BOOK CHALLENGE! RERE'S.

READ 75!!!!

1-19:

song of solomon - toni morrison
final harvest - poems by emily dickinson
the great gatsby - f scott fitzgerald
giovanni's room - james baldwin
to the lighthouse - virginia woolf
the old man and the sea - hemingway
fences - august wilson
the jungle - upton sinclair
eat pray love - elizabeth gilbert
invisible cities - italo calvino
passing - nella larsen
the bell jar - sylvia plath
the collected short stories of ernest hemingway
reporting iraq: an oral history of the war by the journalists who covered it
the vintage book of contemporary chinese fiction
the awakening - kate chopin
jazz - toni morrison
animal dreams - barbara kingsolver
on beauty - zadie smith

Welcome to the group.....we are an inquisitive bunch so be prepared to leave your thoughts on your reads!!!

I have also read Jazz and The Awakening recently. Did you enjoy them?

I loved The Awakening - I'm actually currently translating it almost line by line into Chinese for a personal improvement project (and so that my mom can enjoy it too)! I did feel that both The Awakening and Jazz took a while to really get started for me, though. I found the endless descriptions of the city almost extraneous, didn't really feel they contributed that much to the book. I have to say that I prefer Toni Morrison's Song of Solomon and Beloved to Jazz.

Thank you for welcoming me to the group!

On another note, I just finished Margaret Atwood's Oryx and Crake, thoughts pending.

FIRST THOUGHTS: i loved the story, and atwood's storytelling is suspenseful and poetically elegant, but crake and jimmy (as opposed to snowman) seemed too predictable and one-dimensional in their arguments. "numbers people" versus "words people," what a juvenile binary, that facet of crake as the voice of scientific intellect and jimmy as champion for arts and words seemed simplistic in comparison to the muddled oryx - or perhaps i'm simply mistaking mystery for complexity here, because i'm not sure that oryx says much at all beyond clarifying (or dismissing) her past...

#3, I am in awe of anyone who translates anything into Chinese as a personal improvement project. I am happy when I clean out the garage. That's a truly wonderful thing to do and for a great cause. I hope your mother enjoys the book as much as you did.

As to Toni Morrison.....I have not yet read either Song of Solomon or Beloved. I have read Paradise which I also enjoyed a great deal. She surprises me. I started both books skeptically and then was won over very quickly by them both. I will be reading Beloved in one of my next two TBR stacks. Looking forward to it.

Yeah, I hope she does too. We keep on running into little problems because my Chinese ain't that great (still learning at school) but her English isn't either, so we'll come across a word and I won't have any idea how to economically translate it where she'll have no idea what it means. 'Befurbelowed' held us up for a while, as did 'impose' (in the sense 'the imposed threat'). Oh well, at least I'm improving my facility with the language?

I really liked Beloved, definitely recommend it. Happy reading! Beloved and Song of Solomon, and now Jazz, are actually the only Toni Morrison I've read. Did you prefer Paradise to Jazz?

21. Forgot to mention when I finished reading it - finally finished One Hundred Years of Solitude maybe a week ago. I don't understand the hype. Inventive but ultimately unsatisfying for me. Marquez was adept at pinpointing that constant cycle and perpetual recycle of history, by which I also mean I might have opened the book a hundred pages later by accident and not caught my mistake.

Love in the time of Cholera and Chronicle of a Death Foretold are still on my TBR pile, though.

But I might not get to them for a while. Since finishing One Hundred Years of Solitude, I've fallen into a sort of a deep, sickly apathy in regards to reading. The book I'm currently reading has been taking me far more than the two-days-a-book limit I set for myself, and it's not especially difficult to read, nor is it especially long. I've just been completely disinclined to look at letters. But I'm slowly regaining my appetite, so maybe I will still reach 75 books this year, despite my late start and despite having only completed 21 at the middle of June.

22. Being in this sort of a weird mood however is conducive to me reading collections of short stories. I randomly picked up The Best American Short Stories 1989, as compiled by Margaret Atwood, and there were a few good stories in there and a few stories I've seen before. I'm fond of Mavis Gallant's "The Concert Party," and there were definitely more I can't think of the names of right now.

The Awakening - after two weeks of reading each page three times, we are now 90 pages from the finish!

As to prefering Jazz to Paradise, I don't know that I can compare. They felt so different, almost as though a different author wrote them. They both had passages/sections which were superb and others which bogged down a bit. I think I liked the concept of Paradise better and liked the story somewhat better, so I guess that settles it.

All right, I'll definitely check out Paradise then! Thank you.

23. Just finished The Storyteller: A Novel, for maybe the third time. Will now quickly jot down incoherent musings that will almost definitely disappoint me in the morning.

thoughts: This book definitely improved upon rereading - I kept on seeing little things that I hadn't noticed before. Unfortunately, I also got really sick of all the... not reiteration, quite, but there were no real surprises in plot and certain predictable plot twists were indicated more times than necessary. I wouldn't recommend this book to anyone who reads only for plot and mystery and suspense, because the entire book essentially fleshes out a development already explicated in the first chapter. It's the observations and connections you draw in retracing the path that are worthwhile.

24. Interpreter of Maladies. I heartily disliked The Namesake - fine for the first half, terrible for the second - but I was engrossed with most stories in this collection. Even the last grew on me, although I still feel it is less well-written and inventive than the rest of the storie; its quiet indication of the peace that could be found in arranged marriages was surprising and pleasant, and its treatment of the theme of universal isolation that runs through several of the other stories was also subtle and interesting. My favorite stories might have to be "A Temporary Matter," "Mrs. Sen's," the title story...

second thoughts: but this collection of stories is still not yet my favorite. None of the stories were bad, but only one or two were outstanding. If asked to choose between the 200 pages of Interpreter of Maladies and the first 200 of The Namesake, I would likely opt for the latter. Lahiri traces questions of alienation and outsidership well, and these stories are generally tightly-crafted and the prose at times passably poetic, but somehow not one story leaps out at me as astounding. And ultimately, is anything new or original really said? will have to think more about this later. god i love writing comments directly after reading the text, my thoughts are always confused and inconclusive.

Clear as mud!!

I have The Namesake, which I picked up after watching the movie. I have not yet read it but will forward on my thoughts if I get to it this year.

I haven't seen the movie yet - is it worth it? I rarely see movies that do their book counterparts justice, so a movie that works well on its own rights is enough for me.

25. The Overcoat and Other Tales of Good and Evil - not very impressed with the first story (whatever that was), or the second, or the third, or... but "The Overcoat" itself was pretty great. I actually ended up doing some impromptu oral translation for this story for the benefit of mi madre because it was JUST THAT GOOD. Although I felt the strength of the story really waned at the end. Anyway, I've been wanted to read this book since I read The Namesake - it felt uncomfortable coming across so many references to a work without having ever read it myself - and I'm happy I picked it up.

26. My Life and Hard Times. Light, easy, and amusing. His grandfather definitely reminded me of certain of my relatives. A good 'between books' book to get one out of a reading slump. Why is it that memoirs are rarely this short anymore?

27. Lolita - too long by half! I loved the entire first bit of it, but even before Lolita's disappearance, the book is already draggin'. Nabokov's prose is beautiful - I wish I could write this well in a language other than my own - and there are certain illuminated moments that linger. But he does not know when to be economical, and at times his prose just winds on and on, otiose and empty. Oddly (or perhaps this is a common experience, one intended by the author), I sympathized wholly with poor Humbert Humbert and spent most of the book hating Lo in a general, directionless way, even as I recognize HH's gross rationalizations for his inappropriate behavior, Lo's victimhood, etc. At least my reaction has improved - at Dolores' age, I read a few scattered pages of the book and experienced instead a slow and smothering jealousy.

28. The Epic of Gilgamesh. Quick and educational. Utanapishtim's relation of the Flood story is especially interesting.

too tired to say much more... i've been sick all day! which is actually not as conducive to reading as you might think it to be...

Msg#13, I really enjoyed the movie made from The Namesake, though it wasn't a completely well put together movie. Some of the characters and storylines portrayed in the movie were extremely moving and others did not connect at all. The young man who played the main character was sometimes right on and other times trying to be too cute. All in all, I enjoyed the movie though. It was made by a director/produce (whose name I have forgotten) who was involved in many movies dealing with India and Indian people, including Bend it Like Beckham, Vanity Fair, and Monsoon Weeding.

As to movies doing justice to their book counterpoints, I agree that the experiences are often different. But I have grown to enjoy these differences, as movies often bring me to books and vice versa. I enjoy the reinterpretation and visual thoughts of books and try not to compare the two so closely.

Book #27, I recently read Lolita also and loved it, probably more than you did. The one thing I am curious about here though is you stated sympathy for Humbert. One of the reason I so enjoyed the book is that it represent a literary vision of a pedophile's rationalization and minimization of his own criminal behavior. One of the mistakes I think often made in reading this book is taking Humbert's rantings as truly depicting Lolita's behavior. Nabakov's insight into the mind of the pedophile was eerily accurate. Having explained my take on the book though, I am really eager to hear how you came to sympathize with Humbert, as you may have picked up on something that I was unable to.

All right, I'll give the movie a go! I tend to appreciate books and the movies made from them as separate entities, but I find that one often loses pivotal subtext in reshaping the rich textual imagery intended by the author into visual input. (I say similar things about graphic novels.) I do love movies, though, and I am always either about to watch a movie or just finished with one.

I agree with your representation of the book as attempting to put forth the rationalizations of a child molester. And of course, Humbert Humbert's perspective is by nature both limited and imperfect, himself truly an unreliable narrator - but then, don't all narrators suffer to some extent from those same flaws? HH is a pedophile and a child molester, but that does not excuse him from humanity. I found myself sympathizing with HH not because I agree with his actions re: Lolita or because I harbor paedophilic peculiarities myself, but because despite unnatural preferences in regards to women and despite his insufferable personality, he is still a man. His self-delusion etc seemed to me to be reminiscent of mental instability, his positioning of himself as the cultured European intellectual faced with the mass of vulgar America was interesting and also made me sympathetic even though I don't find anything particularly repulsive about the US, and I spent the entire novel wishing he would channel his partiality for nymphettes into more constructive and less harmful avenues.

Another potential explanation: the book is written precisely to entrap the reader into sympathizing with HH (use of first-person, subsequent presentation of HH's viewpoint as fact and even morally upright, failure of prose to outright condemn HH or indicate the reprehensibility of HH's actions until the end, etc). As I am reading this book for pleasure, I saw no reason to especially resist the intentions of the author, although I did try to keep note of HH's failings.

I didn't hate the book; it's one of the better books I've read lately, or at least one of the more memorable. However, I did find the entire last half less indispensable than the first.

29. Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norell was purely a puff read. My friend, hearing that I was in a reading slump, immediately recommended that I read something that I wouldn't otherwise and directed me towards this book. It was pretty light reading - well, the book itself was heavy, but the subject matter was frivolous and airy. This book dragged on at places. At others, it was drearily predictable (I'm not going to ruin, um, all the major events of the last 400 pages for you, but TOTALLY CALLED IT). More annoyingly, it seemed to lack substance; nothing of any import was addressed, I didn't feel as if I had learned anything...

HOWEVER, HOWEVER, as a light read, it just hit the trick. As a member of its genre, I thought it held up well. (I'm not going to use the word 'exemplar,' but in comparison with those of its contemporaries in genre that I have read, I did not find it too lacking.) Clarke was imaginative and at times even witty, and I spent much of the book wondering how much was culled from history and archaic suppositions and how much purely from the mind of the author. I loved all the footnotes and tangents. So I did not HATE this book. I enjoyed it, even, at times, long stretches of time, although good god could it have been shorter. And the ending? Hello? WORST ENDING EVER! The last 30 pages - so halfassed!

Okay. Deep breath. I will probably have something totally different to say on the morrow, once the annoyance of the last couple chapters has worn off.

30. Chronicle of a Death Foretold. Much better than One Hundred Years of Solitude, in my opinion!

first thoughts

the evolution of santiago nasar (our perceptions thereof; in his characterizations) throughout the course of the novel is an elevating one
the ambiguity of all events is clear from the onset
i did have a hard time keeping track of characters, but i remember the important ones
is the murder of santiago nasar inevitable or do we have a civic duty to overcome indifference and apathy? what of the question of honor?
is it just me or is garcia marquez's prose less beautiful here than it is in 100 yrs?

i guess those aren't really my thoughts on the book but i have the worst motherfing (not sure on librarything policy re: swearing) in the goddamn world - or at least that it was it feels like

i desperately want to learn spanish and then read this in the original

Hope you didn't think I implied you were sympathetic to HH because of a sense of brotherhood with him, not my intention. Just curious about how your sympathies took root and I must say I agree to some extent. I was with you right to the point where you evaluated his problems as possibly coming from some mental instability. This may sound like semantics but what the character likely suffered from was a more or a group of personality disorders. Nonetheless, I agree that sympathy for him based on these problems is appropriate.

And yes, all narrators are somewhat unreliable.....I am currently reading one of the worst.....the Stranger.

No, of course not! Personality disorders is what I meant, but I felt uncomfortable putting 'mental illness' - 'instability' seems a little more forgiving (probably because on some level it feels more temporary). I always prefer the term instability to illness in reference to myself.

Good luck with The Stranger - I've been meaning to read that!

31. Unearned Pleasures, a collection of short stories. None of them really stood out, although I was more amenable to the last few than the first couple (by which I mean that I liked them more, with two exceptions, but I don't know if that's because they were better stories or because I was in the zone). I've heard good things about Hegi's novels, so I'll probably read one of those and hope the experience is a better one. On the bright side, this book of short stories was very short, so I didn't waste much time!

32. Cane. oh, i tried so hard to like this one, but no. at best i am ambivalent. the poems did not in the least strike my attention and the prose at times seemed pretentious and strained. (but then again, so are many of my friends!) the imagery is generally marvelous though! and toomer calls on a variety of styles, which i think actually works quite well!

okay, my problem here is that i avoided analysis as much as possible. i'm sure it's a gorgeous work re: themes but it didn't work out for me today. especially with my headache WHICH HAS STILL NOT GONE AWAY ARGH.

i already took tylenol, but no. okay, i am no longer thinking about this book, i am putting it out of my mind for now until later.

In order to make 75 books this year, I need to read at least 50 books by the end of the summer. I'm at 32, already behind, and about to go on a vacation. Will I make 75 this year? Between everything I have going on, possibly not.

All this time, I have merely been aiming to read more and of books of consistently better quality than in previous years. But once in a while, my eye strays to the group in which I am keeping track of my readings and I get, yes, I get a little - exhausted.

33. The Art of Reading Poetry

technically this is more of an essay and then lists of poems bloom approves of. i liked it and now i am GOING ON VACATION

Have a wonderful vacation amaranthic! Take some time off, regroup, and come back recharged.

thank you. my vacation was generally great; however, partially as a consequence of the nature of said greatness, i didn't get much reading done.

am v fatigued, health acting up again, therefore i will just list books i read in the interceding absence rather than putting down reactions for each.

34. me talk pretty one day - david sedaris
sedaris is always funny
35. mrs dalloway - virginia woolf
much preferred to the lighthouse, excited for the waves
36. the color of magic - terry pratchett
i had to speedread something i don't usually read in order to get my head cleared up; i can't honestly say that i enjoyed this but it wasn't awful either
37. our hearts were young and gay - cornelia otis skinner and emily kimbrough
ditto above, however i enjoyed this much more
38. the sound and the fury - william faulkner
well, to be honest i have read this one once before in the past - however i was shitfaced beyond belief, so i am willing to count this sober reading on my list of books read this year. as always, faulkner is amazing. i don't think i could ever date anyone who didn't like faulkner, at least some faulkner. anyway, i have long since finished reading the awakening with my mother, and s&f is my newest oral translation project (incredibly difficult, as you might imagine, because of his vocabulary and sentence structures).
39. cyclops - euripides (coleridge translation)
more humor to counter my unstable health - "For if a man rejoice not in his drinking, he is mad; for in drinking it's possible for this to stand up straight, and then to fondle breasts, and to caress well tended locks, and there is dancing withal, and oblivion of woe." - silenus, one of my favorite mythological beings, along with the race named after him or perhaps that he is named after (not sure on chronology)

i feel as if i've read one more book but i can't think of which.

40. a lost lady, willa cather

frederick jackson turner - "the significance of the frontiersman in american history." after reading willa cather's a lost lady, i could not help but return in mind to turner's turn-of-the-century thesis. i can't say i especially enjoyed this book; i didn't dislike it, especially given the touch for simplistic, clear-eyed prose and subtle metaphor that cather evokes, but neither was i particularly excited, especially as i was still dizzied from my fondness for faulkner. friends of mine who were assigned this book as reading in their english classes have in the past condemned the character who gives this book its title, but i find myself celebrating the lost lady who seeks only "life on any terms," surviving the era arbitrarily assigned her through that slow-waxing transformation that parallels that of the town.

41. gorillas among us, dawn prince-hughes
42. arcadia, tom stoppard
i really enjoyed this one.
43. for colored girls who have considered suicide when the rainbow is enuf
i read this one on recommendation from a friend, but i'm not sure that i enjoyed it as much as she did. i really enjoyed the style of writing shange employed, for example her artful abbreviations and slam poetry -esque rhythm, but although the play likely brought a new, formerly marginalized perspective to the stage at time of publishing, i no longer find it as startlingly new or refreshing today. i am positive however that it must be beautifully chilling when seen on stage.
44. the cherry orchard, anton chekhov

these are all rather short, in particular the plays, but i'm counting them anyway. after all, the length of literature does not dictate its quality.

45. she stoops to conquer, oliver goldsmith
light and humorous, but ultimately rather predictable. very quick read. yet another play - it seems that i can't read anything else, as of late.
46. waiting for godot, samuel beckett
now this is a bizarre one. i can't decide whether i liked it or not. it ultimately left me feeling unsettled and claustrophobic, and i had a hard time seeing the 'comedy' part of 'tragicomedy.' (perhaps that would have changed were i to see a performance.) i found this play very thought-provoking, and although at first i was frustrated with what i perceived as a lack of movement in the play, i find that it is this very supposed stasis that lends the play meaning and pathos. (okay, so a bit of an exaggeration there, but close enough - i'm known to be melodramatic.)

here is a random sampling of my notes from reading:

"public works of PUNCHER & WATTMAN - check
estragon: adam --> christ, religious evolution?
purgatory? sisyphean
godot: the possibility of redemption / religious truth?
lucky - 'misery' (pazzo)
*succedanea
gonococcus, spirochet, morpion"

47. three plays by strindberg ("the father," "miss julia," and "easter").

oh... strindberg. this was the first i've read of him. well, what happened for me was, every play would start off beautifully, and i'd be getting more and more excited - "i've found a gorgeous play! it really MEANS something! there is depth to it! and it's naturalistic, yet not contemporary!" and then there would come the inevitable moment where strindberg veers off into preachy cheesiness or abrupt predictability (eleonora in "easter"; the last scene of the same), or a sort of a righteous ... misogyny, for lack of a better word ("the father"), or - well, i just didn't like "miss julia." i can't place my finger on why; it was just something inexplicable and visceral. in general, i didn't really ENJOY these three plays, but neither can i say honestly that i disliked them. perhaps half/half?

48. The Search, Naguib Mahfouz

i was very excited to finally read some mahfouz - all these people had recommended him to me - and for me, his short story / book "the search" was not all it was cracked up to be. i'm still working through why, though. i did enjoy those moments in the text when he reverts to the second person, implicating either an internal monologue or a further distance from the characters and recognition of the artifice (art) of the novel...

49. death of a salesman, arthur miller

yes, yet another play on this list. i liked this. i will probably add further commentary later when i'm not in a daze.

50. the bridge of san luis rey, thornton wilder

I liked this. i actually liked this. and i felt hella cheated when i realized i would not be getting five individual stories (well, somewhat individual stories), but instead simply - three, as four of the individuals were paired up adult and child. but those three were lovely enough. i particularly loved the exposition on the marquesa, although we barely found out about pepita in return. but i think that was intentional. and again with uncle pio, where the crux of his biography centers about perichole and there is barely anything about the boy who becomes his traveling companion on that fateful day; although we hear of pio's affection (or seeming affection) for the children, the little boy seems almost an afternote to perichole in the eyes of pio, irrelevant except for that connection he holds to the one pio loved best... things like that, the balance of power between who gains the privilege of having things said about them and who even in death does not, the periochole periochole perichole (although i must say i saw the ending coming from a mile away)...

i'm sure there were things i disliked, too, but i will come to those in my own time.

And another:

Trainspotting & Headstate: Playscripts by Irvine Welsh (sorry, somehow the touchstone isn't working too well).

I read this because it had Trainspotting in it. And I'd never seen the film but recently have been thinking that maybe I ought to. And I thought, "Wasn't there a book?" And figured what the hell, this wasn't too long, I had half an hour to spare, I could speedread all right...

Well, after much head-scritchin', I have come to the conclusion that the book is muchmuch better than the playscript. I mean, why else would so many of my friends love it so? The playscript (and that of Headstate, too), let me be plain, sucked some donkey balls. I wasn't too impressed. I found myself rationalizing for every potential pitfall in an attempt to defend the sanctity of Trainspotting, but all that accomplished was that I spent the half-hour going, "Well, some of the stories are right amusing enough, but this is disconnected, ill-conceived, barely relating, infirm rubbish, and completely otiose," but then in the next breath, "But that must have been intentional, in order to fully place the audience within the addled mind of a junkie, really it's like phenomenological architecture if you think about it like that..."

Well, after much claptrap like that, the fact remained: I do not like these playscripts.

52. the red badge of courage, stephen crane

pretty all right. fleming really redeemed himself at the end, but i still spent much of the book skimming in a half-soporific state of disinterest in crane's cliches (not too frequent, i'll allow) and what felt like masses of ill-written and uninteresting description of nature.

however i should probably clarify that i was and am still suffering one hell of a hangover from what feels like a decade of no sleep whatsoever and brutally mixed drug cocktails. physician prescribed.

I sure hope your health improves soon, amaranthic!

I am a huge fan of Willa Cather's My Antonia, liked Death Comes for the Archbishop but not as much as the other, so I will add A Lost Lady to my TBR list.

Hi
I checked your library and enjoyed perusing the interesting selections. Thus far I've added two books to my tbr pile, they are Pocahontas and the Powhatan Dilemma and Don't Let's Go to the Dogs Tonight

thank you! as it is, i find my health satisfactory, but doctors do what doctors do. (i believe there is a word, possibly obsolete, for ill transformations caused by doctors' hands; it is something like 'iatrogenic,' but i'm not sure. i know of no similarly specific word for medical good deeds.) (ironically enough, considering my skepticism, i hope to go into medicine one day.) oh well. we'll see.

i haven't read either of those - my antonia and death comes for the archbishop - but have passed the latter many times on my bookshelf and the former many times on the bookshelf of my favorite local used bookstore, so i will add them to my tbr pile directly!

speaking of books i have yet to read, pocahontas and the powhatan dilemma is one of them. someone whose taste is usually pretty good gave it to me, and i have yet to begin it. so i hope it is good!

edit: correction for tense

53. the mayor of zalamea, pedro calderon de la barca

i really want to be able to read calderon in the original one day, so i thought, why not start with some calderon in translation? unfortunately i couldn't find la vida es sueno, which is what i wanted to read, but the mayor of zalamea weren't none too bad neither. the action in the latter half in particular seemed too fast for me. not my favorite though (oh, how many times a week i hear that phrase from my own mouth... can i please encounter another favorite sometime soon? please??).

54. reading the oed, ammon shea

just some light reading. i found the prose sections of this book lacking and lackluster, but i picked up a ton of new words that i'm excited to use in daily life (come to think of it, maybe this is where i got 'iatrogenic' from). however, i was very surprised at how slim this book was, considering its subject matter!

edit: touchstones not really working for the mayor of zalamea, but rest assured that it exists...

55. regeneration, pat barker

i really don't know which side of the line i come down on in regards to this book. i appreciate all the different themes barker (it's a she, btdubs) is able to weave into there - contraception, honor, masculinity, religion - and her prose ain't too shabby neither. (i rather enjoyed it.) but at times the book felt a little too explicit. something i had surmised via analysis would be confirmed with a blunt declaration - a little infuriating for the clue-seekers like me! and she introduced a whole motley of characters who weren't quite one-offs and had a little more to their substance than a single anecdote - and yet you'd only see them a few times, with all the vast swathes of character development in between left largely unexplored. however i would recommend this book. just not my copy, as the copy i got from the campus bookstore came with 60 pages missing and another 80 repeated. just my luck.

56. the seagull reader: stories. short stories. a form seemingly so simple and yet so difficult to master. even within preselected batches of short stories, i rarely see many i like, and although many of the stories here are famous (it's a "reader" after all), this collection was no exception. i will list the stories i liked here at a later date once i get ahold of my copy again.

57. the trestle at pope lick creek, naomi wallace; a play

this play was not BAD. i am still working out what i thought about it. it was a mite predictable nearing the end and at times the characters' actions seemed ludicrously unrealistic. but in general, it was pretty good. um, i really liked the subtle exploration of gender roles.

58. the crying of lot 49, thomas pynchon

i always like pychon. i always do! but for some reason, i suddenly recalled this morning that i had never finished reading the crying of lot 49. well, after reading it, it still isn't my favorite book, but it feels like one of the best books i've read in a while. (but then again, i'm lucky - i haven't read a book i TRULY disliked since... oh, i don't even know when.) i was especially fascinated by all mixing of historic detail and imaginative embellishment (for example thorre & taxis and tristero) and amused by how pynchon plays around with laguage.

see how i have been SO POSITIVE lately? it's a new thing i'm trying...

59. the bacchae and other plays, euripedes, translated by philip vellacott

i actually liked most of these. i personally was not such a great fan of _the women of troy_, but the other three plays had lots and lots of redeeming features for me. i felt like ion really illuminated for me the greek attitude towards divine fallibility and the essential humanity of gods, even as the closest we come to the gods manifest is hermes, the messenger. helen, while starting off as a rather one-dimensional and long-drawn note of lamentation, contains several points of interest, including a condemnation of bloodshed as commensurate to honor at one point ("you who would ... in the clash of spear on spear / Gain honor - you are all stark mad!"). Statements are also made subtly or otherwise about the essential entrapment of the human condition and moral truth as overruling social hierarchy, among others. i found the bacchae equally rich, especially in its approach to irrational violence (i have to admit, one certain monologue made me a lil queasy), confusion of gender roles, madness vs sanity, the greek condemnation of hubris and self-idolization and pride and dishonoring the gods. although some of these plays seemed to end on monotonous or deus ex machina notes to me, they were generally quite provocative and interesting. i love euripides!

60. nightwood, djuna barnes

i liked this one. i liked it a lot, although i couldn't decide what i thought about it, all the way until the last three chapters, when the doctor finally started getting excessive for me and (more importantly - for that first point is a meaningless quibble) ALL THE CHARACTERS began to talk almost identically, though on different themes.

i still can't decide what i think of it.

i almost hope nobody asks me, because i do not know what i would say.

I have had this waiting on the shelf for oh, I don't know...years? Possibly I'll give it a go soon. ;)

well, if you give it a go, i wish you luck. personally, i really liked nightwood (i've knighted it one of my new favorites), but it's not for everyone. the imagery is lush and lovely - i think that point at least is a little hard to contest. in my version's introduction, ts eliot likens this novel to poetry, which i think is apt. but there are whole sections that are just, well, single-character harangues or monologues, philosophical and obtuse and unwieldy. i found myself reading at a much slower pace with this book than with others, because it was dense and complex, because i had to take more time to simply DIGEST and evaluate all the proposed ideas. i'm still thinking on it a little, even now; i know that my analysis is nowhere near complete. also, i felt a little bit as if the plot had been to some extent sacrificed to the form, as if imagery for barnes took precedence over movement. which i don't think is completely a negative thing - but you shouldn't go into nightwood expecting a rollicking adventure story, for example.

off topic, hence new post: i'm thinking of amassing my movie reviews and thoughts-on here as well, as i might as well (ugh, "as well") have everything in one place, for easy reference etc.

61 (at long last) - the theban plays, by sophocles; watling translation

much as i expected, my favorites were "oedipus the king," then "antigone," and lastly "oedipus at colonus." that last play wasn't a bad play; it just didn't have any of the same intensity of emotion or tension as the other two in the book, and so paled in comparison for me (although i can see that obviously it has complexity of meaning etc - just personal preference -wise, not my thing). "antigone" was pretty great, but at first (first 400 lines, maybe) i found the characters of isthene and antigone rather one-dimensional and predictable, isthene in particular. some of sophocles' messages also seemed more explicit in "antigone" than in "oedipus," at least in this translation, something that i don't usually enjoy in my reading. i was very happy however that i read these three plays together, as opposed to seperately, because then a certain unity of themes could be easily perceived, for example re: hubris, divine omnipotence (of sorts) slash inescapability of fate, fallibility of man, necessity of proper respect in regards to the gods, etc etc etc.

edit: the discourse on man/woman also was curious.

I think Antigone was my favourite, but then I did read those for the first time as an angst-ridden 19-year-old....

"antigone" was all right. i just liked oedipus' slow non-transformation more. in "antigone," i especially enjoyed creon's touting of human law over divine dictate, which i felt really seemed to loop back to oedipus again. and i feel like there was more snappy dialogue too, which was great.

and angst-ridden 19 year olds are likewise always amusing. i'm probably not too far from one myself, given the depressing movies i watch and all....

62. classical literary criticism, published by penguin classics, translated by penelope murray and t. s. dorsch, and consisting of selections from plato (ion, parts of the republic), aristotle (poetics), horace (the art of poetry), and longinus (on the sublime).

i have no real opinion on this book. initially, i had to read some of it for a class; otherwise, i would probably not have picked it up. but you have to reach out of your comfort zone every once in a while. so... classical literary criticism... all right, bring it on. i much prefer literature in the colloquial sense and fiction to ancient greek and latin philosophy and theory, but i can understand the importance of building a firm foundation... etc. i have discovered from reading this book mostly that i disagree with lots of the plato i've encountered and really like longinus! seriously, at times he is positively caustic, and full of snappy bits of humor. the longinus is very different from everything else in the book, but definitely a highlight for me.

WOW. What a very interesting exchange regarding Antigone This brought back so many great memories of a freshman English professor in college who introduced this work to the class. I still remember the paper I had to write.

Wow! What a lot of great books! I especially enjoy reading your comments--and the comment of others--because I get good ideas of what to add to my wish list or, in the case of those I own but haven't read, my TBR list.

I read Red Badge of Courage this year also and enjoyed it. I felt it was kind of a "coming of age" novel that takes place in the hellish conditions of war. Somehow all those adolescent thoughts and angst when he is under such horrific circumstances made me more sympathetic to him--whereas in many "coming of age" novels I just get annoyed because the protagonist often ust seems whiny.

I also love Chronicle of a Death Foretold but I haven't tackled 100 years of Solitude yet--it's in my TBR pile.

Since you made it to 54 before the end of Septembe in spite of starting late, I think you have no trouble reaching or even surpassing the "finish line!"

Whisper - I liked "Antigone," and I don't know what I would have thought of it were I to read it in a class, because I read "Oedipus the King" in my English class (which I actually have an upcoming Oedipus paper for), and so I can never be entirely sure whether I would have appreciated it just as much on my own, you know? Whenever I read something in class, that's always a pressing question for me - would I be able to analyze this work in just as much depth outside of class, and if not, would my appreciation of the work drastically decrease?

MusicMom - Unfortunately, Red Badge of Courage was not incredibly memorable to me, so I can't really discuss it much. I see where you're coming from, and I agree that certain elements of the book did provoke my sympathy as well (I mean, his whine really seemed justified given the conditions and all!), but I just remember there being so much debris, unnecessary description and such, around the gems that I could barely get through pages at a time. I totally hear you on the whiny coming of age protagonists too, though - that's definitely something I see again and again that usually annoys me beyond end!

100 Years of Solitude - not my fave. I can step back and appreciate the bigger picture and all the lovely themes and everything, but on a page-to-page level, it just didn't do it to me. Not only was it far from gripping in my eyes, but it was also completely ... cyclical, which I suppose is the point (again, in the bigger picture view), but ultimately rather obnoxious. I said in my short review of it that I "might" have picked it up 100 pages after my actual pause point and not noticed - this was not hypothetical, this actually happened, and I read for literally twenty pages before realizing, "Hey, I've never seen that character before..." Never a good sign, for me. That was probably the defining point of my experience reading 100 Years.

I do want to say that certain sections were very beautiful to me when read as separate from the rest of that 500 pages mammoth, though; obviously Marquez is an excellent writer!

I hope I meet the finish line too! I will admit that I might have cheated a little - in the midst of my panic, I ended up reading a large amount of very short books! But that's okay... it's the reading that counts, right? :)

Bookmooching is so hard! At the last minute, I never want to LET GO of the books. Well, I guess I can't say "at the last minute" yet, because I'm new so nobody has mooched any books from me yet, but still - the sentiment remains.

63. brideshead revisited, evelyn waugh

i really liked this for, oh, maybe the first book of it. "it's light," i said, recommending it to many, "and really rather subtle, but quite all right." but somewhere around the middle of the book, my feelings towards this novel began to change. perhaps it was the long, excessively comma'ed sentences, unwieldy and dithering; these occasionally worked out fine, but much more often lost relevance and movement rapidly. (some of my favorite authors - faulkner, rushdie - do similar things to much greater effect.) or perhaps it was the conversations, which at times seemed unnecessarily obtuse for dialogue so simple (but i am not sure i am even REALLY complaining about this yet - i really should think on the book for a day before commenting in this respect).

other than that, i liked it... just not as much as i liked it in part...

amarantic
although I have not read Brideshead revisited, I have seen (more than once) the BBC series. As I understand from others this series is very close to the book.
And I liked the first half the most, always have. After that it is all decline somehow, don't know better words to describe it.

my feelings exactly. i mean, don't get me wrong, there were great things about the latter half of the book - developments in the dialogue on catholicism (my fave part), further commentary on wealth both old and new - but for the most part, i just felt like it became a lot less unique and a lot more static in some ways. i will admit that i partially skimmed the last 50 pages of the novel because there was simply barely anything that kept my interest anymore.

i'm interested to see how the bbc series parallels the book, though. i'll have to see whether my local libraries have it!

62. doctor faustus, christopher marlowe

not very satisfying as a work of literature in some regards - you know approximately the outcome from the very beginning, after all, and there are but sparse moments of true poetry. but as a work, as a book that is often discussed and referenced in later writing and later thought, yes, it was satisfying to just READ it and finally have that piece of the foundation. most interesting dialogues of the play: catholicism vis a vis the rest of christianity vis a vis 'paganism' (greek tradition) vis a vis 'black magic,' ideas about hell and redemption, the treatment of class, helen...

i guess faustus was actually 64, making 65 shakespeare's king lear.

definitely now one of my favorite shakespeare plays, along with hamlet (of course) and othello. i sense a theme. but anyway, king lear was excellent. again, i found all discussion of manliness fascinating (i guess i just really like all mention of gender) - this idea of stoicism as masculine that has really been handed down the ages for instance, i always find that interesting. more obviously, the treatment of madness and this concept of the fool, & then generational gaps (for lack of a better term - i am past my bedtime here), narcissism/humility, natural order, language. i did heartily dislike cordelia (who i found absolutely stereotypical and just generally awful) and all those explicit, boring notions of filial piety, etc. and i left the book really wishing that i had the opportunity to read it in a class of some sort, because i did feel that whizzing sensation of things going above my head - you know, when you read a book and you stare at a line and you JUST KNOW there is some hidden meaning or allusion to ferret out, but you can't quite think of what it is.... my life, daily, but more so when faced with king lear, i think.

edit: i read the pelican paperback edition.

66. tennessee williams, the glass menagerie

i actually was not very excited about this play on its own merits. however, the introduction to my edition includes a short essay by williams wherein he introduces us to his concept of the plasticine play as vital to the thespian future. well, that throwaway aside, and the further explication in the text/introduction (memory plays, emotion plays - and i felt it succeeded quite well in this respect), made the play itself much more interesting!

i guess i would have to visually see this play in order to really get the full experience; for example, the way the dialogue was written - i just COULD NOT get into the swing of it, half the time. obviously something resolved by just seeing the play, but nonetheless threw me off my game a bit.

67. seneca's on the shortness of life, which is really comprised of three essays, namely a letter to his mother (i forget the title my copy assigns it), "on the shortness of life," and "on tranquility."

i was actually surprised by how much i liked seneca. i don't read a lot of philosophy at all, so this was really a change for me, but once i got into the pace of it it really picked up. i was constantly amused by seneca's idiosyncrasies and funny little quirks of logic, and i was equally fascinated by how many ubiquitous quotes of inspiration and otherwise could be attributed to him. i would have to say though that my favorite part of these writings was actually all the interesting little anecdotes he would tell to underscore his points; i'm afraid that x thousand years later, the philosophy itself has been assimilated into our mainstream perception and is thus not so original... (much as his misogyny was pure mainstream in his time)

WOW! Amaranthic...
You are reading some pretty heavy stuff. I enjoy your descriptions.

Thank you! I'm trying to read more heavy stuff this year and catch up on all the classics I haven't read.

You are to be admired. Keep up the good work!

I'll try my best!

68. letters to a young poet, rainer maria rilke

slightly lighter reading in some ways, this collection of letters is both insightful and brief - and despite all appearances to the contrary, i prize conciseness above all, so i was very happy indeed about this development. when i picked up this book, i thought it would be letters that would help me as a poet, letters that would discuss verse or inspiration or rhythm. what i found instead were letters addressing life, at times within themselves prose-poetic. although i would not choose this book as a new favorite - a few arguments seem hackneyed after more than a century of intercession - certain passages are beautiful and even, for me, timely, notably the discourse on solitude that pervades the book.

69. at long last, 活着 by 余华.

now i liked this book, but i didn't LOVE this book, mostly because i felt as if it was in some places more explicit and simplistic thematically than it could have been (a common complaint for me, so you shouldn't pay any attention to me when i say this). but then i thought about it, and honestly, how much of that is the book and how much of that is ME? would i have loved this book had i read it in english? am i merely missing meaning entirely due to a lower level of comprehension in chinese, a lesser understanding of chinese culture and history? thoughts.

i would recommend this book, anyway, although i don't know how beautiful it is in english. i find that chinese-english translations often come out a little unfortunate.

a caveat: there are moments that may shock (my mom skimmed maybe 50 pages of this 200-page book because she felt it was just too depressing). the protagonist also starts out the book as a despicable bayard who does a few things that could be considered suspect.

70. hamlet

for once i have nothing really to say. i did like hamlet. i have an essay due on it though, the idea of which quite predictably erases my mind of all original thought. so i will probably have my tuppence in later.

Wow! How terrific to find another playreader in this group! I love reading plays (and frankly would have counted each of your "collected" works as individual plays read). Often plays are more intense versions of other types of writing and I find them more fun to discuss in groups because of that.

You've been reading lots of interesting authors, and if you're interested in a couple of works by authors you were only nominally impressed by, I have a couple of suggestions. Try Cakes and Ale by Maugham. It has a wonderful twist to end the story. Alexander's Bridge was Cather's first novel in print and is very different in style from her later work--so much so she disavowed the novella, but it's an interesting "period" piece.

There are, of course, lots of film adaptations of some these works, but there was an independent film of The Bridge of San Luis Rey which featured Kathy Bates, Gabriel Bryne, F. Murray Abraham, Geraldine Chaplin, and Harvey Keitel. Robert DeNiro's also in it, but his production company was involved and I suspect that meant money for the studio. He's miscast dreadfully, but the film is mostly accurate to the story, and very interesting to watch.

I have only recently started reading plays, but I find them lots of fun! I'm currently reading Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead and am really liking it. The one problem with plays for me though is that with typically less elaborate stage directions we're really left to ourselves on the staging and visuals of the play, and I don't have a very visually strong imagination, so plays for me are much better when seen and experienced. Do you have any recommendations for plays I should read next?

I'm definitely going to try more Cather - everyone has been telling me to, so I figure I should give her another go. And I'll keep all your suggestions in mind. I'll have to check out that film!

Well, there's a good film version (also written by Stoppard) of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern featuring very, very early film work by Gary Oldman and Tim Roth with Richard Dreyfuss as The Player. Funky casting, but it works well.

You're sampling theatre all over the boards, and the newer playwrights give more description of sets and costumes than the ancients, so you might want to follow an old drama instruction: watch it, read it, and then watch it again. I find that when I read something very serious I have to then read something really light--and I go a lot to Neil Simon and to Thurber for those.

At your library, you will also be able to find lots of plays which were filmed in the 60s and 70s from PBS and BBC productions, most of which are quite intriguing. There's a very young Richard Dreyfuss in a version of Juno and the Paycock, and Arthur Miller's An Incident at Vichy which is really good. There's also a version of Antigone with Genevieve Bujold that's interesting.

I'll check it out. I've heard it's not as good as the play, though. But then again, that's always a common complaint...

And as for the read, watch, and read again, I only wish I had time to follow that instruction! As is, I feel like I barely have time to do an adequately close reading, much less experience each play three times. I have been trying to filmed versions of plays and books, though, just because I find it fascinating what choices directors make about reinterpreting the works.

Thurber - I haven't read a lot of Thurber. I was given My Life and Hard Times at a young age, but that has really been it. But on the topic of light reading, I actually first became interested in plays because I had been reading some Euripides for that purpose - not that it was more lighthearted or even substantively less dense, just that I have an easier time reading plays and poetry on a more superficial level, and sometimes I need to be able to step back a little and read for reading's sake. As most plays are a little short and tend to lack what I can only term situational description (where I find I get the most hung up), they fit the bill for me, and of course now I'm discovering more and more plays that are genuinely well-written and engaging. And that's really exciting.

#75 amaranthic: now I'm discovering more and more plays that are genuinely well-written and engaging. And that's really exciting

I love the fact that for you, plays have made reading exciting again! I love it when something so engages a person that they find they cannot get enough, and it sounds like you are at that point. Congratulations on finding a way to read that works for you.

Well, the read, watch, read instruction is a classroom technique, so not to worry about it. Sometimes though, it does help with the visualization, especially on older plays. For a Thurber play, try The Male Animal or The Skin of Our Teeth. He also wrote stage presentations of some of his other works. I also recommend The 13 Clocks or The Wonderful O as reading just for fun.

#76 - yes, and I am so excited about being excited about plays in particular, because traditionally I have had a pattern for veering towards longer novels, which for me stand in some ways (though not all) as the opposite of plays. So it's fun for me that I'm really enjoying an art form that I had previously overlooked.

Re: read, watch, read - it looks that I'll be doing that for Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead after all, and using the film version you've recommended! I did catch about 15 minutes of the latter today, and liked it enough that I think I'll be seeing the rest. I don't know if I'll have time to reread it again (sic) afterwards, given the enormous amount of work I have this weekend, but it's a short play, so who knows.

And thanks; I'll try those Thurber plays. Oddly enough for me, those plays ring a bell. I'll see if I don't have them about the house already.

first impressions on film version of r&g

- all the world's a play / etc much more apparent in film (added audiences, r&g were literally on the stage at several points i believe, more literal echoing of the dumbshow in r&g's deaths; the play within the play within the play within the play; also, two dumbshows, interestingly enough)
- i think the reason i prefer the play to the film is because the lack of coherent setting emphasizes the theatric nature of everything. ho hum.
- scientific discoveries - i was not too excited about this addition. obviously again with the fate v mortal will and the comic relief but just... no, not that excited, seemed a little superfluous too.
- more direct quotation from hamlet. is this because they think movie-goers won't be as familiar with the story? i am not sure. i didn't really like this stronger presence.
- no UNICORN story! or many other lines in that vein re: common experience, perceived reality/truth, "one acts on assumptions," etc. hmmmm. artistic choices. i don't think they carried all the boat metaphors all the way through either (the last 15 pages of the play in particular seemed a little thrown over - sad, because they were great).
- the player - in the play he is obviously still slightly malevolent, all the etc but in the movie he appears to take a much more direct role (especially re: deaths of r and g and of course the last shot in the movie is everyone dead and then the players packing up for another go). in a way, this then takes the emphasis off fate and possible/not divinity and places the onus on a threatening, potentially not mortal, but nonetheless concrete and individual character within both plays.

Well, you can direct all your comments back to Stoppard because he wrote the screenplay. And you recall that he notes in copies of the play entire sections of the play that are sometimes included and sometimes not, depending on the audience. You are correct--he probably wrote this for his projected film audience. On the other hand, the coin toss is a lot easier take watching the befuddlement growing....

He says no such thing in my copy of the play. The only potential allusion lies in a statement that "the first performance of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern... was given in a slightly shortened form." No other reference to this exists. So - thank you for telling me. But no, I do not recall!

I do now have to question which sections they see fit to omit depending on which audiences... would this be merely the sections viewed as weakest or the ones that would appear to become dull the quickest? I have to say that I don't agree with all the choices made in the film. I felt that removing the theme of common experience as reality as being only that and spurious was a disservice to the meaning of the play, for example.

72. prufrock and other observations, t s eliot

so I am not very good with evaluating poetry. I like it all after a certain point. But I especially like the love song etc etc. I've read it distractedly or in part several times in my life, but this is the first time I've been able to read all of it, and I like it much more this way (although there is a certain section that I'm not so keen on - not discussing it here as I have yet to analyze this poem).

A thought on poetry - I've been told several times in my life that one appreciates or understands poetry more as one grows older...

#80 and 81--So, it may be that the library acting copy had the notes. It was fascinating to see where Stoppard recommended cuts, because sometimes they were very integral to the plot, but often it was more of the "play" which I think his audiences couldn't handle. I'll see if I can get the copy back and send you the text, because I found it enlightening in how Stoppard views his work. In any version, I do enjoy this play however, and I'm glad you found it interesting enough to watch.

That would be interesting, but don't trouble yourself too much - that sounds like it would be something of a time commitment!

I did like Rosencrantz & Guildenstern too. It was also interesting for me to go back to Waiting for Godot afterwards and note the similarities.

Nope. Library's across the street from work and I have at least two more trips this week. I'll check it out on one of them and let you know.

Thank you so much! I'm excited to hear about it!

73. the waste land, t s eliot

I am marking this as read because I did - I did physically read it. But did I understand the Italian? The French? Did I understand it at all? I don't know. I am on my third read through and I still can't decide much about this poem. I'm thinking that I might ultimately look up literary criticism for this work, because I am so curious about what other people have to say about it!

>72 Prop2gether: & 87 Amaranthic, I tried reading Eliot when I was younger and I just didn't get him. So recently, I tried again as a mature (old!) person and do you know what - I still don't get him!

Is it me or is it him. I like simple, straightforward verse that rhymes and that I don't have to have a degree to understand! So it's probably me!

- TT

I don't know! I WANT to get him, but I just don't. I feel like the problem is that he writes in a style that is so... rich with allusion, allusion to works I haven't read, languages I don't understand. I feel like I need to learn a whole culture in order to understand this poem point-blank!

And while I do love allusion and I usually find layered meanings exciting, for me, on a personal level, this poem of Eliot's borders on inaccessibility - so although I do like the images I did get, probably not going to be my favorite poem.

I know that I will return to it, though.

He's my favorite poet, simply because of the beautiful use of language.....though Whitman is gaining on him for the same reason. I probably forgive the passages I don't truly understand in favor of the language.

I don't know who my favorite poet would be. I've been reading a biography of Robert Lowell lately, so I've become partial to some of his poems. And then there are all the usual suspects for my generation - everyone loves e e cummings, everyone loves pablo neruda... I've recently developed a liking for Ezra Pound, but only some of him.

So I don't know.

I think I would like Eliot a lot if there were only a way to block the parts in foreign languages from my consciousness as I read it, because I do like his language and I do like what he does with it - it's just that the passages in Italian or French or German or Latin just become so distracting to me, and I become stuck on this possibly fallacious idea that there is something inherent and vital to the poem that I completely don't understand... I do like poems by Eliot that don't make such elaborate use of languages I don't know. I'm making my way through some essays too.

And I just bought a book of selected Whitman poems. (As you can see, I'm trying to maneuver an introduction to poetry!)

For a completely different feel, my second favorite is Robert Service. He is just a lot of fun! And in his own style, is quite a wordsmith also, able to tell wonderful stories in a lyrical form. When you get through, you feel like you've read a short story.

Message #87...Hang in there; you are very close to completing the 75 book challenge. Congrats in advance.

Linda

>92 blackdogbooks: BDB Now your'e talking! Robert Service - more like my style - I love his verse. Life, death, adventure, the pith of life - brilliant style and hugely enjoyable!

- TT

Just a quick thought here--you might try hearing the poems spoken by a reader/actor on tape/DVD. Sometimes reading while hearing, or just listening, can make the poem come together in a way it never did before. I find it works well for me with the poetic forms of plays (i.e., Maxwell Anderson especially, but also many others).

Robert Service I have not read before! I did trawl for him at my local used bookstores today, but no luck. So the library it is. Thank you for the recommendation, both of you.

Poems read out loud - I was listening to a recording of TS Eliot reading The Waste Land to try and help me with appreciating it more (I always really just wish I LIKED things - I feel like I spend all my time confused or complaining sometimes!), and his voice is just so funny to me that I couldn't focus on the words. Interesting experience, though.

I think my problem with Eliot, now that I've thought about it more, is that to some extent you are required to understand and internalize a whole culture (Eliot's) in order to truly milk the poem, and I haven't decided how I feel about this idea. I get frustrated while reading things written in Chinese, too, for the same reason. Often, I will set down very clearly to my mother why I disliked a certain book in Chinese - there were cliches up the wazoo, the narrative was not thematically unified, whatever - and she will just look at me and say, How is that important at all? I guess I just always have this idealistic and unrealistic hope that art will be truly universal, even as I rejoice in the thousand myriad differences that set cultures apart. perhaps re: the old question as to how to preserve cultural individuality in a globalized world. Something that has been on my mind lately.

Just on a note--some composers should never sing their work, some designers should never wear their work, and some authors should never record their work. They all have pre-conceived ideas of what is being sung or shown or said--and maybe a third party is the best choice. Every time I watch the Oscars and find a composer is the person singing (unless he/she did it in the movie), I get chills of despair.

#97 - very true, but then again, it is always amusing to hear the artist's original intentions! i suppose that it would be preferable for one to view at least two interpretations. after all, once art goes out into the world and becomes a living thing, half the meaning comes from the choices we make about it.

#93 - I am hanging in there; one more book...

74. portrait of the artist as a young dog, dylan thomas

i like dylan thomas. i like his poetry, or at least what i've read of it. and i did not dislike this book. i do wish that i had read portrait of the artist as a young man at some point, just so that i could comment on parallels, but i haven't, so to me, this was just a book of short autobiographical stories, most of which were well executed. my favorites would have to be all from the first half of this short book; i'm afraid that for me the latter stories largely seemed to have less direction, less movement. i am also a sucker for well-executed, relatively light stories about childhood, too, when in need of less dense reading, so that's another reason for my preference for the first half. i don't know what my favorite story from this bunch is, but i will probably edit this post to include that little factoid later.

> 96 Amaranthic, there is no need to get hung up about not liking a particular poet or book - there are hundreds more that may be more to your taste and liking. Onwards and Upwards!

- TT

Right - agreed! I'm not too horribly worried about being relatively ambivalent about TS Eliot in particular. But I do wish I could decide on a personal level on the question of universality vs specificity re: poetry, because recently I've found myself having a harder and harder time evaluating poetry for that very reason! I guess I'm just grappling with the age-old question of what makes a good poem. Oh well.

>100 amaranthic: amaranthic - "What makes a good poem?" That's easy! One you enjoy!

- TT

True. I guess that it's hard to argue that good poems are poems you do not enjoy, too! (Although I have probably been guilty of that in the past!)

>96 amaranthic: - amaranthic, I wish I could remember the exact quote, but T.S. Eliot wrote that he came to love Dante before he understood a word of Italian: merely by reading the verse out loud to himself and appreciating the music of the verse (he put it rather better than that paraphrase).

I think 'difficult' verse like The Waste Land can be infinitely rewarding: because you can read it in every way, from a superficial appreciation of the shape on the page or the sounds in the air right down to a scholarly understanding of every facet of the myriad layers of referencing.

Hmm. You've also just caused me to realise that my sister-in-law has left the country in the company of my Faber facsimile edition of the annotated drafts of The Waste Land with Pound's suggestions and corrections......... grr.

Call the book police......someone's absconded with a title from Flossie's library. Let's go get 'em!!!!

Just point me in the right direction and I'll catch that lower than low scoundrel :)

>104 blackdogbooks: & >105 alcottacre:: I'm very touched! I need to adopt my librarian friend's habit of inserting little bookplates (complete with spaces for date stamping) with "From the personal library of..." inscribed on them.

Actually, it may be part of my SIL's cunning plan to ensure that we definitely scrape together the coppers to go and visit them - they moved to Boston (well, Cambridge really) back in August.

I have family up in the Boston area. Which leg would you like broken? :)

>107 alcottacre: Stasia, I have just been reading about tarring and feathering in Rebel by Bernard Cornwell. This seems a much more appropriate punishment!

- TT

Nah, she needs her legs - she walks to work. But maybe a hard rap across the knuckles with an old-fashioned ruler ;-)

I think I mentioned this earlier in the year on someone elses thread but I heard or read (and now can't remember where) a sentiment that your library in heaven will be filled with the same number of books you have given or loaned over the course of your life.

Ah, that's no fun. Let's just take 'em out back and beat the @#$@ out of 'em. That's what they'd do in a Western and I think we should return to such values!!!

> 110 Down boy!

103: Thank you for that paraphrased quote. I completely understand the sentiment but I don't think sound alone is a great thing to judge a poem by! Although goodness knows I do it often enough myself!

106: I always think I want to do that thing with the bookplates - people are always wiggling books away from me - but I just can't bear to mark the book when it's clean and unannotated! Of course, I end up annotating most things I like, so once I break that barrier I'm okay with scrawling my name, making edits, ripping pages out (although this has only happened once), whatever. But not before.

110: Oh my!!

amaranthic, I couldn't find the exact quote about the music of Dante (although I will track it down - those three years must have been worth something...) but T.S. Eliot's essay on Dante (in Selected Prose of T.S. Eliot) begins:

I have always found that the less I knew about the poet and his work, before I began to read it, the better.

Can I just say again how much I love this website? I can't think of anything else that would have sent me back to a shelf of books untouched (other than to move house) since I read my bachelors result on the boards outside the Senate house.

Edit for myriad offences against grammar and typography. It's late.

I tried to argue that quote you shared with me to my advisor (who works as an English teacher) via email and I don't think he ever responded to me that time! I have to say, although obviously I can see the importance of contextual analysis, I find that sometimes just KNOWING so much of the surrounding debris really negatively influences my enjoyment of the poem as a whole, untested thing. I'd prefer to read poems at least once before breaking out the power tools and trying to chip them apart!

LT is great. I definitely don't use it to the fullest as much as other denizens of this realm do - I think I have only put 20 something books into my library, for instance. But the forums are great - there are just so many books for bizarre little outcroppings of interest, where I spend most of my time reading and learning and not saying a lot at all (I suppose I'm shy).

Hi amaranthic
I agree with you, the forums here are great! And, the varied interest has broadened my horizons.

Me too. I found the Virago Modern Classic group a while ago (and then the Persephone group) and although I never show my head, I'm very excited about those collections! Lots of new female authors I've never heard of. I am also a fan of the Ancient History group because I know almost nothing about ancient history.

75. lyrical ballads, and the touchstone says william wordsworth, but don't forget samuel taylor coleridge...

So: a confession. Those (all) of you who have had the good fortune of not interacting with me on a face-to-face level for the last, say, four weeks, will not be aware of my mild ("mild") obsession with Samuel Taylor Coleridge. Perhaps I will enlighten you by posting one STC-related anecdote per book read from now on - I have many! Anyway, maybe it was my full-fledged fixation on Coleridge, but I generally enjoyed the scant poems Coleridge contributed to this little seminal book much more than those of Wordsworth! Most of this book I was relatively ambivalent about. Some pieces I hated, occasionally irrationally - "The Foster-Mother's Tale" is a good example of something I spat venom at and yet could not adequately articulate why I couldn't stand it. I think generally I find Wordsworth much less subtle in some ways, a little more explicit, and I hate being TOLD things once I've spent a long time looking for the signs. I also felt like his rhythm was occasionally less beautiful, but perhaps that was just me. And I'm not even going to get started on "The Foster-Mother's Tale" itself. On to more positive things - the three poems I enjoyed the most in this book are hardly the obscure ones, but they are excellent for a reason: "Lines Written Above Tintern Abbey" (not sure on whole title), "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner" (can't remember spelling), and "The Nightingale" (sweet call out to Philomela there, guys).

Speaking of Philomela and "The Nightingale," I was unable to convince my class (initially this was for an English class) that Philomela's CALL for pity as seen in Ovid's Metamorphoses is significant (hello, rote pity! you can figure out the rest of my train of thought yourself). This may have been because nobody had read Metamorphoses. Oh well.

Speaking of Coleridge, here's a promised anecdote: After his father died, the 8 or so year old Coleridge went to London to study at Christ's Hospital, a charity school. At the time the headmaster of the Upper School was one Reverend James Boyer, occasionally Jeremy Bowyer, who was by all accounts except Coleridge's something of a sadist. He would pick up boys by the earlobes until they started bleeding and at one point he threw a book of Homer across the room at Leigh Hunt so hard it knocked one of his (admittedly loose) teeth out. He was also a big proponent of flogging, even for the times. There's this great quote that I, um, actually found on Wikipedia but I haven't found it anywhere else so we'll just go with that, and what's happened is that Leigh Hunt has just told Coleridge the news of Boyer's death. Coleridge's response: "It was lucky that the cherubim who took him to heaven were nothing but faces and wings, or he would infallibly have flogged them by the way" (Wikipedia page for James Boyer). So yeah, Boyer. I find Boyer really funny because of the chronological distance so I have lots of Boyer stories too. Anyway, this long paragraph has all been a build-up for the following short anecdote: apparently while Boyer was flogging the young Coleridge, after he had finished he would give him an extra cut, for in Boyer's words to STC, "you are such an ugly fellow"...

>117 amaranthic: Rere, I enjoyed your anecdotes about STC. Did you know that Anne Fadiman is a soulmate of yours? Check out her book At Large and at Small.
for her (mild) obsession about STC, too. She has some great anecdotes about STC in her essay on him. I have the two volume biography by Richard Holmeswhich you have just reminded me (Anne minded me!) to read.

- TT

Congrats Rere for reaching *75*!!

Trumpets herald your accomplishment!! Congrats!

Woo Hoo!!

Thank you all!! I'm very excited I made it all the way to 75. It was a busy year so I wasn't sure if I could do it!

I'll have to check out the Fadiman. My obsession with Coleridge has reached troubling proportions. I've started reaching for relevant anecdotes about STC at every occasion. It's just that there are so many fun ones from his youth to share...

I'll probably get over myself soon though.

I was about to recommend a biography of Coleridge that I liked when I looked over at my notes to check the author and it was Richard Holmes! So you're ahead of me. I really liked that biography. I found it less dry than many others. It also gave me the most information about his childhood out of any biography I checked (around 38 pages up to age 18 in comparison to a typical two paragraphs), except for maybe James Gillman's 1838 The Life of Samuel Taylor Coleridge. I am always interested in the childhoods of various people, probably because I am not far from childhood myself, so that was an especial plus for me. Happy reading!

Congratulations on reaching 75! Now you can gear up for 2009. :-)

Thanks again! I can't decide whether to make my 2009 topic now or later. I'm still reading a couple books but I'm so busy that I probably won't finish any before the new year!

edit: And I would like to admit that I am wrong. Sources tell me that "The Foster-Mother's Tale" is actually Coleridge and not Wordsworth. So I don't really dislike Wordsworth as much as I initially claimed. That's all.

I seen your message and thought you might be able to help. Do you understand any of his poems. Do you know what he is sayingin After the funeral or if my head hurt a hairs foot can you explain any of them... i am writting a comparative essay and can not find anything on what his poems mean. Or atleast can you point me in the right direction that i can figure it out. Thank you