Don Quixote Limited Edition with Dore Art

Does anyone know if the new limited edition Don Quixote with Dore art is any different from the special EP edition which was printed in 2004 with Dore art?

I have the original and, as far as I've been able to determine, they are identical. The illustrations and the text were beautifully reproduced in 2004, so I have seen no reason to upgrade.

I have owned both, and yes, there is a big difference. The original EP edition (non-DLE) is MUCH smaller. I believe it does include all the Dore illustrations (although I'm not sure). However, being much smaller you obviously can not appreciate the illustrations like you can on the much larger DLE (DLEs are the same size as the original editions). Secondly, the DLE uses far superior paper and leather. Now, don't get me wrong. I actually think that EP's "normal" leather is good. However, the DLEs are usually a step above. The original EP edition uses thin paper, while the DLE is far better. Also, the DLE includes a beautiful slipcase which helps protect the book. Yes, you do pay a premium for the DLE, but I think it's worth it. Also, please take my review with a grain of salt. I'm a huge fan of Dore and I really like most of EPs DLEs, so clearly I'm biased.

>3 astropi:
Are we describing the same edition? My 2004 copy is 9.25 x 12.25, the same size as the DLE described on Easton's website, so the illustrations would be the same size too. My edition is only 778 pages, though, compared to the DLE's 1,008, so there must be difference in the print size, and it wouldn't surprise me if the leather were better. My slipcases get archived in the attic, though.

Do you know the original retail price for the 2004 printing with all Dore engravings? I see one on eBay but as usual it is high.

>5 HugoDumas:
I bought it secondhand several years ago, so I don't know the original price. I think I paid in the $150-200 range for an "as new" copy.

4: You may be right on the size. I haven't had that edition in years. However I stand by my other statements.

On the leather topic, anyone know whether Easton ever uses goatskin? They are usually pretty vague. I assume it's all just calf with an artificial grain.

By the way I just called. They have 125 copies left. I will read my copy from their 100 classics set next to decide if the upgrade is worth it.

8: I've never known them to use goatskin. They do use imported leather from Italy from times, but I assume that's cowhide.

>8 JustinTChan: I've never seen an EP volume originally bound in Goatskin. Most EP regular editions are pig skin while most DLEs are cowhide imported from Italy.

>11 kdweber:
Why is an Italian cow better than an American cow? :-)

>12 jroger1: I assume it's cheaper.

12: "It is well known within the industry that Italian leather is the best of its kind."

http://maxwellscottlm.hubpages.com/hub/what-is-so-special-about-italian-leather-

ps The piece is not about books, but I think you can interpolate.

>14 astropi:

That's a bit of a puff piece (from a seller of Italian Leather....), and I'm not sure I'd be citing it myself.

Italian leather perception is 30% product quality and 70% pure marketing, though. If you take decent hides and decent tanning processes, the origin is not that important.

15: And where exactly did you just pull those numbers from? I'm guessing you just made that up. If not, please provide a link to support your claim that it's only 30% product quality. I think it's like saying that German cars are only good because of marketing. Truth is, yes marketing is important. However, most "brands" have a reputation for a reason and Italian leather is known worldwide to be among the best.

>15 Studedoo:

Clearly those numbers were not empirical (Sigh). I pulled the numbers from my butt in response to you posting an article from an Italian leather merchant (the first one that showed up when you Googled it) as fact. Like I said, you can obtain leather from many other regions that use the same processes and you will have a product that is as good. The idea that the quality of a product is based on the materials and processes, rather than the country of origin should be self-evident. I'm not remotely saying Italian leather is bad (quite the opposite, actually), just that there is a large marketing component behind the hype. I would suggest that a vegetable tanned hide from a premium supplier in the US is probably going to be on a par with a similar hide at a similar price point from Italy. You are more likely to get Italian leather because they have more tanneries (tanning hides that are as probable to have originated outside Italy as not). Italy isn't magic. You would know that if you had seen the welding on a Ferrari. It is horrible on a car perceived to be high quality. The welding on a modern Lambo is fantastic, but then that is built by Germans...

Actually with German cars, a big part of the product offering is "perceived build quality". The key is the word "perceived". Having a door that makes a solid "thunk" when you close it makes you think the quality is good, for example. You might well think Porsches (for example) are great, but their engine reliability has been horrible (the now-resolved IMS bearing failure being the classic issue in recent years). VAG have also had major issues with the DSG gearboxes. If you think German cars are entirely without problems, you probably don't know much about cars. Again, they are a decent product, but there is a gap between hype and reality which is bridged by effective marketing (and a decent warranty).

I'm not disagreeing that leather from the US can be as good as from Italy. In fact I'm not sure that Italian leather is actually cheaper than leather from the US, but my point was in general Italian leather has a reputation of being excellent and for good reasons. By the way it's interesting that you bring up Porsche as an example. Supposedly it's the second most dependable vehicle, at least according to this study

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=buy&story=topDependBrd&s...

German leather (especially from Bavaria) is also perceived by many to be of very high quality, particularly in the furniture industry. I agree with other posters that it's really about the quality of the hides and the tanning process, irrespective of country of origin. However, there may be clusters of excellence as with many industries (there is a reason Morocco leather is named such). Also, it matters whether the leather is full grain or split grain (top or bottom). Full grain leather is thicker and richer. Compare your standard EP edition against the leather bound Franklin Library editions. Most of the latter used full-grain leather (probably cowhide, but the FL/OUP books may have used calfskin).

I'm partial to the rattlesnake leather boots we get here in Oklahoma. They make great slipcases!

By the way....I called and there are 125 copies of the Don Quixote DLE remaining in stock. I will be reading the "normal" EP Don Quixote within the next few weeks to see if I really like this book enough to add it to my collection..description sounds marvelous.

>18 astropi:

I don't think I ever suggested that Italian leather was cheaper than leather sourced domestically.

Regarding the Porsches, try talking to a few Porsche owners (particularly pre 2009 Cayman and Boxster). I very specifically chose Porsche because of their notorious "chocolate engines". Most people with failures get them rectified under warranty (new crate engine), so Porsche has been very good at burying the problems and it is hard to pin down an exact percentage that fail (or indeed will fail in the future).

Owners go to significant lengths to try and detect IMS failure (in particular) early before they have a $20,000 bill for a new engine. The thing about Porsche is that they are very good about rectifying the problems in-warranty, and almost everyone has an extended warranty (you would be nuts to have a recent one without). The reality, however, is that Porsche have had a pretty bad run in terms of engine durability (the IMS isn't the only issue), relative to vehicle cost, especially when you take into consideration that the vehicles typically cover fairly low mileage. I know of a guy with a 911 that ended up being bought back from him by Porsche as they eventually admitted they just couldn't make the car work (electrical problems). Is this the norm? Well of course not, but it does call the squeaky clean image into question.

Then again, I ended up getting a Lotus Exige S instead, and the first week I had it, I took the key out of the ignition and the engine kept on running due to a frayed wire. That probably wouldn't have happened in a Porsche, but that's the price to be paid for being 400kg lighter...

Like I said, there is always a gap between perception and reality. That's why companies have marketing departments not just spec sheets. I suspect we are not going to agree, though.

> 11

Interesting. Didn't know they used pig-skin. I assume it doesn't have issues
like sheep-skin? I know sheep doesn't hold up well...

>23 JustinTChan: pigskin is definitely more durable than sheepskin in my experience. I believe the illustrious Nonesuch Press used pigskin for some of its leather-bound volumes. If I'm right, then pigskin (at least untreated pigskin) does have a tendency to wrinkle more than cowhide or goatskin, but that does not adversely impact its durability. I believe EP treats its pigskin covers with something that prevents or retards the wrinkling, giving its standard editions a somewhat plasticized texture.

>23 JustinTChan: I think just about any leather is more durable than sheepskin. I've never noticed any problems except fading from sunlight on any of my Easton (or Franklin) volumes. Of course, I don't think any of my books from these publishers are more than thirty years old.

Well, they say the Necronomicon is bound in human-skin and it's basically eternal so...

Humans for the win?

> 24

I had a copy of that, but I sold it. Got it in some huge lot of 80 LEC books.

>27 JustinTChan: That's funny in a macabre way.

>28 JustinTChan: You had a copy of the Necronomicon and sold it? :-)

I purchased my copy of the Necronomicon from some raving guy. It was hard to negotiate a price since he kept screaming and cowering at every shadow, but I really wanted it. Later sold it after I started having weird dreams...

> 31

Ignore 31. He's craaazzzyyyy

I found a copy in a graveyard once, but failed to say "Klaatu barada nikto" correctly and an army of the undead attacked my house later that night.

Wait wait wait, you can't cross stories like that!

Anyone by chance see a guy with a chainsaw instead of a hand?

I too had one and burned it when demons from hell started attacking me....and I just opened the book once to admire it's beauty and did not utter a single incantation.

Just a friendly reminder there are less than 30 copies left of Gustave Doré's "DON QUIXOTE". I just ordered mine.

http://www.eastonpress.com/prod/DA2/Gustave-Dor%c3%a9-s-DON-QUIXOTE_2875?cm_st=2...

Item Number #2875

Happy reading!

Crap. I already have a copy of Don Quixote; very nice book. I saw this thread pop up and was hoping EP had found a hidden stash of Necromicons and listed those.

I will admit that I put of buying this for a long time. I ended up buying it eventually and was very surprised at how beautiful and impressive it was!

If ur on the fence u will not be disappointed!

You must really like the book though at that price. I bought the Dore art on Dover press paperback and follow along as I read the standard massive EP edition with excellent commentary. It is not in my favorite 100 books; not a riveting read; I am slogging through it because it is my library. I read a chapter or two now and then as I read more interesting works. Same with Dante at a cantos or two now and then.

A nice volume, I'm happy with my 1870 original edition bought two years ago for $85. It's not the first time that an EP DLE induced me to go out and buy the original edition. Sort of strange when the copy costs more than the original.

>40 kdweber:
I agree. As DLE prices go through the roof, I have found myself looking for high quality alternatives and often finding them at a small fraction of the cost. Usually not the original, but a good FS, Franklin, LEC, or even a few trade editions like W. W. Norton's wonderful Annotated Alice fit the bill very nicely.

Not all the DLEs are overpriced or flawed, though, and some are not easy to replace. We just have to be more selective than we used to be.

I did the same on Quixote. I found an original but ended up passing as it was pricey and not in good shape at all. Very nice to see an original though!

Makes you tink that's for sure...

>40 kdweber: though EP DLEs of Hugo and Dumas (5 to date) convinced me to buy the original 1888 Hugo novels: Man Who Laughs, and Ninety-three by Routledge. I am trying to get EP to publish them. I would rather sell 10-20 less liked books to finance a beautifully illustrated DLE, then let those books sit on my shelf.

>41 jroger1: agreed especially on Rackham's Wagner, which I really wanted. Fortunately this forum helped me become aware of the Famous Editions version, which I got at a fraction of the DLE cost. And when the Rackham Alice came out the forum helped me discover the 150th anniversary Alice instead (my family bought 3 of those).

I'm tempted by the DLE Quixote. Does anyone have good pics? I can't find much online.

>44 SgtStryker0331:
Try this link for samples of Dore's Quixote art.
http://www.openculture.com/2013/12/gustave-dores-definitive-engravings-of-don-qu...

I don't agree with the notion that DLE prices are going "through the roof". In fact, it's the opposite. In 2009, the Kelmscott Chaucer was $600. The second DLE (Midsummer Night's Dream) was $500. Many DLEs such as the magnificent Dore illustrated Don Quixote are under $400! The beautiful SIGNED and illustrated War of the Worlds is $276! Of course price, size, illustrations, etc vary book to book, but overall you get more for your dollar than ever before. By the way, accounting for inflation, $600 in 2009 is over $660 today.

>46 astropi:
Price is relative to quality, and notice that I said that not all DLEs are overpriced. The first 8 or 10 DLEs were something really special. You could buy one blind and know that Kelmscott and Midsummer were going to be exquisite in every detail, and many still are. But somewhere along the way, the quality/price ratio dipped on many others, and these are the ones for which we need alternatives.

I don't think EP is overpriced, so much as inconsistently priced. They really need to be less cagey on the details -- paper, leather, printing method. Would make it easier to understand why that lavishly bound, large-paper DLE costs the same as (or possibly less than) that small octavo.

I personally think that some (not all) Folio Society LEs are overpriced. Such as Alice at $900. Beautiful book, don't get me wrong, but at that price there are many other books I'd rather have. On the other hand, I think their **letterpress** Rupert Brooke is magnificent!

http://www.foliosociety.com/book/WRB/rupert-brooke

Apparently that has not been selling well. So apparently most FS members and I disagree about where money should go :/

>49 astropi:
I agree that most FS LEs are overpriced - often substantially so. I have just one - The Aeneid- which is one of their less expensive ones. I also think their choice of titles is a little strange, but that might just be a difference of American versus British tastes.

So this book is almost sold out but I haven't seen any pictures of the actual book yet...

>47 jroger1::

What you said. I missed out on the world-famous Kelmscott (hope to get "Reynard the Foxe" as a sort of consolation prize), but I have several of the earlier DLEs. After the first couple of years I tended to lose interest when EP began replicating old copyright-expired stuff or the titles on offer just didn't do it for me...plus EP began milking the cash cow by waaaay upping the frequency of DLE releases. -So now I cherry-pick my DLEs and they're infrequent-to-rare purchases for me :-/

I can understand cherry picking. I've been doing that since the beginning. For example, while Midsummer is a beautiful DLE, and only limited to 250 copies, I still have no desire to own it. A beautiful book for sure, but I think nearly all these DLEs are beautiful books and will make someone very happy. I love the Froissart, but others may not. That is fine. Also, I can understand EP's desire to make money. They are a business after all!

Earlier today I've checked and the website said it's "under 20". A few moments ago, I checked again and now it's "under 15".

I also owned the original 2004 version and was on the fence about this one. But I finally pull the trigger and ordered one.

This is because I am also a huge fan of Dore's work. And the 2004 version I own have unfortunately, after regularly flipping through the pages, had left a permanent small crack at the corner of the leather. I thought I was being very careful every time when I turned the pages. But this just happened. Being an anal person on book collection, I just cannot tolerate this.

The other thing that I am curious about is the page difference. The 2004 version has 700 something pages, while this DLE has 1008 pages. Maybe someone who owned both version can shed some light on this.

My theory on the crack at the corner of the leather is that the edge is too thin to withstand the constant flipping open and closing the books. I'll try to post some pictures to share the crack on my 2004 Don Quixote. Maybe some of you might have this problem, too.

As a late beginner of leather-bound book collection. I consider myself to be one of the few lucky ones to own a Dore's History of the Crusades" long after it was sold out. I was able to bid and win a totally pristine one from ebay in late 2014. The only Dore's book that I don't own are Milton's Paradise Lost and The Raven. Hopefully one day Easton Press will release another DLE for Milton's Paradise Lost.

Another thing about the wish list. Hopefully one day, EP will release a Orlando Furioso and maybe La Fontaine's Fables.

>54 PetioleYu:
I, too, own the 2004 version of Quixote, but have not had the issue of cracking leather. I haven't seen the need to buy the DLE since it is essentially the same book with the same illustrations, but I can't explain the page difference. Both are supposedly reprints of the same edition.

EP published - or should I say bound - both a Paradise Lost and a Raven with Dore illustrations. Paradise Lost was copyrighted and printed by Arcturus and Raven by Chartwell, but they carry the EP logo on the spine. Both are very nice productions.

The "Musketeers" DLE has now disappeared from EP's web site, so I assume it is sold out.

I was told it sold out over that last 20% off sale weekend. Surprised it's still on the site!

>57 GOBOGIE:
You're right, Gobogie. I misfired and should have deleted my post.

Does anyone own the current printing of Quixote? It’s in the summer sale at 20% off, so I was thinking about picking it up. It seems as though it has 1,008 pages, so is a reprint of the DLE rather than the 2004 version.

>59 jsg1976:
The Dore-illustrated DLE has 735 pages, and the more recent one with Muñoz illustrations has 941 pages. I used to own an earlier edition, not a DLE but with the Dore illustrations, but I don’t remember how many pages it contained. Both the Dore DLE and the non-DLE were “edited” by F. W. Clark. The Muñoz DLE was translated by Edith Grossman.

EDIT: I see that post #54 above says that the Dore DLE contains 1008 pages, but I’m holding it in my lap right now and it contains 735 pages of text plus 28 introductory pages. If we add 120 pages of illustrations and the back side of those pages, none of which are numbered, we still wouldn’t reach 1008 but we’d be getting pretty close.

>60 jroger1: I was going off the earlier posts (>4 jroger1: and >54 PetioleYu:), which said the Dore DLE was 1,008. And the website says this current printing is 1,008 (https://www.eastonpress.com/all-categories/literature/gustave-dores-don-quixote-1286.html). Was just curious if anyone ever determined what the differences were that caused it to grow from the 778 pages of the 2004 version.

Still can’t decide if I want to prioritize Dore illustrations, Grossman translation (which is the one I’ve actually read, but in a trade hardcover), or save up for a few years for the Arion Press version.

EDIT: looks like you beat me to it. Interesting that EP has it wrong. Thanks for the info.

>60 jroger1: how do you compare the typography of the two DLEs?

>62 jsg1976:
The Dore typography is excellent for a facsimile, but the Grossman is newer and crisper. I wouldn’t make my choice based on the typography. I am a collector of Dore-illustrated books but much prefer the Grossman translation, so guess what — I had to get both. One of these days I’m going to break my back lifting one of them off the shelf, as both are very heavy and bulky.

>63 jroger1: that’s helpful. Thanks!