason to take him into custody. If he's not going to behave don't put up with anymore of his bullshit.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/technical-violation-of-the-constitution-is-not-a-vio...
‘Technical Violation of the Constitution is Not a Violation of Criminal Law’: Here Are the 5 Wildest Moments From Trump Lawyer’s Sunday Show Blitz

1. Lauro Claims There Was a “Peaceful” Transfer of Power
2. “Mike Pence Will Be One of Our Best Witnesses”
3. “A Technical Violation of the Constitution is Not a Violation of Criminal Law”
4. Trump’s calls to overturn the election were simply “aspirational”
5. Lauro Calls for Trial to Take Place in West Virginia Because It’s a More “Diverse Venue” than Washington D.C.

***
#3 ~ Do this dude's law school professors want to take any credit for what their former student said today??? Trump has found a modern-day Roy Cohn to defend the indefensible.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/dan-abrams-now-that-jack-smith-has-indicted-trump-on...
Dan Abrams: Now That Jack Smith Has Indicted Trump on Georgia Conduct, Fani Willis Should ‘Walk Away’

***
Dan is dead wrong. Trump must be tried in Georgia to make sure if he is convicted in Georgia a presidential pardon will not give him and his cult followers what they so desperately want. Also, Dan's guest had a perfect take on the situation ~ don't commit a crime in a place you prefer not to be tried in.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/my-blood-ran-cold-ex-trump-official-horrified-by-c...
‘My Blood Ran Cold’: Ex-Trump Official Horrified By ‘Criminal Plot’ to Have Military ‘Turn Their Guns on Civilians to Facilitate a Losing Candidate’

Carroll begins by writing, “As a veteran, my blood ran cold reading two particular passages in special counsel Jack Smith’s indictment.” He goes on to explain that in those two specific paragraphs, Smith details how then-President Trump and the team of election-denying lawyers surrounding him laid out an “autocratic plan to remain in power” that would “make the U.S. military choose between subservience to civilian control or refusing to undertake an anti-democratic domestic political role.”

https://www.mediaite.com/news/maggie-haberman-team-drops-bombshell-trump-electio...
Maggie Haberman Team Drops Bombshell Trump Election Plot Memo To ‘Deprive Biden Of Electoral Votes’

One new piece of evidence revealed in that indictment was a memo by Trump attorney Kenneth Chesebro outlining the strategy to keep Trump in power.

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-chutkan-2663525201/
Trump lawyer dropped 'loser' argument after DC Judge Chutkan rolled her eyes and put 'her face in her hands': Guardian reporter

According to the reporter who was in Chutkan's courtroom on Friday for the start of a trial where the judge laid down the law about how she will conduct his trial on charges related to his attempts to subvert the 2020 election, the judge at one point put her face in her hands as accusations were made against the Joe Biden administration for "coming after" the ex-president.

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/watch-trump-gives-ominously-vague-reply-when-c...
WATCH: Trump Gives Ominously Vague Reply When Confronted About Overturning Election at Iowa Fair

“President Trump, did you intend to overturn the 2020 election?” a reporter asked him as he pressed through the throngs at the livestock pavilion.

Trump paused pointedly and replied, “You know the answer to that,” as he glanced back over his shoulder.

***
Crowds gather around the Trumpster. Iowa's citizens continue to gulp down gallons of the Kool-Aid. Yes, I did it for my legions of adoring cult followers is what was roaming around between his two ears.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/atlanta-prosecutors-have-texts-directly-tying-trumps...
JUST IN: Georgia Prosecutors Have Texts Directly Linking Trump Team to Breach of Voting Machines, Per CNN Exclusive

Atlanta prosecutors working with Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis have reportedly obtained text messages directly linking Donald Trump’s legal team to the breach of voting machine technology at a local elections office.

NOT LEGALLY CRIMINAL, BUT A LOOK INTO THE ROTTING CORE OF THE TRUMP DYNASTY.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/ivana-trump-s-neglected-golf-club-grave-s...
Ivana Trump's Neglected Golf Club Grave Site Becomes 'Barely Visible' Surrounded By Overgrown Grass and Weeds

***
Ivana had a despicable husband and three children who have followed in dad's disgraceful footsteps.

Donald Trump and *18 others* have been criminally charged in Georgia:

Rudy Giuliani
John Eastman
Mark Meadows
Kenneth Chesebro
Jeffrey Clark
Jenna Ellis
Ray Smith III
Robert Cheeley
Michael Roman
David Shafer
Shawn Tresher Still
Stephen Lee
Harrison Floyd
Trevian Kutti
Sidney Powell
Cathleen Latham
Scott Hall
Misty Hampton

- Kyle Griffin (MSNBC) @kylegriffin1 | 11:05 PM · Aug 14, 2023
______________________________________

98 p indictment:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23909543-23sc188947-criminal-indictment

>93 margd: Also 30 unindicted co-conspirators. Whether any of those will be charged later remains to be seen. Some speculations of who---Lindsey Graham, Michael Flynn, Patrick Byrne (Overstock), Doug Logan (Cyber Ninjas), Lin Wood, Jim Penrose (former NSA agent works for Sidney Powell), Phil Waldron (retired US Army Colonel), Bernard Kerik, Charles Bundren, Paul Maggio, Catherine Freiss etc. etc. etc.

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-promises-to-present-an-irrefutable-report-w...
Trump Promises to Present an ‘Irrefutable REPORT’ Within the Next Week That Will Exonerate Him and Prove 2020 Georgia Vote Was ‘Rigged’

>95 Molly3028: Rudy use to wave all kinds of papers around. Just wait until the world finds out. It's all here and Lindell is another one. All kinds of proof but they never show a thing. Trump was 0 for 70 in the courts. Even judges he appointed expected some kind of evidence if they were going to take it serious but he had no evidence then and he is empty now. I'm not expecting any evidence from Trump but a part of me would still like to see anything of relevance. He lost and then he started a fire that's still burning in the minds of millions of people who love him. This has caused untold destruction for the last two and half + years.

There's a maximum minimum of 5 years for him and the other 18 if he's convicted in Georgia on a RICO charge. There is no pardon possible from the Governor of Georgia even if he were inclined. If he's convicted he has to do at least 5. What's more Georgia is a state where the parole board brings pardons to the Governor anyway. The Governor on his own can't do it. There is only one way to cut those 5 years short....you die. Of those other 18 who's paying for their lawyers? Jack Smith wants to stop Trump using campaign donations to pay for his legal fees and there's a pretty good likelihood that's going to stop because it's well......illegal. How many of those 18 want to go down with the ship and spend the next 5 years (and maybe longer) in a cage when there's a lifeboat available for someone to get off? I have to think that someone or two or three are going to be thinking better get on that lifeboat before someone beats me to it.

>95 Molly3028: In that case, he should be ready to go to trial NEXT WEEK with no delays. He's had plenty of time to get his story straight, now let's see the pudding.

>96 lriley: Of those other 18 who's paying for their lawyers?

Trump's not paying for Jenna Ellis--she is a DeSantis supporter. Even more reason for her to talk if she ha anything on him.

>95 Molly3028: Some say Trump's report released now, publicly and not in court, is nothing more than jury tampering. (Lock him up!)

>98 margd: Anyway the idea that Trump is going to deliver a paper of his own is kind of hilarious. Any paper he writes is almost certainly ghostwritten. The other thing is he's never very careful in what he says. He's such a narcissist that what he thinks might help him is going to end up being more ammo for the prosecution unless it's vetted by his lawyers and even that anymore isn't a sure thing as he's screwed so many lawyers in the past in one way or another that the best and better are not options anymore.

5 years though is no joke and it's likely for some that it'll be longer even if they get a pardon. When you're up further in age it's really bad. It's nuts to go down for that lunkhead. All 18 should be thinking about getting off the train.

>100 lriley: It's nuts to go down for that lunkhead.

Is that a quote from Melania's memoir?

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/trumps-lawyers-ask-him-to-cancel-press-conference-on...
Trump’s Lawyers Ask Him to Cancel Press Conference on Georgia Election Before He Makes Matters Worse, Jon Karl Reports

Donald Trump’s legal advisors reportedly implored him to drop his plans for a press conference on his Georgia voter fraud claims, because they think it will only make him more legally vulnerable to the charges against him.

***
No one can control Trump because he doesn't have an off switch for 19 hours a day, and he knows it only takes one person to hang a verdict.

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-cancels-press-conference-election-004326025.html
Trump cancels press conference on election fraud claims, citing attorneys' advice

***
Trump apparently decided to listen to the lawyers who are getting the money Trump's clueless cult followers gleefully hand over to The Don.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/maga-fans-are-more-likely-to-trust-information-com...
MAGA Fans are More Likely to Trust Information Coming from Trump Than from Their Own Friends and Family: CBS Poll

Among those who voted for the former president in 2020, 71 percent believe what Trump tells them is true, while just 63 percent consider information from their own family to be true.

***
These people are members of a cult led by a celebrity in the Internet era. This poll should not be a surprise to anyone. As Trump said, he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, and he wouldn't lose a vote. This is a very precarious time for our fragile democracy.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/breaking-mark-meadows-contradicts-trumps-classifie...
BREAKING: Mark Meadows Contradicts Trump’s Classified Documents Defense

Meadows, according to ABC News, told investigators that he could not recall Trump ever ordering or discussing declassify broad amounts of classified materials before leaving office — a claim which Trump and his defenders have made repeatedly. Meadows further stated that he was not aware of any order from Trump ordering the automatic declassification of material taken from the Oval Office, ABC News reports.

>106 Molly3028: Meadows here had a choice of lying or not lying. Why put himself in even more jeopardy? The idea of any POTUS broadly declassifying documents is pretty much absurd. There's a process with declassifying anything.....going to the agencies that classified each and every document you plan to declassify is part of it. Trump was always talking out of his ass on this and caught on tape later showing classified Iran war plans to people who didn't have clearance pretty much proves that he knows that his defense is bs.

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-set-to-have-mugshot-taken-when-he-surrender...
BREAKING: Trump Mugshot Released By Atlanta Fulton County Jail

***
Trump's practiced pose says I expect to see this face on t-shirts and flags from sea to shining sea PDQ.

>108 Molly3028: There goes a happy camper. LOL.

Pretty much anyone else charged with a crime in the United States will have to be fingerprinted and have his/her mugshot taken. A high % will then be remanded into custody. 4 indictments so far and this is his first time he gets a taste of this.....and instead of letting him get away once again he finally got a dose of reality. If he's convicted he should go away like any other of his co-conspirators will if they're convicted.....like many of those who were charged and put away for what they did on Jan. 6, 2021. The Justice System has actually been giving him break after break like he is better than other Americans. It's two-tieredness has actually been on display up until now to his benefit.

https://www.the-express.com/news/us-news/109786/donald-trump-mar-a-lago-ownershi...
Donald Trump seemingly transferred Mar A Lago estate to his son before his arrest

Documents state the property is owned by an organization, and the owner of that organization is Donald Trump Jr.

***
His lawyers must have suggested that this transaction would be a wise move. This may explain why Jr. and his gal tried to get into the after-debate get-together ~ they had been AWOL lately.

**********

AND

I don't know what the hell is going on at LT. This post does not show up unless I sign in. This crap has been happening a lot this summer. If my posts are listed, they show up many hours after I enter it.

Trump’s bad twin ~ the mob boss ~ showed up at the jail in GA on Thursday!

>107 lriley: The idea of any POTUS broadly declassifying documents is pretty much absurd.

I disagree. When Trump tweeted that the Russian investigation documents were declassified, that should have made them declassified. The president is the boss; he makes the procedures, he doesn't have to follow them.

Trump was always talking out of his ass on this

Well, yeah. Trump never bothers to dot his i's or cross his t's.

>112 prosfilaes: The president is the boss; he makes the procedures, he doesn't have to follow them.

That comes very close to suggesting that a president has absolute power and is not subject to any laws, rules, regulations, etc. While it may be true in some particular instances, I think it's a statement that would need nuancing and unpacking.

The executive branch has to follow the rules set by the legislative branch. Even when they are allowed to create their own rules by the legislature they have to follow rules about how they do that

>112 prosfilaes: The president is an executive, not a king. She executes the laws, she does not make them.

In this case, there are a lot of regulations about declassification, which a president _might_ be able to get around with an executive order - that would be an interesting case to consider, if it ever came up. In this case, it didn't come up. He just didn't actually declassify anything, or even attempt to do so, so there's nothing to talk about here.

This Ramaswamy seems to think that Pence on January 6 had the power (he didn’t) to hold the election hostage until congress agreed to force states to have single day voting, paper ballots etc. right then and there on that day (a canard of right wing grievances that they use as a buffer to explain away the fact that they lost by over 7 million votes) and that then Trump would have signed off on the election and there would have been the transfer of power and everything would have been good. All of these notions of his are pure fantasy and/or projection on his part to give air and space to the insurrectionists from the Jan. 6 rioters to the coup plotting lawyers all the way up the ladder to Trump himself. Vivek is a very glib individual who is selling a load of bullshit to the gullible. It doesn’t seem important to him that the coup was already in motion and the riot already going on when Pence was certifying Biden’s election but who gives a shit about timelines when you have a pack of lies to sell people 2 and a half years later.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/it-was-my-decision-trump-claims-full-ownership-for...
‘It Was My Decision’: Trump Claims Full Ownership for Directing the Effort to Overturn the 2020 Election

“You know who I listen to? Myself,” Trump said. “I saw what happened. I watched that election, and I thought the election was over at 10 o’clock in the evening… My instincts are a big part of it. That’s been the thing that’s gotten me to where I am, my instincts. But I also listen to people. There are many lawyers. I could give you many books. There are books that are written on how the election was rigged.”

***
Trump has apparently decided that a hung-jury ending will occur after repeated martyr role-playing presentations are made by him in interviews and in court. Sadly, the cult leader is most likely correct in that assumption.

I expected hung juries for all of the January 6th trials and I was wrong, so there's hope for Trump's trials

Trump Privately Frets He Could Be Headed to Prison

Would he be sent to a “club fed” style prison — or a “bad” one? Would he have Secret Service protection? And what would they make him wear? Those are some of the questions Donald Trump is asking his lawyers as his many trials loom

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-prison-conviction-...

>119 2wonderY: Angling for special treatment is how you can really piss your fellow inmates off. My guess is he wouldn't be going to anything real hardcore but he won't be going to a country club prison either and the same with his co-conspirators. In Georgia with the RICO deals there is a minimum 5 years and no one at least at the moment---not the Governor or anyone else can pardon until that minimum is served. A POTUS can't pardon someone convicted by a state either. So DeSantis becoming POTUS wouldn't help him at all. If that goes first he's going to be sitting in a Georgia prison not a federal penitentiary. I suspect he's not going to be with the general population one way or the other. Too much of a target and if something happened to him vis-a-vis prison violence there would be an uproar that would nobody any good. I imagine he will wear whatever clothing the other inmates wear. He will be served whatever food the other inmates will be served. Get whatever visitation rights other inmates have. He won't have a phone, a twitter (X) or truth social account if other inmates don't have the same privileges. On the secret service detail that's a good question.....if he does get that he might get McDonald's every day or access to some other things secondarily through them. For what it's worth and contrary to the opinions of slews of people (particularly conservatives) the prepared for consumption in prison dining halls is almost always shit.....a lot of inmates depend on prison commissaries to stock up on stuff like Ramen noodles, chips etc. It beats whatever else they're being fed.

>119 2wonderY:

The questions remain: a) using pre-trial motions, how long can he delay the trials; and b) having drawn out the proceedings as much as possible, how long can his team draw out the appeals process on the first conviction (whichever case that is)?

He's 77; at some point, actual incarceration becomes moot.

>120 lriley: No make-up, hair dye, hairdresser, no control over scales? Golf course? Power?

>122 margd: Even if he keeps his Secret Service detail he'll have to give up a couple things. Also showers and toilet flushing.....he's going to have to learn to live with the water limitations.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/24/donald-trump-supporters-rally-io...
‘I like him even better now’: Trump’s true believers keep the faith

.....“He had gas prices low and the highest employment rate for all minorities, for Blacks and women, which he doesn’t get credit for. He got rid of the bad guys; he killed two terrorists. He honored our military, which is very near and dear to me. He did a lot of great things for the country and that’s why I’m here.”.....

***
BUT Blacks were harassed everywhere they went by "Karens" among many others who didn't want middle class Blacks living in their neighborhoods and shopping in their local stores. Trump added 8T to the national debt. Trump insulted wounded military members. Trump's clueless cult followers have tunnel vision, and they continue to enjoy the Kool-Aid.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/just-in-judge-rules-donald-trump-defrauded-banks-i...
JUST IN: Judge Rules Donald Trump Defrauded Banks, Insurance Companies In NY AG’s Civil Suit

The suit is now set to go to a non-jury trial starting October 2nd, in which Engoron will decide on the remaining allegations in James’s suit and on the penalty Trump and his company may pay.

>125 Molly3028: Hope Michael Cohen is being careful...

"I will remind everyone that this investigation only started after Michael Cohen, the former lawyer, his former lawyer, testified before Congress and shed light on this misconduct." –Letitia James

https://www.mediaite.com/crime/just-in-trumps-motion-seeking-judges-recusal-deni...
JUST IN: Trump’s Motion Seeking Judge’s Recusal DENIED

Former President Donald Trump’s motion seeking the recusal of Judge Tanya Chutkan from his federal criminal case in Washington, D.C. was denied on Wednesday evening.

>124 Molly3028: He had gas prices low and the highest employment rate for all minorities, for Blacks and women, which he doesn’t get credit for

Right. For one, there's questions about how much control any president has for either of those things. If you look at the unemployment numbers, they're pretty much a straight line downward since the recovery from the end of the recession in 2007/2008. Secondly, they always quote gas prices when COVID-19 crashed them, at the point when unemployment rate for everyone, especially minorities, skyrocketed.

Georgia Republicans suspend state senator who wants to impeach DA (Willis) for indicting Trump

https://apnews.com/article/colton-moore-suspended-georgia-senate-republicans-tru...

Judge issues gag order after Trump’s comments on court clerk in civil trial (Guardian)

The judge overseeing Donald Trump’s civil fraud trial issued a gag order on Tuesday after the former president made comments about the judge’s clerk. “Consider this statement a gag order forbidding all parties from posting, emailing or speaking publicly about any of my staff,” the judge, Arthur Engoron, said on Tuesday afternoon. “Personal attacks on members of my court staff are unacceptable, inappropriate and I will not tolerate them in any circumstances. Failure to abide by this order will result in serious sanctions”...

Trump's entire financial apparatus being on trial is a big step toward taking him down. Essentially this boat of his has been hit with a couple torpedoes below the waterline and is going to flounder as a sitting duck until it sinks.....and there are more torpedoes on the way.

>131 lriley:

We can hope they find their mark. I anticipate seeing a real estate empire collapse like a controlled explosion, ideally with a little collateral damage.

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-shared-nuclear-secrets-with-foreign-billion...
Trump Shared Nuclear Secrets With Foreign Billionaire Who Told Dozens, ‘Shocked’ Sources Tell ABC

Sources told ABC News that Trump initially shared the secrets with an Australian billionaire who was a member of Trump’s Palm Beach club Mar-a-Lago. The businessman, Anthony Pratt, then allegedly shared with “more than a dozen foreign officials, several of his own employees, and a handful of journalists.”

Jack Smith is looking into this.

***
Loose lips sink ships!

>133 Molly3028: Fun party game: ask a Republican what should be done with a government employee who leaks military secrets and endangers American service members and American security.

Weirdly, they seem to have a hard time coming up with an answer lately.

There is a history of what does happen to people who've stolen or passed documents or disseminated information from secret documents to foreign actors. That history is in a nutshell long long prison sentences pretty much without exception when those people are caught. I kind of remember Trump saying shit about what he would do to Assange or that other actor (forget his name but Assange, Manning and that guy were front and center on Prox's profile page as victims of a witch-hunt or at least they were for a long time on his page) if the United States got their hands on them. I wouldn't say Trump is just like them just because I think what Donald has done is a lot worse and because some of the stuff at least from Manning needed to see the light of day.

>135 lriley: Not advocating execution, but US used to take stealing and sharing intelligence VERY seriously:

"Julius Rosenberg and Ethel Rosenberg were an American married couple who were convicted of spying for the Soviet Union, including providing top-secret information about American radar, sonar, jet propulsion engines, and nuclear weapon designs." (Wikipedia)

>136 margd: I was kind of thinking in terms of people like Aldrich Ames and Jonathan Pollard. Trump as a 77 year old former POTUS is looking at spending the rest of life beyond bars just for the Georgia thing. That case on its own comes with 5 year minimum---no chance of pardon and his being the ringleader of it would argue that he'd serve much more than that. I think as a nation we should get beyond the death penalty altogether so I wouldn't advocate for that either. Just the momentum of the cases moving forward and the severity of the charges doesn't leave much leeway at all for Trump considering that others are there with him and that past sentences for such crimes call for long term incarceration so that for the appearance of justice to be served at all there's no other remedy. I actually thought his purchasing of a gun---another illegal act might be to use on himself to avoid that day.

As in the NY trial going on now people are jumping off the ship to save themselves such as McConney and maybe even Weisselberg who's schedule to testify on Tuesday. There are a number of Georgia witness including an indicted co-conspirator but also several unindicted co-conspirators/fake electors and one of the more famous election denying MAGA lawyers who have flipped on him there. A worker at his club in Florida has also flipped. I expect more to follow and he is in a world of 91 felonies shit with his business about to be destroyed. Looking at the pathetic spectres that Giuliani and Lindell have become.

These people though to me represent the potential for a fascistic police state and that without any doubt to my mind would be their aim if they ever came back into power. They represent a danger way beyond the norm of what only a short time ago was just a two party political system locked up by a political establishment that pretty much ignored popular needs. I don't believe if Donald ever got back to power he would relinquish it under any circumstance. I think we would have our own version of Putin, Kim, Orban however that played out. He's dragged the greater part of the Republican Party into a mindset where maintaining power is a be all end all and maintaining our democracy and electoral system no longer seem simportant to them.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/breaking-sidney-powell-to-plead-guilty-in-georgia-...
WATCH: Ex-Trump Lawyer Sidney Powell Pleads Guilty in Election Crimes Trial

***
BIG get for Trump's prosecutors going forward!

>138 Molly3028: apparently Chesebro was offered the same. Both he and Powell are lawyers they should be able to foresee where things are going. It's the Titanic and the captain is going to go down with the ship along with all the crew and passengers who won't get on the limited spaced lifeboat. Chesebro must know he's doomed. It's not understandable unless maybe the idea of becoming a right wing martyr appeals to him....I can't say.

That's Powell and Scott Hall now among the indicted who have flipped and both got pretty much the same deal. Misdemeanors--no jail time....better talk and not lie or else. I think anyone else who flips is going to get pretty much the same deal. Unless the felonies are taken away you're on the hook for a minimum 5 years no chance of pardon or parole from any avenue. It's a hell of an incentive to have that taken away for someone who decides to flip.

>138 Molly3028:

So, for us non-Americans, is a guilty plea in Georgia likely to lead to disbarment in other states where she's licenced?

>140 librorumamans: I believe Sidney Powell is admitted to the bar only in Texas. She survived a disbarment attempt this past February, brought against her by the Texas bar association. My guess is that now that she has pleaded guilty, the Texas bar association will attempt to have her disbarred again. But it's Texas, so who knows what will happen.

Trump co-defendant Kenneth Chesebro strikes plea deal with Georgia prosecutors

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-chesebro-plea-deal-georgia-t...

>142 2wonderY: Dominoes...will Jenna Ellis be next?

In order of who Willis wants most my guess it would go like

1. Trump
2. Giuliani

and

3.4.5. Clark, Eastman and Meadows and it wouldn't shock me if they try to flip at least one of them. Everyone else I think Willis is very open to flipping. I don't think Willis really is out to throw all the rest of them into prison but they'll have to come forward to avoid it.

Looks as if I was correct about Jenna Ellis.

Come on down folks, not many seats left on this bus if you want a much reduced sentence in exchange for your not-quite-as valuable information now!

Rudy?

John?

Mark?

Jeff?

>145 MsMixte: My guess is Fani Willis has two main targets here---Trump and Giuliani---if there was a second subgrouping it is Clark, Eastman and Meadows. Perhaps Chesebro belonged to that group before he made a deal. But anyway I don't think Giuliani is going to be offered any deal. I think she wants to prosecute him. She might even want to put one or two of Clark, Eastman and Meadows in prison too. Pretty much the rest of the indicted I think she'll make deals with.

The other point is passing them on to Jack Smith in the D.C. Jan. 6th case. I have to think that if you've flipped in Georgia you're pretty much going to have flipped on the Jan. 6 case too and both Powell and Chesebro have been indicted for that as well.

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/meadows-reportedly-testifies-that-he-told-trum...
Meadows Reportedly Testifies That He Told Trump Election Wasn’t Stolen

Mark Meadows testified before a grand jury that he told former President Donald Trump that his claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election were “baseless,” but they still tried to overturn the election, according to ABC News.

ABC cited unnamed sources saying the former White House chief of staff testified against Trump in exchange for immunity.

***
This is breaking news on the same day that Trump's former "fixer" testified against him at the NYC penalty phase trial.

>146 lriley: Iriley, I think you are on the right track, although I think Ms Willis might view Giuliani as low hanging (and overly ripe) fruit. He's not really a reliable witness due to his drinking. Meadows has apparently been given immunity by Jack Smith. Eastman is busily trying to defend himself against getting disbarred in California, so if he were to plead guilty in GA, he'd wind up getting disbarred for sure.

The real unknown is Jeff Clark.

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-fined-10000-for-violating-gag-order-again-i...
Trump Fined $10,000 for Violating Gag Order Again in Civil Fraud Case

On Wednesday, during a break in the trial, Trump spoke to reporters and complained “This judge is a very partisan judge, with a person who’s very partisan sitting alongside of him, perhaps even much more partisan than he is.” Engoron called Trump to the witness stand to question him on this, and he imposed a new fine on the former president after determining a violation of his gag order.

Trump and his lawyer claimed that he was making those comments about Michael Cohen, his former fixer who was at the trial to testify against his old boss. Trump’s rants against Cohen have prompted further questions about whether that was also a violation of his gag order.

***
Trump's excuse when he briefly took the stand wasn't accepted by the judge.

Kyle Cheney @kyledcheney | 7:50 PM · Oct 25, 2023: 7:50 PM · Oct 25, 2023:
Senior legal affairs reporter for @POLITICO with a focus on 1/6 aftermath.

JUST IN: Jack Smith says in filing tonight that if Trump tries to mount an “advice of counsel” defense to his Washington, DC charges, it may be complicated by the fact that three of Trump’s lawyer codefendants just pleaded guilty in Georgia. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.258148/gov.uscourts.dcd...
Text excerpt, filing ( https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1717327817149427790/photo/1 )

https://www.mediaite.com/news/just-in-ivanka-trump-ordered-to-testify-in-person-...
JUST IN: Ivanka Trump Ordered to Testify in Person in Her Father’s NY Fraud Trial

According to ABC News, Judge Arthur Engoron stated from the bench on Friday “I want to see her in person. That is how we prefer testimony.” Ivanka Trump was not present, and her lawyer Bennet Moskowitz tried unsuccessfully to have her subpoena dismissed, arguing that the reasoning behind making her show up in person “falls on its face.”

Moskowitz argued that since Ivanka Trump has not worked nor lived in New York since 2017, having her appear in court was “a bridge too far.” But State Attorney Kevin Wallace said her position in the Trump Organization as well as her ownership of New York property makes the request legit. And Judge Engoron agreed, adding, “A trial is a search for the truth, and the law is entitled to every person’s evidence.”

Strange that he seems immune to criminal charges on instigating an insurrection attempt; however...

"Federal appeals court says Trump is not immune from civil lawsuits over Jan. 6 Capitol attack" (CBS News), https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-not-immune-jan-6-civil-lawsuits-federal-appea...

The fifth thread is now available.

>2 librorumamans: hahahaha