Beowulf LE coming 27 June 2023

Now being advertised on Folio's Instagram.

Page with some early info also up:
https://www.foliosociety.com/uk/beowulf

They are really doing quite a lot to promote it. Must be for the Instagram/Facebook crowd.

Reservedly excited.

Ah, the Heaney translation, can certainly get behind that. Going to guess a $700-$1200 title.

>4 Shadekeep: Such a short work, it will be interesting to see how they fluff it over the $1k mark.

>5 L.Bloom: the commemorative mead and flagon contained in the exclusive metallic-foiled cardboard dragon case containing the book and single-page facsimile of the opening page of the MS Cotton manuscript will certainly help push it over the line.

This looks fantastic. I’ll guess they price it at £600 (if the Henry James is £500 this has to cost more?)

>5 L.Bloom: I have faith in their impenetrable pricing logic that they'll find a way.

I've always considered the so-called SE to be one of Folio's finest publishing achievements. I'm struggling to think of a reason I might like this any better.

>9 folio_books: Because it will be new and FS will assure you it is much better :).

>10 assemblyman:

Ah, right. Why didn't I think of that?

Seamus Heyney again instead of someone different... I hope the illustrations won't be my cup of tea, that would certainly get rid of this temptation quickly. Especially considering I already have their SE and the Easton Press edition, which has gorgeous illustrations.

And they'll misspell it: "Beofox" on the title page! Those dopes.

What Glenn says, >9 folio_books:

I assume this is be targetted at the people who don't already own the Heaney SE.

>11 folio_books: You just don't look at enough social media. It will show you the way.

Seriously it looks like it could be great, but I spent a long time wanting the SE and I was not disappointed when I did get it. The price will be interesting.

This is definitely a missed opportunity if it is not printed letterpress.

>14 PartTimeBookAddict: And they'll misspell it: "Beofox" on the title page! Those dopes.

That did make me laugh!

It will be the limitation page letterpress only which I don’t know why they bother doing.

>20 Charon49: Haha, absolutely! It's like those fake Centipede press facsimile signatures.

>21 Lukas1990: I'm not sure how I feel about facsimile signatures. It's a bit silly, but it's clearly marked as such in Centipede Press (from what I've seen). There's some sense of completeness I suppose, people value presidential signatures even if they're done by autopen. The rubber stamp had a heyday and doesn't dissuade collecting. You enter some of that weird area of what 'value' is to different people; in the case of the signature of dead authors clearly there was never any intent involved from anyone but the estate. Does that have value? Would I want a facsimile Shakespeare doodle in a Shakespeare collection? Why does JRR Tolkien's signature feature in so many editions of his books?
If we found some earlier manuscript of Beowulf that included a note of authorship or a self portrait in the margin it'd be big news even if it's unlikely to be the point of origin for the story.

Flight of fancy aside, I'm so miffed I missed out on the earlier SE. I'd love to have a nice edition of Beowulf but this will likely price me out.

>1 ubiquitousuk: Thank you for posting this. I own the original fine edition (one of my favorite Folios) so I’ll probably pass here. That said, if this one surprises and is letterpress, I may have to rethink as I love Heaney‘s translation. It’s a work of art in itself.

From the short video. Looks like the box and cover.

_

The FS has published two previous editions of Beowulf. They are reviewed at https://www.librarything.com/topic/284484

>24 Aleks3000: There's something about Folio's art as of late that leaves me unimpressed. The cover looks like it was designed to be on facebook or instagram. Even the video looks like a silly video game or cheesy introduction to a show. Maybe im showing my age but I much prefer the less flashy older folio art.

I agree with others that if it's not letterpress it's a hard pass. I cherish the older version and not sure if this will be an 'upgrade' at likely 3 times the cost.

The good thing about more fancy Folio Beowulf is that more fancy Folio Beowulf (quantity of fine SE + upcoming LE) = greater supply of fancy Folio Beowulf; demand will likely not increase sufficiently to absorb new supply (how many customers really are in the market for $200+ Folio Society Beowulf?).

Thus, the overall ratio of demand to supply will likely decrease. Which implies the mean price overall will likely decrease. Once the hype has settled.

So, look forward to better prices on the fine SE!

(I already have a copy of the fine SE, and if I could wave a magic wand the only thing I would change about it would be to upgrade the already decent paper to something truly luxurious. It is otherwise pretty much flawless, in my opinion.)

There’s a copy of the fine edition on eBay for £200 OBO, which is a decent price.

Also, can we all start a drinking game?

Every time someone says the Folio Society book looks like it’s designed for Instagram, or their new fans only value posting pretty books on Tik Tok or Facebook, we take a shot of our favourite liquor.

>26 Joshbooks1: *takes a shot*

>28 What_What: I'll join you in that! Sad to say of late I'm not finding this group as enjoyable as I used to ...

>28 What_What: I have another one. Let's take a shot every time someone logs into a social media forum to complain about others sharing their opinions on said forum.

>28 What_What: *takes a shot*

>28 What_What: I retract my statement! The book looks utterly magnificent and I adore the color schemes and what Folio decided to do here. It's so rad that Folio decided to turn the first work in English literature, written in or around the 10th century, into such a hip looking design! We get really bright colors, cool font, slipcase, and, best of all, a video of old meets new where we see art horses rolling around with some scary monsters doing back-flips and another either breathing lava or has a really strange long and contorted tongue (not sure the message here: is the monster sick? disfigured? anatomically girthy in certain regions? Either way, it brings out emotion and one can't feel a little compassion for this beast). It's also okay that Folio likely won't make this letterpress - they certainly made up for it. It's going to be so trendsetting on my shelf when I post it on Facebook that skipping letterpress doesn't even matter! It's also okay with their recent track record of gorging their customers on limited editions - I'm sure this wont be the case for this volume! I'm so so very excited!

On a side note, this is getting a little absurd. Encouraging others to insult users with posts that you don't like by using a game that was popular fifteen years ago. I mean, I changed what I thought and became more positive on this new review because people were drinking shots at 7am at my expense and that's a lot for an individual to take in. Not only do people hate my point of view, they hate it so much that they are drinking hard alcohol right when they wake up. On a book comment website people despise my comments so much they are putting being an alcoholic on the table in solidarity to shame me.

(edit last paragraph)

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."

F. Scott Fitzgerald

>32 bacchus.: Until this happens... (BTW, that's one trigger for each opposing idea.)

>34 AlexBookshelfFrog: I don't think anyone has any more information than what's on the site or shared on by the FS on their social media channels.

>34 AlexBookshelfFrog:
What would be reasonable, in your opinion?

>37 AlexBookshelfFrog: You seem to be very knowledgeable. Care to share a few photos of your collection?

>39 AlexBookshelfFrog: Anything on the 'bookshelf', regale us! Only nerves of steel here :)

>39 AlexBookshelfFrog: I would love to see your collection, particularly those from Books Illustrated, Curious King and Lyra!

>39 AlexBookshelfFrog: I think the Hitchhikers is a decent value for money proposition though it isn’t my favourite LE. In terms of value for money I think that 5 volumes for £600 is good. You describe FS LE as “overpriced”. What do you think the Curious King Hitchhikers will cost?

>39 AlexBookshelfFrog: I'd REALLY love to see your Curious King books. Maybe you're visiting us from the future ... :)

>37 AlexBookshelfFrog: “nothing special here beside its bound in leather. Ever Easton Press book is bound too and costs 1/5 of this”

The EP Beowulf limited edition sold initially for $325 and is currently listed on ebay for $450.

>46 AlexBookshelfFrog:
How to post a picture instructions are on the wiki at https://wiki.librarything.com/index.php/Groups:Folio_Society_Devotees#How_to_add...

>47 AlexBookshelfFrog: I have the Hitchhikers set and love it. I don't see any issues with the foil with the possible exception of a tiny couple of spots along the inside edge of the front cover. I reread the first book and enjoyed it more than I did as a kid and look forward to the rest of the series.

But on topic- I enjoy the Heaney translation but don't feel the need to upgrade the Folio SE which is a gem. I'm hoping the new edition surpasses it.

>37 AlexBookshelfFrog: I'd like to mention that the FS Roadside Picnic LE is actually clothbound and not paperbound like the standard edition! Personally I am obsessed with its design — it really works for me.

>16 gmacaree: That would be me, then. Sounds interesting so far.

>26 Joshbooks1: I agree with you on the video, creating animations from the illustrations makes no sense to me. If the illustrations are great, they should be shown as they will be in the final product. If they're not good enough to stand alone without being animated to make them more flashy, then why are they in the book?

>53 ExLibrisDavid: The TikTok crowd expects those kinds of things, and that seems to be a market FS is chasing these days.

>54 Shadekeep: *takes a shot*

>53 ExLibrisDavid: I thought the video was pretty exciting when I first viewed it, when announced. I just re-watched and still like it, especially with the bombastic music they play behind it. When transferring to a different medium, art changes.

I think it is the correct move to take advantage of the capability to transform images here to enhance the unique and interesting designs incorporated in this edition. (It would be another thing if these images aren't in the book).

When the book arrives, I won't expect the pictures to move just like I won't wonder where the drumming is, but this video produced by the FS might ignite my imagination.

Looks great, but I'll stick to my fine SE...

https://www.foliosociety.com/row/beowulf-limited-edition.html

I was trying to buy this morning and I can’t find it on the website anymore. I want to call the call center they’re saying sold out or they can’t find it. It’s a $925, I doubt it sold out in a few hours…. Anyone else have luck?

It's here. A few minutes ago it was showing as Sold Out but that has changed and you can now order it.

>58 jlallred2000: As mentioned in their publicity, it was only supposed to go on sale at 2pm UK time (though as usual it went live about 15 minutes early) which will be why you were unable to purchase earlier.

£625 for what you get doesn't really tempt me…

Never mind, I’m a Luddite

Haha, £625. It's a sizeable volume, especially given the all leather binding, I'll give it that and I do see SOME appeal to the design and artwork but it's not love at first sight so more likely as not will skip it. I still think the original fine edition is head and shoulders above this one.

>58 jlallred2000: The link at >57 Dr.Fiddy: works fine for me.
An attractive edition I think, but not sure it is £625 attractive. It looks on a par with the Bovary LE, which I own and very much like, yet is more than twice the price. A bigger book and leather-bound (rather than silk), but still.

Nice, but not nice enough for the price I think

Well dang. Since I missed the SE I was hoping to get this one, but it doesn't particularly move me. Maybe at half the price, but as it stands, this isn't worth nearly a thousand dollars US to me. Even if it were letterpress I'd be challenged to justify the purchase.

I really don't like the addition of prints with books. They will never be framed and are just waiting to be damaged. Just feels like a reason to raise the price for something that few want.

Is anyone else disappointed the illustrations aren't animated, the way they showed them in the teaser video? I also bet dramatic music doesn't start blaring when you take the book out of the clamshell. Disappointed!

I was tempted recently by the Amaranthine Sherlock Holmes collection & im still puzzled that they can produce a 200 piece limited edition which is fully letterpress printed & bound in lambskin with solander case, handmade end-papers etc etc for £520 (or £180 for letterpress printed without the leather etc) yet FS asks £625 for a book with a similar specification, much higher limitation & with not a whiff of letterpress apart from the limitation page.

I do really love prints with books — I never frame them but they always seem to fit comfortably within the slipcase, solander box, etc. and pulling them out each time I handle the book brings me joy.

The other FS Beowulf that people love doesn't appeal to me so I do like this one better, but like other people have said, I don't look at it and go "I need that!!"

Also, I kind of wish this edition was smaller.

>67 What_What: Give it a few more decades and i'm sure dynamic memory ink will become a thing.

My SE will maintain it's honored place on my shelves, undisturbed by this newcomer. I prefer the SE's design, and it's price. Besides, as I've said before, I don't buy LE's.

>64 DMulvee: It begs the question: Who is this price aimed at?

I check all the boxes for someone who should buy this LE:
- I've been wanting a great edition of this work for some years.
- I love Folio Society books
- I have the means to buy FS LEs

And yet, this price just feels incorrect...

>68 antinous_in_london: I need Amaranthine to show us their Catch-22 so that I can compare it to Beowulf and feel extra confident about not jumping on the latter. 😂

>72 L.Bloom: The Herodotus LE cost me £345. It was a huge book with an almost identical spec (lambskin bound, 2 colour print, gilded page edges etc). Allowing for inflation etc even the more recent Thucydides at £400 seemed quite reasonable. I just can’t see the extra £280/£225 value in this edition - unless the extra cash is being eaten up by rights for the Heaney estate

I still much prefer the SE but it looks okay. I like the illustrations but stylistically I don't think they suit Beowulf. I think the yellow leather is a bit in your face but that maybe just the pictures on the website. The count is now 552 with nearly 200 sold already so its off to a good start sale wise.

>75 assemblyman: If you don't mind me asking: how does one see the count of remaining copies?

>75 assemblyman: Possibly, though in the past they have sometimes not put all stock live on the site upon release, so the number drops down then suddenly another 100/200 appear as they add the remaining stock - i guess it’s a way of increasing FOMO. Similar to SE’s appearing on the ‘last chance to buy’ page with a counter then suddenly a reprint of an extra 500 copies appear & it isn the ‘last chance to buy’ after all ! They could have put 600 live on the site & sold 48

>68 antinous_in_london: It’s straightforward - luxury products are priced at what they think the market can bear, not what it costs to produce. And clearly it’s been priced correctly - over 200 copies have already sold.

Looks really nice, and really like the size (14inch height). But not convinced at that price.

How i miss the old days of Folio. $1,000 for that? I dont like chidren's literature but compare Beowulf to Thornwillows half leather Charlotte's Web and it makes one's head spin.

>76 BooksFriendsNotFood: You just see how many the website will allow in you basket.

>77 antinous_in_london: That's true and you could be right.

>81 assemblyman: Ah that makes sense, thanks!

Eh, not a fan - I like the illustrations well enough, but the yellow and blue cover just seems a bit garish to me. Fingers crossed that there'll be more Beowulf SEs around on eBay though! Would love to finally snag one!

>78 What_What: My comment had nothing to do with the cost of production or the price of luxury goods in the marketplace but with FS’s lack of ambition. As i said, for the same price they are charging (or lower) other publishers are able to produce volumes of a greater physical quality (ie utilising letterpress, better papers, hand-marbled end-papers etc) & still be profitable, so financially it is not above them to achieve, they just seem to have no interest in doing it.

I seem to be a minority here but in a word - Ugh!

Much prefer the gorgeous half-leather 2010 SE which unfortunately I didn't buy, and even the earlier 1973 SE is quite nicely produced.

I really wish they had just reprinted the SE, it's preferable in pretty much every way to me.

Oh, and this book marks another case of the "US gratuity" - the exchange rate price should be around $800, so they are generously offering it to us in the States at a mere $925.

>84 antinous_in_london: Yes exactly.

All I can see is that they put Paul Bunyan from Fargo on the cover:

https://medium.com/feverdreams/licking-the-three-cent-stamp-fargo-1996-5d53c7fea...

The illustrations are really not my cup of tea, so that's that. Thank goodness, considering I already have the two previous FS editions as well as the gorgeous limited Easton Press edition. And the price is really quite steep for what you get.

And once again, I'll gladly keep my original SE.

Looks stunning. The yellow and blue design really works for me.

I think it's very nice, and I like the new illustrations, but -- $1,000??

This is a case where I respect but do not actually like the art and design. If I had to buy a fine edition of Beowulf, I'd rather go on the secondary market and get the 2010 SE.

It’s not my cup of tea but i would still be interested to hear more from those who have bought it or are intending to buy it.

Oh god, that mustard yellow. Make it stop...

I would lots rather have Turn of the Screw for the sale price of $580, or even the regular price of $725, than Beowulf for $925. There are many nice Beowulfs around.

Like many others, as expected, my wallet is safe regarding this one. Even if money were no question, I think I would still prefer my copy of the original fine edition with this translation, at least until a private press, letterpress version appears.

In the FS video promo, there's a moment where the book is brown (as shown in the image below) before it turns yellow. I think I prefer the brown color, and if they had made the book smaller so as to make for a more pleasant handheld reading experience and if they'd also had more than three illustrations directly on the pages with text*, it may have been more up my alley.

*Honestly, after the awesome animated video promo, I was expecting the illustrations to interact with the text more from a visual standpoint, but with mainly two-page spreads, this is clearly not the case.

>77 antinous_in_london: Your suspicions were correct. The count in the basket is now up to 639 so 111 actually sold.

>77 antinous_in_london: Maybe the cart system is linked to their actual inventory, and like many other LEs, they simply didn’t have all in stock on the first day.

>84 antinous_in_london: I agree with that. I think Folio should really consider upping the value proposition of their LEs. While I'm not saying it's comparable to Beowulf in all aspects, I would like to illustrate your point again with another title which I just received: The Hill from Nomad Letterpress. It's a wonderful book, and a tremendous amount of thought has clearly gone into it. But let's just consider the value proposition. The book is the first publication of a work from a well-known author (Max Porter), extensively and beautifully illustrated by a renowned wood engraver (Hilary Paynter), printed letterpress and direct from the blocks on watermarked Zerkall mould-made paper, limited (874 copies) and numbered. Oh yes, and mine came with a hand-written thank you note from the publisher and wrapped in a letterpress printed poster. And all this for the price of a Folio Society Standard Edition!! Less than a 1/10 of what they're asking for Beowulf.

>100 What_What: This was exactly my point. My caution was that when people use the cart system to say “wow its been a huge success they’ve sold 200 already” or “wow they’ve sold 500 already i better buy my copy now before it sells out” in the past people have said exactly the same thing & as has happened here also stock levels have later jumped up & invalidated those statements.

The cart system is not always an accurate way of gauging sales or remaining stock as they often do not make all stock live at the point of release so my point was that when, within the first hour of release, you say ‘clearly it’s been priced correctly - over 200 copies have already sold.’ - over 200 copies had not already been sold. As assemblyman mentioned above, almost 24 hours after release 111 copies have actually so far sold)

>101 Levin40: But at least Folio has made millions of pounds in profits over these past two years!

Ive turned my head to LEC. For years l never thought much of them but after buying a few theyre so underpriced and stunning in every way. Just bought the 1989 version of Oedipus for $100 and if it were produced by Folio today theyd chage well over $1000.

>101 Levin40: Thanks for pointing me towards Nomad - ‘The Hill’ looks great for £60 !

This release impelled me to look over the various LE offerings on the site, and I've come to realise that very few of them are anything special (Aurora Australis, The Divine Comedy, Studies from Nature). The majority just seem like they have a slight upgrade in materials and throw in a box and a print, thereby jacking up the price fourfold or so. I can see why so many members here are indifferent the announcements of new LE's now. Particularly in cases like this, when the LE appears for all intents to be inferior to their own SE.

>104 antinous_in_london: It's splendid, and one of the best fine press bargains to come along lately. I'm a fan of Hilary Paynter and would have paid far more for this than I did.

>102 antinous_in_london: You’re right - only half as many copies have sold as I initially thought. I’d say moving that many copies in one day - over 100 - is still a success. And as more photos show up, it might tip others over the edge to purchase as well. But to your main point - it’s not an accurate way of knowing how many are in stock unless you check the stock the moment it became available to see how many copies were initially available.

>105 Shadekeep: The first two sold out pretty quickly didn’t they? And the Divine Comedy routinely sells on the secondary market for $2,000, about double what it sold at retail. So clearly both books were/are loved and enough people saw the value there.

>103 Joshbooks1: lol. It’s rich, pardon the pun, that a physician begrudges a company for making a profit in 2 of its last 11 years in business. You really would rather have nobody enjoy the Folio Society if you can’t enjoy it can you?

>105 Shadekeep: I just purchased, thanks for the enablement ! With decent shipping too - they didn’t charge me £25 for shipping unlike certain other purveyors of limited editions (cough)

>106 What_What: A lot of it is the price to value ratio - if I remember correctly the Hill House LE sold out in under 1 hour. Im not sure if that means it was a roaring success or that they priced it too low & they should have charged more (?)

>104 antinous_in_london: You're welcome. I don't think you'll regret your purchase.

>106 What_What: Watching you and Josh bicker is entertainment in itself :-) But with respect, in your defense of Folio I think you're rather missing the point. The issue at stake is not that Folio shouldn't have made a healthy profit, it's about how they made that profit. To put it bluntly, did they make it by 'selling-out'? To give a simple analogy (not an exact one) it seems to me that some believe that Folio has become rather like a number of major Hollywood Studios in the past decade. Mired in sequels, prequels, reboots and tie-ins, with an army of executives and lawyers advising them to 'play it safe, don't take risks, play it safe'. Sure, many of the movies do well under this strategy, vast audiences exist and there are fortunes to be made, but I don't think many would accuse their products of being particularly creative, original, artistic or risky. But the analogy falls apart in one aspect: at least with major Hollywood blockbusters you can generally see where the money was spent ;-)

>107 antinous_in_london: Free shipping would be nice, but it looks like 21 GBP to ship to USA....

Re: Beowulf, I'm sure the build quality is better, but I definitely prefer the aesthetic of the previous SE.

Re: Folio, I think their current situation is somewhat more balanced, where they are clearly using mainstream authors and limited editions to subsidize the rest of their output. But they are still publishing a healthy line of diverse books (i.e. Old Patagonian Express, Innocents Abroad, Stalin, Order of Time, I Capture the Castle, Monkey, Operation Mincemeat, Interpreter of Maladies and some obscure sci-fi novels) that aren't the types of things one would pursue for high profit.

>103 Joshbooks1: Not to mention the LEC Beowulf. Granted, not as nice overall as the new LE and it's not the Heaney translation and it's twice the limitation. But I prefer the Lynd Ward illustrations and there is so much one could do with the close to $850 in savings. I have the LEC and am satisfied. Still, if the FS SE were re-released I would have a decision to make.

>101 Levin40:

I don't think I had come across either Porter or Paynter before (although Porter & Paynter certainly has a nice ring to it) so thank you for pointing me to The Hill. It does sound rather wonderful and I will probably order the standard version; at that price, it is a bargain.

But would the full-leather, solander-boxed version not be a fairer comparison to Beowulf? Granted it's a much, much more limited run (only 26 copies) and, as you say, letterpress and woodblock printing, but it's also only 36pp versus 304. One could certainly argue for quality over quantity but it's £1,095 which is much more than Folio's Beowulf.

There's a combination of objective and subjective factors which makes it hard to judge things like this so, ultimately, I think you pays your money, you takes you choice, don't you?

>101 Levin40: While overall I agree with your sentiments and think the LE Beowulf is a poor value, I don't think its fair to compare a cloth bound 36 page book to a full leather bound 300 page book.

Edit: Just noticed Cat_of_Ulthar posted a very similar opinion, sorry for the duplication.

>98 BooksFriendsNotFood: I completely agree with you regarding Folio's recent trend of two-page spread illustrations. I'd far rather have twenty single page illustrations than ten double-spread illustrations in any book - or even just ten single page illustrations for that matter - because with single page illustrations you have more time as you're actually reading to appreciate the artwork, as the illustrations directly abut the text as you indicate. With double-spread illustrations, quite isolated from the text, you pass over them more quickly to continue reading, unless you consciously pause your reading to dwell on the artwork.

I'm a fan of Beowulf but I'm not remotely tempted by this very overpriced LE.

>113 Cat_of_Ulthar: >114 ExLibrisDavid: To a certain extent you're right - that's why I said 'I'm not saying it's comparable to Beowulf in all aspects'. However, while I'm not an industry insider, I don't think page count has a huge impact on cost. That's why, for example, Folio are selling The Waste Land (84 pages) for $1500, and why a 600 page trade hardback generally costs more or less the same as a 300 page one. Certainly it's not much of a factor for offset printed books like Beowulf. Also, regarding Nomad's lettered version of The Hill, costs there are driven almost entirely by the need to recoup design and binding costs with only 26 copies, as well as of course the exclusivity factor.

Anyway, the broader point is that Folio could be providing far more value for the prices they charge. As an earlier poster said, they seem to 'lack ambition'.

>116 Levin40: As an earlier poster said, they seem to 'lack ambition'.

Ambition of a corporate or institutional nature is inexorably driven by strong leadership with hands-on experience, and who in turn will hire individuals of a similar disposition. Unfortunately, such leadership cannot be inherited.

>117 mr.philistine: Re their ‘lack of ambition’ as i put it - There is no reason why FS cannot produce letterpress volumes if they choose to (as they did with their last Shakespeare editions), or hand-marbled end papers, or higher quality papers - they just seem to lack the desire or ambition (or the leadership that feels that is of importance) to do so. Personally i would be happier if they spent their budget on raising the quality of the actual book itself rather than the ‘frame-able print’ that seems to be an essential in every new LE or quirky add-ons like ‘free’ towels.

>116 Levin40: I'm glad you mentioned The Hill, which is indeed wonderful and superb value.

Even if we don't think it's comparable to Beowulf, it's 10% (!) of the price. So a good comparison might be to take the Beowulf budget and see what you could buy from the back catalogue of the likes of Nomad Letterpress, Whittington Press, Golden Cockerel Press, or similar. You could get three or four exquisite examples of the best British private press publishing of the last century, all letterpress, and some half leather. For example, for the price of Beowulf, I bought The Hill plus Venice special edition plus Britten's Aldeburgh. Three truly amazing works of art.

Or, if you preferred to put all your eggs into one basket, you could buy a single volume that represents a high watermark of private press. Something like Glory of Life or Mabinogion from Golden Cockerel, or the sublime book of Posters Printed at Whittington, or the deluxe version of Ebble Valley that made several users' top 10 list over in the fine press forum. Each would come into reach, and those are some really spectacular books!

I know these books aren't everyone's cup of tea. But the point is that if you are seriously into the art of the fine book then there is some serious competition at these price points!

>119 ubiquitousuk: Don't let our secrets out. 600£+ offset printed books are a great value and should be bought aggresively!!! If there's a tipped-in letterpress limitation page don't hesitate to pay additional 200£. I am absolutely OK with people buying these books.

>119 ubiquitousuk: Or you could buy my entire Beowulf collection for less than half the Folio Society's USA asking price of $985 (including shipping but not sales tax):

Folio Society (2010) Seanus Heaney SE - $131
Pynson Printers for Random House (1932) illustrated by Rockwell Kent - $164
Limited Editions Club (1952) illustrated by Lynd Ward - $60
Folio Society (1998) British Myths & Legends - $70
Houghton Mifflin Harcourt (2014) translated by JRR Tolkien trade hardback - $20

which totals $445

>115 cronshaw: I feel you! I appreciate two-page illustrations if they're supplemented by many single-page illustrations or illustrations integrated with the text (for example, FS's Anansi Boys was a glorious mesh of on-page, single-page, and two-page illustrations which made for a brilliant reading experience), but as you've mentioned, having mainly two-page illustrations means that you have to more or less appreciate the art "apart" from the reading itself. You used the word 'isolated' and that explains it exactly.

>115 cronshaw: Can you concentrate on the text and the artwork at the same time (whether it be in-page, single-page, two-page, or a fabulous fold-out a la Everest)? Personally, I find I drift back-and-forth between the two.

Are you actually suggesting, unconsciously, that Folio should stop illustrating books at all because it distracts from the purity of the text?

Got my Beowulf today. Big. Heavy. The solander/clamshell feels very solid. (How LoTR should have been.) I do like the Folio logo on the back of it.

The book itself is not quite so Vogon Yellow as it might have looked online. I'm slightly disappointed about that, but that's probably just me (I loved Something Wicked). It doesn't smell quite as wonderful as the Dante set (what does?).

Reminds me of the Letterpress Shakespeare in some ways. Not letterpress, obviously, but lovely paper, large font, lots of white space, easy to read and lose yourself in the text (unless you get distracted by the original text on the other page).

The print? Up to you. Frame it, don't frame it, pull it out once in a while to enjoy it. Whatever you do with it, it's rather nice :-)

No production issues I can see. A good, solid, beautiful book.

>124 Cat_of_Ulthar: Thank you for this review. I'm happy to hear that this is a sound production and I'm hoping that will impact the secondary prices of the SE soon!

>123 Cat_of_Ulthar: (a) yes, (b) no

>115 cronshaw: My thoughts about the Beowulf LE echo yours about the Summer Sale and Boris Johnson!

>125 L.Bloom: You're welcome. As I have said above, I don't own the SE so can't compare them directly. I can say that I have no grumbles about this particular Folio production. The yellow thing is not really a grumble, just that it looks brighter on a computer screen than in the actual mustardy leather but we've seen that before. Plus it's a rather dull day here in the Highlands so the lighting may be a factor.

I did have a few grumbles about the Hitchhiker LE because I really, really wanted that one to be perfect but, hey, sometimes life gives you a bit of grit in its oyster.

>126 cronshaw: '(a) yes'

You've got me intrigued now. Would your degree of concentration be the same whether or not the illustration is actually directly related to the text on the adjacent page? Sometimes the illustrations are out of synch in terms of the narrative or they are of an abstract nature not directly representing the story. Research suggests that multitasking reduces our performance* (if not our enjoyment) and, going from memory here, I think different bits of the brain are involved in image processing versus text processing which could affect how we absorb and integrate the two streams of information. A rabbit hole awaits :-)

*https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0220150

'(b) no'

Me too.

Received my copy - I am quite impressed with it and agree with >124 Cat_of_Ulthar: in that review. I don’t think the videos/pictures do it justice. I do think it’s a worthy Folio LE - I rather like the illustrations which seem fitting for the story and the book itself is large, well made and quite luxurious. I am quite happy to have purchased it.

>130 vmb443: Interesting that you’re ‘quite impressed’, ‘quite happy’ & that it’s ‘quite luxurious’ & you ‘rather like’ the illustrations. For £625 I’d want to LOVE it !

It’s now 6 days since the release & the ‘over half sold’ hasn’t appeared yet so I’m guessing it slowed down after the initial rush on day one, when around 100 sold, so there’s no rush for me to make a decision on it yet.

>131 antinous_in_london: I have been watching some of the more affordable secondary market SE Beowulf's. They have been snatched up rather becoming cheaper as more enter the market as people replace them with this LE. Sigh.

>86 Shadekeep: Yup! and the FS never did explain satisfactorily why they charge other countries more. They are charging those in the USA about 16% more - in previous instances it was up to 40% more
https://www.librarything.com/topic/343675

>133 astropi: I had emailed them about this back in 2022 and this is the response I got.

"I was sorry to read that you were unhappy with the pricing of Folio books in USA. It has never been our intention to treat our international customers unfairly. Not untypically for an exporter, Folio has to set its prices in such a way as to cover the higher costs associated with trading internationally: the losses made on taxes, shipping, handling and insuring goods; the higher postage on marketing materials and sadly not on the current exchange rate.

I do apologize for any disappointment that this causes."

>134 BooksFriendsNotFood: An explanation that might hold water if the shipping weren't also exorbitant. I find it hard to believe that supporting international sales is this costly for them, even after the UK exiting the EU. Certainly other places there don't seem to have the same degree of markup.

Good YouTube review of the LE posted today: https://youtu.be/RXmFxKnPnAw

If I didn’t already have the SE, and had more available cash, I’d be tempted.

>134 BooksFriendsNotFood: Folio has to set its prices in such a way as to cover the higher costs associated with trading internationally: the losses made on taxes, shipping, handling and insuring goods

That is disingenuous at best. First, what does "losses made on taxes" even mean? Companies pay taxes and so do people. When I purchase a book taxes are always included in the price, unless it's a used book in which case taxes are added as the case with ebay, abe, etc. I'm still paying shipping, and as MANY others have said, the FS should price the books fairly across all countries - that's what basically every other company does including Easton Press, Lyra's Press, Foolscap, Suntup, etc. Folio is the ONLY company I know of that instead of just converting currency, actually charges a premium and then they try and make it look like they're doing us a favor...

>137 astropi: I’m pretty sure Apple does this - their UK prices aren’t straight up conversions of the USD price.

>139 What_What: Apple products are generally cheaper in the US, yes, though you must take into account that quoted US prices don't include sales tax (as far as I'm aware) whereas quoted UK prices always include VAT. But the main difference is that, if one thinks the Apple price difference is too egregious, there's presumably nothing to stop one purchasing a phone or laptop from a US store and having it shipped over. In the case of the Folio Society, there is only a single place one can buy their products and they refuse to let foreign customers pay in sterling at that place. It's honestly hard to think of another company that does this. In every other case I can think of, if there's any restriction on the currency which must be used, it's that buyers must pay in the currency of the country where the store is based. Folio do the opposite, at least for US/CAN/AUS customers.

>140 Levin40: Apple prices are a lot cheaper and generally a 1:1 $:£ conversion, and many many states don’t have sales tax either.

Apple also won’t let you ship their products to other countries, so you can’t go on Amazon and just direct it to the UK. Most US companies mark items for the international market and so are a lot cheaper in the US.

Folio also heavily subsidises shipping so whilst it is expensive, it’s actually a good deal. So whilst Thornwillow might charge me the same price as US customers, they overcharge me on shipping (rather than subsidising it) and so shipping is usually more expensive than the book…..

>137 astropi: while I sympathise with you paying higher prices, this just comes across as a whine.

I live in Britain and often buy vinyl records from US companies. The prices are much higher than for US domestic buyers, and shipping is huge. Overall I’d pay at least twice as much as an American for the same product. That’s the cost of being a customer in a different country.

While Folio’s explanation is pseudo finance jargon for PR purposes, there is nothing unusual about their approach.

>137 astropi: There is sympathy in that Americans cannot choose to pay in British pounds, but I think that you are being unfair. If I purchase any book from Centipede Press (say for $60), the only shipping option to the UK is $80. However if an American purchases Carlo Rovelli's The Order of Time from the FS at $90 you have a choice of paying as little as $18 for shipping in the US - which is incredibly reasonable.

This year saw a seminal work released by the FS and not available to those in the home market, just the US and Canada.

>141 Juniper_tree: To make matters worse, per-capita GDP at purchasing power parity (i.e., adjusted for differences in cost of living) is

UK: $56,400
US: $80,000.

So, roughly speaking, a book that costs a Briton $56 and an American $80 would amount to the same 0.1% of the average annual purchasing power of each.

But an iPhone that costs the American $999 would be 1.25% of his annual purchasing power, whereas a Briton paying £1099(=$1582 at the PPP exchange rate) is spending 2.8% of his annual purchasing power on exactly the same product. Ouch!

>144 ubiquitousuk: So FS must sell the books for the equivalent of a couple dollars in Sierra Leone or Madagascar, yes? Or does the GDP calculus only work in the direction of higher overseas prices?

The loss rate for overseas shipments is actually higher than domestic shipments. Not so much that it's not worth it, but a half percentage point or a whole point adds up. Add in the replacement shipping costs when something goes wrong and it's fairly common to charge more for overseas shipments since customers are generally unwilling to bear the risk of lost shipments.

>142 Uppernorwood: So, when you purchase a record from a US company, do they charge you anywhere from 15-45% more for the same vinyl? That's what I want to know. Shipping should have nothing to do with the price of the good. I would be perfectly content to pay the same cost as patrons in the UK and then pay a far higher shipping cost. As long as it was clear and transparent what I was paying for I would be happy. Every company I've purchased from that resides in the UK has always been clear about what you're paying and none of them, apart from the FS, charge international customers more for the same basic good.

>147 astropi:
"Every company I've purchased from that resides in the UK has always been clear about what you're paying and none of them, apart from the FS, charge international customers more for the same basic good."
Used to be true, but the rot is beginning to spread. Persephone Books, which used to charge North Americans UK prices plus a stated shipping fee, now charge for their paperbacks !4 pounds in the UK, and 27 pounds in NA, inclusive of standard postage. For approximately half of their books which weigh more than 500g there is a further surcharge of 10 pounds. The increase is blamed on increased postal charges. To put that into perspective, Slightly Foxed Editions send their LE hardbacks to NA subscribers at a charge of 2 pounds extra for postage. Both companies send in simple unpadded cardboard containers which arrive through the regular mail.

>149 AlexBookshelfFrog:
Luck of the draw, I expect. I've had 78 magazines and 65 hardbacks from them unscathed, and 25 paperbacks from Persephone. Perhaps Canada Post have gentler, kinder deliverymen. On the other hand I just took delivery through UPS of a 2-vol limited edition with rubbed edges caused by sloppy packaging by the highly respectable bookseller. Paying an eye-watering delivery premium doesn't guarantee better service.

>151 Jayked: I live in Canada too and every time I receive a package from Slightly Foxed, I worry that it’s going to contain a damaged book, but like you, books always arrive in perfect condition despite flimsy packaging!

I don't think the packaging of Slightly Foxed books is really flimsy. Usually the edition is wrapped in a corrugated card sleeve and then in the stiff cardboard envelope. Since the books are light, the only potential problem would be rain, but Royal Mail at least deliver them very well.

>148 Jayked: I'm beginning to wonder if there are laws in the USA which prevent a company from charging more to international customers? And perhaps there is no such law in the UK? Or perhaps most companies just realize it's terrible business to charge customers more simply based upon location. At any rate, for better or worse, I've never experienced anything like that apart from the FS. As for charging 27 pounds for a 4 pound book... ridiculous, that's a 575% mark-up!

Charging a higher price for the books is really bad business, in my opinion. When FS did that with the rest of Europe, too, I started buying most of their books second hand instead of directly from them because I had a serious problem with this. Charge me a realistic shipping fee, absolutely, but not a higher price for the item itself. And there I really expect the company to do their homework and not pick the most expensive (and often least efficient option), which is unfortunately quite normal for a lot of US publishers. Strangely enough, a lot of US book clubs have excellent international shipping options, faster, cheaper, tax already taken care of, than Suntup, Subterranean Press etc., who just seem to stick with USPS despite their high prices and often poor service. It is doable, others can.

>155 astropi: iPhone 14 Pro US price $999 direct from Apple, UK price direct from Apple £1099(=$1411). It is a common experience for Europeans to pay more for durable consumer goods than their American counterparts. Companies go to great lengths to prevent grey market imports to enforce this regional pricing.

Far from bad business practice, it makes complete business sense to tailor your offer to local market conditions and the practice is widespread. Of course, it's no fun to be on the receiving end of higher prices as a consumer, but it is well wide of the mark to paint this as some sort of unusually nefarious behaviour on Folio's part.

And at least Americans can by from the FS. Easton Press to the UK? Not so much.

>155 astropi:
A good many UK publishers and booksellers these days use one of several services to pick up, track and deliver their wares abroad, usually culminating in one of the pricier delivery services. I imagine that's what Persephone does now-- a very small publisher with a single store in Bath and few employees. Slightly Foxed gave up their store, but have several motivated employees, a decent list of books by other publishers, and a bookfinder who will search for out-of-print titles for you. Apparently they can also find their way to the Post Office to secure an economical rate.

>157 ubiquitousuk: The higher iPhone prices are not due to apple.



https://9to5mac.com/2022/09/09/iphone-14-prices-in-uk/

But while the price of the iPhone 14 and other Apple products is indeed eye-watering in many countries, that isn’t because Apple is trying to make more money …

The UK and EU countries also have sales tax, of course, in the form of VAT.

But the big difference here is that there is that VAT is included in the price shown. In most countries, consumers** expect to pay the price displayed. Consumers would not be impressed with Apple if they got to checkout and the company then added on an extra 20%.

We saw the example earlier of Turkey, where the same base iPhone 14 costs the equivalent of $1,700, or more than double the US price. But, again, most of the difference is tax. Turkey applies technology taxes of around 90% on imported consumer electronics goods.

On the other hand, the FS is directly charging international customers more for the exact same item. So yes, I feel "nefarious" is a good adjective to describe the FS's price gouging.

Personally, I don’t much care what the reason for the disparity is, whether price gouging or taxes or shipping or something else. The important fact is that it is considerable to the point that I buy just one or two a year now that I really, really want. Easton Press and Library of America are getting most of my book money.

>159 Jayked: I would love to order a batch from Persephone to the US but their online price bakes the shipping into each title, making it quite costly. I would ask them about combining shipment except they already mention on the website that they have to charge what they charge. It's one of those things where it pays to be local, but then there are cases of that in every kind of business.

Aside from FS's 21st century version of the Stamp Act imposed on its former colonies, other issues such as the matters of quality and getting enough bang for the buck, have led me consider other venues to send my book money to. I recently made my first Sunup purchase and took another look at what Easton Press had to offer, and bought EP's Limited Edition of Don Quixote.

For $525, with free shipping (FedEx 2 day), I got a leather bound classic, nearly 1,000 pages, a well regarded recent translation, an illustrated cloth covered slipcase, 13 color illustrations with tissue guard (including a nice two page foldout of the iconic windmill scene), and over 120 chapter heading drawings, fittingly done by a Spanish artist, with his signature on the limitation page.

I will still consider FS's releases, but they are no longer the only game in town for me. (Beowulf is not tempting enough, but I'll probably swallow my pride and cough up the dollars it will take to get their forthcoming Shakespeare- I can't imagine FS doing a less than stellar job with the Bard.)

>163 amp123:
The trouble with Easton Press (other than the bland all-the-same bindings) is that it is almost impossible to buy from them outside North America. I own about a dozen bought on the secondary market, and they have some very nice DLEs, but FS books still look better.

>160 astropi: great, except that if you add the UK VAT onto the US price you still find that the iPhone is over $200 more expensive in the UK than the US.

And if you don't like the Apple example,

"Car makers frequently arbitrage markets, setting the price according to local market conditions so the same vehicle will have different real prices in different territories." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_import_vehicle

Advanced textbooks are generally much cheaper in the UK than the US: https://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/21/us/students-find-100-textbooks-cost-50-purcha...

Digital video game purchases are subject to regional pricing "Valve notes that it makes price suggestions based on more than just foreign exchange rates: 'Our process … goes deeper into the nuts and bolts of what players pay for the goods and services in their lives.' The company adjusts purchasing-power parity and consumer price indexes in different countries and regions. This helps compare prices and costs more broadly, taking into account multiple economic factors. If it weren’t for regional prices, many players from certain regions wouldn’t be able to afford to buy games." https://gameworldobserver.com/2022/10/20/steam-regional-pricing-recommendations-...

Honestly, it's weird if a company doesn't charge different prices in different regions, given that people in those different regions have vastly different demand conditions and econ 101 tells us that demand is a primary input in optimal pricing.

>162 Shadekeep:

It might be worth looking into a forwarding service in such an extreme case.

Well, I'm in the Folio-advantaged UK, but I've practically stopped buying because few among their recent releases appeal to me in the slightest and those that do almost always cost markedly more than I'd be disposed to pay. My attitude remains that companies are rightly free to ask whatever prices they care to ask in the various territories to which they sell, and prospective customers free to decide whether the offer that's made to them is worth their while. Tartarus, for example, set the price in sterling for their limited-edition hardbacks, and it includes free shipping to anywhere in the world: which is fine by me, and I buy their books when the offer is sufficiently appealing and don't when it isn't, without bothering to fret about how much of my cash goes to subsidising purchasers in California or Tierra del Fuego.

>166 SF-72: I've thought about it, but not used one previously. I don't know if the order would be large enough to make that economical, but it's nice that at least it's an option.

>168 Shadekeep:

It can be really helpful. It's possible to get an approximate idea of how much forwarding costs by inputting the approximate size and weight. It isn't always more economical, but quite often it is. At the price differences mentioned here, I would assume it would be worth it. I've been using one for several years now and wouldn't want to do without them.

Beowulf brochure is now up on the FSD wiki here.

>165 ubiquitousuk: great, except that if you add the UK VAT onto the US price you still find that the iPhone is over $200 more expensive in the UK than the US.

Currency differentiation almost always accounts for such small differences. 1 pound sterling is 1.29 US dollars. Also, I think it's rather asinine to try and compare books to cars and high-end electronics. Furthermore, the FS is not subject to VAT in the USA (printed matter in the USA is duty free) and has no reason to charge it's customers more. As amp123 noted, the FS is losing business because many people, certainly me included, feel we are not getting "enough bang for the buck" especially when we're charged 15-45% more for the exact same item. If the FS won't get it right, other companies will.

>171 astropi: I believe that folio's sales in north America have been increasing. If they see a change in that trend I'm sure they'd look closely at pricing, but it doesn't seem as though they've gone too far yet. If people in North America are willing (and able) to pay more than people in the UK, then their pricing doesn't present a business issue (i.e. losing some custom from people like yourself I assume is being more than offset by other people buying at the higher prices).

>172 EdmundRodriguez: I do actually feel like the differences have gone down. It seems like right now NA residents pay about 15% more than UK residents, which is far better than 40%+ which I had seen earlier. More than anything, I just wish the FS was transparent in their pricing, and they're not.

>4 Shadekeep: I always wondered who the market is for that sort of thing. At those prices you can practically get people to handcraft fine editions that are a lot nicer than what FF does.

>174 snottlebocket: I always wondered who the market is for that sort of thing.

Well, it's not me, in this particular case. Though I'd happily drop $1K for a proper fine press edition of the Heaney Beowulf.

These books are crazy expensive and, if it weren't for the marketing efforts put into the presentation, I'd probably look at this book (and other recent LEs) with some difficulty in distinguishing it from a $60 standard edition. I'm sure that there are improvements in quality but they aren't obvious to me at a glance.

Between this trend and the preferential pricing against those in the US, I've really fallen out of love with FS.

It would be a different thing entirely if they were still producing facsimiles of old medieval texts -- liber bestiarum, the luttrell psalter, and the like -- with golden accents and marginalia. Those were impressive collector items and I still search for those I don't yet have on eBay. But on the contrary the new releases feel like they're asking me if I'm a sucker.