Introductions...

Hooray! We're up to 31 members! I, citygirl, am an INTJ working in an analytical field but with delusions of writing talent. I'm interested in just about everything except science. I mostly read fiction, a lot of mystery/suspense, a lot of women's stories, classics, etc. and I find this MB stuff absolutely fascinating. I'd love to know how your mind works. Welcome!

I'm male, ISTJ (according to a fairly recent test at my workplace, as I mentioned in another thread), and I have been into science and technology since I was a kid. Math was my favourite subject in school; always liked to systemize and see structure around me. Later on I have developed my interest in social science and the humanities as well, such as government (law) and linguistics, looking for the structural elements in society.

I studied computer science at the university, and then ended up working at the same (state-owned) university as a research engineer and system administrator. The Myers-Briggs test result (ISTJ/Inspector Guardian) essentially confirmed my choice of profession as a public servant, focused on one of my major interests, technology, rather than on, say, fiscal issues.

My private library is geared towards science, technology, languages (I have dictionaries rather than books on linguistics), communication, history (in particular history of science and technology), law, encyclopedias and other works of general reference. As the ISTJ personality has been characterized, "Just the facts, ma'm!"

My collection of fiction is a lot smaller. To the extent I read fiction at all, I'm drawn towards science fiction (Jules Verne, Douglas Noël Adams), but also stories with a substantial portion of factual content (such as imaginary characters in real-world locations or during historical events). I can enjoy fantasy literature (J.R.R. Tolkien), but I prefer a factual or semi-factual biography about someone who actually once lived (such as Hertig Larson).

And of course, what appeals to me about Jungian typology is the structure it brings to an otherwise rather "fuzzy" field of study, namely the human mind. I'm aware that this crude way of classifying minds doesn't necessarily reflect reality in the best possible way, but here I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of scientific certainty for the structured view this theory represents. You can always do a bit of statistical analysis to find interesting, odd, or plain unbelievable correlations!

sm5por, the promise of statistical correlations appeals to me too. There was website that had the results of a survey figuring out which types were most likely to complete school, use spirituality as a coping mechanism, watch lots of tv, report a happy marriage, etc. I'll see if I can find it again.

sm5por:
Welcome to the group. It has grown quite a bit, so obviously it fills a need.

Hello, everyone.

I am type INFP, read mostly non-fiction and well ... this looks to be a very interesting group and I'm glad to be here!

Welcome. Glad to have you. I'm looking forward to hearing (reading) your thoughts on typing, etc.

Hello, citygirl - thank you for inviting me to the group! As usual, it occurs to me to introduce myself ONLY after chattering freely in all the other threads in the group :-)

Like you, I'm a female INTJ, and a technical writer by trade. I'm interested in almost everything except the sciences - with selected exceptions (e.g. popular astronomy is hard not to like, and I can always be won over by taxonomy when it involves dog breeds and photos of cute puppies).

For some reason I've been reading primarily non-fiction in recent years, although I love good fiction, too. My tendency is to develop a monomania for a particular subject area and devour everything I can ... at the moment, that subject is Japanese tea ceremony. I'm also fond of languages and language study, comparative religion, progressive politics, badgers (!), and lots of other things. The fiction I own tends either toward the classics (Jane Austen, John Donne) or fantasy/magic realism (Little, Big, Not Wanted on the Voyage). My secret vice is the consumption of mysteries/detective fiction/psychological thrillers, but these are usually borrowed from the library and are seldom reflected on LibraryThing.

I'm also a true MBTI enthusiast, since as a system I've found it to be both theoretically fascinating and pragmatically useful. (There's a Spockian INTJ sentence for you!) Myers-Briggs has illuminated other people's "baffling" behaviour for me, and helped me appreciate and value the ways in which they are different from me, more times than I can say.

Hi, I'm an INTJ and for me books (among other things) are portals into the world of ideas. I'm a very big picture person (which was the challenge for me in secondary school until I got to college).

I read a balance of fiction and non-fiction. The fiction I choice to read is usually connected to some time I'm into at the time, like a topic in philosophy, evolution, some historical period, etc. I read a quite bit of science fiction, history,  (of just about anything...I love understanding how things evolve over time) and science (sorry I like science :) )

Although I'm not a detail guy I do recognize and focus on details that I think are critical or important to what I'm involved in. My favorite way to learn about a new topic/idea is to read books that provide me an overarching view and then go in and address important and interesting details of the topic.

I've had several interesting working experiences (Program-Manager, Technology Investment Analyst, Aero/Astro Engineer, and I'm currently a secondary school teacher at a small private school.)

I've used Myers-Briggs lots in the past to help guide my life. I've have found it to be very useful.

Try Working Together: A Personality Centered Approach to Management. It is excellent in understanding the styles of others.

I'm enjoying the group discussions. Thanks!

Welcome, chammeke and stevetempo. I don't mind a bit of magic realism, but I've only been able to get into fantasy literature when it's something that's risen to the top, i.e., The Wizard of Oz, The Mists of Avalon (I'm not even sure what's classified as fantasy; please tell me.), or it's tied to other themes that I find interesting, again Mists or Wicked. I don't like much sci fi (but it's pretty much all my husband will read, fictionwise). Like you, stevetempo, my mind immediately goes to "pertinent" details, which makes me a pretty speedy and accurate analyst. So when I read non-fiction, if it's not a narrative, I don't read it front to back. I just go for whatever will be helpful in answering the question that got me to pick up the book in the first place. I think I must be an "extreme" N, because I've had to make an effort to slow down & pick up building-block details at times. On one hand, being able to move swiftly to the heart of the matter is very valuable to me, personally and in my legal work, but on the other hand, it's kind of like a handicap that I pass right over the details that others cherish. That was one thing law school taught me: stop to make sure you can back up your impressions with facts and source materials. I find it a real pain, though. I get frustrated when some people don't take me at my word that something is correct when I know I'm right. That's a fault of mine. Effective communication with others requires that you speak to them in their language.

citygirl: Effective communication with others requires that you speak to them in their language.

My experience with the antics of the marketing business, and in particular with its intrusive Internet variant, spamming, has led me to pretty much the same conclusion: Any communication is subject to the conditions of the recipient. No matter how much you yell at someone or what authority you possess over that person, if they still don't understand you, you are doing something wrong. It may be your vocabulary, your attitude, or just about anything else.

Whenever I'm told "You simply must read this", my response is "Nope" and that's usually where the discussion ends.

Hello :) Nice to meet you all. I'm an INFJ, and am a writer as well as a reader. I like to read a lot of different kinds of novels, as long as they have some substance and complexity (by substance I don't mean pretentious literary novels; I don't tend to like those. I just mean it has to be able to keep my mind engaged) and preferably characters I can relate to. I don't tend to read historical novels, mysteries, or thrillers; I also don't read very much nonfiction. My favorite genres are science fiction and fantasy, though in these genres I prefer books that are somewhat close to the modern world (urban fantasy; near-future science fiction).

Nice to meet you too, zcannon. Welcome, I'm looking forward to your INFJ point of view. I don't know if I know any. Rare type, you know.

Hello all. I'm an INFP as I have stated elsewhere. I just (like 2 minutes ago) too an indicator on line and as usual I came out INFP again (altough my F and P are moderate scores.)

If you have the urge to test yourself again, go here;

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

I tested myself again using the test in Please Understand Me II, to see how extreme certain letters are. To my surprise the least extreme letter was the J. I had 0 responses for the F. Between my hyperrational mother's influence (to be fair, my father's an NT, too) and law school.... I don't think I like being that extreme. I think I'd better surround myself with Fs and hope it rubs off on me.

I've found that just using a short description about what the letter pairs mean to figure out whether I was a T or F or I or E was a much better way to figure out my type than any of the online tests. Once you figure out what you think you are then looking at that description and the descriptions for the four types that are one letter off from that should verify it.

BTW, I'm an INTP. In my teenage and young adult life I read a lot of fantasy series, but most of my adult life I've gravitated to non-fiction, science and history mostly.

Am I the only E in the group? I am an ENTP, although I'm really slightly E. The tests are useful for figuring out where you lie when you're on the cusp. However, I agree with jjwilson61 that the fuller definitions can help you pretty well in defining who you are.

Well, vpfluke, thank goodness you're an E! You're our one little bit of diversity so far. I guess we'll have to direct all "extrovert" questions to you ;-).

Welcome jjwilson! Good to have you.

Hello, everyone, and thank you to citygirl for the invitation.

I'm an INT - well, that's the reliable bit, since depending on the random factors I test out INTP or INTJ with roughly equal frequency. I guess my J/P is pretty balanced. The scaled test tells me that I'm very, very NT and nearly as I, though.

Mewise, I've always been on the technical side; I've spent most of my life in the IT business in the UK, but 18 months ago I moved to Wichita, KS and got married, and now I and my lovely wife and fellow INTP are setting up a small business to do IT, transcription, proofreading, research, and crafts. (And, yes, we'll both be doing all of those things.)

I'm mostly self-educated in a variety of fields, initially mostly technical, but I dabble in science, linguistics, economics, law, history, and, well, pretty much anything else that catches my interest. I heard of the concept of a Renaissance Man early in life and thought it'd suit me just *fine*... and I just plain enjoy knowing things for the sake of knowing them.

As such, my reading's is a mixture of non-fiction (the non-fiction section of my library's still modest, but I'm working on it, and in the meantime there's always the public one), and for fun and general brain-stretching, I also read a lot of speculative fiction.

Philosophically, which is something else I've found interesting when correlated with type, I generally espouse pancritical rationalism, libertarianism, and dynamism (per The Future and Its Enemies).

And I think now I've probably rambled long enough...

Alistair

Nice rambling, Alistair of libraryofus. I can relate to that affinity with the Renaissance Man. When I was a wee citytot I thought maybe that'd be the route for me, but that damnable drive for achievement forced me to make a few decisions. Not to imply that one cannot be both renaissance and accomplished, as the original Renaissance Man, da Vinci, evinced. It's just that I'm kind of scatterbrained and if I don't focus I'll completely forget that I've even started something until six months later when I stumble along some unfinished project. ("Oh, right...I took up needlepoint last year. I was going to get really good at that. Oh, well. I can always pick it up later.")

Hi, I just took the test online and according to the results am an IsFp. (I made the "strongly"s upper case and the "slightly"s lower case.) There don't appear to be any other ISFPs in this group, and I wonder if that means anything. Is this type so rare?

Greetings. I will just shuffle over to the INFJ table and get a name tag. My favorite books are historical fiction, Sherlock Holmes, fantasy, science fiction, non-fiction, Russian authors, anything by Henry James, and children's books. That by no means limits me to those categories, however. Books have this terrible power to make you empty out your pocket book on the table for a complete stranger and then find yourself an hour later sitting in your car with a large bag of books that you only somewhat remember having anything to do with.

My day job is as an artist. I do graphic design, web design, and traditional hand arts. Somehow or another, I end up doing more than that wherever I work, though. I do both product development and informational organization as something of an unintentional compulsion, and most employers figure that out pretty quickly and make use of it.

This website is very dangerous. Do you have any idea how many hours I've spent on it today alone? And I've only just discovered it! Bad... very bad....

Sincerely,
seimeis

Greetings. I'm glad you found us. I find this site pretty addictive as well. Oh, I'd better go. My husband apparently wants to feed me. I'm no fool.

#22 StoreetllrThere don't appear to be any other ISFPs in this group, and I wonder if that means anything. Is this type so rare?

Well, one web source that I didn't write down says 8.8% of the population is ISFP. ISFJs are the most numerous with 13.8% and INFJs the rarest at 1.5%. This group, so far, is not representative. I think that has to do with the type of person likely to a) join LT, b) join groups, and c) be interested in MB typing. Also, there's the exposure factor: one has to find us. I hope you post more because, so far, we haven't gotten too many S perspectives on the threads. Just sm5por, ISTJ, until you.

Your type is described by Keirsey as the Composer, someone whose nature it to put together material that can be performed by the ISFP or by others and that is to be enjoyed and appreciated by others. Is that a good description?

--> 25 Hi, citygirl! Thanks for responding to my post.

Well, I write and am a serious amateur photographer, and love to share my work (esp. the photography), so I guess it kind of fits. BTW, I am right on the border between IsFp and IsFj and could go either way, depending on my answer to one question on the self-test that is neither one nor the other.

I think I will get Keirsey's book and read it; the whole concept sounds like it could be a key to my understanding of the often incomprehensible and sometimes outright bizarre behavior of people around me, not to mention myself, which tends to screw up relationships.

The types are often lumped into four groups called temperaments that have common qualities. If you are unsure of some of the letters you could look at the temperaments to verify your type. You say you are IsFp and you are less sure of the s and p so you could conceivably be a Traditionalist (SJ), Experiencer (SP), or Idealist (NF). The only type you couldn't be is Conceptualizer (NT).

The Traditionalists are the folk that make sure things get done. They are dependable and they value law and order.

The Experiencers are doers not planners. They thrive on action and excitement are playful and fun loving. They are often skilled performers who enjoy and excel at competition.

Idealists are on a perpetual search for meaning. They place a high value on on uniqueness and originality and it is very important for them to feel a connection to others. They are passionate and creative and can be charismatic communicators.

(Descriptions derived from The Art of Speedreading People by Paul D. Tieger).

If one of these temperaments fits you more than the others then you have nailed down your S/N and P/J.

--> 28 Cool, thanks, jj!

ETA: Both SJ and NF fit but NF resonates with me just a bit more, unless it's just wishful thinking because of the writing thing and the photography.

Abook I just refound today, Four Spiritualities: Expressions of self, expressions of spirit: a psychology of contemporary spiritual choice by Peter Tufts Richardson looks at four paths.

The Journey of Unity is taken by NT's, and is exemplified by the Buddha and Buckminster Fuller. (jnana yoga)

The Journey of Devotion is taken by SF's, and is exemplified by Ramakrishna, Mohammed, and Francis of Assisi. (bhakti yoga)

The Journey of Works is taken by by ST's and is exemplified by Moses and Confucius. (karma yoga)

The Journey of Harmony is taken by NF's and is exemplfied by Jesus and Rabindranath Tagore. (raja yoga)

There is some explication of the various "ways" in the Bhagavad Gita. I remember reading a rather good book about the first three modalities, with Paramahansa Yogananda as an example of jnana yoga, Ghandi as an example of karma yoga, and A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada being a representative of bhakti yoga.

Well, I'm an atheist and I think that fits the NT temperament perfectly.

Type and spirituality/religiosity is fascinating to me. So far I haven't been able to find too many correlations and I have not yet investigated The Four Spiritualities, which I'd like to.

Just from the four temperament descriptions you might think NTs would go for scientific explanations of the cosmos, NFs spiritual, SJs dogmatic and, well, I don't know what re SPs, maybe they don't worry about it that much. But everyone doesn't fit into those categories so neatly. Upbringing and environment plays a large role I think. I'm an NT and so are both of my parents, but we're all different religiously. My mother is dogmatic in the religion in which she was raised and in which she raised me. My father is devout in a different religion, but not too dogmatic and adjusts it as it makes sense to him. I have a strong belief in what may be called God, but that's a handy term. I knew from a young age that my mother's religion was not for me and I questioned and questioned and sought and studied....still do. Spirituality and how everything fits together is a very important question for me. I tend to think that God is too big for one religion and that many religions have found a piece of the answer that they cling to, but that there is a lot more. Because of my upbringing it was long process and big deal for me to be able to walk away from Christianity to realize that I truly didn't believe what I'd been taught to believe.

Thank you, vpfluke, for the yoga references. My yoga practice is like church for me (as I sometimes tell my more traditionally religious friends so they understand why it's more than exercise), a time of connection with God and my inner self as well as a time for renewal. It's really important for me as an INTJ especially because it really helps me get out of my own head with all the plans and schemes and constant drive to accomplish something and instead focus on the present moment and my body and helps me to accept my surroundings instead of trying to make improvements everywhere.

I'm not sure I agree with the concept of the four spiritualities and their relationship to the four types. My experience has been that people of different 'intelligences' and thinking-experiencing styles can, and often do, arrive at similar conclusions by completely different routes. That includes religious understanding and expression.

For instance, my brother is an NT (the classic iNTj in the extreme), but he and I share the same religious belief and came to our belief independently of one another. Neither of us came to our belief from a church or from someone approaching us. We both came to the table free of will out of our own desire and what we 'discovered' for ourselves, and if you were to ask us separately for all our reasonings and convictions, I imagine that in many ways they would be different (perhaps the NT explanation vs. the NF explanation) - yet we ultimately believe the same thing. We're both from a Jewish background and we both believe that Jesus is our Jewish Messiah.

In reply to jjwilson61, and tangentially, seimeis: I am an NT also (INTP), but I am Christian. I hope I am Christian in more than name - the most absolute statement I can make is that I am not a Christian because familial or traditional pressure - and several other NT friends are fellow Christians as well.

I think it's important to realize that atheism can be as dogmatic and badly thought-through as any religion, as Christianity at its historical worst. Equally, Christianity can be as clearheaded and reasonable as any atheist worldview. Faith is by definition irrational, so why are the so-called Rational types continuing to believe? Because human rationality is a limited tool, like most tools, and past a certain point, only God can answer your questions - assuming that the human mind is equipped to deal with the answers given - and past a certain point, the only certainty is God.

It's also important to remember that we humans don't know everything, no matter what faith or nonfaith we subscribe to. That includes you, me, and (insert expert/reference here).

I agree that personality types do NOT map neatly to specific religions or spiritual traditions. I've known enough fellow Buddhists to know that they aren't all NTs, that's for sure!

However, it may be true that certain styles of practice do attract particular type clusters. This was the case made by the authors of Knowing Me, Knowing You: Exploring Personality Type and Temperament - an excellent book on MBTI that was in large part devoted to the question of personality type and how it affects one's choice of spiritual expression.

The book focuses mainly on Christianity, and the Church of England in particular, but mutatis mutandis, its arguments work equally well when applied to other religious traditions.

True. But the style of practice, I think, is slightly harder to pin down than something as general as "religion". On the side of the respondent, a careful and honest analysis of how they carry out their faith is required. On the side of the questioner, the question must be phrased as clearly and probingly as possible. Even then, the respondent's self-bias is a major barrier to a full understanding of their style of practice. On the other hand, being lazy, we might be tempted to simply use our Myers-Briggs types to assign styles of practice to each other, which is a dangerous but enticing pitfall.

The text I mentioned (Knowing Me, Knowing You - unfortunate title, that - always makes me think of Steve Coogan as Alan Partridge) is a little more rigorous than you might think. It begins by discussing the distribution of indicated preferences for various groups, based on previous studies. These groups include curates, English (not British!) clergy, English laity, and members of theological colleges. The authors then make some cautious (but, I think, very sound) extrapolations based on their findings.

For example: "What we appear to have (...) are churches primarily made up of Introverts (operating in an Extravert culture), with a tendency towards iNtuition (within a climate which is largely made up of Sensers) with a high proportion of Feelers (with Thinkers under-represented), and with perhaps a slight bias towards a preference for Judging. This is a brief type profile. A temperament profile shows that there is a very strong bias towards NFs and also that the churches have little contact with the SPs, and also that NTs are under-represented."

The book then goes on to talk about preferred styles of worship, contemplation, communal ritual, preaching, outreach, etc., among English Christians (who are, in the main, members - at least nominally - of the Church of England). Even so, the authors make some observations about personality type and, in particular, which types of activity attract which individuals, that I think do hold generally true. But to be more specific than this, I would have to give examples, and I'm not sure this is of much interest to anyone else here but me :-)

I'm interested. :-)

Hi, I'm ArmyAngel, and I'm an introvert, though I don't know my exact type. I've always been very reserved and prefer more of a discussion to chit-chat (idle talking exhausts me), and more often than not you'll find me on the sidelines of a conversation observing people rather than joining in. I'm looking forward to learning more about the other personality types from this group!

Hi, ArmyAngel, glad to see you here. There are scads of MB and MB-based tests on the web. I don't know which ones to recommend. Maybe someone else does. It's fascinating. Love to hear what you come out as.

Thanks to sm5por for the link! According to a test I took, I'm an ISTJ Inspector Guardian. Having read all the little description that went with it, I have to say it's pretty accurate. I was also tickled pink to see I have this in common with characters Eeyore and Puddleglum!

This group now has 52 members, which is pretty good. Am I, as an ENTP, still the only (somewhat) extraverted person in the group?

I think with spirituality types and MBTI, there are only rough correspendences. We have our own history, family history, friends, geography that influence our experiences.

Hi everyone,

Thanks to post #14 inkdrinker for the online test. My type turned out to be INFP...(hello CalicoGal!) more than a decade ago when I took it I was an ENTP...but that was in a work setting and things have changed since then.

The E turned into an I (it was borderline before anyway...no surprise there) and the T turned into an F (although it is still borderline...)

I wonder how much of that is influenced by change in vocation, and/or aging? I am surely working more creatively now than before where feelings can be more an asset vs a liability. Sometimes in the work environment, being an "F" might be tough. I'm really speculating here.

This is an interesting group - I was always fascinated with the MB profiles when we used them in teambuilding back in the mid 90's.

Sorry vpfluke - thought I might be able to keep you company as an E - but apparently I've gone over to the I side.

:)

I think that for some of us on the cusp, we have to realize that changing ones answer to a single question can change the letter of our MBTI. So, you have statistical variation which happens all the time. I am very lightly an E, but strongly a P.

However, one can change over time as you go through phases in your life. I am probably more introverted living in Long Island than I was living in the midwest. There is an public extraverted quality to life in the New York area, which I'm not sure I want to participate in. On the other hand, when I lived in Detroit & Indianapolis, I felt I had to get things going, so did more outward expression. But usually people say the true test is whether you look within to make decisions or go outside, and I still go outside, needing to affirm a majority of things I do with someone else. But in my own field (Manager of Bus Scheduling), I lean more to my own counsel.

I find the tests to be a good first step but to really nail down your type you need to read the descriptions of the functions and make sure you agree that the test put you in the right place. Reading your type description and comparing it to nearby ones, especially when the you didn't lean strongly one way or the other is also very helpful.

A lot of times we answer the test in ways that we would like to be or the way that we are at work, while our true preference is somewhat buried. Your type isn't supposed to be able to change, but as we get older we're able to use our other functions better so it can seem that way. It's like if you are right-handed you will always be right-handed, although you may be able to learn to use your left hand better.

#43 - Hi, villandry. Welcome to our little group. I hope you have fun here.

Re T v F, what I have learned is that this letter signifies the basis upon which you make decisions. A Feeler decides more on a case-by-case basis, depending on what impact the decision will have on others' feelings and relationships. This person uses principles and logic (we all do), but the final arbiter is how people are affected, often individually. A Thinker, while often cognizant of the impact decisions will have on people's circumstances and emotions, will make a decision based on a guiding principle, considering what the logical consequences of a decision will be and is much more likely to dismiss the impact on an individual and his feelings: "He'll get over it, it's for the best." So, are you relationship-driven or principle-driven?

As an example, I am an extreme T: I'm not touchy-feely or warm and fuzzy (except with my husband, and, I imagine, my future children). If someone doesn't take my advice after asking for it, I won't give it the third time. I won't continue to listen to someone whine about her problems if she never does anything to change them. I don't lie to spare people's feelings and if I don't like someone, I won't pretend to. (I won't be rude, but I'm not going give fake smiles, etc.) If someone doesn't like me, I don't care: there are nearly 7 billion people on the planet. If asked (and sometimes when not) I give my honest opinion or divert the conversation. It is very hard for me to abandon a logical course of action for the sole reason of protecting someone's feelings. Obviously I have to compensate, so I do, in my way.

Maybe a strong F can speak to the other side. :-)

I was posting on the other threads first cos I forgot to introduce myself. I'm an ENTP (60% or higher on E,T,and P) and agree with everything Citygirl has said about T's.

I'm not a touchy feely person at all and hate emotional birthday cards, (that and I have visions of English majors chained to computers with a shirtless burly man banging out iambic pentameter on his kettle drum forcing them to write bad poetry).

I took my first MBTI test when I was in high school and almost ten years later am still the same score. I really got interested when I worked in a Career Services office at a college. In an office of women we were split down the middle T and F's. Very often when rules were bent for students someone would commit on the nature of Feelers.

-the mistress

I'm a strong T, but my understanding is that F's in addition to what you wrote above about how they make decisions based on how others are affected, they also use how they feel about the issue. So an F is more likely to be guided by values or principles.

It's the Spock vs. Bones dichotomy.

Hi, I'm a enTj
I am a retired CPA and now devoting my (early) retirement to creative pursuits. I've just finished a mainstream novel and am decorating our home with mosaics and faux painting. I've always considered myself equally "left & right brained". But the Thinking thing dominates everything.

Thanks for the welcome citygirl.

jjwilson - great advise, I read the INTP and am decidedly not like that. INFP seems very accurrate - the description also has a name "Healer" - interesting. I don't recall this kind of thing before. Are there INFP's with different descriptive names given their emphasis in various letters?

(I shall see if I can find Goldsmith's book.)

It was fascinating to read your conversations on the T vs F as it relates to decision making... my preference on F is only 22 ... because the other letters are in the upper 60's (except P) I'm guessing that is a low preference.

My decision making preference changes based on what type of subject is being debated. However, I will say that I try to balance between logic and how my choice may impact others - sounds like relationships. (bear with me as I speculate here and think as I write...)

I usually take a looooong time to decide things, but am mostly happy with my choices on a long term basis.

It is true that I favor "F" in that my emphasis is generally on how my choices impact the others involved. This could be why I am successful as an independant business consultant as I can get inside my client's hearts and minds very easily. I look at what is right for them in a wholistic sense.

My personal life choices must pass the full spectrum of analysis from how I feel and what will happen to those others in my life, and whether it makes logical sense. I guess the "order" of analysis is critical. I would be extremely reluctant to choose a course of action that doesn't feel good to me unless a very convincing set of logical arguments could be made...it would be tough.

And, like you citygirl, I do not believe in sparing people's feelings if they need to face facts and harsh truths. I tell it like I see it, the only differece is that I might feel bad if they are mad at me later. This wouldn't necessary apply to complete strangers, however, just people I care about.

It occurs to me that people ask me for advice a lot...but I hardly ever give any. Usually, I just ask them a lot of questions and eventually they realize what they should do. If I think they are making a mistake, I will point out the consequences or potential risks.

If I do give advice, it's often in the form of suggestions, I'll lay out options vs saying do this or that (I think that might be a P thing?). I've no attachment to whether they do it or not. Perhaps that comes with having a 23 year old child! LOL.

It sounds like you are nearly equally adept at both styles of decision making, although you say you favor F, so it makes sense that you'd come out on the test with a weak preference.

By the way, taking a long time to make decisions is a P trait. P's like to keep their options open as long as possible and feel that making a decision means not being able to follow the other paths.

Hi, Cowbird. It's nice to meet you. (Hey, vpfluke, there's another E!) I am also someone with the balanced right & left brain, although, due to my profession I fear it's leaning a little left. I want balance! So, I'm trying to inspire my right brain.

villandry, I think that not giving advice and not caring if they take it is another influence of the P. I always know exactly what people should do ;-) My mother, the J -- I think she used to get sort of offended if I didn't take her advice exactly as advised, so that lack of attachment, I gotta tell ya, it's not from having an adult kid.

BTW, I don't like it when my friends are mad at me either, but that almost never happens, and I rarely get mad at them. Not sure why.

Hello! I'm an INTP with some "J" tendencies...I've been reading some of the threads like "you must die" and LOL! this looks like a light-hearted fun group here. I'm kinda bouncing between books: The Hero With a Thousand Faces, Labyrinths, and The Women's Room.

Hi educan06 - I agree, this is fun and interesting.

Thanks #51, P & J another interesting discussion ...maybe we should start a new thread because it might be fun to get some opinions about how this aspect manifests. I'm a P, no doubt, but I'm very organized and neat. Maybe that's the OCD factor...or just that fact that we all have characteristics of both P & J...just different emphasis.

#52 - :-) your mother sounds like my husband! he must be a J. It drives him crazy that I always have to "gather" opinions and information before deciding what I think or want to do. I've pointed out that he does the same thing, but he is very internal about it. My process is highly visible and participative. I want to know what people think about everything. It isn't because I'm wishy washy, its just that I'm absolutely positive I don't have all the answers and I love that element of surprise when some one has a completely different take on something.

sorry- I'm blabbing. I'm going to go find a copy of the book now...

cduncan - Hey, same! Allow me to proffer a digital handshake.

Greetings and salutations, cduncan, this looks like a light-hearted fun group here.

Thanks. That's our first compliment. *sniffle, sniffle* Dang, these Fs are rubbing off on me!;-)

How are you liking The Women's Room? I think that was a watershed book for me.

Yes, villandry, start a thread! I have a complex! And I'm trying to keep my neuroses under two digits.

Oh, and organization is a struggle for me, despite my J-ness. Well, I should say-- you know what? I'm going to save it for that P & J thread.

ISTJ here and a teacher. Love to read: history particularly the Reformation and English Tutors; mysteries; children's books; theology; fantasy; poetry and the classics.

Hello, janimar. Welcome, and thank you for adding to our S count. I hope you have fun here. And feel free to start threads, if you like. :-)

INTJ according to my last test. I'm not sure of the accuracy of these tests.

But that's exactly…what an INTJ would say.

Well, how many times have you taken the test? How many different tests? How experimentally accurate are the results?

Welcome aboard, deniro! Read different descriptions of INTJ and you'll see if it makes sense. I find that the four different temperaments, NT-Rational NF-Idealist SJ-Guardian and SP-Artisan, are all quite different, so if you're a Rational it's doubtful you'll mistake yourself for one of the others.

59 >

Welcome, deniro!

Oddly enough, deniro, forum seem to be disproportionately high in INTJs, despite the fact that it's one of the rarer types in the general population. Maybe we're actually attracted to personality typing?

Keep in mind that this is a group created under a website called LIBRARYTHING.

:P

That help any?

chainedwind: You make a good point. All of the INTJ's that I know are serious book hoarders and like to catalog them, whether by hand or by computer, so there might already be a bias towards that type here on LibraryThing. *grin*

I think we're attracted to personality typing because it gives us another tool with which to analyze people, who are very fascinating creatures, and necessary to plots and schemes ;-) At least, that's my attraction.

And INTPs would be interested just for the sake of the analysis itself :) I challenge you to find a more complex system than the human psyche.

It's probably past time that I introduced myself. I test as ISTP, but the S is the weakest of the four. I, T,and P are all at least 70% in their ranges, but the S is usually only about 10% past the N crossover. This has given me a bit to think about. Looking at some of the test-yourself tests seems to suggest that I may be an analyical person, but not comfortable with imaginative theory or speculation. I'm a practical person.

I don't fit the SP Artisan type, at least in the standard form of a person who makes things or puts things together. I'm a problem-solver, but the problems tend to be organizational or practical.

I've been given one of the longer tests used in human resources, and test as ISTP. This seemed to confound the person administering the test - I'm female and work in a library, which did not seem to fit whatever the scoring notes suggested for an ISTP.

This is all fascinating, and I need to look for more sophisticated analysis of types. I clearly don't really fit what I have seen so far. I do wonder if the people constructing these things are not mostly strong NTs whose understanding of the range of S people is a bit shallow.

Arethusarose

Well, keep in mind that these are mostly tendencies. It's by no means a perfect system. So aside from mechanical stuff, the ISTP traits that my research has yielded are as follows:

-Need for personal space
-Usually calm, unless enthused by a project
-"Free spirits"
-Skeptical
-Practical
-Observant
-Logical
-Prefers flexibility
-Independent
-Loyal to a cause
-Sense of justice/honor
-Adventurous

Do a lot of them fit you, or is it completely off the mark? And if it's off the mark, is it irrelevent or is it the total opposite of who you really are?

Have you read Please Understand Me II, arethusarose? Keirsey demonstrates a complex understanding of all the types. And yes, he is a Rational, but I think Myers was an Idealist. And I hope you really are an ISTP. I think you'd be the first here. One site identified Clint Eastwood and maybe Paul Newman, as ISTPs. Still waters run deep. Tom Cruise, too, however you want to take that....

One thing I've wondered about too is secondary types. I don't know if the research has gone this far, but if there were such a thing as a "sub-temperament" or "sub-type" I wonder if I'd come out as Artisan secondarily. Something to fill in the picture a little more.

There are now 63 members, over double of the first posting.

Here are the most common books that this group owns:

Personality type : an owner's manual by Lenore Thomson (7),
Please understand me II : temperament, character, intelligence… by David Keirsey (11),
100 one-night reads : a book lover's guide by David C. Major (5),
The Germanic people: their origin, expansion, and culture by Francis Owen (4),
Gifts differing : understanding personality type by Isabel Briggs Myers (7),
Shaman, the wounded healer by Joan Halifax (4),
Type talk, or, How to determine your personality type and ch… by Otto Kroeger (7),
The road less traveled : a new psychology of love, traditional… by M. Scott Peck (13)

The Germanic People - I wouldn't have expected that one!

It's amazing that 'Germanic People' is so high. The order of book listed by LT is weighted to give lesser owned books a higher standing. Only 18 people own this one. 1142 LTers own "The road less traveled", 36 own "Personality type", and 289 own "Please understand me II". So, there is a wide divergence.

#69 "One thing I've wondered about too is secondary types."

The book Personality Type:an owners manual by Lenore Thomson has very good descriptions of primary, secondary, and tertiary personality types.

Hi, another new one here. I'm ENTJ, with the "I" only 58%... the rest has a higher percentage... I currently "advise" the marketing for a chinese incoming online tour operator

Welcome, J ipsen! I'm confused: INTJ or ENTJ?

ah sorry, I forgot half of my brain at home today: I'm ENTJ with the "N" 58%.... I just looked at Intuition and took the "I" not the "N"

Either way, glad to have you. I think you might be our first ENTJ.

Well, I'm the ENTP in the group, maybe one more. My E is close to the I(ntrovert), my N is fairly pronounced, but I do have an alternate S mentality that clocks in on pertinent occasions for my job in bus scheduling. And, I am an extreme P.

I'm an "E or I" NTP. I've come out both ways in tests, and I think I flick pretty easily between E and I depending on circumstances. Both type descriptions seem to "fit", as far as I can tell. I've always come out "extreme" for N, and moderate for T and P.

felius:

I'm glad I put in an escape clause in my posting. Now for a second escape clause: "maybe two more".

I was more E when I lived in the midwest (Detroit & Indianapolis); now that I live in the New York area (Long Island), whose culture is more extrovert, I show more of my I. Maybe culture has some effect on how one shows ones type.

Well as the virtues of INFJs are being extolled on the front page, I'd better introduce myself as exactly that. I love reading - my favourite thing to do (along with sleeping!).
I struggle with the conflict between extreme introversion and my feeling preference - it can make me very unhappy. I also work with people who wouldn't know a book if it fell on their heads. So this site makes me feel that at least I am not completely weird in thinking that food and shopping are not the SOLE topics of conversation.

So Hi to my fellow book lovers.

Welcome, fellow INFJ. I wonder if sleeping is a type trait? Because I love to sleep as well. Sleep. Read. Music. Art. Sleep. Sleeping is the time for my mind to sort things out and explain things to me that I might not consciously understand. :)

I feel for you with the non-reading coworkers. The people I work for are lovely, but they don't read much either. No desire. Nor do they have any interest in what's happening in the world outside of pop culture. It leaves a huge are of topics that you just can't talk about with them.

I get a lot worked out when I'm asleep, too. But sometimes I have trouble sleeping. It seems like my mind is too active. I think a lot when I'm in bed supposed to be asleep.

Seimeis,
I think I sleep a lot because my brain is always on the go, so the only rest I get is when I sleep or when I can escape into a book! (usually fantasy)
I had a quick look at your library and we don't share much yet (I still have many items to add) but I see a Sherlock Holmes fan - I loved those books from when I was 12. Have you seen the 80s TV version with Jeremy Brett? He still is the best Sherlock Holmes for me. I would have loved to have met him but sadly he died several years ago.

I guess the only advantage of working with uncurious co-workers is that you tend to be regarded as the fount of all-knowledge simply because you do know so much more than them. Not that I'm necessarily more intelligent than them but I generally hate not knowing and will more often than not look it up. I don't care what Kate Moss snorted last week but the usual climate where someone is going on holiday I want to know.

I can relate to everything infjsarah and seimeis have said; give me music, art, history, politics, literature and sleep. As a male INFJ I have often been treated by my colleagues as some kind of freak or misfit, which studying medicine did nothing to alleviate (and as for the emotional stress involved in actually caring about doing a good job, don't get me started). I really used to hate myself for being so introverted but I've learned to accept that it's just the way I am. I feel so lucky to have married a female INFJ (at last a woman who really understands me) but there was a fair amount of heartbreak along the way. (And yes, Jeremy Brett was the definitive Sherlock Holmes.)

Hi there!

Long ago I took a career-finding class at a community college and they gave us the Myers-Briggs Test.

I'm an INTP, and if I recall correctly, was fairly close with my T & F, and somewhat less with my I & E scores.

I've always known I was more introvert than extrovert. I love reading (of course), mostly genre fiction (fantasy, SF, mystery, romance, historical fiction). I've got degrees in English Lit., History and Fine Art. Occasionally I'll do some odd extroverted things like theater or radio DJ-ing. I'm currently a free-lance illustrator.

I think the classification was generally the right one, anyway, although I definitely have some things in common with some other combinations...

Personality types were fun to explore more when I was doing some writing (non-professional). It was an interesting way to get a handle on characterization and to make sure they weren't all thinking/behaving the same, etc.

Welcome, aprillee. You and your fellows are featured on the group page. You sound like a bit of a renaissance woman.

I'm a singer-songwriter and, despite being painfully shy, when I was a student I fronted my own band. I've always loved being on stage; I love the applause and the satisfaction of a job well done. But the stagefright, oh the stagefright...

Yes introverts confronted with stagefright...... I had gotten a job when I got out of school in which I was going to be doing a lot of presentations. Being painfully shy, I was panicked. My father suggested that I sign up at a church and do the readings, because it was free, and a large captive audience. Initially I was almost frozen. I never got good, although I did get much better.

My daughter, who is definitely an extrovert and probably the exact opposite of my INFP, is an actress. I, who am definitely an introvert, would rather have my fingernails pulled out with pliers than get on stage in front of strangers (or friends & family, for that matter). Once, after a performance, I remarked how nice it must be not to have stagefright. She gave me this look and said, "What makes you think I don't get stagefright?" She then went on to tell me that it's so bad sometimes she is afraid she's going to throw up and/or faint, but she forces herself onstage and, the minute the curtain goes up, she's over it. I stand in awe of anyone with that much courage.

Whisky and cigarettes were always good for stagefright but, alas, not so good for the technical quality of the performance...

Courage comes in many forms and that certainly sounds like one of them. The point is, of course, that introverts don't have a monopoly on such fears. I wonder whether extroverts are more likely to confront them, like your daughter, rather than avoiding them as you say you do?

When in my early 20's, I embarked on human rights work and soon found myself speaking to audiences for the first time in my life. I was, and am, an introvert (on the far end of the scale), and suffered terribly from stage fright. However, I worked through it by reminding myself that the issue I was talking about was FAR more important than my nervousness. Taking the focus off myself, and putting it onto the message (and the audience), helped tremendously.

Now it's not the case I ever became really comfortable at speaking in front of crowds (even presentations to coworkers at the office are concluded with a silent sigh of relief!), but certainly I learned to become reasonably good at it. And I daresay that the trembling wasn't obvious beyond the first row or two :-)

Brave.

And healthier than whisky and cigarettes.

(Don't need 'em now anyway).

I think extroverts want affirmation from the public, and can truly frightened that they won't get it. Extroverts want to process things through other people, and audiences are composed mostly of people about whom you know almost nothing.

Hi, I'm Lynnmc and I love discussion about type. I am an ENFP but borderline on everything - very balanced I guess. I chalk this up to internal confusion due to my NF "nature" versus the "nurturing" I received from SJ's. I also find that as I get older (female 54) I am becoming more introverted. So I guess I'm only "somewhat" extraverted myself. An acquaintance who is certified in MBTI asked me: "Are you sure you're not a "T"? Then she asked me if either of my parents were alcoholic. Yes, my father and grandfather was. She said "oh that explains a lot". Unfortunately this conversation did not get finished. I do know that as a child, along with my siblings, we walked on egg shells and were not encouraged to express ourselves. It was his way only. I'm a bit of a rebel and a bit crafty so I was always looking for ways to outsmart him and do what I wanted. I just had to be two steps ahead. So I believe I can move between SJ and NF style because of this. My taste in books are all over. I enjoy Fiction (fantasy, mystery, sci fi and others not so easily defined). I also like Non Fiction and in particular I'm fascinated with WWII era and the story of the Jews and the Nazi's for that matter. I think it's the psychology of it all which is another thing I'm obviously interested in considering what we are discussing here. I also enjoy the history of various kings and queens, in particular England, but others as well. I love words, I love auto/biographies. I guess it comes down to the fact that I find people and the reasons they do things as very fascinating.

Hi! I'm K. I did a couple of tests and I am most certainly an ISFJ. I've always been fascinated by personality type, and have always been puzzled by my seeming mix of both I and E traits. And also of my logical nature, which is sprinkled with a liberal amount of feeling and intuition-based decision making.

Ah, the joys of being a contradiction! :)

I'm a classic INFP. Last Sunday, I finished a two-week vacation that involved 16-hour days of "face time", and I haven't recovered yet. It's all I can do to answer to phone. Thank God for caller-ID. Having four younger children dramatically slows my recovery time.

It seems there are a ton of "I"s on LT and very few "E"s, at least not participating in this group. Thoughts?

I think librarians and book people in general tend to be more I than E. E's want to see the other person, to get their context, observe body language. LT provides a little bit of shield for people - an introvert can reveal or not reveal at their own pace.

And as an INTJ I feel more comfortable giving my views in this type of forum than face to face in a room full of people.

Hello, my name is Richard. A relatively large group you have managed to make, citygirl. I found the word enneagram in this group several times, so I would like to say here that recently a new group was started: "Enneagram personality types". Maybe you all could take a look. For better understanding of people and their differences, I use both MBTI (I'm ISTJ) and the enneagram. My scores for S and T are very high, not just a small balance towards S and T.

I've joined the Enneagram group. Here is the link to the group, for those who might be interested:
http://www.librarything.com/groups/enneagrampersonality

I have shown up as an ENTP on Myers-Briggs, but my Enneagram Type 5 (Observer) helps explain my quirky extraversion better, which is very mild (in the MBTI scoring). Typically Enneagram 5's are withdrawal types, but one can have social instinctual subtype. This seems to fit pretty well for me.

Hello, My name is Margaret and I'm a 52 year old INFJ...but borderline INTJ...and more than likely Aspergers - which might explain the F/T see-sawing?
I'm a librarian, I love cataloguing but I work with children. And I've been known as a weirdo since I was a child.
My enneagram type is 4 with a very strong 5 wing.

# 103

Welcome to the group. We've become almost somnolent.

Hello everyone,

I am decidely introverted, and somewhat more intuitive and judging than sensing and perceiving. I am split in the middle between feeling and thinking. As I have aged, my feeling side has become more dominant. In short, I consider myself a mixed type. I have tested as an INFJ and as an INTJ. I am fascinated by MBTI and hope I can learn more about it from this group.

My favorite authors are Jane Austen, Agatha Christie, Arthur Conan Doyle, and Anton Chekhov. I like mysteries, and fiction that focuses on character development, and biographies and memoirs.

Hello. I'm an INFJ and I really empathise with those of you who suffer dreadfully from stage fright. It's fine for me (more or less) when singing in a big choir, but in my small ensemble it's appalling. Solo? Forget it! I'm still trying to overcome this particular anxiety.

Apart from the performance horrors I'm quite a confident person socially. Loathe small-talk though and the only parties I really enjoy are gatherings of musicians where people are either making music or talking about it.

Feel awkward talking about myself. I'll scuttle off now and resist the temptation to delete this post.

Three new INFJs in May. Will we make this group (or the INFJ group) active? I've longed to find other INFJs to talk with. I've read so very many books on type. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven finding this LT site, where I might find other M/B interested folks. Hello, all!

I have to admit that I don't run into many INFJs in the course of my work. I'd love to know the different books you have read about type. Maybe we could discuss one of the books.

Watson1 and Thrin - welcome to the group - we've been very quiet lately - praps all us INFJs are too busy reading!
Thrin - I know what you mean about deleting posts - I have problems with self revelation too - a function of introversion. Have you read Marti Laney's books? she explains this reaction well.
I too hate small talk - all most people seem to talk about is clothes, food and holidays - to me the only bearable one is the holidays.

I am an INFJ.

MGP