March Group Read - Fella Down a Hole, by Amy Sisson
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1LShelby
Alright everyone, it's time to get ready for the first ever Hobnob With Authors group read.
We're starting with a "slightly fantasy" short story, Fella Down a Hole: Unlikely Patron Saints, No. 2 which can be read for free at http://www.strangehorizons.com/2007/20070430/fella-f.shtml
This ~1300 word story was published professionally in the online magazine Strange Horizons in April 2007, and was written by Amy Sisson (amysisson), who is a member of the Science Fiction Writer's of America, has been on LibraryThing since 2007, and has over 5000 books listed in her library.
(Authors, don't forget that if you want to be eligible to have one of your own works chosen as a Hobnob Group read, you need to participate in the previous discussion thread.)
We're starting with a "slightly fantasy" short story, Fella Down a Hole: Unlikely Patron Saints, No. 2 which can be read for free at http://www.strangehorizons.com/2007/20070430/fella-f.shtml
This ~1300 word story was published professionally in the online magazine Strange Horizons in April 2007, and was written by Amy Sisson (amysisson), who is a member of the Science Fiction Writer's of America, has been on LibraryThing since 2007, and has over 5000 books listed in her library.
(Authors, don't forget that if you want to be eligible to have one of your own works chosen as a Hobnob Group read, you need to participate in the previous discussion thread.)
2LShelby
The time has come the time is now: The discussion thread for Fella Down a Hole is officially open.
... And I guess that means that I need to confess that I've never really done the whole "group discussion" thing before.
Would someone here please take pity on me, and kick us off by posting some "advice on how to participate in a group read discussion" or something? I could really use it.
... And I guess that means that I need to confess that I've never really done the whole "group discussion" thing before.
Would someone here please take pity on me, and kick us off by posting some "advice on how to participate in a group read discussion" or something? I could really use it.
3TimSharrock
The first thing to do is read the story! It does not take long...
4LShelby
>3 TimSharrock: "The first thing to do is read the story"
That sounds like very good advice, but unfortunately I'd figured that much out already.
Now what... express my initial reaction?
I think it goes: "Sparkly goes bye-bye. :( "
Something like that.
:)
That sounds like very good advice, but unfortunately I'd figured that much out already.
Now what... express my initial reaction?
I think it goes: "Sparkly goes bye-bye. :( "
Something like that.
:)
5Spaceface
I think the best idea is to just start and figure out how to actually do this as we go along!
For myself, the first thing to say about this story is that I liked it. I've learned a few things from it too: Coober Pedy for example, in South Australia, gets so hot they actually build houses underground (hence the phrase '...to dig out a house...'). It's also the world centre for mining opal and to '...noodle for potch...' means (I think) to scour the waste rock tailings for overlooked opals. I'm not sure (Amy can tell us herself later) but I think at one point the Australian government planned to dump radioactive waste in the region (down mine shafts?) - and 'Kupa piti' was the name of an Aboriginal group which protested (ultimately successfully) against this.
One thing I'm not at all sure about though is superstition - whether opals are said to bring either good luck or bad - because people seem to have believed both at one time or another. Can anyone else help with that, because it's clearly at the heart of the story.
For myself, the first thing to say about this story is that I liked it. I've learned a few things from it too: Coober Pedy for example, in South Australia, gets so hot they actually build houses underground (hence the phrase '...to dig out a house...'). It's also the world centre for mining opal and to '...noodle for potch...' means (I think) to scour the waste rock tailings for overlooked opals. I'm not sure (Amy can tell us herself later) but I think at one point the Australian government planned to dump radioactive waste in the region (down mine shafts?) - and 'Kupa piti' was the name of an Aboriginal group which protested (ultimately successfully) against this.
One thing I'm not at all sure about though is superstition - whether opals are said to bring either good luck or bad - because people seem to have believed both at one time or another. Can anyone else help with that, because it's clearly at the heart of the story.
6TimSharrock
It felt very Australian, and perhaps because the most recent Australian fiction was Andrea Host I was expecting, I think, a higher fantasy level than is there. I will read it again.
(edited to activate the touchstone)
(edited to activate the touchstone)
7LShelby
>6 TimSharrock: "I was expecting, I think, a higher fantasy level than is there."
Me too. When all is said and done, I don't think there necessarily were any fantasy elements at all. I mean, you can read it like there was, but you can read it like there weren't too.
I keep wondering if my disappointment end (not in the story, but at what happened in the story) was because I never quite bought into the deadliness of the situation? I wanted a solution that wouldn't sacrifice a resource that would be valuable to her in the future, and I was never truly convinced that such a solution wasn't out there to be found.
But my favorite part was definitely the conversation with "unlikely patron saint"... and just the saint herself: unlikely for sure, and yet somehow so plausible.
>5 Spaceface: "One thing I'm not at all sure about though is superstition - whether opals are said to bring either good luck or bad - because people seem to have believed both at one time or another. Can anyone else help with that, because it's clearly at the heart of the story."
So... um... if she dropped it instead of throwing it, would the outcome have been the same either way?
Because if the opal is unlucky the answer is yes. And if the opal is lucky, then the answer should be no.
But the answer should also be no if the opal isn't either lucky or unlucky, and is, in fact, just a pretty rock.
Me too. When all is said and done, I don't think there necessarily were any fantasy elements at all. I mean, you can read it like there was, but you can read it like there weren't too.
I keep wondering if my disappointment end (not in the story, but at what happened in the story) was because I never quite bought into the deadliness of the situation? I wanted a solution that wouldn't sacrifice a resource that would be valuable to her in the future, and I was never truly convinced that such a solution wasn't out there to be found.
But my favorite part was definitely the conversation with "unlikely patron saint"... and just the saint herself: unlikely for sure, and yet somehow so plausible.
>5 Spaceface: "One thing I'm not at all sure about though is superstition - whether opals are said to bring either good luck or bad - because people seem to have believed both at one time or another. Can anyone else help with that, because it's clearly at the heart of the story."
So... um... if she dropped it instead of throwing it, would the outcome have been the same either way?
Because if the opal is unlucky the answer is yes. And if the opal is lucky, then the answer should be no.
But the answer should also be no if the opal isn't either lucky or unlucky, and is, in fact, just a pretty rock.
8amysisson
Is it appropriate to weigh in, or should I wait a while longer? I'm fine either way. I've never done this before so I'm not sure.....
9TimSharrock
>8 amysisson: dive right in, I would think
10elenchus
I find the story assured, the sort that after reading seems so obvious in its structure and voice. Not obvious in the sense of giving things away or unsubtle, but as though necessary, had to be written just that way. And it packs in so much in such a brief space.
Adore how Miss Ames's personality comes through in just a few lines, I'm immediately reassured that Sarah Anne's trust is well-placed. It seems clear to the reader what happened with Miss Ames's sudden disappearance, though Sarah Anne doesn't seem to have quite grasped it yet.
The fantastic elements are restrained but unavoidable, I think: apart from Sarah Anne speaking with someone "here and gone", who very clearly isn't down the shaft with her, there's the evocation of the Dream Time and what I interpreted as the impetus behind Sarah Anne's pending rescue. (I take it as given she will be rescued, but acknowledge the story itself supports other interpretations.) The opals are emblematic of a power infused in the land, protecting or endangering those living there.
I'm curious what others make of Sarah Anne's decision to throw the opal up * even as she confesses she's both obedient and trusts Miss Ames's direction. "Let it go," says Miss Ames, and like Sarah Anne I first understand that to mean "drop it". But Sarah Anne's obedience isn't blind: "Oh Sarah Anne, didn't I teach you better than that?" and she questions that interpretation, opting instead to throw it above the shaft's lip, to float in the sun. Nevertheless, it falls after all, which I take to be another nod to the fantastic: it's possible but scarcely credible to think her brothers see the opal's parabola as it briefly appears above the surface. Rather, it would appear instead to have summoned them, perhaps one of the secret purposes of a floater. Sarah Anne lets it go, literally but also her fixation on material value. All of which seems to reward her decision to wait for something better, her true ticket out of town.
A really elegant story, haunting in its spare evocation of place and Sarah Anne's earlier life and looming destiny. So pleased this thread introduced me to it.
* ETA I'd forgotten LShelby asked the same question, as I'd read that post before I'd read the story itself. I take it as necessary for Sarah Anne to throw the opal up, and not merely drop it. Though I see upon a second reading that in either case, the opal is likely to have hit the oil drum beneath her, probably causing a loud enough noise to summon anyone in the area, as her brothers appear to be. Still, I think there is more to the impending rescue than the noise of the stone, which is perhaps necessary but insufficient. Something to explain the coincidence of Sarah Anne's timing as to when to throw, and her brothers being just there, at that time. (shrug) As LShelby also points out, it can be read without any recourse to supernatural elements. For myself, I prefer to see something more than the people, an elemental force (Dream Time and so forth).
Adore how Miss Ames's personality comes through in just a few lines, I'm immediately reassured that Sarah Anne's trust is well-placed. It seems clear to the reader what happened with Miss Ames's sudden disappearance, though Sarah Anne doesn't seem to have quite grasped it yet.
The fantastic elements are restrained but unavoidable, I think: apart from Sarah Anne speaking with someone "here and gone", who very clearly isn't down the shaft with her, there's the evocation of the Dream Time and what I interpreted as the impetus behind Sarah Anne's pending rescue. (I take it as given she will be rescued, but acknowledge the story itself supports other interpretations.) The opals are emblematic of a power infused in the land, protecting or endangering those living there.
I'm curious what others make of Sarah Anne's decision to throw the opal up * even as she confesses she's both obedient and trusts Miss Ames's direction. "Let it go," says Miss Ames, and like Sarah Anne I first understand that to mean "drop it". But Sarah Anne's obedience isn't blind: "Oh Sarah Anne, didn't I teach you better than that?" and she questions that interpretation, opting instead to throw it above the shaft's lip, to float in the sun. Nevertheless, it falls after all, which I take to be another nod to the fantastic: it's possible but scarcely credible to think her brothers see the opal's parabola as it briefly appears above the surface. Rather, it would appear instead to have summoned them, perhaps one of the secret purposes of a floater. Sarah Anne lets it go, literally but also her fixation on material value. All of which seems to reward her decision to wait for something better, her true ticket out of town.
A really elegant story, haunting in its spare evocation of place and Sarah Anne's earlier life and looming destiny. So pleased this thread introduced me to it.
* ETA I'd forgotten LShelby asked the same question, as I'd read that post before I'd read the story itself. I take it as necessary for Sarah Anne to throw the opal up, and not merely drop it. Though I see upon a second reading that in either case, the opal is likely to have hit the oil drum beneath her, probably causing a loud enough noise to summon anyone in the area, as her brothers appear to be. Still, I think there is more to the impending rescue than the noise of the stone, which is perhaps necessary but insufficient. Something to explain the coincidence of Sarah Anne's timing as to when to throw, and her brothers being just there, at that time. (shrug) As LShelby also points out, it can be read without any recourse to supernatural elements. For myself, I prefer to see something more than the people, an elemental force (Dream Time and so forth).
11amysisson
I can't tell all of you how fun it has been for me to see your comments. I'd like to respond to each individually.
^5 Spaceface, a long time ago (longer than I care to admit), I spent an exchange semester at the University of Sydney. By coincidence, the five months I was there were the exact five months that Qantas Airlines had their only labor strike in history, so to travel around Australia I had to take the equivalent of a Greyhound bus. In retrospect I'm glad because Australia is a Really Big Country and I don't think I would really have absorbed that had I not taken the long way.
During one of my bus trips we went through Coober Pedy, stopping only an hour for dinner, but it made a bit of an impression. Also, at the Univ. of Sydney I studied Australian literature, and came to know the work of Janette Turner Hospital, who has set a lot of her work in outback country. Finally, I've always been struck by stories of teachers who go to remote locations (Alaska, etc.) and hopefully have a positive impact on their students there. So I think these elements came together for me in this story.
I did do a little research for the story by looking up articles (I'm a librarian, which makes that easy!). That's where I saw phrases like "noodling for potch," which means exactly what you said. I have to admit I'm not a rigorous researcher; I'm generally looking for just enough detail to give a story the flavor I'm looking for. I do not remember reading about a proposal to dump radioactive waste, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that was true -- although hopefully a very short-lived idea!
I also don't remember reading much about good luck/bad luck, but yes, miners (especially for something considered rare and precious, as opposed to, say, coal) do seem to be a superstitious lot!
I hope you'll forgive me this brag, but one of my proudest moments as a writer came a few years ago. My husband Paul was working with the Hayabusa spacecraft mission, which was a Japanese asteroid sample return capsule that landed in the Australian outback near Woomera. Paul was basically there to coordinate between NASA, the Australian airforce, and JAXA (Japanese space agency), so for the actual landing he was simply contigency back-up, and was sent with another person up near Coober Pedy. They made friends with some residents, and months later Paul sent them a link to my story. They told him they couldn't believe it wasn't written by an Australian, and I was over the moon.
^5 Spaceface, a long time ago (longer than I care to admit), I spent an exchange semester at the University of Sydney. By coincidence, the five months I was there were the exact five months that Qantas Airlines had their only labor strike in history, so to travel around Australia I had to take the equivalent of a Greyhound bus. In retrospect I'm glad because Australia is a Really Big Country and I don't think I would really have absorbed that had I not taken the long way.
During one of my bus trips we went through Coober Pedy, stopping only an hour for dinner, but it made a bit of an impression. Also, at the Univ. of Sydney I studied Australian literature, and came to know the work of Janette Turner Hospital, who has set a lot of her work in outback country. Finally, I've always been struck by stories of teachers who go to remote locations (Alaska, etc.) and hopefully have a positive impact on their students there. So I think these elements came together for me in this story.
I did do a little research for the story by looking up articles (I'm a librarian, which makes that easy!). That's where I saw phrases like "noodling for potch," which means exactly what you said. I have to admit I'm not a rigorous researcher; I'm generally looking for just enough detail to give a story the flavor I'm looking for. I do not remember reading about a proposal to dump radioactive waste, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that was true -- although hopefully a very short-lived idea!
I also don't remember reading much about good luck/bad luck, but yes, miners (especially for something considered rare and precious, as opposed to, say, coal) do seem to be a superstitious lot!
I hope you'll forgive me this brag, but one of my proudest moments as a writer came a few years ago. My husband Paul was working with the Hayabusa spacecraft mission, which was a Japanese asteroid sample return capsule that landed in the Australian outback near Woomera. Paul was basically there to coordinate between NASA, the Australian airforce, and JAXA (Japanese space agency), so for the actual landing he was simply contigency back-up, and was sent with another person up near Coober Pedy. They made friends with some residents, and months later Paul sent them a link to my story. They told him they couldn't believe it wasn't written by an Australian, and I was over the moon.
12amysisson
^6 TimSharrock and ^7 LShelby
Yes, I admit the fantasy element is extremely slight. I think of this as a ghost story, and in my mind it's absolutely there, but it was kind of deliberate to write it in such a way that it didn't have to be a ghost story. For that matter, she doesn't have to survive. But in my mind she survives, and she survives specifically because she is helped by the ghost of her former teacher who also fell down a shaft but was never found. To answer your question directly, if she dropped her opal instead of throwing it she probably wouldn't have been found. She doesn't have a voice left to call out and she's somewhat delirious, so by the time the search party would have gotten there, she wouldn't have been able to respond and they might not have looked in that particular shaft. The light glints off the opal briefly when she throws it, and it draws the attention of her brothers who are part of the search party.
I don't know whether it helps or hurts to have the context of the other shorts in the thematic series. Of the other three published, one is absolutely a ghost/afterlife story, and the other two are also very slight elements of fantasy that I think tip towards "yes, there is supernatural" versus "well, maybe there isn't...." What I'm getting at is that if you have these all together, it's probably a more obvious pattern and a reader would likely conclude it's a collection of slightly supernatural stories. Individually, I think it's easier to point out that the supernatural element doesn't have to be there. So I can see why that might be disappointing for readers who want those things to be more overt.
Yes, I admit the fantasy element is extremely slight. I think of this as a ghost story, and in my mind it's absolutely there, but it was kind of deliberate to write it in such a way that it didn't have to be a ghost story. For that matter, she doesn't have to survive. But in my mind she survives, and she survives specifically because she is helped by the ghost of her former teacher who also fell down a shaft but was never found. To answer your question directly, if she dropped her opal instead of throwing it she probably wouldn't have been found. She doesn't have a voice left to call out and she's somewhat delirious, so by the time the search party would have gotten there, she wouldn't have been able to respond and they might not have looked in that particular shaft. The light glints off the opal briefly when she throws it, and it draws the attention of her brothers who are part of the search party.
I don't know whether it helps or hurts to have the context of the other shorts in the thematic series. Of the other three published, one is absolutely a ghost/afterlife story, and the other two are also very slight elements of fantasy that I think tip towards "yes, there is supernatural" versus "well, maybe there isn't...." What I'm getting at is that if you have these all together, it's probably a more obvious pattern and a reader would likely conclude it's a collection of slightly supernatural stories. Individually, I think it's easier to point out that the supernatural element doesn't have to be there. So I can see why that might be disappointing for readers who want those things to be more overt.
13amysisson
Here is an image of a sign (linking because of copyright -- I don't think it would be appropriate to actually post it here):
http://stephaniesievers.com/2013/05/26/coober-pedy-underground-outback-village/
Signs like these appear around Pedy. My husband brought me home some fridge magnets with the signs!
http://stephaniesievers.com/2013/05/26/coober-pedy-underground-outback-village/
Signs like these appear around Pedy. My husband brought me home some fridge magnets with the signs!
14amysisson
^10 elenchus
I read your post last night and was really grateful that you took the time to consider it so carefully!
I confess that the opal hitting the drum loudly enough for the searchers to hear it had not occurred to me, nor had the idea of the opal "summoning" the searchers of its own volition. I like that, though, and wish I'd thought of it! I can see how it could strain belief, that her brothers, among the search party, could have seen the opal when it was thrown. Particularly since it wasn't yet cut, it really couldn't have caught the light. I think of it as catching the light, and of course Sarah Anne can see that in her delirium, but I admit that it really couldn't have. Can I retro-interpret to say that one of her brothers caught the motion of it out of the corner of his eye? They were quite nearby by then -- Miss Ames' timing is critical.
This is also the first story I wrote that I consciously used metaphor. I wondered at the time if I was overdoing it (words tumbling and clicking together like opals in my pocket, etc.), but I remember feeling pleased in the end that it came across more naturally than I feared it might. I'm not sure I could manage that in a story again unless it somehow felt very personal to me, as this one did. Metaphor can be a tricky thing, and I think as a reader, it's a fine line for me whether I'm intrigued or annoyed by a metaphor.
I read your post last night and was really grateful that you took the time to consider it so carefully!
I confess that the opal hitting the drum loudly enough for the searchers to hear it had not occurred to me, nor had the idea of the opal "summoning" the searchers of its own volition. I like that, though, and wish I'd thought of it! I can see how it could strain belief, that her brothers, among the search party, could have seen the opal when it was thrown. Particularly since it wasn't yet cut, it really couldn't have caught the light. I think of it as catching the light, and of course Sarah Anne can see that in her delirium, but I admit that it really couldn't have. Can I retro-interpret to say that one of her brothers caught the motion of it out of the corner of his eye? They were quite nearby by then -- Miss Ames' timing is critical.
This is also the first story I wrote that I consciously used metaphor. I wondered at the time if I was overdoing it (words tumbling and clicking together like opals in my pocket, etc.), but I remember feeling pleased in the end that it came across more naturally than I feared it might. I'm not sure I could manage that in a story again unless it somehow felt very personal to me, as this one did. Metaphor can be a tricky thing, and I think as a reader, it's a fine line for me whether I'm intrigued or annoyed by a metaphor.
15elenchus
Thanks for taking the time to respond to us individually, I love learning a little about the creative process behind stories I've enjoyed.
Are any of the other stories in the Unlikely Patron Saints cycle available online?
Are any of the other stories in the Unlikely Patron Saints cycle available online?
16amysisson
^15 yes, and thank you for asking!
This one is called "Minghun". The other two published ones aren't available online yet, but I'm getting there... (working on a collection)
http://www.strangehorizons.com/2007/20070924/minghun-f.shtml
This one is called "Minghun". The other two published ones aren't available online yet, but I'm getting there... (working on a collection)
http://www.strangehorizons.com/2007/20070924/minghun-f.shtml
17LShelby
>12 amysisson: "So I can see why that might be disappointing for readers who want those things to be more overt."
I wasn't disappointed. I actually really like that "it could be, but maybe it isn't" feel. It's my favorite way to do ghost stories and other supernatural tales, because... how to put this... What I love about "high" fantasy is that it makes up its own rules, not that it breaks rules. Fantasy elements inserted into a more "real" environment that just ignore the rules, don't work for me at all. But slipping your fantasy elements between the rules... that is awesome.
But when I don't know which kind of story I'm getting, I do sometimes flounder a bit when it came to "reading" the setting. If you throw me an unfamiliar situation, and I think I'm reading fantasy or science fiction, I start trying to put together a new set of rules to support it, and if I know I'm not, I instead go looking for where it fits into the real rules.
I hope that made sense.
I think your story was very true to itself, but I keep associating "Omni" with "Science Fiction", (even though you did warn us otherwise) so I had my head in the wrong gear there for a bit. :(
>16 amysisson:
Ack! We never got your stories added to my free stories list. How did that happen? Did I just forget?
ETA: Oops, Braino! Not Omni, but Strange Horizons. ::bangs self on head::
I wasn't disappointed. I actually really like that "it could be, but maybe it isn't" feel. It's my favorite way to do ghost stories and other supernatural tales, because... how to put this... What I love about "high" fantasy is that it makes up its own rules, not that it breaks rules. Fantasy elements inserted into a more "real" environment that just ignore the rules, don't work for me at all. But slipping your fantasy elements between the rules... that is awesome.
But when I don't know which kind of story I'm getting, I do sometimes flounder a bit when it came to "reading" the setting. If you throw me an unfamiliar situation, and I think I'm reading fantasy or science fiction, I start trying to put together a new set of rules to support it, and if I know I'm not, I instead go looking for where it fits into the real rules.
I hope that made sense.
I think your story was very true to itself, but I keep associating "Omni" with "Science Fiction", (even though you did warn us otherwise) so I had my head in the wrong gear there for a bit. :(
>16 amysisson:
Ack! We never got your stories added to my free stories list. How did that happen? Did I just forget?
ETA: Oops, Braino! Not Omni, but Strange Horizons. ::bangs self on head::
18elenchus
"Minghun" is perhaps as good as "Fella Down A Hole"! More overt in its address of fantasy, as you hinted above, and whether it's that or that the pump has been primed, I found "Minghun" more poignant.
Do you have these stories mapped out, perhaps even already written? Or did you set out to write a set of stories in this thematic series, and try to shape ideas you have to fit the theme?
Based on the two I've read, I think you should pursue the idea of a collection published together. Good quality of writing, and each brings a very different sense of place which I very much like.
Do you have these stories mapped out, perhaps even already written? Or did you set out to write a set of stories in this thematic series, and try to shape ideas you have to fit the theme?
Based on the two I've read, I think you should pursue the idea of a collection published together. Good quality of writing, and each brings a very different sense of place which I very much like.
19amysisson
^17 LShelby: But slipping your fantasy elements between the rules... that is awesome.
What a lovely way to put that!!!
Re: the free stories list, that's my fault, not yours. I looked at the guidelines posting and realized I needed a few minutes, went away... and forgot to go back. I will go remedy that this afternoon!
What a lovely way to put that!!!
Re: the free stories list, that's my fault, not yours. I looked at the guidelines posting and realized I needed a few minutes, went away... and forgot to go back. I will go remedy that this afternoon!
20amysisson
^18 elenchus
Thanks a bunch for the kind words on Minghun! That one came out of a single New York Times article about the practice of minghun still happening today in very rural parts of China. Then a little research to get the flavor again.... (I haven't had to do research for all of them; some are settings I'm familiar enough with that they don't need research.)
I definitely don't have the stories mapped out ahead of time, and in fact made a sort of pledge to myself that I would not try to force them. There are other times, for other reasons, that I deliberately set out to write for a certain market or a certain purpose, but to me the nice thing about the Unlikely Patron Saints is that there's no hurry, so no rushing it. I have a couple of "failed" ones, in fact, that will never be part of the series, and that's perfectly OK with me.
The funny thing is, it became a thematic series by a weird combination of accident and design. The first one I wrote and published is called "Clara, She Was: Unlikely Patron Saints, No. 3". That story started out with a sentence that just came into my head completely: "Clara, she was, our Lady Patron Saint of the City Squirrels." It was because when I was going to library school, I drove down these pretty, tree-shaded streets, and the city squirrels constantly darted in and out of the city traffic, giving me a little heart attack each time. So I wanted them to have a protector.
Then, when I finished the story, and thought "Hey! Maybe I can do something with these unlikely patron saints," I numbered the Clara story number 3 even though it was the only one I'd written or even thought of. For some reason, in my head that was committing to a series, whereas if I made it number 1 it wouldn't have to the same degree. (Who said writers were rational?!)
In fact, I'm not sure but I still may not have a number 1 in the series.... Maybe this was a mistake because now I feel like it has to be better than the others! ;-)
Right now, the published ones are:
Fella Down a Hole: Unlikely Patron Saints, No. 2
Clara, She Was: Unlikely Patron Saints, No. 3
gray's boadicea: unlikely patron saints, no. 4 *
Minghun: Unlikely Patron Saints, No. 5
(*the lack of capitalization is deliberate -- that was published in 2005 ... in modified text speak)
I feel as though I'm going on and on and I do apologize, but one last thing.... I paid a graphic artist to design a cover for a collection, calling it "The Unlikely Patron Saints and Other Stories", figuring I could put in some other previously published stories as well. The artist used stock artwork, and we were unable to find the kind of image I had in mind, so we chose something completely different that I still loved -- and now I want to write a story to match the image. I've tried once and the story wasn't nearly good enough, so I'll try again one of these days.
Thanks a bunch for the kind words on Minghun! That one came out of a single New York Times article about the practice of minghun still happening today in very rural parts of China. Then a little research to get the flavor again.... (I haven't had to do research for all of them; some are settings I'm familiar enough with that they don't need research.)
I definitely don't have the stories mapped out ahead of time, and in fact made a sort of pledge to myself that I would not try to force them. There are other times, for other reasons, that I deliberately set out to write for a certain market or a certain purpose, but to me the nice thing about the Unlikely Patron Saints is that there's no hurry, so no rushing it. I have a couple of "failed" ones, in fact, that will never be part of the series, and that's perfectly OK with me.
The funny thing is, it became a thematic series by a weird combination of accident and design. The first one I wrote and published is called "Clara, She Was: Unlikely Patron Saints, No. 3". That story started out with a sentence that just came into my head completely: "Clara, she was, our Lady Patron Saint of the City Squirrels." It was because when I was going to library school, I drove down these pretty, tree-shaded streets, and the city squirrels constantly darted in and out of the city traffic, giving me a little heart attack each time. So I wanted them to have a protector.
Then, when I finished the story, and thought "Hey! Maybe I can do something with these unlikely patron saints," I numbered the Clara story number 3 even though it was the only one I'd written or even thought of. For some reason, in my head that was committing to a series, whereas if I made it number 1 it wouldn't have to the same degree. (Who said writers were rational?!)
In fact, I'm not sure but I still may not have a number 1 in the series.... Maybe this was a mistake because now I feel like it has to be better than the others! ;-)
Right now, the published ones are:
Fella Down a Hole: Unlikely Patron Saints, No. 2
Clara, She Was: Unlikely Patron Saints, No. 3
gray's boadicea: unlikely patron saints, no. 4 *
Minghun: Unlikely Patron Saints, No. 5
(*the lack of capitalization is deliberate -- that was published in 2005 ... in modified text speak)
I feel as though I'm going on and on and I do apologize, but one last thing.... I paid a graphic artist to design a cover for a collection, calling it "The Unlikely Patron Saints and Other Stories", figuring I could put in some other previously published stories as well. The artist used stock artwork, and we were unable to find the kind of image I had in mind, so we chose something completely different that I still loved -- and now I want to write a story to match the image. I've tried once and the story wasn't nearly good enough, so I'll try again one of these days.
21elenchus
Love the backstory on the series, and on Clara. Keep us posted here on your efforts to get the others online, I'm interested to read about the other saints.
22amysisson
^ backtracking to #17 LShelby
You said "But when I don't know which kind of story I'm getting, I do sometimes flounder a bit when it came to "reading" the setting. If you throw me an unfamiliar situation, and I think I'm reading fantasy or science fiction, I start trying to put together a new set of rules to support it, and if I know I'm not, I instead go looking for where it fits into the real rules."
Yes! It even happens to me sometimes when I know perfectly well I'm not reading SF or F -- I'm so used to reading it, that I keep expecting an SFnal explanation. It happened to me with Code Name Verity.
I'm in an in-person critique group for SF&F writing, and we often have to remind each other of things like "now, when you say 'his head exploded,' I was thinking you could mean that literally, since nanotechnology/biomedical advances/etc. etc." (Not a great example, but hopefully you know what I mean!)
You said "But when I don't know which kind of story I'm getting, I do sometimes flounder a bit when it came to "reading" the setting. If you throw me an unfamiliar situation, and I think I'm reading fantasy or science fiction, I start trying to put together a new set of rules to support it, and if I know I'm not, I instead go looking for where it fits into the real rules."
Yes! It even happens to me sometimes when I know perfectly well I'm not reading SF or F -- I'm so used to reading it, that I keep expecting an SFnal explanation. It happened to me with Code Name Verity.
I'm in an in-person critique group for SF&F writing, and we often have to remind each other of things like "now, when you say 'his head exploded,' I was thinking you could mean that literally, since nanotechnology/biomedical advances/etc. etc." (Not a great example, but hopefully you know what I mean!)
23zjakkelien
I'm a little late, I accidentally set my talk section to 'your posts', and as a result have been missing all the new threads in the last 1-2 weeks...
I read the story and I liked it, but I must say I liked the Chinese one (linked in post 16) even better. This might also be because I read the discussion on the Australian one before I read the story. On the other hand, it was the discussion that convinced me to read it in the first place. I think the Australian story was a bit too open for me, too much left unsaid, where on the other hand I would have preferred a little less openness at the very end of the Chinese story. Still, I really liked that one, it is very sympathetic, and I love how Qin Liu slowly becomes more aware and how sheforms a relationship where before there was just a despairing confusion. I think most of all I love how that relationship is a lesbian one, showing the afterlife transcending human prejudice. Overall, the very idea of the story is just lovely. Even though it's so short, it just stuck with me today...
I read the story and I liked it, but I must say I liked the Chinese one (linked in post 16) even better. This might also be because I read the discussion on the Australian one before I read the story. On the other hand, it was the discussion that convinced me to read it in the first place. I think the Australian story was a bit too open for me, too much left unsaid, where on the other hand I would have preferred a little less openness at the very end of the Chinese story. Still, I really liked that one, it is very sympathetic, and I love how Qin Liu slowly becomes more aware and how she
24LShelby
I have just announced the next read: http://www.librarything.com/topic/171319
Feel free to continue posting to this thread, though.
Until the next discussion officially starts on the 16th, I will count any further author contributions on this thread toward eligibility for the April read. :)
Feel free to continue posting to this thread, though.
Until the next discussion officially starts on the 16th, I will count any further author contributions on this thread toward eligibility for the April read. :)
25amysisson
>23 zjakkelien:
Thank you for the thoughtful comments. I can completely understand why the Australian story might feel as though there is too much left unsaid. It is such a struggle, knowing how much to say and how much not to say.
Thank you for the thoughtful comments. I can completely understand why the Australian story might feel as though there is too much left unsaid. It is such a struggle, knowing how much to say and how much not to say.
26zjakkelien
>25 amysisson: I can imagine, because I don't like it if things are spelled out too much, either. I guess it's a fine line to walk...
27reading_fox
I wasn't taken by this one. I'm not sure why really. I guess I like things to be a bit more explicit and so the vagueness of whether she lives or dies and what the opal actually is didn't really appeal. I liked the section with the teach and I could certainly see the world setting being an interesting one. The collection might work better than just an isolated story giving more detailed background to each of the stories and expectations within them.
28amysisson
>27 reading_fox:
Sorry it wasn't your cup of tea, but I totally understand -- and thanks for taking the time to read it!
Sorry it wasn't your cup of tea, but I totally understand -- and thanks for taking the time to read it!
29amysisson
I just wanted to share some good news with some coincidental timing.... I just found out that "Fella" will be republished as a podcast on "Toasted Cake". I've never had one of my stories narrated so I'm pretty excited about this.
Looking forward to the next group discussion too!
Looking forward to the next group discussion too!
31Tumler100
Loved Fella Down a Hole, especialle the end.
The possible faith of the missing teacher where not lost on me.
The ambigious, yet clear cut end of Sarah Anne's story made my mind sparkle with delight.
Congratulations, here's a toast for your podcast
The possible faith of the missing teacher where not lost on me.
The ambigious, yet clear cut end of Sarah Anne's story made my mind sparkle with delight.
Congratulations, here's a toast for your podcast
33amysisson
I had meant to post a link to the podcast of this story, which came out a few weeks ago:
http://toastedcake.com/2014/06/toasted-cake-112-fella-down-a-hole-by-amy-sisson....
I really love the way Tina Connolly read it. She notes at the end that she did not attempt an Australian accent, but I think the way she did it worked very well.
http://toastedcake.com/2014/06/toasted-cake-112-fella-down-a-hole-by-amy-sisson....
I really love the way Tina Connolly read it. She notes at the end that she did not attempt an Australian accent, but I think the way she did it worked very well.
34amysisson
I hope it's alright to resurrect this Hobnob topic long enough to say that my story "Minghun", which we discussed above, is now also out as a podcast at Glittership. The reader does a lovely job, especially in pronouncing the title and the Chinese names in a way far more authentic than I could.
http://www.glittership.com/2015/10/07/episode-17-minghun-by-amy-sisson/
http://www.glittership.com/2015/10/07/episode-17-minghun-by-amy-sisson/
