Dalai Lama

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Dalai Lama

1carport
Jul. 23, 2009, 9:32am

The canonical name for the Dalai Lama has been changed to Tenzin Gyatso. As I understand it, this is not correct as it isn't the most generally, commonly accepted form of his name in English.

http://www.librarything.com/author/lamadalai

I haven't changed it, though, in case I missed (and didn't find when I searched) an agreement that it should be Tenzin Gyatso.

2bernsad
Jul. 23, 2009, 10:48pm

Shouldn't that be the Exiled Tenzin Gyatso?

3carport
Jul. 24, 2009, 3:41pm

LOL, I think that's a step in the wrong direction. I'll wait a few days for comments, then change it back, and add a disambiguation notice.

4Nicole_VanK
Jul. 24, 2009, 4:26pm

In a way I do understand, because Dalai Lama is more a title than a name - but I still think Dalai Lama is what he's most commonly called.

5lorax
Jul. 24, 2009, 4:34pm

Also, given that "Dalai Lama" has been combined with the name of this particular Dalai Lama, I think the canonical name should remain generic; at the moment there don't appear to be any books by earlier lamas, but it's not impossible that some might appear at some point (at which point, separation might be necessary.) It seems a little like setting the canonical name of "The Pope" to the current officeholder.

6timspalding
Jul. 24, 2009, 4:49pm

I vote "Dalai Lama." His books all have that as their author. If it were one, I'd blame Amazon. But it's all of them. I blame the Dalai Lama.

7jjwilson61
Jul. 24, 2009, 8:15pm

Each Dalai Lama is supposed to be reincarnation of the last one, so if the next human incarnation of the DL wrote a book, it could be argued that it would still be by the same person.

8melannen
Bearbeitet: Jul. 24, 2009, 8:50pm

... I am tempted to say that this should be an example of the "undead" author status, but that would be deeply, deeply insensitive.

But, no, I don't think "Dalai Lama" should be given a canonical name other than that, because either it's a title not a name and they shouldn't be combined, or they're all the same person and the name is H. H. the Dalai Lama.

(...although I suppose what we ought to do is figure out how Tibetan libraries catalog him.)

9DeusExLibrus
Jul. 24, 2009, 8:55pm

HHDL is actually what westerners call him. I read somewhere that he's actually got another title that Tibetans know him as, but it eludes me. He was apparently given the title "Dalai Lama" by Ghengis Khan of all people.

10rsterling
Jul. 24, 2009, 9:03pm

The LOC Authorities page has him listed as:
Bstan-ʼdzin-rgya-mtsho, Dalai Lama XIV, 1935-

Wikipedia provides this info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalai_Lama#The_origin_of_the_title_of_Dalai_Lama
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Dalai_Lama
Jetsun Jamphel Ngawang Lobsang Yeshe Tenzin Gyatso (born Lhamo Döndrub (Tibetan: ལྷ་མོ་དོན་འགྲུབ་; Wylie: Lha-mo Don-'grub; Chinese: 拉莫顿珠)

Dalai Lama should work as the canonical name in English, no?

11timspalding
Jul. 25, 2009, 3:22am

English: Dalai Lama. All his US-published books call him that. The long-forms should be, I think, listed as his legal name.

12brianeisley
Bearbeitet: Jan. 30, 2012, 10:58pm

I know it's been a while since the last post, but I just came across this. I'd like to point out that when Tenzin Gyatso dies, his successor will also be called the Dalai Lama, and once that person grows up will likely start writing as well; those books will probably also credit the author as "The Dalai Lama". So, at that point, we'll need to figure out some way to distinguish them.

I'd also note that the fifth and sixth Dalai Lamas, Lobsang Gyatso and Tsangyang Gyatso, were also prolific writers and have books in LibraryThing. The fifth is listed as Ven Lobsang Gyatso (short for "Venerable", another title); the sixth is called 6th Dalai Lama. This is pretty inconsistent.

Personally, my solution would be to refer to them either by name, "Tenzin Gyatso", or by number, "The 14th Dalai Lama" or "Dalai Lama XIV". But I'm open to suggestions.

Of course, this is further complicated by the fact that the Chinese government almost certainly intends to choose a successor themselves, which will create two claimants to the title. (They've already done this with another figure, the Panchen Lama.)

13rsterling
Jan. 30, 2012, 11:06pm

When there are books on LT by multiple individuals who have been the Dalai Lama, I would suggest using "splitting" the Dalai Lama page by dividing the books according to the individual authors, and then aliasing the splits to their alternate names.

14TLCrawford
Jan. 31, 2012, 8:13am

"His Holiness" and the numbering system are Christian traditions that the West has tried to put into service to make the Dalai Lama understandable to them.

As I understand it from my wife there is only one Dalai Lama, as #7 said when one body dies he, the Dalai Lama, is reincarnated into another. It, according to my wife, happens to all of us but the Dalai Lama is a special case. To steal from The Highlander, "There can be only one."

Therefore I would have to suggest something along the lines of "The Dalai Lama as Tenzin Gyatso" if there is a need to isolate his incarnations.

15marq
Jan. 31, 2012, 8:50am

There is also http://www.librarything.com/work/945748. Some people have entered it as by the second Dalai Lama (Dge-ʾdun-rgya-mtsho) although it is attributed to the translator.

16marq
Bearbeitet: Apr. 2, 2012, 9:49am

I've done some combining/separating of previous Dalai Lamas and tried to set a consistent form of canonical names. This form is based on how he is commonly referred to in Wikipedia.

Dalai Lama I Gendun Drup (1391–1474)
http://www.librarything.com/author/dgedungrubdalailamai

Dalai Lama II Gendun Gyatso Palzangpo (1475–1542)
http://www.librarything.com/author/dunrgyamtshodalailam

Dalai Lama III Sonam Gyatso (1543–1588)
http://www.librarything.com/author/bsodnamsrgyamtshodal

Dalai Lama V Ngawang Lobsang Gyatso (1617–1682)
http://www.librarything.com/author/agdbablobzargyamtsho

Dalai Lama VI Tsangyang Gyatso (1683–1706)
http://www.librarything.com/author/lamathdalai

Dalai Lama VII Kelzang Gyatso (1708–1757)
http://www.librarything.com/author/bskalbzargyamtshodal

I couldn't find any others except for the current one. Using this convention, he would be:

Dalai Lama XIV Tenzin Gyatso (1935- )

(Why don't the touchstones go to the links?)

17marq
Apr. 6, 2012, 8:34pm

They do now.

18anglemark
Jul. 6, 7:14am

On the Dalai Lama's author page, there is a note saying that his canonical name should "Dalai Lama", linking to this thread. However, in 2015, it was changed to "Dalai Lama XIV". Just pointing this out. I don't know if there was more discussion about this in 2015.

19jjwilson61
Jul. 6, 11:01am

>18 anglemark: Canonical Name isn't his legal name; it's the name he is most known as. So, no, don't change it.

20anglemark
Jul. 6, 11:42am

>19 jjwilson61: I wasn't talking about his legal name, just pointing out that someone has changed the canonical name. I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

21jjwilson61
Jul. 6, 12:16pm

>20 anglemark: Sorry. I thought you meant that his "legal" name had changed in 2015 and that the Canonical Name should be changed to match. IMO the name should be changed back to Dalai Lama

22SandraArdnas
Jul. 6, 12:20pm

There are other Dalai Lamas as authors now, so the number is needed to differentiate them. I'd update the DN