Group read: The Semi-Detached House by Emily Eden
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2lyzard
Welcome!
Please note that this thread is for the discussion of Emily Eden's 1859 novel, The Semi-Attached House, and eventually for comparisons between this work and its sister-work, The Semi-Attached Couple.
For background information about these novels and their author, and for general information about these group reads, please access this thread:
The Semi-Attached Couple
Please note that this thread is for the discussion of Emily Eden's 1859 novel, The Semi-Attached House, and eventually for comparisons between this work and its sister-work, The Semi-Attached Couple.
For background information about these novels and their author, and for general information about these group reads, please access this thread:
The Semi-Attached Couple
3europhile
To me this was much more successful as a story than The Semi-Attached Couple. The humour was still there (if anything it was funnier - I particularly liked the part about the 'outrigger'), as were the characters of the protagonists, both the more engaging ones at the forefront of the story such as Mrs Hopkinson and her daughters and the more disreputable ones in the background such as the Baron and his wife. The final outcome was similar in that all the loose ends were tied together, but this had been foreshadowed at various points throughout the story and the relationships were allowed to develop more naturally. Well worth reading.
4souloftherose
Just to note that I started reading this yesterday - not very far along yet.
5lauralkeet
I started reading about a week ago, immediately after finishing The Semi Attached Couple. But I was on holiday, and it didn't really fit my mood so I set it aside. Then I had two library kindle loans pop up so they jumped to the top of my reading queue. I've finished one of those, and am home from my holiday, so I hope to be back to Emily Eden soonish.
6souloftherose
A few thoughts as I'm nearly half way through.
This seems different in style to the SAC. Although SAC was funny there seemed to be a more serious point to it around the dangers of short courtships/engagements. SDA seems more frivolous and the characters don't seem to have as much depth as those in SAC.
I've just finished Chapter X and the background story to the Baron and Baroness and Miss Monteneros has an almost gothic feel. And isn't the Baroness awful? I can't decide who I dislike more - the Baroness of Lady Portmore from SAC.
This seems different in style to the SAC. Although SAC was funny there seemed to be a more serious point to it around the dangers of short courtships/engagements. SDA seems more frivolous and the characters don't seem to have as much depth as those in SAC.
I've just finished Chapter X and the background story to the Baron and Baroness and Miss Monteneros has an almost gothic feel. And isn't the Baroness awful? I can't decide who I dislike more - the Baroness of Lady Portmore from SAC.
7CDVicarage
I've finished and, although I enjoyed the story, it did seem 'light'. I read the Xist Classics kindle edition and - shock horror - the ending was missing! Fortunately I found another edition which did include the final telegram but, even without it, I had a pretty clear idea of how things turned out.
8souloftherose
Also finished and enjoyed this although I think on balance I preferred The Semi-Attached Couple which seemed to have a bit more depth. But happy to have read both.
9lyzard
Sorry, all! - I have been very neglectful of this thread. I've had limited time recently and felt compelled to use it to get my 2017 reviews done before we roll over into February. :)
(And I'd've been here a lot earlier today except that I've just had a Windows update that took about three hours: I shudder to think how much data it used up.)
Thank you to those who checked in and posted their thoughts!
(And I'd've been here a lot earlier today except that I've just had a Windows update that took about three hours: I shudder to think how much data it used up.)
Thank you to those who checked in and posted their thoughts!
10lyzard
My feeling is that their titles and their omnibusing (is that a word) make for a connection between The Semi-Attached Couple and The Semi-Detached House that doesn't actually exist.
Despite its overtly comic aspects, The Semi-Attached Couple is a novel with a serious point. Conversely, The Semi-Detached House seems to intend nothing much more than a well-observed and humorous sketch of society as it then existed.
I would suggest, though, that the value of The Semi-Detached House is precisely that: as with many of the novels of Anthony Trollope, and as opposed to those of Dickens in particular, where everything is skewed through his peculiar perspective, you get the feeling here that you are getting a glimpse of Victorian society that is fairly close to reality---if confined to a certain section of that society.
Two things about this novel really struck me: first, that it depicts the emergence of "the suburbs", a shift away from life in the city that was yet not really "country"; and second (probably an unavoidable component of that move), not a breakdown of the class structure, but what we might call "increased permeability". There were more opportunities for people of different classes to meet and mingle. In Eden's generous-hearted world, nice people of whatever background would then naturally seek each other out and become friends.
I think the comedy of the opening chapters, where Blanche expresses her horror at being brought into contact with the common Hopkinsons, and Mrs Hopkinson is horrified in turn at the thought of living next door to a "scarlet woman" (whether kept mistress or adulterous or separated wife), is an exaggerated rendering of how thoroughly the different classes did misunderstand each other. The novel itself is about their mutual journey to understanding and liking (and we should not overlook the fact that it Mrs Hopkinson who first overcomes her prejudice, to perform an act of kindness even while she thinks of Blanche as a sinning woman).
Despite its overtly comic aspects, The Semi-Attached Couple is a novel with a serious point. Conversely, The Semi-Detached House seems to intend nothing much more than a well-observed and humorous sketch of society as it then existed.
I would suggest, though, that the value of The Semi-Detached House is precisely that: as with many of the novels of Anthony Trollope, and as opposed to those of Dickens in particular, where everything is skewed through his peculiar perspective, you get the feeling here that you are getting a glimpse of Victorian society that is fairly close to reality---if confined to a certain section of that society.
Two things about this novel really struck me: first, that it depicts the emergence of "the suburbs", a shift away from life in the city that was yet not really "country"; and second (probably an unavoidable component of that move), not a breakdown of the class structure, but what we might call "increased permeability". There were more opportunities for people of different classes to meet and mingle. In Eden's generous-hearted world, nice people of whatever background would then naturally seek each other out and become friends.
I think the comedy of the opening chapters, where Blanche expresses her horror at being brought into contact with the common Hopkinsons, and Mrs Hopkinson is horrified in turn at the thought of living next door to a "scarlet woman" (whether kept mistress or adulterous or separated wife), is an exaggerated rendering of how thoroughly the different classes did misunderstand each other. The novel itself is about their mutual journey to understanding and liking (and we should not overlook the fact that it Mrs Hopkinson who first overcomes her prejudice, to perform an act of kindness even while she thinks of Blanche as a sinning woman).
11lyzard
Of course, out in the 'burbs you might meet awful people like the Sampsons, too...
One potentially contentious aspect of The Semi-Detached House is that the Sampsons are Jewish. However, I don't think that we're supposed to read this as the "cause" of their awfulness. Their social-climbing and manoeuvring is the point on its own: clearly Eden is again sketching something that did go on. I would suggest that the Sampsons being Jewish is chiefly and simply because a lot of the people at the time who did achieve abrupt social elevation, as a result of the shifting operation of the business and trade world, were Jewish.
In this respect, it is important to recognise that Rachel, who clearly has her author's support and sympathy, must also be Jewish.
One potentially contentious aspect of The Semi-Detached House is that the Sampsons are Jewish. However, I don't think that we're supposed to read this as the "cause" of their awfulness. Their social-climbing and manoeuvring is the point on its own: clearly Eden is again sketching something that did go on. I would suggest that the Sampsons being Jewish is chiefly and simply because a lot of the people at the time who did achieve abrupt social elevation, as a result of the shifting operation of the business and trade world, were Jewish.
In this respect, it is important to recognise that Rachel, who clearly has her author's support and sympathy, must also be Jewish.
12lyzard
>6 souloftherose:
I can't decide who I dislike more - the Baroness or Lady Portmere
Don't make me choose! :D
I can't decide who I dislike more - the Baroness or Lady Portmere
Don't make me choose! :D
13lyzard
Noting this in Chapter VIII:
The rest of his visit was passed in petting and admiring his daughter, and, having placed in her hand a gorgeous-looking porte-monnaie, he ventured to say, "that though it was hardly decorous he should allude to certain circumstances, yet he was aware that his good little Blanche must be making preparations for an expected happy event, and that he had brought his contribution to what he believed was called a layette." But this last word was too much for his delicacy, and he departed covered with confusion...
I've never succeeded in wrapping my head around the Victorian convention that pregnancy was not to be referred to: how on earth did they manage to churn out such large families while pretending it wasn't happening??
I suspect that Eden thought it was silly too: thus what we know of Blanche's pregnancy and the birth of the baby comes from the perspective of forthright and sensible (and lower-class) Mrs Hopkinson, who treats it all as a matter of course.
The rest of his visit was passed in petting and admiring his daughter, and, having placed in her hand a gorgeous-looking porte-monnaie, he ventured to say, "that though it was hardly decorous he should allude to certain circumstances, yet he was aware that his good little Blanche must be making preparations for an expected happy event, and that he had brought his contribution to what he believed was called a layette." But this last word was too much for his delicacy, and he departed covered with confusion...
I've never succeeded in wrapping my head around the Victorian convention that pregnancy was not to be referred to: how on earth did they manage to churn out such large families while pretending it wasn't happening??
I suspect that Eden thought it was silly too: thus what we know of Blanche's pregnancy and the birth of the baby comes from the perspective of forthright and sensible (and lower-class) Mrs Hopkinson, who treats it all as a matter of course.
14souloftherose
>10 lyzard: Thanks Liz - it's helpful to think about this novel showing life in the suburbs and increased socialising between different classes.
>11 lyzard: I'm not sure how but I seem to have totally missed the fact that the Sampsons were Jewish but looking back it is mentioned the first time they were introduced (and the son being called Moses should also have been a giveaway)!
>13 lyzard: I also thought it was unusual to hear so much about the pregnancy in this story - particularly about giving birth. I know the actual birth wasn't described but the very fact we knew it was happening and that it was difficult in some way struck me as very unusual.
>11 lyzard: I'm not sure how but I seem to have totally missed the fact that the Sampsons were Jewish but looking back it is mentioned the first time they were introduced (and the son being called Moses should also have been a giveaway)!
>13 lyzard: I also thought it was unusual to hear so much about the pregnancy in this story - particularly about giving birth. I know the actual birth wasn't described but the very fact we knew it was happening and that it was difficult in some way struck me as very unusual.
15lyzard
>14 souloftherose:
And the fact that you did overlook it speaks to how that really wasn't the point. We've seen enough of how these things were handled in other books, when it was, to recognise the difference here.
It is very unusual, given that we're still in the era dominated by the circulating libraries---always on the lookout for, as Mr Podsnap would put it, anything which might bring a blush to the cheek of the Young Person!
And the fact that you did overlook it speaks to how that really wasn't the point. We've seen enough of how these things were handled in other books, when it was, to recognise the difference here.
It is very unusual, given that we're still in the era dominated by the circulating libraries---always on the lookout for, as Mr Podsnap would put it, anything which might bring a blush to the cheek of the Young Person!
16lyzard
Many years ago we had a sporting commentator here who would never say "fight", but would always substitute "fracas" or "melee". Why? Who knows? - but we started doing it too, as a joke. One day I was at a football match with my family and there was a fight: I turned to my father and observed in a stupid voice, "Oh, dear! - it's a fracas!"
Only to have someone nearby turn on me and snap, "It's frack-ass! It's got an 's' on the end!"
After which, of course, "frack-ass" became our preferred pronunciation...
...so I was delighted to discover that this is a joke extending back at least as far as 1859:
Chapter II
"FRACAS IN HIGH LIFE.---It is our melancholy duty to report the separation of a young and noble couple, whose appearance at the alter of Hymen we detailed some months ago. Whether the levity of the lady or the temper of the gentleman has brought about this dénouement we are unable to say. Rumours of all sorts are rife–a foreign court and a villa not one hundred miles from London are the scenes of several piquant anecdotes. Whether the last is tenanted by his Lordship's wife, or his chère amie, we forbear to say."
"Well, ma'am, what do you say to that?" asked Willis, folding his arms, and looking as like John Kemble as was feasible.
"Well, my dear, it is not much worse than paragraphs I have read in the most decent papers---I have seen things like that in the Illustrated. It is odd that the nobility will have 'Fracaws, and chère amies, and picking anecdotes,' but I suppose in our class of life we have the same things, only with English names..."
Only to have someone nearby turn on me and snap, "It's frack-ass! It's got an 's' on the end!"
After which, of course, "frack-ass" became our preferred pronunciation...
...so I was delighted to discover that this is a joke extending back at least as far as 1859:
Chapter II
"FRACAS IN HIGH LIFE.---It is our melancholy duty to report the separation of a young and noble couple, whose appearance at the alter of Hymen we detailed some months ago. Whether the levity of the lady or the temper of the gentleman has brought about this dénouement we are unable to say. Rumours of all sorts are rife–a foreign court and a villa not one hundred miles from London are the scenes of several piquant anecdotes. Whether the last is tenanted by his Lordship's wife, or his chère amie, we forbear to say."
"Well, ma'am, what do you say to that?" asked Willis, folding his arms, and looking as like John Kemble as was feasible.
"Well, my dear, it is not much worse than paragraphs I have read in the most decent papers---I have seen things like that in the Illustrated. It is odd that the nobility will have 'Fracaws, and chère amies, and picking anecdotes,' but I suppose in our class of life we have the same things, only with English names..."
17lauralkeet
>16 lyzard: that's a great story, Liz!
19lyzard
Finally writing up my reviews of these two novels on my thread, I was belatedly reminded that I had meant to draw attention to the character of Charles Willis, which is a very unusual one for the time of writing. I'm wondering whether (as with several other touches in these books), Eden was mocking another Victorian convention, in this case the over-the-top approach to mourning---which among other things dictated exactly what shade of clothing you had to wear, who you had to wear it for, and how long you had to wear it.
Willis's self-indulgent "grief", and the pleasure he takes in spoiling everyone else's fun, are really funny; yet Eden also shows that it has gone too far and become dangerous, in that it begins to negatively impact his poor little boy, until the women rescue him.
But I love how Eden resolves that subplot, with Willis almost unable to face the prospect of being happy, when he does fall in love.
Willis's self-indulgent "grief", and the pleasure he takes in spoiling everyone else's fun, are really funny; yet Eden also shows that it has gone too far and become dangerous, in that it begins to negatively impact his poor little boy, until the women rescue him.
But I love how Eden resolves that subplot, with Willis almost unable to face the prospect of being happy, when he does fall in love.
20lyzard
Anyway---
I'm assuming that everyone is done by now? Does anyone have anything else they would like to add?
I found this an enjoyable and easy read; though to an extent, those very qualities negate discussion. It's always easier to talk when you have something to criticise! :)
I'm assuming that everyone is done by now? Does anyone have anything else they would like to add?
I found this an enjoyable and easy read; though to an extent, those very qualities negate discussion. It's always easier to talk when you have something to criticise! :)
