Art Back Again In 2017
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1artturnerjr
Years in parentheses indicate the first year I added the book to my Challenge lists. All books on the Alternates Lists are being added to my Challenge lists for the first time in 2017.
MAIN LIST
1) The Food of the Gods - H.G. Wells (2012)
2) A Game of Thrones - George R.R. Martin (2012)
3) The Oxford Book of English Ghost Stories - Michael Cox and R.A. Gilbert (eds.) (2013)
4) From a Buick 8 - Stephen King (2013)
5) Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies - Jared Diamond (2013)
6) The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany - William L. Shirer (2014)
7) Daredevil: Predator's Smile - Christopher Golden (2014)
8) Glory Road - Robert A. Heinlein (2015)
9) Lucifer's Hammer - Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle (2015)
10) A Feast Unknown - Philip José Farmer (2016)
11)Down and Out in Paris and London - George Orwell (2016) (finished 2/6/17)
12) The Amazing Spider-Man Omnibus, Volume 1 - Steve Ditko and Stan Lee (2016)
ALTERNATES LIST
1) Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas - Hunter S. Thompson
2) The World Without Us - Alan Weisman
3) Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief - Lawrence Wright
4) The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao - Junot Díaz
5) No Country for Old Men - Cormac McCarthy
6) The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia - Ursula K. Le Guin
7)Doctor Sleep - Stephen King (finished 1/9/17)
8) À rebours (translated Against Nature or Against the Grain) - Joris-Karl Huysmans
9) Last and First Men: A Story of the Near and Far Future - Olaf Stapledon
10) Songs of a Dead Dreamer and Grimscribe - Thomas Ligotti
11) My Work is Not Yet Done: Three Tales of Corporate Horror - Ligotti
12)Promethea Book 1 - Alan Moore and J.H. Williams III (finished 2/16/17)
MAIN LIST
1) The Food of the Gods - H.G. Wells (2012)
2) A Game of Thrones - George R.R. Martin (2012)
3) The Oxford Book of English Ghost Stories - Michael Cox and R.A. Gilbert (eds.) (2013)
4) From a Buick 8 - Stephen King (2013)
5) Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies - Jared Diamond (2013)
6) The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany - William L. Shirer (2014)
7) Daredevil: Predator's Smile - Christopher Golden (2014)
8) Glory Road - Robert A. Heinlein (2015)
9) Lucifer's Hammer - Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle (2015)
10) A Feast Unknown - Philip José Farmer (2016)
11)
12) The Amazing Spider-Man Omnibus, Volume 1 - Steve Ditko and Stan Lee (2016)
ALTERNATES LIST
1) Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas - Hunter S. Thompson
2) The World Without Us - Alan Weisman
3) Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief - Lawrence Wright
4) The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao - Junot Díaz
5) No Country for Old Men - Cormac McCarthy
6) The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia - Ursula K. Le Guin
7)
8) À rebours (translated Against Nature or Against the Grain) - Joris-Karl Huysmans
9) Last and First Men: A Story of the Near and Far Future - Olaf Stapledon
10) Songs of a Dead Dreamer and Grimscribe - Thomas Ligotti
11) My Work is Not Yet Done: Three Tales of Corporate Horror - Ligotti
12)
2.Monkey.
Still love From a Buick 8 (I'm sure I've mentioned that previously xP), and yay Le Guin! She's the best. I also usually enjoy Heinlein quite a bit. :) I haven't read any of Orwell's nonfic, you'll have to get on that one and report back! :P
3Cecrow
There's a remarkable lack of Lovecraft in this list! And it's Game of Thrones again, every year I hold my breath you're gonna read that one, lol. I'm interested in the Le Guin and the Stapledon.
4artturnerjr
>2 .Monkey.:
My odds of getting to From a Buick 8, the Heinlein and the Orwell have improved slightly this year (see below). And it was really important to me to get at least one Le Guin title on my lists this year; she's one of those authors that seems to have at least one book on every single one of those "best SF and fantasy novels" lists (along with Frederik Pohl, Richard Adams, William Gibson, and a few others) that I've never read an entire book by. I'm also trying to read more books by female authors. She's the only one I managed to get on the lists this year - hopefully I'll do better in 2018.
>3 Cecrow:
There's a remarkable lack of Lovecraft in this list!
Largely because there isn't a lot of his stuff I have left to read. Aside from the poetry (which, based on what I have read, frankly isn't very good) and the correspondence, the only stuff of his I haven't read is some the stories he revised for other authors, which generally aren't great shakes either. I did manage to get some authors that are influenced by him (Stephen King, Thomas Ligotti, and Alan Moore) on the lists, as well as a couple of writers that influenced him (Huysmans and Stapledon).
And it's Game of Thrones again, every year I hold my breath you're gonna read that one, lol.
Like the books I mentioned when I was was responding to >2 .Monkey.:, the chances are looking a little better for that one this year (again, see below).
***
I'm going to try something a little different this year. I was getting a little depressed seeing many of the same titles come up on my lists year after year, so I decided to do something to about it. I have a new rule for this year - in order to read one of the books off my alternates list (i.e., the new ones), I have to read a book off my main list (i.e., the old ones) first. So if, for example, I want to read My Work is Not Yet Done, I have to earn the right to read it by reading The Food of the Gods or A Game of Thrones or one of the other titles on the m.l. first. Hopefully this will motivate me to get to at least some of the "old" titles this year. (The one exception I will allow myself is Doctor Sleep. It's the sequel to The Shining, which I'm about two-thirds of the way through my reread of now. If I finish that one and start Doctor Sleep before New Year's, then I will allow myself to finish it before reading any of the books on my main list. That's gonna be the only exception, though. (I trust you all will be monitoring me to make sure I am sticking to this. ;) ))
My odds of getting to From a Buick 8, the Heinlein and the Orwell have improved slightly this year (see below). And it was really important to me to get at least one Le Guin title on my lists this year; she's one of those authors that seems to have at least one book on every single one of those "best SF and fantasy novels" lists (along with Frederik Pohl, Richard Adams, William Gibson, and a few others) that I've never read an entire book by. I'm also trying to read more books by female authors. She's the only one I managed to get on the lists this year - hopefully I'll do better in 2018.
>3 Cecrow:
There's a remarkable lack of Lovecraft in this list!
Largely because there isn't a lot of his stuff I have left to read. Aside from the poetry (which, based on what I have read, frankly isn't very good) and the correspondence, the only stuff of his I haven't read is some the stories he revised for other authors, which generally aren't great shakes either. I did manage to get some authors that are influenced by him (Stephen King, Thomas Ligotti, and Alan Moore) on the lists, as well as a couple of writers that influenced him (Huysmans and Stapledon).
And it's Game of Thrones again, every year I hold my breath you're gonna read that one, lol.
Like the books I mentioned when I was was responding to >2 .Monkey.:, the chances are looking a little better for that one this year (again, see below).
***
I'm going to try something a little different this year. I was getting a little depressed seeing many of the same titles come up on my lists year after year, so I decided to do something to about it. I have a new rule for this year - in order to read one of the books off my alternates list (i.e., the new ones), I have to read a book off my main list (i.e., the old ones) first. So if, for example, I want to read My Work is Not Yet Done, I have to earn the right to read it by reading The Food of the Gods or A Game of Thrones or one of the other titles on the m.l. first. Hopefully this will motivate me to get to at least some of the "old" titles this year. (The one exception I will allow myself is Doctor Sleep. It's the sequel to The Shining, which I'm about two-thirds of the way through my reread of now. If I finish that one and start Doctor Sleep before New Year's, then I will allow myself to finish it before reading any of the books on my main list. That's gonna be the only exception, though. (I trust you all will be monitoring me to make sure I am sticking to this. ;) ))
5Cecrow
Show no mercy to those Old Ones! (you see what I did there?) At least you have some variety among your primaries for size, genre, etc. to choose which Gate you enter by (hey, I did it again!)
6artturnerjr
>5 Cecrow:
Lol! Yeah, the likelihood of looking at my main list and saying, "Man! I really don't wanna read any of these!" is pretty small, I think.
Lol! Yeah, the likelihood of looking at my main list and saying, "Man! I really don't wanna read any of these!" is pretty small, I think.
7Narilka
Great list. Several on there I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on. Good luck sticking to your plan. I'm not sure I could do something like that lol
8artturnerjr
>7 Narilka:
Thanks! Yeah, we'll see how it goes for me. I might regret it when I get into the more challenging ones on the main list. :)
Thanks! Yeah, we'll see how it goes for me. I might regret it when I get into the more challenging ones on the main list. :)
9Cecrow
For being such a simple and straightforward challenge, there's a lot of variety in the ways we're finding to approach it.
11billiejean
Nice lists! I'm excited to see Doctor Sleep, which I just purchased on my kindle. Do kindle books count? I might read that one, too, if they do. Also, love that Cormac McCarthy, and No Country for Old Men might be my favorite of his. I don't have another to read this year. Maybe I should buy one real fast. (Actually, I have The Road, but I can't place where it is in the house.) I can't nail down my list for 2017 for some reason. I am swayed by everyone else's list.
12LittleTaiko
Interesting list. I've read a couple of those, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao. Interested to see what you think if you get to them.
13artturnerjr
>11 billiejean:
Do kindle books count?
They better, because six of the books on my lists (the Farmer, the Orwell, Going Clear, No Country for Old Men, Doctor Sleep, and the Stapledon) are Kindle books. (I'm pretty sure they do - pretty sure I've never seen anything in the rules that says they have to be print books.)
Also, love that Cormac McCarthy, and No Country for Old Men might be my favorite of his.
Good to know. I had a couple of reasons for choosing that one: (1) I love The Road, and have been meaning to read more of McCarthy ever since I read that one; (2) I've had the film version on DVD for a couple of years now and haven't watched it because of my "can't watch the movie until I've read the book" rule, so after I read the book I can finally watch the movie! 8)
>12 LittleTaiko:
Hunter Thompson is somebody I've been meaning to read since I was in my twenties (if not my teens), so it'll be great to finally get around to him. Also, Fear and Loathing is another one where I've had the DVD of the film version for awhile, so as with No Country, that's another motivating factor.
I've been hearing good things about Oscar Wao from friends for a while now, so I'm really glad to get that one on my lists. Also, I figure any book that takes one of its epigraphs from a Fantastic Four comic can't be all bad! :D
Do kindle books count?
They better, because six of the books on my lists (the Farmer, the Orwell, Going Clear, No Country for Old Men, Doctor Sleep, and the Stapledon) are Kindle books. (I'm pretty sure they do - pretty sure I've never seen anything in the rules that says they have to be print books.)
Also, love that Cormac McCarthy, and No Country for Old Men might be my favorite of his.
Good to know. I had a couple of reasons for choosing that one: (1) I love The Road, and have been meaning to read more of McCarthy ever since I read that one; (2) I've had the film version on DVD for a couple of years now and haven't watched it because of my "can't watch the movie until I've read the book" rule, so after I read the book I can finally watch the movie! 8)
>12 LittleTaiko:
Hunter Thompson is somebody I've been meaning to read since I was in my twenties (if not my teens), so it'll be great to finally get around to him. Also, Fear and Loathing is another one where I've had the DVD of the film version for awhile, so as with No Country, that's another motivating factor.
I've been hearing good things about Oscar Wao from friends for a while now, so I'm really glad to get that one on my lists. Also, I figure any book that takes one of its epigraphs from a Fantastic Four comic can't be all bad! :D
14billiejean
I actually really like the movie No Country for Old Men as well. I'm interested to see what you think of it. I gave the book No Country for Old Men to my dad for his birthday, and he said that was quite the violent book. But he did like it.
The Oscar Wao book is definitely a great book. I read that on recommendation of my daughter. I expect more great things from Diaz.
The Oscar Wao book is definitely a great book. I read that on recommendation of my daughter. I expect more great things from Diaz.
15Cecrow
The movie was great, haven't read it. I've a similar rule, but with several sub-points. I'll read the book first, provided it was a book I ever intended to read. Definitely, if it's on my TBR pile already.
>13 artturnerjr:, yeah don't tell me e-books don't count (and why shouldn't they?), I have Darwin on e-book and I'm nearly done.
Wait, will it mean I can just chuck it? Okay, they don't count.
>13 artturnerjr:, yeah don't tell me e-books don't count (and why shouldn't they?), I have Darwin on e-book and I'm nearly done.
Wait, will it mean I can just chuck it? Okay, they don't count.
16billiejean
What about removing it from your device? I think and hope that they count.
17LittleTaiko
They better count as a couple on my list are ebooks. It's a book I own that needs to be read. Therefore it counts. At least in my world.
18Cecrow
lol, I was just kidding. A book is a book whether I read it, it's read to me, it's printed on the back of a paper bag, etc. The the novel is the novel, the format is the format.
19billiejean
Whew!
20LibraryLover23
Yes to Game of Thrones! I had that one on my list for ages and was intimidated to start it because I heard it was hard to keep track of all the characters, but I surprisingly had no trouble with that at all. In fact, it's one of those series where I think about the characters when I'm doing other things. So I hope you have the same (positive) experience whenever you get to it!
21Cecrow
>20 LibraryLover23:, you're right he's very good at his characters. There's definitely no confusing Tyrion with his brother Jaime, or getting any of the Stark siblings mixed up, etc.
22artturnerjr
Well, I "cheated" a bit and started one of the books on my lists (Doctor Sleep) because I finished rereading The Shining (which I really enjoyed reading again - like a fine wine, it just gets better with age) and couldn't wait until the new year to find out what happens next in the story. I was going to get the eBook from the library, but couldn't (a sore subject, and one which I will perhaps elaborate on at another time), so I got the hardcover from there instead. It looks like this:
>15 Cecrow:
I actually broke that rule just last week. I watched David Cronenberg's A History of Violence (excellent film - you should see it if you haven't already), not realizing it was based on the graphic novel of the same name. It's not a hard and fast rule - it's not like I penalize myself if I break it. :)
>15 Cecrow:
I actually broke that rule just last week. I watched David Cronenberg's A History of Violence (excellent film - you should see it if you haven't already), not realizing it was based on the graphic novel of the same name. It's not a hard and fast rule - it's not like I penalize myself if I break it. :)
23Cecrow
I don't think anyone should be so rigorous about a challenge that they forego a strong pleasure read, so go for it!
Definitely been in that boat, giving myself a little boost. Last year I had Darwin, the history book and the short story collection all started before January 1st. This year, looks like I've got two non-list books I'll be celebrating new year's day with and then some, before I get anything going. Ah well.
edit: Whoops, I fibbed. Read the first ten pages of Candide.
Definitely been in that boat, giving myself a little boost. Last year I had Darwin, the history book and the short story collection all started before January 1st. This year, looks like I've got two non-list books I'll be celebrating new year's day with and then some, before I get anything going. Ah well.
edit: Whoops, I fibbed. Read the first ten pages of Candide.
24artturnerjr
>20 LibraryLover23:
>21 Cecrow:
Sorry, I had meant to respond to these earlier and forgot. Yeah, my understanding is that once you get going on it, it's so engrossing that it's really not all that hard to keep track of all the characters/plot threads. If anything, I'm worried about getting too engrossed in it (i.e., wanted to read the series to the exclusion of everything else).
>23 Cecrow:
Well, I started 2016 reading that one ER book that I got in late 2015 (The Gods of H.P. Lovecraft), which delayed my start on my Challenge books, so I figure I'm entitled to ending 2016 with a Challenge book for 2017. :)
>21 Cecrow:
Sorry, I had meant to respond to these earlier and forgot. Yeah, my understanding is that once you get going on it, it's so engrossing that it's really not all that hard to keep track of all the characters/plot threads. If anything, I'm worried about getting too engrossed in it (i.e., wanted to read the series to the exclusion of everything else).
>23 Cecrow:
Well, I started 2016 reading that one ER book that I got in late 2015 (The Gods of H.P. Lovecraft), which delayed my start on my Challenge books, so I figure I'm entitled to ending 2016 with a Challenge book for 2017. :)
25Carmenere
Sweet list of TBR's, Art! Personally, I think Game of Thrones and Fear and Loathing will be highlights for you.
*pulling up a chair to watch how your new rule works out* Good luck!
*pulling up a chair to watch how your new rule works out* Good luck!
27artturnerjr
Okay! Halfway through Doctor Sleep already! King's ability to make a long (or long-ish - this one's a little over 500 pp.) novel read like a short one is very much in evidence here. Hoping the second half of it is as pleasurable as the first. :)
28Cecrow
>27 artturnerjr:, unlike, say ... trying to think of a completely random example, here ... Neal Stephenson?
29artturnerjr
>28 Cecrow:
Lol - yes! King's work doesn't have anywhere near the information density that Stephenson's does. Both are great, but King's definitely the more challenge-friendly of the two. :)
Lol - yes! King's work doesn't have anywhere near the information density that Stephenson's does. Both are great, but King's definitely the more challenge-friendly of the two. :)
30.Monkey.
Nice! I was just lamenting this morning about my slow-going as yet so I sat on the couch a while after lunch and am now almost halfway, too. :))
31billiejean
What about Stephenson? I have three of his books. Readable, but long?
32Narilka
I've only read one Stephenson novel, Snow Crash. It was long and tended to meander but still interesting. He got highly detailed about some of his subjects, in this case it was Sumerian myth and linguistics both of which I found fascinating. I'm not sure if all Stephenson novels are like that though.
33artturnerjr
>31 billiejean:
The only book of Stephenson's I've read is Cryptonomicon, which was my first-ever book for TBR Challenge back in 2012. It was The Book That Ate My Life for the first three months of that year, which is what Cecrow is joshing me about, as he is wont to do (all in good fun, of course). :)
Stephenson is very fond of infodumps*, which is usually a bad thing, but in his hands it generally isn't: he is King of the Infodumps, deploying them in much the same way as Jimi Hendrix deployed guitar solos - as untrammeled displays of shameless virtuosity. It's great, but a little exhausting: three or four chapters of Stephenson is generally enough to make me want to lay down and take a nap.
TV Tropes nails him pretty well, if you're in need of more information:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/NealStephenson
* http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Infodump
The only book of Stephenson's I've read is Cryptonomicon, which was my first-ever book for TBR Challenge back in 2012. It was The Book That Ate My Life for the first three months of that year, which is what Cecrow is joshing me about, as he is wont to do (all in good fun, of course). :)
Stephenson is very fond of infodumps*, which is usually a bad thing, but in his hands it generally isn't: he is King of the Infodumps, deploying them in much the same way as Jimi Hendrix deployed guitar solos - as untrammeled displays of shameless virtuosity. It's great, but a little exhausting: three or four chapters of Stephenson is generally enough to make me want to lay down and take a nap.
TV Tropes nails him pretty well, if you're in need of more information:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/NealStephenson
* http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Infodump
34Cecrow
>33 artturnerjr:, and you can dish it back at me about the Beagle any old time you like ;) The thought of ever reading Darwin again .... shudder ....
35DanieXJ
>28 Cecrow: You made my nose burn 'cause water tried to come back out it I laughed so hard.
I like to think of Stephenson as an... acquired taste... like Coffee... well, I'm not a great fan of coffee, and while I think he's brilliant, not really a great fan of Stephenson either. I generally want to read his plots, because they are just so intriguing to think about, but I haven't yet gotten all the way through one of his books. (Although I've started a few of them including Snow Crash and Seveneves)
I like to think of Stephenson as an... acquired taste... like Coffee... well, I'm not a great fan of coffee, and while I think he's brilliant, not really a great fan of Stephenson either. I generally want to read his plots, because they are just so intriguing to think about, but I haven't yet gotten all the way through one of his books. (Although I've started a few of them including Snow Crash and Seveneves)
36billiejean
Thanks for the link, but that was kind of scary. Plus it also mentioned Pynchon -- which means I have more books to worry about. Luckily, none of those books are on my 2017 lists. :)
37artturnerjr
Woo-hoo! Book #1 (Doctor Sleep) is done. I really enjoyed that one a lot. The potential for screw-ups in writing a sequel to something as iconic as The Shining is profound (something that King, as he states in the author's note following the end of the novel proper, was quite aware of), but this is as much of a white-knuckle read as its predecessor. A solid 4.5/5 stars for this one. 8)
What's next? Hmm. Due for something from the main list now, obviously - gotta stick to my plan. I think I've got it down to either Daredevil: Predator's Smile or Down and Out in Paris and London, but I'll have to get back to you all on that one.
What's next? Hmm. Due for something from the main list now, obviously - gotta stick to my plan. I think I've got it down to either Daredevil: Predator's Smile or Down and Out in Paris and London, but I'll have to get back to you all on that one.
40artturnerjr
I decided on Down and Out in Paris and London. That is all. :)
42Cecrow
Alright, so, brass tacks: the plan was read a primary, then an alternate. If you start with an alternate, does that mean you have to read two primaries before you read another alternate? Just trying to figure this out. :D
43artturnerjr
>41 majkia:
Thanks!
>42 Cecrow:
No. Look at >4 artturnerjr: again. I allowed myself an exception with Doctor Sleep, since I started it before the beginning of 2017. Now that that's done, I go back to the original plan, which is a main, then an alternate, then a main, then an alternate, etc. Basically, I have to read a main to earn an alternate. Make sense?
Thanks!
>42 Cecrow:
No. Look at >4 artturnerjr: again. I allowed myself an exception with Doctor Sleep, since I started it before the beginning of 2017. Now that that's done, I go back to the original plan, which is a main, then an alternate, then a main, then an alternate, etc. Basically, I have to read a main to earn an alternate. Make sense?
44Cecrow
>43 artturnerjr:, got it! Down and Out is on my TBR watch list, so to speak, so I'll wait for your opinion on that one. By the sound of the title I figured 'depressing', but I see reviews suggesting otherwise.
45artturnerjr
>44 Cecrow:
By the sound of the title I figured 'depressing', but I see reviews suggesting otherwise.
Yeah, could turn out that way. OTOH, I am already seeing little flashes of humor and I'm only on the second chapter, so that's reassuring.
By the sound of the title I figured 'depressing', but I see reviews suggesting otherwise.
Yeah, could turn out that way. OTOH, I am already seeing little flashes of humor and I'm only on the second chapter, so that's reassuring.
46billiejean
Congrats on finishing Doctor Sleep. My daughter told me that I don't need to reread The Shining to read it. Which is good since I don't have a copy of it. What do you think? Can I get by on old memories plus more recent viewing the movie and mini-series?
47artturnerjr
>46 billiejean:
Thanks! Yeah, you should be fine without rereading The Shining - King jogs your memory of it numerous times in Doctor Sleep.
Thanks! Yeah, you should be fine without rereading The Shining - King jogs your memory of it numerous times in Doctor Sleep.
48billiejean
That is good news. And thanks.
49artturnerjr
My Kindle tells me I'm a little past halfway through Down and Out in Paris and London. Have to remember to reread this the next time I catch myself complaining about my job and/or lot in life. Oh, and it doesn't make me exactly eager to eat at a French restaurant any time soon. :X
50Cecrow
Orwell in the news:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/1984-sales-boom-trump-1.3951359
http://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/1984-sales-boom-trump-1.3951359
51artturnerjr
>50 Cecrow:
Hey! Something good has come out of the Trump presidency after all! :D
PS Love Chuck Todd calling Kellyanne Conway on her BS in that clip. :)
Hey! Something good has come out of the Trump presidency after all! :D
PS Love Chuck Todd calling Kellyanne Conway on her BS in that clip. :)
52artturnerjr
Better Late Than Never Dept.: what all the print books on my Challenge lists look like on the shelf:
54Narilka
>52 artturnerjr: Looks great :)
55billiejean
I love seeing all the books on your shelf -- ready to go!
56artturnerjr
Okay! Finished book #2 (and #1 off the main list) - Down and Out in Paris and London. I have to say I don't think I picked the best time to read this one - as everyone who hasn't been living under a rock is aware, this has been a very tumultuous time in geopolitics, and Orwell's otherwise very fine memoir of his time at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder didn't make for a great respite from it. Still, I'm glad I read it, and it was interesting to me to mentally compare this one with his later work and see how he developed as a writer and an intellectual. 4 stars out of 5 for me (for now).
Up next: Promethea Book 1, which will hopefully be a little bit of a lighter read than the Orwell was.
>53 Cecrow:
Lol - yeah, there's a whole lotta comics in that one. Weighs a ton, too. :/
>54 Narilka:
>55 billiejean:
Thanks!
Up next: Promethea Book 1, which will hopefully be a little bit of a lighter read than the Orwell was.
>53 Cecrow:
Lol - yeah, there's a whole lotta comics in that one. Weighs a ton, too. :/
>54 Narilka:
>55 billiejean:
Thanks!
57Cecrow
>56 artturnerjr:, on the other hand it's Alan Moore, and he doesn't go for light and breezy, lol. Have you been checking out his new one, Jerusalem?
58artturnerjr
>57 Cecrow:
on the other hand it's Alan Moore, and he doesn't go for light and breezy, lol.
No, as a general rule, he does not. :)
Have you been checking out his new one, Jerusalem?
Uh, no lol. Thought about making it one of my Challenge books this year (my local public library has a copy, so I wouldn't have to pay for it), but it's just too big - Wikipedia says it's one of the 10 longest novels written in the English language.* So no. Maybe next year. Maybe I'll make it the only book on my list! (I can do that, right? :) )
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_(Moore_novel)
on the other hand it's Alan Moore, and he doesn't go for light and breezy, lol.
No, as a general rule, he does not. :)
Have you been checking out his new one, Jerusalem?
Uh, no lol. Thought about making it one of my Challenge books this year (my local public library has a copy, so I wouldn't have to pay for it), but it's just too big - Wikipedia says it's one of the 10 longest novels written in the English language.* So no. Maybe next year. Maybe I'll make it the only book on my list! (I can do that, right? :) )
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_(Moore_novel)
60artturnerjr
Book #3 (Promethea Book 1) is finished. This was a good one, although it is of course difficult to assess the quality of the whole series based on just this installment (it only collects issues 1-6 of a 32-issue series), it's certainly an interesting premise: Sophie Bangs is a college student who discovers Promethea, a reoccurring mythical character who keeps popping up in literature and popular culture. Turns out there's a good reason for this - she's real. Early on, Sophie discovers she can actually transform herself into Promethea, a la Billy Batson/Captain Marvel. Apparently the series goes on to expound upon Alan Moore's views on the occult (he is, rather famously, a self-proclaimed magician (in the Gandalf sense rather than the David Copperfield sense)), although there's very little of that at this point in the story. Like I said - interesting stuff.
Up next: oh boy. Well, there's a non-Challenge novella (the acclaimed Houston, Houston Do You Read? by James Tiptree, Jr.) that I've had my eye on for a while - think I'm going to try to knock that off in the next week or so. After that? Well, it's time for one off the main list. After much trepidation, I've decided it's going to be (drum roll, please) The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich:
It just seems like an important book to read this year.
Up next: oh boy. Well, there's a non-Challenge novella (the acclaimed Houston, Houston Do You Read? by James Tiptree, Jr.) that I've had my eye on for a while - think I'm going to try to knock that off in the next week or so. After that? Well, it's time for one off the main list. After much trepidation, I've decided it's going to be (drum roll, please) The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich:
It just seems like an important book to read this year.
61Cecrow
Expect you'll return for the rest of Promethea at some point?
Wow wow wow! Exciting that you're taking the Shirer plunge! It's a monster to be sure, but never boring and with just the right degree of detail I think. I read the paperback copy but traded up for a nice hardcover at a book sale afterwards - the one in your image, in fact. Definite keeper.
Wow wow wow! Exciting that you're taking the Shirer plunge! It's a monster to be sure, but never boring and with just the right degree of detail I think. I read the paperback copy but traded up for a nice hardcover at a book sale afterwards - the one in your image, in fact. Definite keeper.
62artturnerjr
>61 Cecrow:
Expect you'll return for the rest of Promethea at some point?
Oh yeah, absolutely. Alan Moore is my very favorite writer, if I had to name one. I want to read all of his stuff, eventually.
Wow wow wow! Exciting that you're taking the Shirer plunge! It's a monster to be sure, but never boring and with just the right degree of detail I think. I read the paperback copy but traded up for a nice hardcover at a book sale afterwards - the one in your image, in fact. Definite keeper.
Yeah, I'm pretty excited, too - a little nervous, too, but excited. It struck me that, as fascinated as I am with World War II history, I have never read a proper grown-up history book on Nazi Germany. And if I'm going to continue to make the argument (as I have been) that we're for all intents and purposes witnessing an attempted neo-fascist coup of the US government, I'm probably going to want to have my facts straight on the matter, right? :D
Expect you'll return for the rest of Promethea at some point?
Oh yeah, absolutely. Alan Moore is my very favorite writer, if I had to name one. I want to read all of his stuff, eventually.
Wow wow wow! Exciting that you're taking the Shirer plunge! It's a monster to be sure, but never boring and with just the right degree of detail I think. I read the paperback copy but traded up for a nice hardcover at a book sale afterwards - the one in your image, in fact. Definite keeper.
Yeah, I'm pretty excited, too - a little nervous, too, but excited. It struck me that, as fascinated as I am with World War II history, I have never read a proper grown-up history book on Nazi Germany. And if I'm going to continue to make the argument (as I have been) that we're for all intents and purposes witnessing an attempted neo-fascist coup of the US government, I'm probably going to want to have my facts straight on the matter, right? :D
63Narilka
>60 artturnerjr: That's an intimidating read for the page length if nothing else!
65billiejean
I'm also excited that you are reading the Shirer book. I have had that book forever. With tiny print. So I look forward to seeing what you think of it. Maybe it will motivate me to read it as well. But not this year.
66artturnerjr
>65 billiejean:
Well, I am liking it a lot so far but I am still only on the first chapter lol. Yeah, it's a tough one to find a slot for when you've already got other commitments (reading or otherwise).
Well, I am liking it a lot so far but I am still only on the first chapter lol. Yeah, it's a tough one to find a slot for when you've already got other commitments (reading or otherwise).
67billiejean
I'm glad that you are enjoying it so far. Some history books are not too easy for me to read.
68artturnerjr
>67 billiejean:
I'm right there with ya. My knowledge of pre-20th century history, in particular, is spotty at best, which tends to make it a challenging field of study for me. Shirer's book, however, is clearly written as a popular book on the subject, which may be one of the reasons that so many scholars dislike it. :)
I'm right there with ya. My knowledge of pre-20th century history, in particular, is spotty at best, which tends to make it a challenging field of study for me. Shirer's book, however, is clearly written as a popular book on the subject, which may be one of the reasons that so many scholars dislike it. :)
69billiejean
I did not realize it was popular history. The superfine print in my copy makes it look scholarly. :)
70artturnerjr
>69 billiejean:
Well, it is more scholarly than some histories - it has footnotes and whatnot, and it is certainly extensively researched. It was also a huge popular success, however, which apparently surprised Shirer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_and_Fall_of_the_Third_Reich#Success_and_a...
Well, it is more scholarly than some histories - it has footnotes and whatnot, and it is certainly extensively researched. It was also a huge popular success, however, which apparently surprised Shirer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_and_Fall_of_the_Third_Reich#Success_and_a...
71billiejean
Interesting!
72billiejean
And, thanks for the link.
74artturnerjr
Okay! Finally hit the one-quarter mark on Rise and Fall of the Third Reich (I'll be checking in with this one every 300 pp. or so, rather than just my usual halfway mark check-in, just because it's such a long book - don't want y'all to think I died or anything ;)). This is an interesting (and occasionally fascinating) albeit labor-intensive read. The previous chapter I completed (entitled Life in the Third Reich: 1933-37) was maybe the most riveting one so far: it dealt with what life was like for the average working-class German under Hitler's regime, the persecution of the churches, the book burnings (tough reading for an LTer, let me tell ya!), etc. - exactly the sort of things I wanted to learn about when I picked this book up. If I have a significant complaint, it is that it is sometimes difficult to keep track of the numerous dramatis personæ in the story - it would be helpful if there was a list of all the major players in the Third Reich (with photographs, maybe?) at the front of the book, but not having one is hardly an insurmountable obstacle (especially with that kooky Internet thing we have these days :)).
So - right now I'm taking a brief break from this one to reread the chapter on singer-songwriter Randy Newman in Greil Marcus' excellent Mystery Train: Images of America in Rock 'n' Roll Music for a sort of mini-research project I've got going on, and then it's back to the Nazis. :)
So - right now I'm taking a brief break from this one to reread the chapter on singer-songwriter Randy Newman in Greil Marcus' excellent Mystery Train: Images of America in Rock 'n' Roll Music for a sort of mini-research project I've got going on, and then it's back to the Nazis. :)
75Cecrow
I found similar, that it was unexpectedly good reading through all those early lead-in chapters. I'm sorry I remember so little of the details now (almost nothing, actually); you make me want to flip back through it again.
76artturnerjr
>75 Cecrow:
I think, as I grow older, that's the stuff that fascinates me more than all the WWII-era goings-on (interesting as that is): how do the citizens of a country that, in many ways, is one of the shining jewels of Western civilization hand the keys over to a bunch of fascists? It's not like there was a military coup or anything - although there was obviously a lot of intimidation and manipulation going on, Hitler was the guy the majority of Germans wanted to lead them. It's not like his intentions weren't clear - Mein Kampf was published in '25-'26, and Hitler's plan for Germany (as well as his monstrous antisemitism, etc.) are pretty clearly laid out therein. In spite of all the research I've done on the matter, the answer continues to elude me.
I think, as I grow older, that's the stuff that fascinates me more than all the WWII-era goings-on (interesting as that is): how do the citizens of a country that, in many ways, is one of the shining jewels of Western civilization hand the keys over to a bunch of fascists? It's not like there was a military coup or anything - although there was obviously a lot of intimidation and manipulation going on, Hitler was the guy the majority of Germans wanted to lead them. It's not like his intentions weren't clear - Mein Kampf was published in '25-'26, and Hitler's plan for Germany (as well as his monstrous antisemitism, etc.) are pretty clearly laid out therein. In spite of all the research I've done on the matter, the answer continues to elude me.
78billiejean
You are zooming along on that tome. Have you read Mein Kampf? I've heard that it's also quite long and not easy to read. I think I should read both books someday.
79artturnerjr
>78 billiejean:
Lol - I don't know if "zooming along" is the phrase I'd use, but thanks for saying so.
Mein Kampf? Ugh, no, I'm not that courageous lol. Shirer describes it in a fair amount of detail in his book, and it doesn't seem to me to be the sort of thing I could stomach. I am sickened enough by antisemitic white nationalists in my own country now* - I don't think I could handle the OG.
*See, for example, https://www.librarything.com/topic/247510#6009772
Lol - I don't know if "zooming along" is the phrase I'd use, but thanks for saying so.
Mein Kampf? Ugh, no, I'm not that courageous lol. Shirer describes it in a fair amount of detail in his book, and it doesn't seem to me to be the sort of thing I could stomach. I am sickened enough by antisemitic white nationalists in my own country now* - I don't think I could handle the OG.
*See, for example, https://www.librarything.com/topic/247510#6009772
80billiejean
I don't know if I could read it either. I heard that it totally spells out his plans to do exactly what he did, which is amazing to me. I guess no one read it.
81Cecrow
As other examples would indicate, there's a difference between reading/hearing someone's lunatic ravings and believing they will ever actually make good on them, given half a chance. Even faced with it in black and white, the inclination lurks to be dismissive; it's simply too incredible.
82.Monkey.
*pops in* Glad you enjoyed Doctor Sleep! I'll get to it, sometime. I want to reread The Shining before I do though. Actually I want to go through and read all of King in chronological order since he so often makes reference to previous works in later ones.
>81 Cecrow: Very true. Plus he gave people the scapegoat they wanted.
>81 Cecrow: Very true. Plus he gave people the scapegoat they wanted.
83Cecrow
>82 .Monkey.:, "all of King in chronological order" ... I mean, I know you like cats but I'm pretty sure the extra lives don't rub off.
84artturnerjr
>80 billiejean:
Shirer addresses more or less these exact points in his book:
Not every German who bought a copy of Mein Kampf necessarily read it. I have heard many a Nazi stalwart complain that it was hard going and not a few admit - in private - that they were never able to get to the end of its 782 turgid pages. But it might be argued that had more non-Nazi Germans read it before 1933 and had the foreign statesmen of the world perused it carefully while there was still time, both Germany and the world might have been saved from catastrophe. For whatever other accusations can be made against Adolf Hitler, no one can accuse him of not putting down in writing exactly the kind of Germany he intended to make if he ever came to power and the kind of world he meant to create by armed German conquest. The blueprint of the Third Reich and, what is more, of the barbaric New Order which Hitler inflicted on conquered Europe in the triumphant years between 1939 and 1945 is set down in all its appalling crudity at great length and in detail between the covers of this revealing book.
Shirer addresses more or less these exact points in his book:
Not every German who bought a copy of Mein Kampf necessarily read it. I have heard many a Nazi stalwart complain that it was hard going and not a few admit - in private - that they were never able to get to the end of its 782 turgid pages. But it might be argued that had more non-Nazi Germans read it before 1933 and had the foreign statesmen of the world perused it carefully while there was still time, both Germany and the world might have been saved from catastrophe. For whatever other accusations can be made against Adolf Hitler, no one can accuse him of not putting down in writing exactly the kind of Germany he intended to make if he ever came to power and the kind of world he meant to create by armed German conquest. The blueprint of the Third Reich and, what is more, of the barbaric New Order which Hitler inflicted on conquered Europe in the triumphant years between 1939 and 1945 is set down in all its appalling crudity at great length and in detail between the covers of this revealing book.
85billiejean
Interesting -- I have seen some other WW2 books that I didn't think I could read. Wannsee Conference, maybe. I'm not sure if the touchstone is the same book that I saw. Some things are just too hard to read. But maybe more reading of Mein Kampf could have averted disaster. It's something to think about. Now you are making me want to read the Shirer book, too, tiny print notwithstanding.
86artturnerjr
>85 billiejean:
Now you are making me want to read the Shirer book, too, tiny print notwithstanding.
Maybe you could look into an eBook edition of it; I wouldn't think it would be terribly expensive.
Now you are making me want to read the Shirer book, too, tiny print notwithstanding.
Maybe you could look into an eBook edition of it; I wouldn't think it would be terribly expensive.
87billiejean
That is a great idea. I really love my kindle.
88artturnerjr
>87 billiejean:
Yeah, they're pretty great, aren't they? I kinda miss mine, having been stuck in my current giant print tome for what seems like forever. :(
Yeah, they're pretty great, aren't they? I kinda miss mine, having been stuck in my current giant print tome for what seems like forever. :(
89.Monkey.
>83 Cecrow: LOL. King's books are super fast reads though. Only the giants like It and The Stand take a little longer. :P
90Cecrow
Jerry Pournelle, co-author of Lucifer's Hammer died last week: https://www.tor.com/2017/09/14/a-master-departs-a-spaceship-for-the-king-by-jerr...