Finnegans Wake

In considering this new FS title, I found this info on the HOUYHNHNM edition, of which the FS edition is based. It's nice to know that it's not simply a reprint of the Penguin books edition.
http://www.houyhnhnmpress.com/finnegans-wake-prospectus

>1 brother_salvatore:

That depends, unless I'm mistaken, which Penguin edition you mean. The Penguin Restored Finnegans Wake, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Restored-Finnegans-Penguin-Modern-Classics/dp/0141192291... , uses the same text and appears to include the introductory matter of the Houyhnhnm edition's accompanying booklet. Indeed the Houyhnhnm prospectus opens with an acknowledgment that their book appears "by arrangement with Penguin Books Ltd." Is it just me, or might the FS description, marketing considerations apart, at least as justifiably read "This edition has been set from the definitive Penguin text..."?

Excellent point. Thanks for the clarification.

The Wake is a personal fave, and I'm ecstatic about this edition. But when I saw the price, I almost fell out of my chair. WTF?

>4 LaCamera:

As terebinth pointed out, this is a very large book 11.5 x 8, (the same dimensions as 'The Nude' if one has that book) and has 536 pages. I am unsure exactly what the 'leather inset label' entails though.

I agree that it would be nice to see the price in the 130-140 price range though.

> 5

The title label on the spine.

>5 sdawson:

I'll concede, it certainly passes the weight test. My conjecture on the leather inset is that it's on the spine. The promotional photo hints at leather grain surrounding the title.

> 6

No echolalia intended, Drasvola. Just slow on the draw.

> 8

Ha,ha,ha! With the Wake comes a free dictionary...

> 9

Ha. I hope it comes with some suitable drugs, as well.

Having suffered through Ulysses, the most pretentious, overblown, self-congratulatory, preening and smug text I have come across, is FW any better?

>11 InVitrio:

"Despite these obstacles, readers and commentators have reached a broad consensus about the book's central cast of characters and, to a lesser degree, its plot." (Wikipedia)

High praise, indeed!

> 11

The Wake takes those colorful descriptions to another level.

Here is the full text. A few sentences should be all you need.

http://finwake.com

Q: How will readers be able to tell if their copies of the FS edition of Finnegans Wake have the signatures bound in the right order?

A: Page numbers!

<13
Chaucer is easier to read!

>11 InVitrio: During my youth I made numerous efforts to read Ulysses because I felt I should. In every attempt I failed. A few years ago I listened to the Audio version and was blown away by the sheer beauty of the words and language used. That year I bought the FS edition on Ebay and read it straight through. Every year since, I read random chapters, about 3/4 per year. Absolutely love it now, it definitely grows on you with every reading. It well deserves all of the praise.

>13 LaCamera: Great link, many thanks. Makes it so much easier to understand.

> 16

It is often recommended to read both Ulysses and Finnegans Wake aloud.

>16 N11284:
Tried that, wife was not impressed , especially with my best Dublin accent !

Re Ulysses: I tried to read the first pages of Ulysses years ago. No success. When a new translation into French appeared a couple of years ago, I tried to read the first pages in the bookshop, thinking that a French text would help. No success. I told my wife the challenge such a book represented. She was piqued, and bought the French translation. She tried to read it. No success.

The only person I know who read Ulysses is a Peruvian student of mine who said, however, that he found the book so well-written that he stopped at about 3/4 of the book. Don't know what that means...

Now if we could just get the FS to do an edition of A Skeleton Key to Finnegans Wake with an accompanying DVD of Campbell's lectures on Joyce. They are marvelous and I would love to see them again. Seeing his infectious joy as he describes reading Joyce and explains some of the puzzles and themes and subthemes will make most people want to attempt a read.

There are two excellent guides to help the reader of Finnegans Wake. They are The Books at the Wake by James S. Atherton and A Reader's Guide to Finnegans Wake by William York Tindall. Both in paperback.

I pushed through Ulysses to the end and when I was finished felt just like an old codger on the beach with a hand in his pocket masturbating to girls playing in the sand.

I guess you had to be there. I wish I wasn't.

I must say I very much enjoyed reading Ulysses--and agree that hearing it on audio CD is a great experience (I believe Joyce's grandson allowed only one person to record it and had to do so unabridged). I think the key to reading it is to read it . . . slowly.

>25 podaniel:

And with a glass of fine scotch nearby! (Or more likely, the bottle.)

>26 scholasticus:

"And with a glass of fine scotch nearby!"

Irish. surely? A ball of malt!

>27 TabbyTom:

Good point. I'm partial to scotch myself, but I can certainly honour Joyce with a glass of Irish whisky! :)

Ulysses was purportedly written by a besotted Joyce, in its entirety. This should surprise no reader.

Has anyone received this book yet? I would love to hear about the paper, if you don't mind, how it feels etc.

Gorgeous book, fascinating illustrations; unfortunately I can't bring myself to spend so much on one (new) book... not yet, anyway.

Here is a BBC Radio link of a Ulysses reading that has just been aired a few days ago.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03vcpdb

A wonderful radio station in general, one that I listen to on an almost daily basis for about an hour on my iPad (iPlayer radio app).

>28 scholasticus:.

A glass of Irish as opposed to a glass of Scotch. It never quite sounds the same and we usually have to add the word "whiskey" to the word "Irish" for it to sound normal.

About a year ago, a friend bought me a Welsh single malt whisky. (the only one that is made in Wales).
Can you imagine saying..."Give me a Welsh on the rocks?" lol. It could almost come across as a bit of Joycean eroticism.

I've received today Finnegans Wake! It's a gorgeous edition, large-sized (28.8cm x 21 cm), heavy (perhaps a bit uncomfortable to handhold while reading) and with spectacular illustrations as intricate and difficult to interpret as the text itself. This is going to be a joy to have among other 'luxury' Joyce works. Not for bed reading but, as mentioned, sitting by an appropiate drink, i.e. a glass of good, dry sherry (or Jerez, its proper name).

The paper is Abbey Wove, an elegant shade of white. The leather insert for the title on the spine is blue and fits well with the buckram binding in dark blue and black illustrated with clouds or perhaps waves (or both), stars, a bright moon and cabalistic symbols. The slipcase is also illustrated with what looks as a strike of lightning.

ETA: the stars shown on the black sky form The Chariot constellation

>33 drasvola:

Congrats, Drasvola. Enjoy it in good health.

> 34

Thanks. Good health is a prerequisite for tackling this monumental work.

A few more details. Although the FS webpage notes that the book is set in Dante, there is no mention of type in the book itself. I've found that the introduction written by the illustrator is an excellent piece on just how difficult the job was. There is an excerpt in the FS webpage and, indeed, it is the Ursa Major in the sky and a lightning flash (from top to bottom) in the slipcase. Another interesting point: each illustration carries a bottom band, part of which is repeated to provide a link from illustration to illustration. This was called in the Middle Ages a predella. The introduction provides a synoptic table with explanations. I can't wait to delve into all the wonderful mysteries ahead!

>33 drasvola: Congratulations Antonio! It does look as though Folio have excelled themselves with this volume, it's already on my wishlist. Please keep us informed as to how you get on with it, and how much Jerez you need :)

I must confess, I'm eager to get my hands on a copy. However, I've decided to hold off in hopes of a carte blanche discount voucher, which I suspect may precede the next sale.

It appears to be a worthy edition, meticulously crafted and solicitously conceived. Daddy want.

> 36

Thanks, cronshaw. I do believe that this edition is FS at their best. Fortunately, as Jerez goes and, depending on the mood, I have a choice of fino, manzanilla, amontillado, oloroso and palo cortado!

>37 LaCamera: This Daddy wants too, but like you I will wait for either a reduction or discount voucher.

>36 cronshaw: Antonio, a young Spanish friend who worked with me for a year comes from Jerez de la Frontera , and last Christmas he brought me a small sample bottle of each of the sherries you mention. Absolutely delicious.

However my tipple when reading Joyce is a 10 year old single malt with a wood finish.
http://www.connosr.com/whiskey/irish/tyrconnell/tyrconnell-10-year-old-madeira-f...

My good friend and neighbour's Tirconnell tasting notes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMJS6d2zRis

>39 N11284:

We're kindred spirits, N11284. I'm not sure how, but a discount seems to rationalize the irrational. Go figure.

> 40

Very inspiring links, John! Thanks. I certainly won't dispute the appropiateness of the Joyce and Irish whiskey combination! I'm so glad that you were able to taste the different types of sherries. In any case, I think one needs all the help possible to tackle the Wake. Only a small part of it has ever been translated into Spanish as a sort of experiment...

> 33, 38

I ordered a copy on Friday, but did not order expedited shipping. Your descripton of it though, caused me call and ask if I could change my shipping choice, and they obliged me, so I should get it this week, instead of in 4-6 weeks.

But my real question concerns the Jerez. I have had,
I think, fino, manzanilla, amontillado, and oloroso. Is the fino cortado what we English speakers call "Cream Sherry"? That is, is it the sweetest of the five? If I decide on sherry while reading the Wake, I'll probably do it with my favorite, amontillado.

> 43

The five types I mentioned are all dry, and vary in alcohol proportion from 17º to 22º. I really don't know what the Cream Sherry category corresponds to. The sweeter types (up to Pedro Ximenez which is the sweetest one made from a grape variety bearing that name, and quite an extraordinary wine) have blends (with Moscatel) to increase the sugar content. But, as you know, the special system of criaderas y soleras that blends the wine from the levels of stacked barrels and the addition of alcohol which controls the formation of the flor are essential. Manzanilla has to come from Sanlucar de Barrameda. The closeness of the sea is a very important factor too. Having said that, the British were traditionally fundamental in developing wines for their taste, and some may not be easily available in Spanish stores. I prefer to drink fino very cold, always accompanied by cured ham, paper thin sliced. Amontillado is also a good choice. Spaniards very seldom drink without some food as accompaniment. I imagine that by 'fino cortado' you are referring to 'palo cortado' the most rare of the Jerez wines.

There's a lot of information on Jerez wines in the Wikipedia both in English and, of course, Spanish. Please let me know if I have answered, at least partially, your question.

>44 drasvola:
Yes, you more than answered my question. Thanks. But it makes me wonder if the Brits had something to do with Amontillado, since that is the "Sack" of Falstaff in the Henry IV plays by Shakespeare. That is the main reason why I started drinking it.

Enjoy your Jerez and your Finnegan's Wake. I can't wait to get mine.

>33 drasvola:
Wonderful descriptions Antonio. I am even more eager for my copy (At Warehouse) to get here.
I wonder if FS gave any thought to including a commentary / guide, but then we are starting to get into LE territory.

> 46

Thanks, Ian. Actually, the several introductions and preface do help in the presentation of the text. As previously mentioned, FS is printing the Houyhnhnm Press version of 2010 (also published by Penguin). This is my third version, since I have the Faber and Faber of 1939, and the Penguin of 1976 (also based on the Faber and Faber).
Hopefully, your copy will arrive very soon (well wrapped shipment...).

>47 drasvola:
I have the recent Penguin edition of the Houyhnhnm version, itself a perfectly fine hardback and a nice (portable) reading version. Have started to dip into it since the FS marvel was revealed.

I've read enough to know I need a little bit of help!

> 48

I found that the two books mentioned above at > 22 were of help.

>49 drasvola:

Thanks, I was aware of the William York Tindall book and will seek it out. I've also had A Skeleton Key to Finnegans Wake recommended to me.

>32 Daithioc:

Never thought of it that way, but that makes sense. And now I want to try some Welsh (whisky)!

I recently was given a taster bottle of a whiskey from Taiwan, which I found very very good. It was a single malt aged in bourbon casks and if I remember correctly was at cask strength. Kavalan Soloist from the King Kar Distillery.

Nothing posted in the forum today as of this late time! I'll add another detail I had overlooked in Finnegans Wake. The top edge of the book is gilded.

#53

Tell me more, tell me more...

Is the paper glassy, smooth or rough; shiny or matte, warm or cold to the touch, stiff or pliant...?

:)

I don't think I'll get to see this baby in person, and the quality of the paper could make or break a sight-unseen purchase!

> 54

Lola: The paper is faintly ivory in colour, very smooth, fairly thick but not stiff, matte, warm to the touch and easy on the eyes. The pages have a nice smell, the four margins around the text are wide. The type is pleasant and the text lines well balanced. The illustrations are spectacular. My recommendation is: get it! Small drawback, it's a big, heavy book for holding. Best to support it on some surface when reading.

Ahhh, hits all the right spots! Hm, the size is something to think about, though. I like holding my books, and god knows where I can find some free space/surface...

Muchas gracias, Antonio.

> 56

I just weighed the book: 1859 grams. You are most welcome!

> 53

I'm glad you mentioned the top-edge gilding, Drasvola. The Folio promotional photo is inherently misleading.

>51 scholasticus:

http://www.whiskyfun.com

This is a fairly outstanding forum which I have been reading for years which goes into deep, eclectic detail on the "amber restorative" ( as Christopher Hitchens used to call it).

>58 LaCamera:. Indeed. I just looked at the website and no mention of said gilding. One would have thought it an eminently includable detail that would enhance sales potential, especially given the price point, four score and nineteen being no small amount.

> 60

I'm with you there, Daithioc.

> 53

Drasvola, is the gilding gold or silver?

Fabulous book in physical terms, no doubt about it. But what about the contents? My recollection is of complete gobbledegook.

"None of your cumpohlstery English here!"
"I enjoy as good as anyone."

In other words, I can't wait for my copy *running to check front door again*...

I am really interested to compare it to my Houyhnhnm edition. I know the typical FS slipcase will blow the Houyhnhnm one out of the water (plain cardboard) but we'll see how it compares elsewhere. The commentary that came in a separate volume sounds like it became the introduction in the FS edition, but is it all there?

> 61

Silver.

> 63

I don't have the Houyhnhnm Press edition. The commentary is apparently a 64 page booklet. The introduction in the FS volume, by Greetham, is 12 (large) pages.

I joined FS with a bang and ordered this book. Price is steep but based on size and work that went into it and the fact that it is James Joyce...why not introduce myself to the FS disease. May my wallet rest in peace.

>65 gatsby61:

Congrats, Gats. Enjoy that potato chip.

I like that the illustrations are as busy as every page of Finnegans Wake is...a nice color scheme as well.

*The illustrations remind me of this work (Carl Flint) from the "Introducing" series...

http://carlflint.com/perch/resources/joyce-1011-2-w860h640.jpg

http://carlflint.com/perch/resources/joyce-142143-2-w860h640.jpg

http://www.kunstgeografie.nl/dublin/jj.comp.jpg

Is there a reason why this book's so expensive? I always vaguely assumed that the £100 price mark only applied to lavish mega-illustrated editions like the Blake Paradise Lost. Can anyone who has a copy clarify?

>68 JohnWilmot:

While the format isn't quite as large as Paradise Lost - but isn't very much smaller - and fewer dead animals were required for its production, it has almost twice as many pages and I think the same number of full-page illustrations. Possibly copyright is a significant factor too: maybe in respect of the text, but at the very least the FS' remuneration to John Vernon Lord ought to be rather more than they paid William Blake...

>70 terebinth: :-)

I have to say this is one I will be adding to my collection. I have a paperback edition I bought a couple of years ago, but haven't got to yet. However, somehow having something challenging (perhaps) in a nice edition, will mean returning to it will bring more pleasures than the challenge!

>72 EclecticIndulgence:

*cough*

Hiccup.

Guffaw.

From what I can see of Finnegan's Wake, it is either an amazing work of genius , or a total crock of s**t. I'm not qualified to judge obviously, as it's not apparent to me which it is.

>75 N11284:

I don't think it's either, but who knows? I'm not in much doubt that it's a genuine, perhaps a profound, entertainment to some of us, and not necessarily one adequately covered by the term 'entertainment' at all. Can't be doing with it myself: I wonder whether its appreciation is correlated with a taste, say, for crossword puzzles of the more abstruse kind. After my thirty-odd years of various reading I recognise some of its meshes of allusion, but somehow I neither derive any satisfaction from so doing nor develop the foggiest wish to tease out or have expounded to me any of the rest.

> 75, 76

In my opinion, the Wake is essential reading for diehard Joyce fans. However, for the casual Folio collector who at most may be intrigued by the idea of a challenging read, you will be grossly disappointed. Most people give up after page one, and for good reason. The text is frankly unintelligible, not because it is recondite (which it is), but rather, because it is largely based on a concocted language. If you don’t already love Joyce’s postmodern brand of circumlocution and insiders-only humor, you’ll likely be more annoyed than enthralled. For what it’s worth, my advice is to pass on the $200 Folio unless you already love the Wake, and can’t live without a luxury edition.

>69 EclecticIndulgence:

I thought it was funny...relax a little.

Try this if you please: the English being unintelligible, how about tasting a translation into Spanish of the book's first page? The photographs can be entertaining if you bog down in the footnotes...

http://www.difusioncultural.uam.mx/casadeltiempo/89_jun_2006/casa_del_tiempo_num...

Que barbaridad ! - wonderful pics

My initial emotion with FW is... life's too short, and I essentially agree with >77 LaCamera:, after once reading a few pages. However, I once thought the same of Moby Dick ( as a young fool) only for the recent FSD LE thread to entice me to try again; I'm half way through (standard FS edition) and loving it, so may revisit Joyce, but not at Folio price

> 81

I commend anyone willing to give it a go. It’s certainly not for everyone, but those willing to put in the time and effort will be commensurately rewarded. Just beware of any comparison to Moby Dick, as Melville’s tome actually has a plot, uses generally recognizable English words, and is eminently readable (I would argue, even delightful).

Finnegans Wake? Not so much.

I listen to free jazz (think Ornette Coleman). I don't understand free jazz. I love free jazz.

I read Finnegans Wake. I don't understand Finnegans Wake. I love Finnegans Wake.

For me the comparison is apt. In both I can lose myself in the sonic experimentation, without always (or perhaps ever!) truly understanding what is going on. I think you need to strip away convential expectations of plot, and think more in terms of entering a linguistic dreamscape...or at least I do!

But I completely get how this would not appeal to many. Despite my best efforts, I have only ever once managed to find a convert to the delights of Ornette Coleman. More often than not my attempts have solicited the reaction that it is just unlistenable "arty farty poncy nonsense" (to quote one particularly memorable reaction!)

...I should add that I am also a big fan of Flann O'Brien (aka Brian O'Nolan, aka Myles na gCopaleen) and I never knew what he was on about most of the time either, although it was obvious to me that he must have been permanently under the influence of Joyce and alcohol!

I love languages and once, as a kid who used four-five languages daily, dreamed of writing a book of travel in which all my languages would mesh together organically. I've long lost the zeal for that project but I remain drawn to anything that smacks of linguistic experimentation (I also happen to be extremely fond of nonsense). I think Joyce felt a similar fascination with languages or he wouldn't have been driven to such wholesale, sustained, energetic invention. That's my invitation. My one regret in approaching Finnegans Wake is that I don't know Gaelic, and rather less about Irish history and culture than I suspect would be useful. But this sort of knowledge isn't absolutely necessary for my enjoyment.

From what I've seen of it so far, treating it as a cryptic text to "decode" or puzzle to "solve" may be too inhibitive to pleasure or profit. No doubt there are "meanings" in the text Joyce knew about, and no doubt at least some of those might become clear to readers with a given background or handy aid (there's at least one "key" to FW). But fishing out some "meaning" is truly the last thing I'd worry about. We are creatures who read messages into stars, birds' flight, oblique glances, tea leaves, ancient writ etc. If there are signs, there are stories.

#83

Right on!

I love Coleman too. :)

I can handle Coleman in small batches. His music isn't something I can listen to for very long, and I suspect that Finnegan's Wake would fall under the same category, which is a problem for a 536-page novel.

But, I guess if I read it a little at the time, I wouldn't risk losing the thread of the plot!

I'd add Captain Beefheart in there and totally agree with you on the comparison Conte_Mosca.

While I'm not always in the mood for Beefheart, Coleman, or Joyce, there are times when they are just the thing. And part of the fascination with Joyce for me is the journey from the straightforwardness of Dubliners, through writing mimicking the growth of Stephen in A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, to the experimentation of Ulysses and the Wake. I think it really helps to read them as a progression. Otherwise the Wake could kill you...(pun intended).

Language is an invention. It becomes a means for communication when it is shared. Joyce's greatness is that he did away with conventions and took 'existing forms and references' and combined them, juggling bits and ends into transformations in such a way that the graphic image (the word) requires the sound plus additional content to begin making any 'sense.' Finnegans Wake is the work of a genius. It needs to be 'understood' in its own terms. It cannot be compared to anything else. It cannot be pigeonholed in any way. That's how, for me, you have to 'read' the book.

Oh, there is a wide gap in my musical appreciation. Must confess that I had never heard of Ornette Coleman. I'm investigating...

>82 LaCamera:-88, I understand what you're saying, and I'm a bit jealous in a way as I just can't make it happen for me (that includes free jazz, give me the blues all day long) . I spend my day trying to get to the real narrative behind people's histories and when I read , away from work, I , possibly atavistically, want a proper story, with a plot and everything that goes with it. A friend once said to me " Mate, you're a simple man with simple tastes" . He was talking about claret , but I guess it could be extrapolated to literature - or, indeed, anything :-) . I'm going to give it another go , though.

> 89 tarangurgi

While there are plenty of avant poetic works that I would compare to jazz, I tend to associate the Wake with the cacophony made by silverware falling down a staircase. ; )

Many of my doctoral colleagues, who happen to be aspiring Joyce scholars, like to affect that they are attuned at some higher plane to the language of the Wake; that is, their capacity for comprehension is putatively more sophisticated than the average readership. In truth, they have no more idea what it is saying than anyone else. You can always tell when someone is putting on the dog.

Not even the immortal linguistic virtuoso, Vladimir Nabokov, knew what to do with the Wake. All I can say is consider yourself in good company.

>90 LaCamera: My comparison was not with jazz though, but free jazz! In rock terms, that's perhaps the difference between Bon Jovi and Frank Zappa (although perhaps Zappa is closer to Coleman's free jazz than what most would recognise as rock.) For many, that is the equivalent of silverware falling down a staircase! (Nice analogy by the way, I feel motivated to go and record that sound now!)

And you guessed it, I love Frank Zappa (but again, don't understand any of it! Hot Rats!)

>85 LolaWalser: As an Irishman who has read and loved Dubliners , A Portrait of the Artist and Ulysses (I must admit I struggled at times with the latter.) I also speak Gaelic and , I hope am well versed in Irish history and mythology. However none of the above helps me make head nor tail of the strange words I come across even on Page1. "were sosie sesthers wroth with twone nathandjoe", as an example.

Just found this:

#92

Ha! See, how different we are...

were sosie sesthers wroth with twone nathandjoe", as an example.

You know what *I* see in there?

Saucy sisters writhing with twins nat and joe.

:)

For example. It's wide open.

>92 N11284: At least it made sense to you! which is more than I can see for me. I believe it means "twin sisters angry with two and one Jonathan", which is a reference to Jonathan Swift and his amours with two girls, Esther Johnson and Esther Van Homrigh.

Obvious right !

> 91

Mea culpa, Conte. I concede that free jazz is an apposite metaphor.

Some people (e.g. Oliver Gogarty camp) think the Wake is Joyce’s joke on academics, who interminably scramble to apply meaning to the text and profess to have privileged insight into authorial intentionality. I’m no conspiracy theorist, but if anyone were capable of such an exploit, it would be Joyce.

#95

I'd say nothing is obvious here--nor does it need to be.

As I said, personally I'm not obsessed with chasing some "meaning". Sure, that's one approach--one that I find, on the whole, dull and frustrating. Why read FW at all if the point is in getting to "what is it about"? Might as well just read the "key" (Maybe it's "keys" by now...)

I'm interested primarily in the sound and shape of language, in its ambiguities and word games. Knowing Gaelic and Irish history etc. would simply enrich the sources of my associations, like Latin and French do, or knowledge of Trieste. And--wildly guessing here--I think Joyce would be more interested in various visions people gleaned from his words than whether they hit upon the exactly same image or idea he had in mind when writing them.

By the way, hitting on "saucy sisters" and erotic writhing isn't that far off what he was getting at (assuming he was getting at just one specific thing) with Swift's dalliances with some sisters, eh?

So, maybe not that opaque even on that level.

> 97

A classic (and uproariously funny book) on the subject of sound and meaning, in this case reading French to sound like English, is Mots d'heures: Gousses, Rames by Luis d'Antin van Rooten. I have checked, and my old copy of this book now goes for around $200.

#98

Ha, yes, I have it, very cute.

I see you have Le ton beau de Marot, Antonio, it's a great reference for language lovers! That might be a good book to recommend before tackling more experimental texts in general...

> 99

Yes, Lola. A perfect example on the beauty of language and just how it is the highest achievement of the human mind...

ETA: with the permission of mathematicians and musicians...

Mots d'heures: Gousses, Rames is a wild ride! There were a few toward the end I almost couldn't get...and the annotations were a little added bonus.

>98 drasvola: - 101

The wonderful thing about "Mots d'heures: Gousses, Rames" is that the annotations are not one bit sillier than much of the nonsense which is dished up in all seriousness to "explain" the origins of nursery rhymes, folk songs, clichés and so on.

> 102

My first contact with the book was many years ago when an American friend asked me to read it aloud to him. He roared with laughter, and I didn't have a clue. Since then I have gone back to it, and I always find something that I've missed before. Need I mention that English nursery rhymes were not part of my childhood?

This helped a great deal:

http://books.google.com/books?id=z8o9AAAAYAAJ&dq=only%20true%20mother%20goos...

Some pretty good ones in there.

Finally received my FS edition of the Wake and can compare it with the Houyhnhnm Press. Here are some comparisons:

- At $195, the FS Wake is half the price of the HP Wake that was limited to 800 copies. Unless you are a Joycean nut (I am) or like limited editions (I do) then you'll probably be happier with the FS. The FS edition is my fourth edition of the Wake.
- In the HP Wake, all the supporting material is in a separate booklet. This includes a Note, a Preface, a Foreword, an Introduction, an Afterword, and Acknowledgements. The Wake is bound on its own. In the FS Wake, all of that is bound into one edition, with the exception of the Forward, Afterword, and Acknowledgements. These were not included in the FS Wake.
- I REALLY like the illustrations and I especially like the Introduction to the Illustrations where Lord walks us through his thoughts on the illustrations. Not sure I've seen that in a book before.
- The text of the Wake is exactly the same in both editions but the supporting material was reset in the FS edition. Not sure why that is.
- I like the creaminess of the Arcoprint paper used for the HP Wake over the brightness of the FS Abbey Wove paper. The font stands out better and it seems easier on the eye. Every little comfort counts when reading the Wake.
- The FS Wake's slipcase is high quality and design thought was put into it, i.e., the lightning bolt-cum-River Liffey graphic. The HP slipcase is merely a functional piece of cardboard.
- Roughly the same size, with the FS Wake a bit thicker because of the bound-in supporting material and illustrations

So there you have it, and now I have two more readings of the Wake on by TBR list. My last read took a year, so I better get started...

Thanks for this. The Wake is now slowly creeping up the list of priorities for this year.

>107 DejaVoo:

I'm a total outsider too, but from this thread and elsewhere (and from reading its first page or two) my best impression so far is that the Wake is a compelling entertainment for certain varieties of creative reader. I don't imagine IQ matters much, but the more someone has read, and remembers of what they have read, the more generative possibilities the text may have for them. At the very least the book is intriguingly divisive.

>107 DejaVoo: Understanding is overrated (or should that be underover standingrated?). Don't consider it as necessarily a barrier to enjoyment!

The esteemed Evelyn Waugh and his brief take on Joyce/Finnegan's Wake.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O9IinGHntTs

I like this line in the description of the book on the FS website:

As Joyce scholar John Bishop observed, ‘the only way not to enjoy Finnegans Wake is to expect that one has to plod through it word by word making sense of everything in linear order’

Read it any way you want to...or not. It's a night book, a dream book. You won't remember it all, understand it all, or be able to necessarily describe what you just read/dreamt.

Indeed, I have a love/hate relationship with the damned book. I’m beginning to suspect that I like the idea of it more than the actual thing.

I found "Ulysses" fairly "accessible" (I think that's the current jargon) when I read it decades ago, but I admit I haven't got round to re-reading it in my Folio edition.

I know "Finnegans Wake" only by what other people have said about it, and I can't make up my mind whether to risk getting a copy. I certainly don't want to part with a hundred pounds for a Folio edition of a work I don't know, but I may hunt around for a secondhand paperback edition, and then get the Folio if I'm hooked.

>114 TabbyTom: I wouldn't recommend that anyone who is not already familiar with FW part with £100 to find out. Despite my protestations that you don't need to understand it to enjoy it, it is nevertheless a very challenging read. For those with a Kindle, I recommend the Delphi Complete Works of James Joyce as a starting point, and you can make up your mind from there. £2.18 very well spent, and Finnegans Wake includes a part by part synopsis for the completely befuddled (like me!).

An alternative starting point is to find a copy of the long out-of-print The Shorter Finnegans Wake, edited by the wonderful Anthony Burgess. This is how I first read FW. I know many people have strong views about abridgements, but without it I would never have tackled the full text, and I therefore agree with the Kirkus reviewer who said:

" No doubt pedants will object to the Burgess "cuts" but since he has tastefully selected the more readable portions, accenting Joyce's robust lyricism and heartiest puns, and kept a good weather-eye open towards shaping the novel's outrageously double-dealing symbology, A Shorter Finnegans Wake may well prove to be a college favorite, and perhaps even seduce a few stalwarts into attacking the real thing."

Taken from that same review:

" Salvaging what he considers the most essential parts, interlocked with a running synopsis of the deleted passages, Burgess has come up with roughly a third of the original text. (The length is a mere 250 pages.)"

In terms of how to read FW, I think that Danis Rose and John O'Hanlan give good advice in their preface to The Restored Finnegans Wake (Penguin Modern Classics):

" Finnegans Wake has often been described as music; as such it is music of sense as much as it is music of sound, and, like all music, it must flow unhindered to be heard. Gentle reader, if you were to ask 'how should I read this book?' we would answer: passively, like any good book, neither too fast nor too slow. Do not pause because you cannot understand a word or words: you are not expected to understand it all. Imagine yourself a child, leaning over the banisters, listening to the grown-up banter going on below. You are learning a language; a night language. Morning will come and the clouds of unknowing will dissipate".

Mind you, it is still all pretty night-cloudy to me!

>114 TabbyTom:, 115 I spent 99 cents on a used copy of FW at a college book shop in Honolulu and still felt ripped off :) They (Ulysses and FW) are very different animals.

Edited for clarity.

I think Finnegans Wake is a bunch of pretentious, self-indulgent crap that people pretend to like. I also don't buy into the pretext that you don't have to understand it because its poetic, musical cadence is somehow rewarding enough.

Now that's the way to make an entrance! Welcome , Equatorial Guinea ;-)

Hmm...

Thank you, tarangurgi. Longtime lurker, never bothered to post. What better way to make friends than to cut through the b.s.?

I can think of many better ways.

No need to agree on FW.

>123 Cornfolio: I entirely agree, and I respect your opinion about FW (after all, it is the majority opinion amongst my reading friends). But calling other people's opinions to date BS?

Sorry, Conte_Mosca. I'm not calling your opinions b.s. I'm saying that I don't intend to b.s. people.

>125 Cornfolio: Fair enough. Only my wife is allowed to call my opinions BS!

Welcome to my world.

After some searching, I've managed to find my copy of Anthony Burgess's "Here Comes Everybody", intended as an introduction to Joyce's work (I had gone against the habit of a lifetime and actually shelved it where it ought to be!). I'll read what he has to say about FW; then maybe I'll follow up Conte Mosca's advice and download the Kindle Complete Works (at least I'll have some worthwhile stuff even if I can't get on with FW.

> 115, 128

Conte_Mosca is quite an expert on Delphi Classics! The Joyce collection is an excellent investment and, really, handier than the FS Wake...

#116

I like that a lot. Dream languages are always individual; I'm looking forward to encountering Joyce's.

#105

Thanks, jveezer! I must admit what you say about the paper makes my heart sink, I can't abide the BRIGHT WHITE variety, especially if it's smooth. Too much like office paper. Must check Folios with that paper before final decision... I wish they used, say, whatever it was in the Gnostic gospels, to date that's my favourite paper in a FS edition. If it had to be white, I seem to recall, for instance, the one in The ship of fools, very white, but not smooth, so there's a pleasing texture to it.

> 115 Conte_Mosca

I greatly appreciate the tip concerning The Shorter Finnegans Wake, Conte; I was not aware of this abridgment. I'd like to see what Burgess selected for inclusion, omission, and adumbration, as well as the rationale behind his decisions.

The less FW, the better. A shorter version means fewer puns, and hence, fewer groans.

>132 Cornfolio:

dog of the Crostiguns

Now that is the kind of pun that will have them rolling in the aisles.

**Groan.**

>134 Cornfolio:

such low down blackguardism...the bumpersprinkler used to boast himself aloud to himself with a haccent on it

I have requested the Shorter Finnegan's Wake from the library. I suspect that this will be the only attempt at this book I will ever make, but one never knows.

Thanks to Conte Mosca for bringing the existence of this abridgement to my attention!

I'm glad you don't intend to beat a dead horse, Peter.

>137 Cornfolio:

For my own a coant!

Down among the dustbins let him lie! Ear Ear!

I spoke too soon.

>139 Cornfolio:

vociferated echoating

>141 EclecticIndulgence: Aaaand it's gone. That did not take long. I expect market value to actually be somewhat higher than FS retail price, with some demand and no supply. Main cause for the demand would be to complete the matching set with Ulysses, I guess.

Out of interest, for what price was it listed?

>142 Fierylunar: $108, if my memory isn't messing with me

>143 gmacaree: That was a good price. The book cost me $148 new from the FS.

I think the main cause of the demand is the fact that it's one of the most beautifully bound books in the world also. Finnegans wake is hilarious and poetic and a gem as a text alone and it is certainly amplified in this edition.

Holding it (the mere size of it!), opening up any random page, aka leaf, and reading it out loud whether to a friend or to yourself is a guaranteed good time

It'll be interesting to see how the FS Finnegans Wake will fare on the secondary market in years to come. The Folio edition is truly beautiful, surpassing many a limited edition with regards to its commissioned illustrations and overall design, yet it's a work whose text remains impenetrable even to critics. My favourite review of it remains the baffled respect of this 1939 Guardian critic, who preferred to 'suspend judgement', finding that Finnegan's Wake 'does not admit of review'.

Well too late...I have been trying to find a copy for almost a year...

>148 bifurcat:
Why?
Stop torturing yourself and read something intelligible instead.
I suspect Joyce is rolling in his grave with laughter as he sees the intelligensia trying to read the gobbledygook that I am sure he must have written as some evil joke.
And yes, I am a Joyce cynic.

It is for collecting purpose only. I don't think I will ever read it. Just need it to match my Ulysses (Which I actually like)...And also for the illustrator John Vernon Lord

I'm on the fence on this one. I love Ulysses, have read it over and over discovering something new every time. With the Wake I find it completely unintelligible, but then something clicks and I find myself unable to stop. I read short bits regularly , if possible aloud, and find that if you ignore the weird spelling there is a flow to the words that is hard to describe. I suspect that he was completely insane when he wrote it however or as near as makes no difference.

>144 EclecticIndulgence: I have a want set up for FW on abe. I got the email, opened the link, and was somewhat tempted by the low price. I clicked "Save for Later", but abe claimed "This item has sold". Someone must have bought it in those few seconds between me clicking the link, and pressing the "save" button!

>146 harvestRoad: I agree, the text definitely holds more appeal in FS's beautiful edition.

>152 EroticsOfThought: Unfortunately there's usually a delay between the actual listing of the book and the notification email, sometimes of quite a few hours — but that's unlucky timing!

Joyce was neither mad nor joking when he wrote Finnegans Wake, though there are plenty of jokes in it. Took the man almost two decades to write, after all.

I still need to pair the FS Ulysses with this one, but I wish FS would produce Beckett's novels, which I greatly prefer; the ying to Joyce's yang.

>142 Fierylunar: suspicion confirmed, a copy currently on Ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Folio-Society-Finnegans-Wake-James-Joyce-Illustrated-Sl...

4 hours left, current price 355 US$!

I think I'll wait hopefully for a reprint !
Oh why did I not buy this one when it was still available from FS - I came close ...

>154 Fierylunar: $508 (!!!)

Is this the highest above its original price a non-LE has sold for? I'm sure it's the highest that I've seen.

>156 EroticsOfThought:

Nope, not even close. This copy of Blue at the Mizzen, the last book of the Aubrey-Maturin series which is OOP, sold for £522 ($694) which is not only higher in absolute terms but also a bigger premium over the original Folio retail price of £32.95 (in 2015) as the Aubrey-Maturin books are not fine editions like Finnegans Wake. Also worth noting that the sold price of £522 was only £133 short of the cost of the entire 20-book series.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blue-At-The-Mizzen-Patrick-OBrian-Folio-Society-book-...

>157 wongie: Wow! I've seen those books as a set quite often in photos, but I didn't realise some of them were so highly sought after!

The O'Brians pale in pictures compared to when you hold them. One pf the few times that is the case i would say

I purchased a copy recently from a member here, at significantly lower cost than the eBay auction. A very scarce title, apparently. I'm glad to have it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/James-Joyce-Finnegans-Wake-The-Folio-Society-2014-Illus...

No connection to seller.

>161 HermeticHermit:

It sold for US$460/GBP£344. 10 bidders, 32 bids.

>162 bookfair_e:

One sold for US$508/GBP£383 a couple of weeks ago. I'm glad I found mine in October in fine condition for US$78.50.

So four years on has anyone actually read their Folio edition in its entirety?

No. Lovely looking book but I can’t make much headway with reading it

I can happily say that I finished the Wake a few weeks ago. Did I enjoy it? Yes. Can I explain what it's all about? Absolutely not!

It took me well over a year to read. I read a few pages every day , if alone I read aloud. All in all well worth the effort.

It's more like a 500 page poem in prose. I love it, i have it by my bed and open it uo just to read some touching or hilarious passage now and then. I believe it's also one of those perfect folio editions.

I have two of them, one came by mail about a week after the other and i swear i have zero recollection of purchasing it twice. From different retailers too. I'm very confused but utnis nice to have one by the table at all times and one on the shelf next to the ulysses and portrait and dubliners.

>167 harvestRoad:
Don't feel bad. I only have one copy and I'm confused.

Reviving an old thread to link an article I came across. Never read the book myself, struggled through Ulysses but enjoyed it. Think the idea of that kind of a book club is neat:

https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2023/nov/12/california-venice-book-club-finnge...

>169 RRCBS: How cool. They just started a re-read this month. I'm nearby so I just sent a note to see if they're accepting new members! Thanks for sharing.

>169 RRCBS: Well, that's an unusual approach. My regular book club usually reads one book a month but once a year we do a two month read to handle longer titles. For Ulysses we made a special exemption and took three months. After four failed attempts to read the book on my own I managed to finally complete the read with my book club.

>169 RRCBS:
Thanks for sharing that article. I do have FW. I was planning to knock to it off the TBR pile next weekend. Maybe I'll have to lock in a bit more time.

I give you all credit. There are so many other books I have yet to read along with frequently discovering new authors, both alive and dead, that I have zero interest in ever attempting to read this book. Life is too short in my opinion!

In my last year of college at Princeton back in 1998-99, I did an independent study on Finnegans Wake with my senior thesis advisor. His specialty was Spenser (i.e., The Faerie Queene) and 16th-century English poetry, but I read Joyce's work with him because he claimed to be the last faculty member to teach it, all the way back in the 1960s in a seminar on allegory. In the end, I wrote a long term paper on Ibsen's The Master Builder and the Bygmester Solness motif in FW. For me, reading FW all the way through and having some sort of grasp of it will always be one of my greatest achievements as a reader.

>174 CJDelDotto:
Congrats, not that you needed it. I liked the book quite a lot and maybe regret trading it... I let it go because I had no interest in Ulysses and at the time took the collecting of the set as necessary... Either way, the book had quite a nuanced philosophy and with the historical touch. Almost a genre of its own? A bit of Homer, Riddley Walker and Brothers Grimm...? I dunno.

Messages above were from an author promoting their (very) ordinary non-Folio book.

If they were (very) ordinary, we don't even want to see them

Seeing this thread go live again reminded me that I'm still working my way through the Wake for a second time. A page a week, ha ha....

I'll always be grateful to the Folio Society for getting me to read Finnegans Wake. I've been a member since 1988, and I've never been able to afford a Limited Edition, but I was so taken with the book offered in 2014 that I bit the bullet and bought it. Having done so I could then hardly resist reading a book on which I had just spent two hundred dollars.

I took it four pages at a time, largely avoided the abundant keys, analyses and intros, and found the patience to get through those not infrequent patches where obscurity seemed to descend into utter gibberish. By and large I was pleased and a little surprised to find that I enjoyed it and occasionally found it beautiful.

I was not tempted to buy the companion Folio Ulysses, since I still have a 1984 slipcased Book-of-the-Month Club special edition with an introduction by Anthony Burgess. One of the great advantages of reading the Wake is that you can then go back to Ulysses and say, "Hey, this isn't so bad!" (Except for Nighttown.)

>182 RickartAllen: Congratulations on an impressive achievement! I've yet to read Finnegans Wake beyond a few pages. The Folio FW (and the matching Ulysses) is one of Folio's greatest creations with peerless illustrations by John Vernon Lord. It's telling that for the subsequent Ulysses LE they essentially just reprinted the text pages and illustration plates of the unlimited edition, wrapping them in calfskin and a solander case. I expect the same will happen with FW at some point.

>181 jveezer: That's dedication. I have attempted Finnegan’s Wake only once years ago and made the mistake of attempting to read it straight after Ulysses. My brain just couldn’t handle them back to back.