Group Reads Book 5

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Group Reads Book 5

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1rojse
Feb. 26, 2009, 3:39 am

It's been two weeks since the "A Fire Upon the Deep" group read began, and I think it's time to start sorting out our next group read, as the selection process approximately two to three weeks, and most of the interest in the group reads on this thread last for a month, judging by previous threads.

Obviously, we can hold it off if others in this group think that we should delay the next group read.

As per the "How Should We Make This Work..." thread, each person gets three initial nominations for the group to vote on, unless this proves too unwieldy.

2iansales
Feb. 26, 2009, 4:22 am

I've not actually started A Fire Upon the Deep yet, although I plan to do so next week. And it'll probably take me about a week to finish. But I've no problem with kicking off the selection for the next book now. I wonder, though, if three choices is going to give us enough books common across everyopne's choices to reach a consensus.

Anyway, here's my three choices:

1) Last and First Men, Olaf Stapledon
2) Roadside Picnic, Arkady & Boris Strugatsky
3) Air, Geoff Ryman

3geneg
Bearbeitet: Feb. 26, 2009, 8:58 am

How about some classics. You know, those books I'm the only person here who has not read:

Dune (just Dune)
Stranger in a Strange Land
The Stars My Destination

4CD1am
Feb. 26, 2009, 2:57 pm

I'll second Dune.

My 3 suggestions are:

I Who Have Never Known Men by Jacqueline Harpman
The Engines of God by Jack McDevitt
Cyteen by C.J. Cherryh

5andyl
Feb. 26, 2009, 3:21 pm


Some of these are going to be rereads for me but here goes

1) A Dream Of Wessex by Christopher Priest
2) Ambient by Jack Womack

and a purely selfish suggestion (as I am preparing to read the sequel Earth Made Of Glass).
3) A Million Open Doors by John Barnes

6richardderus
Feb. 26, 2009, 9:39 pm

I'll second Stranger in a Strange Land.

I nominate:

The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. LeGuin
The Lights in the Sky Are Stars by Fredric Brown
Escapement by Jay Lake

8billiejean
Feb. 27, 2009, 9:34 am

I would like to nominate:
Neuromancer.

I am still at the beginning of A Fire Upon the Deep.
--BJ

9andyl
Feb. 27, 2009, 9:56 am

#8

Don't worry about that I haven't started it (aFUtD) yet (but I have read it before).

#6
As Escapement is only in hardcover (I think) and is also the second in a series it might be better to change that suggestion to Mainspring (but then you've probably read that already).

I will second Earth Abides though.

10rojse
Bearbeitet: Feb. 28, 2009, 2:27 am

I thought we would wait until our nominations were finalised before we do secondments, but okay...

(2) Stranger in a Strange Land - Robert Heinlen
(2) Dune - Frank Herbert
(2) Last and First Men - Olaf Stapledon
(2) Earth Abides - George Stewart

A Million Open Doors - John Barnes
The Lights in the Sky Are Stars - Fredric Brown
The Stars My Destination - Alfred Bester
Cyteen - C.J. Cherryh
Neuromancer - William Gibson
I Who Have Never Known Men - Jacqueline Harpman
Escapement - Jay Lake
The Left Hand of Darkness - Ursula K. LeGuin
The Engines of God - Jack McDevitt
An Abyss of Light - Kathleen M. O'Neal
A Dream Of Wessex - Christopher Priest
Air - Geoff Ryman
A Door Into Ocean - Joan Slonczewski
Roadside Picnic - Arkady & Boris Strugatsky
Ambient by Jack Womack

The secondment for Last and First Men is mine.

If it is okay with everyone, we'll leave the nominations open until next Monday, and then we will allow the secondments a week.

11bobmcconnaughey
Feb. 28, 2009, 10:51 am

i like Womack a lot, but Ambient isn't close to his best (imo, duh). I really don't want to slog through Stranger again - it was awful in 1969 and i can't imagine it improving. But i'd do it for group solidarity. Wouldn't Dune and Stranger be rereads for just about everyone?

i'll nom a couple of recent books i haven't read, but would like to read:
1.The Stone Gods Jeanette Winterson
2.The Drowned Life (P.S.) Jeffery Ford.

i do need some inspiration to pick up my copy of Anathem again..but it's too long to force upon anyone besides myself.

12richardderus
Feb. 28, 2009, 12:26 pm

>11 bobmcconnaughey: bob, I keep leaving my copy of Anathem in places I visit! It's a well-traveled book, since it's been in six states so far, and through the mail three times. It's awaiting its fourth mailing even as we speak.

Is this a sign, I wonder? Should I simply give up?

13bobmcconnaughey
Mrz. 1, 2009, 8:09 am

we have a small house and, for the life of me, i can't find Anathem. But then there are books i've been looking for that i KNOW i own that have gone missing for over a decade now. I may break down and spend too much money on Max Picard's the world of silence which will surely ensure it turning up the moment the new copy arrives. Even the box of books we took out from behind the tree @ christmas seems to have been put away in some alternate dimension.

14LolaWalser
Mrz. 1, 2009, 1:05 pm

Still confuzzled by the nomination/seconding mechanism... I too would like to nominate Stapledon's Last and first men--or is it second? Third? Vote?

One more nomination: Dhalgren.

15iansales
Bearbeitet: Mrz. 1, 2009, 1:29 pm

Much as I love Dhalgren, I was hoping for something a bit, well, shorter this time around.

16rojse
Bearbeitet: Mrz. 1, 2009, 6:38 pm

#14

It's as simple as me adding one to the tally "Last and First Men".

When we have finished with nominations, (next Monday) we give everyone a week to vote, and the top five (or more, if there is a tie) go to a poll.

Currently:

(3) Last and First Men - Olaf Stapledon
(2) Stranger in a Strange Land - Robert Heinlen
(2) Dune - Frank Herbert
(2) Earth Abides - George Stewart

A Million Open Doors - John Barnes
The Lights in the Sky Are Stars - Fredric Brown
The Stars My Destination - Alfred Bester
Dhalgren - Samuel R. Delany
Cyteen - C.J. Cherryh
Neuromancer - William Gibson
I Who Have Never Known Men - Jacqueline Harpman
Escapement - Jay Lake
The Left Hand of Darkness - Ursula K. LeGuin
The Engines of God - Jack McDevitt
An Abyss of Light - Kathleen M. O'Neal
A Dream Of Wessex - Christopher Priest
Air - Geoff Ryman
A Door Into Ocean - Joan Slonczewski
Roadside Picnic - Arkady & Boris Strugatsky
Ambient by Jack Womack

17bobmcconnaughey
Mrz. 2, 2009, 12:05 pm

I'll second I who have never known men - i've read some French Canadian SF but can't remember any modern French SF. I'd also really like to read the Ryman book, all else i've read by him has been good, but i'd like to try someone new.

18LolaWalser
Mrz. 2, 2009, 12:23 pm

In effect, we have two voting rounds: one, narrowing down the nominations, two, voting again on the smaller selection. Maybe it's simpler to express it so, rather than "seconding". Just sayin'.

19CD1am
Mrz. 6, 2009, 1:30 pm

Why are we having two voting steps? I thought the so called seconds round was just the seconding of nominations, and since that can and has been done concurrently with the nominations, it seems we could go right to the poll after Monday. It appears we have five books with 2 or more nominations, and everything else has 1 vote, unless somethng else gets a second in the next couple days. Right now the five books are:

(3) Last and First Men - Olaf Stapledon
(2) Stranger in a Strange Land - Robert Heinlen
(2) Dune - Frank Herbert
(2) Earth Abides - George Stewart
(2) I Who Have Never Known Men - Jacqueline Harpman

20BigJoel55
Mrz. 6, 2009, 1:51 pm

Dahlgren would be interesting, but I agree it is a challenge. But Neuromancer is the book I am seconding ... and I'm teaching it this Spring!

21LolaWalser
Mrz. 6, 2009, 1:53 pm

Two voting rounds makes sense to me--it's the nominating and "seconding" in the same breath that's confusing, especially when one is nominating one book and seconding another. (The idea is to have as many varied nominations as we can/like; then five best-liked suggestions are selected for the second round. In the group this size, voting on dozen+ nominations would fragment the votes far too much.)

22ronincats
Mrz. 6, 2009, 2:14 pm

I've been holding off on seconding Cyteen because I wasn't sure if we were doing it concurrently. Can we clarify?

23LolaWalser
Mrz. 6, 2009, 2:18 pm

The way I see it...

1. Throw out a bunch of suggestions ("nominations")

2. Have people voice which suggestions they like best ("seconding")

3. Select five top choices

4. Vote for one

24bobmcconnaughey
Bearbeitet: Mrz. 7, 2009, 8:44 pm

praying to some non-deity that the sins of my past haven't yet caught up sufficiently that i'll be rereading Stranger. Revulsion is not a bad word to describe my reaction upon my first reading as an undergrad lo tho many decades ago...Although all my wannabe hippie* friends grokked the fk out of it. I was a defn. outlier.

*umm, i was also in that category. In fact - can a vote be cast "negatively"? I'd spend mine on a "-" vote.

"Jeez bob, wtf, did RAH ever do to you?" i dunno, some reactions are just visceral. My wife and son both really liked "the moon is a harsh mistress" and it's probably a fine book..but i don't intend to find out; unyielding bigot that i am.

# NOT TO MENTION that Stranger was a 5 * book on charles manson's shelf.

25geneg
Mrz. 6, 2009, 4:41 pm

I think Lola has struck gold in how books should be selected. Where is Occam when you need to borrow his razor?

26iansales
Mrz. 6, 2009, 6:18 pm

My understanding was: vote for 5 books. Wait until everyone had voted, then 2nd one of those nominated by someone else. I've not picked a 2nd yet for that reason.

27billiejean
Mrz. 8, 2009, 4:21 pm

I think that we are seconding now, right? I second (or third, I guess) Stranger in a Strange Land.
--BJ

28GwenH
Mrz. 8, 2009, 4:27 pm

I better second something since currently the list is heavily stacked with books I've read in the last few months!

I second A Door into Ocean.

29iansales
Mrz. 8, 2009, 4:27 pm

And I second A Dream of Wessex.

30rojse
Mrz. 8, 2009, 7:57 pm

(3) Last and First Men - Olaf Stapledon
(3) Stranger in a Strange Land - Robert Heinlen
(2) Dune - Frank Herbert
(2) Neuromancer - William Gibson
(2) I Who Have Never Known Men - Jacqueline Harpman
(2) A Dream Of Wessex - Christopher Priest
(2) A Door Into Ocean - Joan Slonczewski
(2) Earth Abides - George Stewart

A Million Open Doors - John Barnes
The Lights in the Sky Are Stars - Fredric Brown
The Stars My Destination - Alfred Bester
Dhalgren - Samuel R. Delany
Cyteen - C.J. Cherryh
Harpman
Escapement - Jay Lake
The Left Hand of Darkness - Ursula K. LeGuin
The Engines of God - Jack McDevitt
An Abyss of Light - Kathleen M. O'Neal
Air - Geoff Ryman
Roadside Picnic - Arkady & Boris Strugatsky
Ambient by Jack Womack

Have I missed anything?

And since it is the second week now, no new nominations; only secondments (or increments thereof)

31RebeccaAnn
Mrz. 9, 2009, 7:51 pm

I'm just popping in to say hi to the group and wondering if I could join. I'm assuming this is a book club of sorts of the science fiction genre (correct me if I'm wrong) which I think is a fantastic idea! I'd love to be a part of it.

32rojse
Bearbeitet: Mrz. 9, 2009, 8:54 pm

Yes, that's not a problem. New posters are always welcome.

Although you missed out on nominating what you wanted to look at for this group read, you can still vote for the top five that we will be voting on next week. See post #30 for the progress on this.

Oh, and feel free to have a look at the previous book reads, too - "Book of the New Sun", "Day of the Triffids", "Farthing", or "A Fire Upon the Deep". If you wanted to discuss them in the old threads, I'm sure some of the posters would enjoy an exchange of opinions.

33RebeccaAnn
Mrz. 9, 2009, 9:08 pm

I'm going to have to second Dune then. It's one of the few books I recognize from the list and, as a bonus, it's one I already own. Always a pro...

34ronincats
Mrz. 9, 2009, 9:12 pm

Come on in, RebeccaAnn. Interest is all that's required!

35Aerrin99
Mrz. 10, 2009, 8:51 am

I'll second Neuromancer, since it's been on my to-read list for awhile now!

36rojse
Mrz. 11, 2009, 9:01 pm

(3) Last and First Men - Olaf Stapledon
(3) Stranger in a Strange Land - Robert Heinlen
(3) Dune - Frank Herbert
(3) Neuromancer - William Gibson
(2) I Who Have Never Known Men - Jacqueline Harpman
(2) A Dream Of Wessex - Christopher Priest
(2) A Door Into Ocean - Joan Slonczewski
(2) Earth Abides - George Stewart

A Million Open Doors - John Barnes
The Lights in the Sky Are Stars - Fredric Brown
The Stars My Destination - Alfred Bester
Dhalgren - Samuel R. Delany
Cyteen - C.J. Cherryh
Harpman
Escapement - Jay Lake
The Left Hand of Darkness - Ursula K. LeGuin
The Engines of God - Jack McDevitt
An Abyss of Light - Kathleen M. O'Neal
Air - Geoff Ryman
Roadside Picnic - Arkady & Boris Strugatsky
Ambient by Jack Womack

37rojse
Mrz. 13, 2009, 8:52 pm

When someone thirds one of the four seconded books, I'll start up that poll - we'd have the final five, then.

38richardderus
Mrz. 13, 2009, 9:34 pm

Okay...I third Earth Abides.

39ronincats
Bearbeitet: Mrz. 13, 2009, 9:47 pm

Yay, Richard! (I nominated that one, and I'd love to reread it--it's been YEARS!)

Of course, it's also been years since I read Dune, Stranger, and Neuromancer as well, but the first two I remember very well. I probably read the Stapledon at some point as well, but don't remember it either. It is the only one I would have to go out and acquire.

40richardderus
Mrz. 13, 2009, 9:48 pm

I read it too, not so very long ago, and want to re-read it because I think I missed some stuff the first time out. I think there might be more than meets the eye to this deceptively simple post-apocalyptic tale. So maybe we're in luck, roni!

41bobmcconnaughey
Mrz. 14, 2009, 1:34 pm

42GwenH
Bearbeitet: Mrz. 14, 2009, 2:54 pm

#41 I'd never heard of that book so I went and looked at its page. The brief description included this little bit - The women are watched over by mute, whip-toting male guards."

This whole thing of men beating on women seems to be a subgenre all its own. Made me think it would go nicely with our kickoff book about the Torturer.

43bobmcconnaughey
Mrz. 14, 2009, 4:48 pm

i hadn't either - just saw that it was an author i'd never read before

44rojse
Bearbeitet: Mrz. 15, 2009, 8:15 pm

Included both thirded books, to make six nominations:

(3) Neuromancer - William Gibson
(3) I Who Have Never Known Men - Jacqueline Harpman
(3) Stranger in a Strange Land - Robert Heinlen
(3) Dune - Frank Herbert
(3) Earth Abides - George Stewart
(3) Last and First Men - Olaf Stapledon

The Poll:
http://www.vizu.com/poll-vote.html?n=152987

EDIT: Apologies, but Micropoll doesn't show results on the map from anyone that isn't inside the US. So, Vizu it is, then.

Oh, the poll is open for a week.

45richardderus
Mrz. 15, 2009, 9:31 pm

Voted. May the best book win, whichever that is.

46ronincats
Mrz. 15, 2009, 10:52 pm

I've voted as well.

47RebeccaAnn
Mrz. 15, 2009, 11:12 pm

I too have placed my vote *secretly roots for her book of choice*

48billiejean
Mrz. 16, 2009, 12:10 am

I voted! Thanks for setting up the poll.
--BJ

49iansales
Mrz. 16, 2009, 3:05 am

Voted.

50LolaWalser
Mrz. 17, 2009, 4:27 pm

I voted.

51CD1am
Mrz. 18, 2009, 12:43 pm

Oh no! I haven't voted yet because now I'm torn. I guess I'll sleep on it & come back tomorrow.

52bobmcconnaughey
Bearbeitet: Mrz. 18, 2009, 10:55 pm

well last and first men at least isn't too long - though Stapledon has a lugubrious style that i find something of a slog. But i'm sure the UNC library, at least, has a copy (after i pay my fine for The Day of the Triffids).

GwenH's brief summary (perhaps unfairly) dissuaded me from "i who have never known men" but i surely don't wanna repeat the torture of the torturer.

53CD1am
Mrz. 19, 2009, 12:54 pm

I voted.

54rojse
Bearbeitet: Mrz. 19, 2009, 8:20 pm

#52

Thanks for forcing me to look up lugubrious. It does fit much of Stapledon's writing.

55GwenH
Bearbeitet: Mrz. 23, 2009, 1:50 pm

Looking at the voting, I notice that the voting is roughly organized by longitude.

Not that it means anything, just curious I thought. :D

56rojse
Mrz. 23, 2009, 7:41 pm

Well... it's a draw between "Last and First Men" and "Neuromancer". Does anyone whom has voted for one of the other six books want to change their vote?

57bobmcconnaughey
Mrz. 23, 2009, 11:44 pm

i'd switch my vote for sure if it were for one of Gibson's later works, but while Neuromancer was v. important in terms of genre history, Gibson defn. steadily improved as a writer - peaking w/ pattern recognition imo. I'll stick w/ Stapledon.

58sqdancer
Bearbeitet: Mrz. 23, 2009, 11:53 pm

Diese Nachricht wurde vom Autor gelöscht.

59richardderus
Mrz. 24, 2009, 12:03 am

Okay. I'm switching to Last and First Men.

60geneg
Mrz. 24, 2009, 2:36 pm

Wake me up and tell me what you've decided when you get it figured out.

61rojse
Mrz. 24, 2009, 8:42 pm

I don't know how to change the poll's settings, as the poll has closed (I had to set a closing date for the poll to make it work). Since Richardderus has apparently changed his vote to Last and First Men, I suppose that is the book that we discuss, unless anyone has a better suggestion than that.

62bobmcconnaughey
Mrz. 24, 2009, 10:25 pm

looks like Last and First Men by a hair.
(sounds like F&L Men by a ..microtone?)

63LolaWalser
Mrz. 24, 2009, 10:29 pm

Another oldie--but goldie! We hope.

I begin tomorrow.

64ronincats
Mrz. 24, 2009, 10:46 pm

I put a request hold on it at the library. It's the only one we were voting on that I don't own.

65GwenH
Bearbeitet: Mrz. 24, 2009, 10:52 pm

My copy is in transit from one county library branch to another. Assuming motorized vehicle, it shouldn't take too terribly long. :D

I pre-reserved L&FM since I read Neuromancer this past November and wasn't going to read it again so soon. I read it for a class and would have posted my response to one of the essay questions on the take home portion of an exam. Maybe next time.

66iansales
Mrz. 25, 2009, 3:22 am

I have the SF Masterworks edition and have been meaning to read it for years. Now I will.

67RebeccaAnn
Mrz. 25, 2009, 9:20 am

I checked a copy out from the library today, though I probably won't start the book until at least tomorrow.

68geneg
Mrz. 26, 2009, 1:37 pm

I have one intellectually brilliant or stupid exercise in narcissism to read, whichever it turns out to be it will, by definition, be slow going and one thousand pager for the literary group yet to read. I may or may not get to this one.

69richardderus
Mrz. 26, 2009, 2:58 pm

Expecting the postperson to push it through the slot momentarily.

geneg, are those two different books you're referring to in post 68? A thousand-page book in a literary group read sounds like torture to me. Narcissistic books can be fun, so long as one is able to put them down and read good stuff when the slogging gets too hard.

70LolaWalser
Mrz. 26, 2009, 3:20 pm

#68

Ha, I was just thinking, having read the intro and the first few pages, "Gene's gonna love this".

71geneg
Bearbeitet: Mrz. 26, 2009, 7:18 pm

>69 richardderus: I'm referring to Pale Fire and The Forsyte Saga (the first trilogy). Nabokov is not necessarily my cuppa, too pomo cutesy-wootsy for me. I think the post-modern project represents the triumph of evil. The people who are reading TFS are loving it, so I look forward to it.

72richardderus
Mrz. 26, 2009, 8:11 pm

>71 geneg: oooh. Pale Fire isn't for every taste, for sure. Personally, The Forsyte Saga left me wanting to wash my hands a lot. Irene Herron...ugh.

73GwenH
Bearbeitet: Mrz. 26, 2009, 11:40 pm

Picked the book up from the library this afternoon. My initial impression leads me to the suspicion that this group favors the pondorous writing style. Glancing through it, I feel like I'm looking at a history textbook (but without pictures!).

The first written page didn't do much to endear this book to me either. In the "Foreward to the Original American Edition":

"In the early chapters of this book America is given a not very attractive part. I have imagined the triumph of the cruder sort of Americanism over all that is best and most promising in American culture. May this not occur in the real world! But since the possibility of such an issue is admitted even by many Americans themselves, I shall, I hope be forgiven for emphasizing it, and using it as an early turning point in the long drama of Man."

Somewhere along the way, I got tired of non-American's constantly bashing Americans. Goodness knows, there's plenty to bash, but let us do it. The English can find plenty to bash in their own culture, I'm sure. Whether I forgive Stapledon as he hopes, will entirely depend on his story.

Looks like it's going to be a dense slog, but I'll try my best not to set this one aside as I have done with other books recently....or finish it so late that I'm left discussing it with myself. :)

Side note - I happen to be reading another English book at the moment and enjoying the story and the style quite easily.

74billiejean
Mrz. 27, 2009, 3:49 am

I don't have the book yet, but hope to get it this weekend. I am also planning to read Pale Fire and The Forsyte Saga, neither of which I have started. I am cautiously optimistic that my reading will be more efficient in April. :)
--BJ