Divine Comedy

Hello, I'm not a Folio Society fan, as I don't own a single volume, but everyone on LT keeps telling me I should reconsider. I heard a rumor that FS is planning on releasing an LE of the Divine Comedy, which just might change everything in this regard. Does anyone have any information on this? From what I understand from a phone call with their customer service, it should be coming in Sept. or at the very least, information about its release.

I've been asking Easton Press for years to re-release their DLE edition of the Divine Comedy with the Dore illustrations, but they haven't done so. (And the secondary market is atrocious for re-sells). It would be nice to see FS release it with the classic illustrations. Does anyone here think this is possible, or will it be modern illustrations? I prefer the former, which is why I've stuck with Franklin Library and EP, and other fine presses.

>1 Gilded_Tomes1:

If your finances permit, this is what you want - or should want............

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=30611859993&clickid=XSk36U...

>2 dlphcoracl: Thanks for this, not quite what I was looking for. I looked at Folio's website and saw they have a copy of Gargantua and Pantagruel with the original Dore illustrations. I'm curious if Folio is planning on releasing the Divine Comedy with the Dore illustrations in the same fashion?

I just ask as I'm not too familiar with Folio's releases. Of the LE editions I've seen in the past, I noticed that they tend to rely on modern illustrations and I just don't like them. I.e Les Miserables, Decameron, etc. The covers at least had a modern look, which is not my thing.

>1 Gilded_Tomes1: I agree that the lack of modern quality or fine press editions with the Doré illustrations is notable, though somewhat unsurprising as Doré's style has been unfashionable for a while in the art set.

I collect editions of Dante in translation and I am not aware of any attractive non-antiquarian editions of the Divine Comedy with the Doré illustrations, apart from the Franklin Library editions translated by Ciardi. The Franklin Library special edition (part of the Oxford Library of the World's Great Books) is not bad, but is wildly overpriced, and you're paying mostly for the binding. The paper and printing quality is only okay, not to even mention the reproduction of the illustrations. If you are looking for something in the style of Easton Press, you can find the Franklin 100 Greatest version of this for much less, and the quality will probably be higher. (I haven't seen the illustrations in person for the Franklin 100 Greatest edition.)

I have no particular insight into Folio's decision making process, but a treatment reminiscent of their Gargantua & Pantagruel for Dante with Doré would be wonderful, in my opinion.

Not fine press, but Arcturus released an affordable edition of Paradise Lost with the Doré illustrations. There's a video review here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVj4eFb02PU

>4 abysswalker: I have the Franklin Library edition, and while Ciardi's translation is the best I've seen - bar none, and is the favorite among my book reading friends from my Princeton days, it does not contain all of Dore's illustrations, only some of them. I just hope that if Folio does choose to use Dore, that they don't make the book so enormous that I cannot read it in my lap. And, of course, print all of the illustrations. But I don't know if Folio is going to do so, as (at least from what I read in their website), they tend to use more modern illustrations, i.e. Rob Roy

>1 Gilded_Tomes1:
>6 Gilded_Tomes1:

If you can get past owning an edition with the Gustave Dore illustrations, another consideration would be:

The Divine Comedy (3 volumes), University of California Press, 1980.

This is a bilingual 3-volume slipcased set with an excellent verse translation by Allen Mandelbaum on the verso page and the original Italian language on the recto page. Each volume is illustrated with classical-themed pen and wash drawings by Barry Moser. This is the First Edition, Second Printing.

>7 dlphcoracl: The mandelbaum translation is not as accurate as the Ciardi translation. I don't mind paying thousands for books, but unless they are first edition, I don't buy used books.

I prefer illustrations by artists like Blake or Dore, or other classic artists. I'm just not into modern artwork, which is why I guess I've avoided buying Folio books.

>8 Gilded_Tomes1:

You are painting yourself into a corner.

If you are looking for fine & private press books with the perfect translation, with the perfect set of illustrations, with the perfect typeface, etc., etc., your options will be extremely limited or non-existent and you will have great difficulty in assembling a collection.

>9 dlphcoracl: Nope. Just looking for a good translation, and illustrations fitting of the classic feel, as it is classic literature. We'll see what Folio releases, and if it's good, then I'll buy it. If it's modern, that's cool, but other people can buy it.

>8 Gilded_Tomes1:
The reason Folio’s Gargantua is so universally respected is that it combines the best (in my opinion) translation and the best illustrations into a gorgeous package. No publisher has yet done that for the Divine Comedy, although Easton’s edition comes closest. Its only failing is the use of Cary’s translation that is not widely respected, and yet it has the very great virtue of containing a wealth of helpful notes so critical to understanding Dante’s numerous allusions to obscure persons and events. Easton would not be able to re-release its edition because it was limited to 400 which I’m sure sold out long ago.

>11 jroger1: jroger1 - Exactly that - beautifully said. Didn't know about the limitation number, for some reason I thought it was higher for the EP edition of the Divine Comedy. That explains the ridiculous prices on ebay. Let's hope the Folio edition follows this trajectory with a good translation (Ciardi) and the Dore illustrations!

>11 jroger1:

The translation by the Rev. Henry Francis Cary is indeed problematic as there are now several modern translations which are superior. The only reason to acquire this translation is, of course, the magnificent Nonesuch Press edition (La Divina Commedia) in the bright orange vellum binding, featuring the original engravings by Sandro Botticelli, flawlessly reproduced by the Atelier Jacomet in Paris.

>2 dlphcoracl: This looks wonderful - the illustrations!

From reading through old threads, it sounds like there were once UK and other European distributors for this, but it looks like Oak Knoll have all the stock now. The stock counter on their Biblio listing for the set shows 105 copies, though who can say how up-to-date that is. I know Oak Knoll have sales from time to time, and it's definitely one i'll be looking out for. Thanks for posting it!

>14 GardenOfForkingPaths:

Initially, there was a U.K. and/or European distributor for this edition and the prices were considerably less than currently being offered from Oak Knoll books. I purchased my set directly from this distributor shortly after this set was published.

The reason(s) it was my initial recommendation for Gilded_Tomes 1 is that it really touches all of the bases from a fine & private press collecting point of view. Specifically:

1. The modern Hollander translation is highly regarded and is the first choice of many readers.

2. The miniature illustrations by Monika Beisner are (imo) fabulous and are distinctive and unique. Additionally, they are perfectly placed throughout the text so that they really do enhance one's reading of The Divine Comedy.

3. The editions are beautifully crafted and slipcased by the Stamperia Valdonega, the little sister of the more famous Officina Bodoni. It is not letterpress but, because of the length of this work, I do not anticipate another letterpress edition being printed - unless it is by the Arion Press, and under new management, they are certainly not going in this direction.

The orange vellum edition with the original Italian next to it is beautiful. Many thanks for the recommendation. I just wish there were new editions published of it, or sealed copies. It's rare, but sometimes I find sealed copies of Franklin Library books even though they're over 40 years old. Let's just see what Folio comes out with. And who knows, even if they use a more contemporary artist with a classic feel (and a beautiful binding), then maybe I might just take the plunge and buy my very first Folio Society book!

>16 Gilded_Tomes1:

The Nonesuch Press edition is one of the most sought after of the illustrated twentieth century private press books, primarily for the flawless reproductions of the original Sandro Botticelli illustrations. However, it also features a wonderful handmade Van Gelder paper and the letterpress printing is excellent. The illustrations are exceptional because they were printed in collotype in sepia by Daniel Jacomet in Paris and the 34 double-page plates were carefully mounted on stubs so there could be no loss of the image in the gutters of the pages.

From a collector's point of view, here is what you need to know regarding the Nonesuch Press edition........

It is widely considered the most beautiful of the modern private press editions. However, it has not aged well and the vast majority of copies available on the secondary market will be flawed. It is near-impossible to find this in fine condition and quite difficult to acquire in near-fine condition, and you will pay dearly for it. That said, I would not collect this book in anything less than NF condition, i.e., either pay up for a highly collectible copy or skip it entirely. The common flaws the majority of copies will exhibit are:

1. Sun-fading and drying of the book spine.

2. Soiling of the bright orange vellum - it is a veritable dirt magnet.

3. Bowing of the front and rear binding covers. As the vellum ages it dries and shrinks, causing the boards underlying the vellum to curve and bow. Vellum over stiff boards, unless the boards are unusually thick and rigid, is a poor binding combination.

Clearly, collectors are willing to overlook the antiquated Cary translation for the other features described above.

>15 dlphcoracl: Thank you for the info. This edition seems to tick a lot of boxes. I saw the price of £295 in a couple of old threads. Perhaps Oak Knoll might oblige with a special offer for the big anniversary!

There is also this edition -
https://www.facsimilefinder.com/articles/la-divina-commedia-the-new-manuscript-e...

>19 wcarter: Thanks for this; I did see it before, but I don't like comics, or the comic style. It is very nice though, and I can appreciate the craftsmanship about it, especially with the nice materials

I'll put in another plug for the 1977 Franklin Library / Ciardi translation. You can find pristine copies on the market. It may not have all the Dore illustrations, but it's a beautiful volume and can be had at an affordable price.

>21 Betelgeuse: I have that edition. It's fantastic. Just need a version with all the Dore illustrations.

On another topic, is there a specific day when Folio releases new LE editions? Just wondering when we can expect the new LE release.

>22 Gilded_Tomes1:
LEs are released at totally random times without any warning.
Popular ones can sell out in a day or two after release.
Members of FSD watch for FS releases carefully, and the first information of a new LE release that is received is often a post on this forum.

>23 wcarter: Oh wow, LEs sold out in a day? Aren't they like between $500 and $1000? In your opinion, when do you anticipate the LE coming out? I'm just curious, as I want to be sure I buy it before it sells out (if it's a nice product of course).

Has anything besides Mort sold out in less than a day?

>24 Gilded_Tomes1: >25 kdweber:
I have absolutely no idea when the next LE will come out. Could be later today, could be in three months.
See the FSD Complete Booklist statistics for fastest selling FS books.
See https://wiki.librarything.com/index.php/Groups:BOOKS_PUBLISHED_BY_THE_FOLIO_SOCI...

>24 Gilded_Tomes1: it's mostly the sci-fi and fantasy LEs that sell out quickly. Most LEs in the past have taken years to sell out.

The highly regarded Gargantua & Pantagruel LE was released in February, 2019, and just finally sold out today (more than 2.5 years).

>27 abysswalker: Do you think Dante's work will follow the same trajectory, or do you think it's as popular as the sci-fi / fantasy works? I didn't even know Folio published fantasy books, I will have to check that out. Bahhh, the longer I stay in this forum, the more it seeks to convert me to the other side.

>28 Gilded_Tomes1: I'd wager that a Dante LE would take at least on the order of weeks rather than hours to sell out, and in all likelihood months or years. As >27 abysswalker: noted, the fast sellers are normally books that already have a popular cult following ready to jump on any nice edition that comes along (often sci-fi or fantasy). Classics can sell quickly if the edition is particularly nice and if there's pent-up demand for a fine edition, but even then we're talking much longer timescales than the real lightning sellers.

---

For a total Divine Comedy newbie, what do people think about the FS editions illustrated by Blake, Dali, and Did Paolo?

>29 ubiquitousuk: As well as the popularity of the work, the pricing & the quality/design of the edition play a large part. I have a feeling that a more traditional LE of Rob Roy would be a faster sell-out than the more unusual current edition (which seems to have had the side-effect of driving a lot of people to seek out the previous more traditionally styled non-LE edition).
Some books have a built-in audience that will always ensure a fast sell-out & these do tend to be SF/Fantasy which often has a very committed fan-base (as with the recent fast sell-outs for Dracula , Dick , King, Pratchett, Dune etc). FOMO (& fear of the secondary market) also comes into it -i note that the Rabelais seemed to be a slow & steady seller over a couple of years until the timer went onto it then it sold the last 50 copies in under a week.

>29 ubiquitousuk: Dore is the king, followed by Blake, Dali, and then Paolo in my opinion. The Dore illustratons for me are superior as they are engravings, and there are lots of them. The Blake paintings do a great job too, but are paintings and far fewer.

Botticelli made at least 88 beautiful drawings on vellum for the Divine Comedy in the 1480s which although unfinished are very beautiful and worth seeking out.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Botticelli-Treasures-Hamilton-Collection-Stephanie/dp/1...

The ones for Paradiso are strangely stylised and quite modern-looking, with lots of white space and little flames representing souls in geometric patterns. I imagine Dore must have seen them.

>29 ubiquitousuk: my sense is that Blake is divisive. It took me a while to warm up to his style, but now I find his work amazing, to the degree that he's on my short list of book collection foci. Even so, he's not my favorite Divine Comedy illustrator (his work does better for Paradise Lost or his own idiosyncratic works such as Jerusalem or Songs of Innocence and Experience). Also the Folio Society edition that uses his illustrations is a bit intimidating in size and aspect. It also doesn't quite read as a "fine" book, more like something adjacent to a deluxe coffee table art book. It's still good (I have the Faust and Jerusalem volumes Folio did with a similar treatment), but maybe not what I would initially recommend to a Divine Comedy newbie.

>32 red_guy: wow. thanks for this!

A short video about a Dante facsimile from the Vatican Library:

https://youtu.be/QIOEutbZ5D8

This is a beautiful facsimile if you could track it down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIOEutbZ5D8

Danny that is indeed special.

Where is this facsimile available for sale? Did they only produce one copy of it?

>36 d-b: >38 Gilded_Tomes1:
The website link on the video states they have one available. There is a contact button for price/info. I believe it's one of those things where if you have to ask the price, you're not going to be pleasantly surprised. Anyone willing to try?

If you google Dante Urbinate you can also find several sellers of the facsimile, from what I've seen in the area of 3600-3800 Euros.

>40 SF-72: Why would they only make 1 copy?

>41 Gilded_Tomes1: They made 1990 copies, this company has one of these copies for sale.

>39 BionicJim: They made 1990 of them so not particularly hard to track down if you have a few thousand euros in your pocket.

>41 Gilded_Tomes1:

As antinous_in_london wrote, it's a limited edition facsimile, so there is more than one copy. But facsimiles tend to be rather expensive.

>44 SF-72: The going rate seems to be around £1700 - £2500 depending on condition & location (for additional taxes/shipping etc)

>45 antinous_in_london: Do you know how much it was when it was first released?

It has been reprinted recently - this might be a bit more expensive than finding the older facsimile.

https://www.danteurbinate.it/en

>47 d-b: This is incredible. Do you think Folio's version will be something similar? Have they done medieval facsimiles like this in the past?

>48 Gilded_Tomes1:
The FS did a lot of facsimiles in the period from 2001 to 2010. The most extravagant was the Lutterel Psalter. See https://www.librarything.com/topic/298837

The chances of them doing more Meieval facsimiles in the future are very slim, and something like the Dante Urbinate are zero as this costs many thousands of Euro.

>49 wcarter: That book is stunning! I didn't know Folio did medieval facsimiles. I do hope they do something at least like the Psalter; what a beautiful book!

>50 Gilded_Tomes1:
They won’t!

>51 wcarter: That's a shame :-( So will the Dante book be more of a modern version? Like the Rob Roy book that came out?

So they finally released the Divine Comedy DLE. Any thoughts on the value of it?

I’m glad Folio’s doing this, but in design terms it’s a bit over the top for my taste. I gave up looking for a Nonesuch or LEC (Officina Bodoni) Div. Com. some time ago and settled for a Fine copy of the Washington Square Press version with facing Italian, three volumes slipcased and with onion skin wrappers for 40 USD plus shipping. It’s saving me money every day by stopping a more extravagant purchase!

£700 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yikes :-(

Luckily for me it doesn't appeal - for one thing too small for my liking. I think I'd rather spend my money on the existing silk bound editions - I remember one volume being in an early sale for only £19 - I thought Folio had made a pricing error so didn't buy it !

Updated: 15/10/2021

Arrived this morning after I finally ordered it yesterday! After much reconsideration I decided I would probably like the illustrations after all.
Also thought I couldn't lose given the way LE prices have been going.
Now it's here I can say that the whole production is simply superb. Glad you folks talked me into this one - despite the price:-)

Re Packing: no way this will get damaged in the post however the way the box
opens is slightly silly - there should have been instructions to avoid lots of Infernos dropping onto the floor! (Even thinking I knew exactly how the box worked Inferno still fell out onto the table but luckily quite gently) I really look forward to reading these volumes ... but will definitely wear white cotton gloves!

And the prints will be framed ... probably as a group.

Yeah, the price is a bit over the top, but the illustrations just aren't meriting that kind of money. This would be collecting for collecting's sake. And thank you for pointing out the size and quality of it. I also don't understand why they got someone with a creative writing background with no connection to dante scholarship to write the introduction. Shouldn't they have gotten a proper Dante scholar instead?

>56 Gilded_Tomes1: I was wondering that myself. Does anyone know whom this person is? She won the Pulitzer and wrote a novel in Italian.

>56 Gilded_Tomes1:

Without checking the evidence, I've a feeling that Folio's way of working these days has moved toward commissioning introductions from creative artists whose strongest suit for the job in hand is to make a case for the relevance of a classic work to the modern reader and/or to reflect on its importance to them personally. It's not an approach I tend to agree with, not least on grounds that anyone buying a book can fairly be expected already to have an interest in its contents: but perhaps it works commercially, sometimes even selling some books on the strength of the introducer's reputation. In this instance though it does appear that each volume also benefits from a more scholarly introduction from George Holmes.

>54 GusLogan: wrote: "I gave up looking for a Nonesuch or LEC (Officina Bodoni) Div. Com. ..."

It might be worth noting that for some reason the LEC Divine Comedy remains quite affordable on the secondary market. At the moment, there are three copies on ebay (no relation to any listings) that look to be in good shape for $150 USD or less, and all have best offer enabled. I'm sure the situation is similar on Abe.

This edition does not use the best translation (though it is an historically important translation), and it is not illustrated, but it was designed by Mardersteig (my favorite printer and book designer) and printed under his oversight on an all-rag mould-made paper from Cartierre de San Marco. (Though the colophon of the LEC edition states "at the Officina Bodoni" Mardersteig does not include it in his own catalogue raisonné, which only includes books done on the hand press.)

I think part of this state of affairs is that the slipcase is often missing, but I wouldn't trouble about that. Even if present and whole, the slipcase is usually pretty fragile and the book itself is quite sturdy.

>59 abysswalker:

The LEC Dante is gorgeous and affordable, but I am slo not a huge fan of the translation. My go-to is the Moser Penyroyal Press Dante with the Mandelbaum translation.

>59 abysswalker:
I’m grateful for your effort, but it’s like an impossible trinity or something - I’d pay 150 USD for a Fine copy in a slipcase with the Monthly Letter or 100 USD for a NF copy with either, but given the shipping cost to Europe I wouldn’t pay 100 for a copy described as VG with neither. Abebooks actually worse than eBay just at this point in time for this book.

The Kirkpatrick translation is superior to the Mandelbaum in every respect, according to specialists in Dante studies. I took classes in it for my electives back in my uni days. So in this regard, Folio did an excellent job with the tranlsation selection. However, that translation does usually come with the adjoining original Italian, but from what I can see in the photos, this Folio edition doesn't include it.

I really really was hoping this edition would be the version to get me to jump on the Folio bandwagon and start collecting these books. There seems to be a passionate fanbase here, but I'm just not entirely convinced. I also think the pricepoint is exceptionally high for what you get. Maybe Folio is hurting for money, and those ramping up the prices to make up for it.

>62 Gilded_Tomes1: However, that translation does usually come with the adjoining original Italian, but from what I can see in the photos, this Folio edition doesn't include it.

Goodness, you're right: that quenches any desire I might have had for this publication at any price, since the translation would only appeal to me as a crib.

>63 terebinth: I'm glad I'm not the only one! :-)

I'd rather the Edizioni Valdonega version.

Don't forget that this edition is due out soon in several different formats, most at a fraction of the FS price.
See here.

For one, I'm very glad FS didn't go with the Dan Brown translation. I read his "Inferno" and must say he isn't close AT ALL to the original text.

>67 PartTimeBookAddict: I see what you did there :)

>67 PartTimeBookAddict:
Just as accurate as his Da Vinci Code.

>66 wcarter: This looks great but I have been unsure about it and have been humming and hawing over it for months. The Anniversary Edition would have been more my price point but the Collectors Edition seems such a step up compared to it. Not many left so it may be one I will regret.

>57 ironjaw: Lahiri began her writing career as an accomplished and prize-winning short story writer; although she grew up in UK / US, she is married to an Italian and has lived there for many years I believe. Her recent projects have included editing the Penguin Anthology of Italian Short Stories, as well as exploring the phenomenon of translation via the novel you mention. She learned Italian and originally wrote the book in it, after it was published in Italy she translated it herself for English publication. She has since (earlier this year in fact) written a more "standard" novel in English but set in Italy.

So no, not a Dante scholar (although there are separate scholarly essays for each volume) but certainly a well-known literary name with I think a credible link to the overall milieu of Italian writing. Her presence seems much like that of Karl Ove Knausgard as introducer of the Bovary LE: not someone with an explicit connection to the writer or work, but a "big name" who in some way it makes sense to have associated, and to provide additional profile and interest in the edition. Whether that's a valid strategy I guess readers must decide - in this case, Lahiri ("who is she?") doesn't seem to have had the desired effect on you!

>66 wcarter: I have a good friend who heads up a university Italian department and is a Dante specialist; I shared the link for this with him and after commenting, he in turn shared the Cochrane version. An impressive venture.

>71 ian_curtin: thank you for enlightening me

>56 Gilded_Tomes1: The guy who wrote the book had a creative writing background, so I’d rather hear the opinion of someone who understands the art, than the opinion of an artless scholar.

>66 wcarter: I'm confused by the referent for "this edition" in your comment since the Cochrane version is quite different both from the topic of the original post and the recent Folio Society LE.

(It also uses a prose translation, by Singleton.)

>75 abysswalker:
Cochrane has done two hand lettered editions. Inferno for Thornwillow and the full Divine Comedy for Facsimile Finder, which is the one I referenced.

>76 wcarter: Thanks for this friend. The one I saw on facsimile finder is so much better, and not too far off from the FS price. I would much rather have the medieval style version, and am contemplating just buying it.

I didn't spend to much time looking at this because it's an automatic pass since I don't have budget to spend on a fourth edition of Dante.

But I do love the block-edge printing mostly because you don't see it much anymore.

And I would also love to read the Introduction. There is plenty of scholarly work out there. I do like to hear from writers and other people how a book affects them, and I really liked Lahiri's book Interpreter of Maladies.

>78 jveezer: The introduction isn't by a Dante scholar. It's by a writer with no connection to him whatsoever, which is something many on this chat forum have been scratching their heads over.

>79 Gilded_Tomes1: From the website: "Pulitzer Prize-winning author Jhumpa Lahiri, who has a doctorate in Renaissance Studies and now writes her novels in Italian, has contributed a specially commissioned introductory essay ‘Thirty-three thoughts on Dante’. Exquisitely written in 33 passages, mirroring the cantos, her thoughts range from film to numerology in an entertaining and absorbing piece."

That doesn't quite equate to "no connection with him whatsoever," at least in my mind, but even if it did, so what? There are additionally individual introductions to each volume by an academic. It's clearly not intended to be a scholarly edition.

>80 ian_curtin: She wrote the piece for the Dante work. She has no previous background on Dante, or publication history associated with Dante. Again, a silly choice for them. Her having a pulitzer prize for her novel that speaks to her own experiences is used as marketing. There are so many other candidates that would have been more suitable.

Folio, from what I've read, used to be more precise with their choices. They once got Alistair Fowler to provide the commentary for their edition of Paradise Lost. But I cannot seem to find a version of it on their website for sale.

>81 Gilded_Tomes1: They once got Alistair Fowler to provide the commentary for their edition of Paradise Lost.

That wasn't a Folio commission, they just obtained the rights to reprint the work already available from Routledge: an exceptional commentary running to 335 large format pages in the Folio edition. The last copies were cleared in, if memory serves, a half price sale, which was when I bought mine. I'd been put off rather by the format, as using the commentary requires having two very large volumes open on the desk at the same time.

>79 Gilded_Tomes1: Yes, I know. Dante is not for the scholars, he's for everyone. That's why he wrote in Italian instead of Latin. Again, the thoughts of any writer I admire are welcome in an introduction.

I have plenty of scholarly criticism and if I want more I can pay equally exorbitant prices for textbooks. I'm glad to be far enough out of grad-school that I don't pay those prices anymore for what are often very poorly made and POD books.

>83 jveezer: They don't have to be a scholar, but should have some actual connection to Dante. For example, it makes no sense to get Margaret Atwood to write the introduction to Marvel Comics, but it makes perfect sense to have her write the introduction to a new edition of Orwell's 1984, given that she is an acclaimed writer of dystopian novels.

>84 Gilded_Tomes1: Well, depends on which Marvel Comics - her comics Angel Catbird came out from Dark Horse but there are comics at Marvel which can be called related in some ways so a book of them can get an introduction from her with no issues... :) If you look deep enough, there are surprising connections.

>85 AnnieMod: You can see connections anywhere if that is what you're looking for. But in this case, it was a stupid call on Folio's part, and one of the reasons I opted to go for the Facsimile finder edition that was almost double the price as Folio. Thanks again wcarter for the recommendation. I think it was him or maybe the other moderator! lol

On a side note, how often do Folio bring back editions? Tht Paradise Lost edition does look very nice.

>86 Gilded_Tomes1:

Some books stay in the catalogue for decades, just going out of stock every now and then: others reappear after a year or five or twenty, with a changed binding becoming more likely the longer they're gone; many others sell out and never come back. Books that end up heavily discounted, like the two volume Paradise Lost, don't often get reprinted, but there are exceptions, such as Master and Margarita recently. Personally I doubt the two volume set will be back, but it was Folio's third version of Paradise Lost with gaps of only about a dozen years between them - the previous versions were illustrated by Ian Pollock, a FS commission, and by Blake - so I'd not be surprised if a fourth presentation of the poem appears, or a previous one is reissued, by say 2030. I don't think it will be the Pollock (which I love): one possibility is the John Martin volume returning without the huge commentary. Perhaps more likely still, they haven't offered Doré yet...

>86 Gilded_Tomes1:
Go start your own publishing company and do it differently with all your smart calls….

Edit: What I really meant to say was, your posts brought to mind a quote from Alliser Thorne: “Do you know what leadership means … ? It means that the person in charge gets second-guessed by every clever little t*** with a mouth.”

>88 Tom9019: Wow, that is really disgusting. And funny, because you're probably going to be deleted off this website for that sexist comment. Bye bye troll!

>87 terebinth: Thank you soooo much for this! Wouldn't that be wonderful if they produced the Dore illustrated version of Paradise Lost? I would so buy that.

>81 Gilded_Tomes1: "She has no previous background on Dante, or publication history associated with Dante."

Not that this is the cast-iron, immutable prerequisite you seem to think it is, but at even a cursory check:

https://fit.princeton.edu/%E2%80%9CThe%20Women%20of%20Dante%E2%80%99s%20Divine%2...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7oMO7bKtfc

Hmm.

>91 ian_curtin: We found one link! Hooray

Maybe, it's a financial issue. Maybe eminent and seasoned Dante scholars charge too much in commission compared to newer counterparts?

>92 ironjaw: Two in fact, just the most relevant from many :)

Perhaps it is down to cost, although I would have thought the fee for a well-known literary name (with a relevant academic track record as well!) would not be peanuts (and at £700 a book I would doubt it).

>89 Gilded_Tomes1:
You whining about their choice of introduction is disgusting. I don’t know why I was flagged. I guess quoting characters from famous lit is only allowed when the language used isn’t colorful. I should expect nothing less from LT. Go on, flag this post, and keep droning every single folio release about all the awful choices FS makes.

>94 Tom9019: It's possible to disagree with someone without being so rude about it.

Why don't we just wait and see when the essay/introduction comes out before we get our pitchforks and criticize Ms. Lahiri. Some of the best introductions I've read have little affiliation with the said author/subject and some of the worst are by 'masters' on the subject who teach at Yale/Harvard/Cambridge/Oxford. I don't remember anyone complaining that Karl Ove Knausgaard wrote the introduction for Madam Bovary and correct me if I'm wrong but his sole credential on the subject is that he thoroughly enjoys the book. So lets give Ms. Lahiri a chance and if her introduction is trash then we can treat it as such but it's quite unfair to be so critical of someone with no basis whatsoever. My personal experience is that Folio has quite good introductions and I would be surprised if The Divine Comedy's introduction is anything but superb.

>94 Tom9019: I don’t know why I was flagged.

Probably for the most usual reason, violating the site's terms and conditions.

"LibraryThing prohibits all personal attacks on members. As Wikipedia's policy states, "Comment on content, not on the contributor."... Personal attacks include name-calling. Name-calling is not restricted to pure insults (e.g., "asshole"), but also ones that imply both a personal and a content problem (e.g., "liar," "Nazi")."

Embarking on personal hostility is the problem, not the colourful language of the quote you use to do it.

>96 Joshbooks1: Hear, hear!

He/she was being quite rude by my standard. I was merely matching toe-to-toe rather than let the bully run rampant. But okay, while I thought my original comment was actually productive, these (and this one) are not, so I’ll stop now..

>99 Tom9019: so I’ll stop now.

I think that's a wise and considerate decision.

>92 ironjaw: Yeah I agree with you Ian. Just one link, and she is listed as a creative writing specialist. It's a far stretch here. And no, Dante scholars would be more than happy to do it for nominal fees, I once took a class from a Dante specialist as a visiting student at Yale one summer. He even did interviews and intros for academic books for free. Folio just wanted to choose her for some weird reason, rather than an expert. Doesn't matter, that stupid move, combined with the silly size of the books and ridiculous pricing prevented me from jumping into the Folio world... at least for now

>101 Gilded_Tomes1: Price isn’t ridiculous to me whatsoever. I would have paid more. And I’m extremely pleased they didn’t choose a scholar to introduce Dante. As was stated before me above, there is plenty of scholarly work already. I think it was a brilliant move, not stupid at all. I also don’t think the size is silly, I think it is perfect. Just perfect.

Fairly priced for what you get. Of course I would have preferred paying less, but this release definitely screams quality all around.

I’m definitely interested.

Edit : And I absolutely love the smaller size. Way better handling than oversized books.

Out my price range right now, but totally worth it in my opinion. Actually, the best selling poor for me is the size!

I love the design and the smaller size especially after just finishing east of eden. The larger sizes can require some tactical positions after reading for an hour or so. I also am very glad they didn’t go with a Dante expert to provide another pastiche offering. Again personal preference will ensure that it’s never the perfect book for all but this is at least ticking a lot of boxes for most it looks like which is great.

>96 Joshbooks1:

'Why don't we just wait and see when the essay/introduction comes out before we get our pitchforks and criticize Ms. Lahiri.'

Hear, hear.

>106 Cat_of_Ulthar: But then that won't be the Folio Devotee's group ;)

>107 AnnieMod:

Historically, quite correct ;)

>108 folio_books: >107 AnnieMod:

Absolutely, we need a bit of banter*

*when trying to type banter, autocorrect replaced it with "anger" :o)

>107 AnnieMod:, >108 folio_books:

'But then that won't be the Folio Devotee's group ;)'

True enough, but the attacks seem to be based on very little actual information. And we are ignoring the introductions by George Holmes for some reason. Has anybody any thoughts on those? They have at least been published before now.

>110 Cat_of_Ulthar: When had we needed any information at all before someone starts complaining about anything related to Folio? :)

>111 AnnieMod:

'When had we needed any information at all before someone starts complaining about anything related to Folio? :)'

lol, you've got me there :-)

>109 ironjaw: *when trying to type banter, autocorrect replaced it with "anger" :o)

Not only ironic but uncomfortably apt in the current situation. There's a lot of it about.

>110 Cat_of_Ulthar: True enough, but the attacks seem to be based on very little actual information.

The way I'm reading it, the attacks are largely confined to one source.

>92 ironjaw: I'd think a Pulitzer- and PEN- winning, Booker-finalist novelist would charge a lot more than any seasoned scholar.

>101 Gilded_Tomes1: "Just one link, and she is listed as a creative writing specialist"
Well, a single google search or just one link to, say, the wiki page stating the fact that she's a Pulitzer-winning Booker finalist should establish pretty firmly that she deserves to be called a creative writing specialist more than 99% of creative writing specialists out there.

I'm definitely in the camp of those who'd much prefer a well-regarded author with deep connections and love of Italy, the Italian language, and Dante, who went into trouble to write her piece in the form of 33 passages mirroring the cantos - a wonderful, most apropos approach, to a scholarly introduction - IF IT WERE A MATTER OF CHOICE BETWEEN THE TWO. However, I don't get what the whole tempest in a teapot is all about: in addition to Lahiri's introduction, FS also included essays and introductions to all 3 books by a respected academic - George Holmes.

>113 folio_books: Yes, I've noticed someone Bob-ing about ...

>115 red_guy: Yes, I've noticed someone Bob-ing about ...

Yes. It has defnitely been noticed.

>115 red_guy: Glad I’m not the only one who noticed. And it’s not only in this thread.

>115 red_guy: And it was thereafter known to all as Bob-ing :)

>115 red_guy:
>116 folio_books:
>117 Nerevarine:
>118 assemblyman:

I’ve definitely noticed too.

>119 Tom9019: Yes, I'll bet you have!

I thought of messaging you this afternoon with my suspicions, but wasn't quite sure how to do it.

>118 assemblyman: More properly Bob_ing, I think.

>119 Tom9019: the join date is about right as well.

I also thought of the bob reader but didn’t want to sound too suspicious but it really did have the same vibe.

>123 Tom9019: it's not you.

>124 abysswalker:
I realized after rereading some of the above I was likely wrong which made my response quite asinine, deleted for that reason. Somewhat related to the original post about Dante, I have the large format Milton and Goethe with the silk boards, not the Dante set of three, were those the only 5 books bound in that way?

>125 Tom9019:
In addition to your 5, there are three more: Apocrypha, Jerusalem, and Walden.

Btw, a pretty good way to check series of 5 or more books is to look here:
https://www.librarything.com/topic/288021
The list might not be updated regularly and might not have the latest, but should be useful nevertheless.

>126 elladan0891: very useful, thanks. I’m surprised Walden is in that group. Curious.

Honestly, I prefer a contemporary non-Dante specialist author writing about his musings, thoughts, feelings about the cantos rather than the same being done by a specialist. A specialist is better suited for a guide/commentary. So, this edition seems to offer both which makes it even more attractive for me.

On another note, for people looking for a good "Dante book", I can recommended John Tooke's "Dante", from Princeton University Press.

>128 hiclik: I've been following the "who should write the introduction" thread with interest. It sounds like FS made an excellent choice for the Dante introduction, a literary artist who has serious scholarly qualifications. Even without the scholarly qualifications, she'd probably be a great choice. But I also make a distinction between a book like the Commedia, the themes and contexts of which are at least basically known by readers who would buy such a volume, and a book like Petrarch's De remediis utriusque fortunae (published by Foolscap press using Thomas Twyne's 1579 translation, Phisicke Against Fortune). The vast majority of modern readers will have almost no familiarity with the themes and contexts that inform De remediis, or the provenance of its Elizabethan translation. In a case like that, I think, the press probably should go with an informative scholarly introduction rather than a creative writing one. (Foolscap did so.)

Can’t we all agree it should’ve been Stephen Fry! 😂

For those who might be interested in a book length introduction to The Comedy (the "Divine" bit was added by others long after the original was published), I suggest "Reading Dante" by Prue Shaw. The book is scholarly, but also an entertaining good read in itself.

Reading all this is just making me more impatient for October! I am getting quite excited now.
They should release some Wilde, with Stephen Fry doing the introduction, although I expect that has already happened.

>60 MobyRichard: I don't think there was ever (afaik) a Pennyroyal edition of the Divine Comedy. There is the UCP edition, but this is not the same as Pennyroyal. IIRC, I think Moser was not very satisfied with his work on the Divine Comedy so he didn't want to publish it as part of the Pennyroyal imprint.

Btw I haven't seen the Grossman edition mentioned in this thread. I'd be curious to hear about the quality of the Bergin translation as I'm a fan of Baskin, so this edition would be right up my alley.

>133 filox:

Yeah, you caught me :p. I typed Pennyroyal for brand recognition purposes and b/c it's strongly associated with Moser. In my defense, there exists an imaginary limited edition which the Moser trade editions clearly advertise but which the world of real materials stubbornly refuses to bring into being.

I wonder if Moser did have regrets later...he seems pretty happy about his work in the afterwords to the trade editions.

>134 Gilded_Tomes1: Wow, this forum got a bit intense. I may not be a Folio fan, but it's great to see fellow booklovers on here challenging bullies.

Unfortunately our past troll experience has contributed to the introduction of a purgatory stage. You have nothing to worry about however... the crowd here is extremely fast and apt on spotting outliers. But for a while you are stuck in a Schrodinger cat's zone. You are both a troll and not a troll.

>135 filox: wrote: "I haven't seen the Grossman edition mentioned in this thread. I'd be curious to hear about the quality of the Bergin translation as I'm a fan of Baskin, so this edition would be right up my alley."

I have a copy and will share a few thoughts and pictures below. It's not Folio, so apologies in advance for going slightly off-topic.

First, a few words. The set is huge and bulky. Up there with the largest sets I own, which includes the LEC Faerie Queene and the Folio Society Gargantua & Pantagruel LE. One of the photos below is a shelfie that includes several of the Letterpress Shakespeare volumes for comparison.

The books themselves are in the spirit of Ben Shiff's later LEC volumes. The binding is restrained in demeanor. The printing, by Mardersteig's Stamperia Valdonega, is beautifully accomplished, letterpress (of course) on a laid paper, probably of Italian origin, though I don't see a credit for the paper.

I like the translation. A few of the photos below include the full canto 25, so you can evaluate one of the poems in full.

I find Baskin's illustrations less successful. They are plentiful, and have an expressionistic character that sometimes works well, but also lack the gravitas to stand up to the text or typography. The blacks are not deep enough, the lines are too sketchy, and the overall feeling is too "modern gallery" for me. Additionally, Baskin picked out particular characters for his subjects rather than depicting scenes, which means that the art doesn't capture the simultaneously expansive but oppressive depths of hell presented by the verse. The image accompanying canto 25 below is, in my opinion, one of the more successful. I think the sketchy expressionistic character could have worked better in a smaller form factor or as inline illustrations with floated text layout.

Despite that criticism, it is a wonderful set that I will probably never part with. Baskin might not be my first choice of illustrator, but the set solidly ticks two of my collector's preference boxes: Mardersteig printing and Dante.



















(You can click through to higher-resolution images on the hosting site if curious.)

>139 abysswalker:
Lovely. This is why I come here! Mustn’t buy it, though. No… space…

Wow, I think this edition looks magnificent!
BUT, cost for us in the USA is $1095... yeah, that's a LOT of money.
I wouldn't mind re-reading this edition of La Divina Comedia, I heard Kirkpatrick's translation is wonderful. The last time I read the entire Comedy was the Dore edition, and although the illustrations are iconic, the translation I thought was a bit stale. I also love how the FS really did such a beautiful job with everything, including small touches like the fore-edge illustrations (words)



Overall, considering everything the price is arguably not terrible, but it's still a LOT!
Now if it was letterpress, I would imagine this would end up as one of the greatest fine press editions of Dante of all time... BUT it's not letterpress, and I'm sure letterpress would have cost 3-4 times more. Still, I can't but feel a bit sad about it.

>139 abysswalker: Thanks a lot for the images and the writeup! The frontispiece is absolutely gorgeous (and is what got me interested in the book in the first place), but I do agree that the later images are too 'light' for this text. I still think it looks amazing, will keep an eye out for a nice copy. How did the slipcase hold up? The copies I see online all seem to have the slipcase pretty beaten up.

An email in today from FS, marking the date of Dante's death in Ravenna - they mention that "over a third" of the 700 have sold. Quicker progress than I would have anticipated, given the price.

>142 filox: the books are quite heavy, and the slipcase doesn't quite have the physical integrity to stand up to the weight if it is shifting around. That said, my slipcase is in pretty good shape and has done a good job of protecting the books so far. The slipcase itself retains its integrity (there are no cardboard cracks between surfaces), but as you can probably see in the shelfie picture, some of the paper covering the cardboard has separated, just around the corners.

>128 hiclik:
>131 amp123:

Thanks for the recommendations...! My own introduction to the world of the Commedia before embarking on the poem itself was Dante in Love by A N Wilson. I enjoy Wilson's style in his other non-fiction works, but I'd be interested in a comparison. Prue Shaw scores higher in Goodreads (for what that's worth...)

Just received an email from Taschen this morning advertising their edition of " William Blake. Dante’s ‘Divine Comedy’. The Complete Drawings" Reduced from €100 to €30.

https://www.taschen.com/pages/en/catalogue/art/all/44308/facts.william_blake_dan...

>146 N11284: Thanks for sharing. Technically it sounds like the reduced price is on a new edition, with the previous one being more expensive. Know if any changes they made that might have dropped the price?

>146 N11284: that's terribly deceptive marketing by Taschen. The original price is not 'reduced' at all, you certainly do not 'save' £70 as the Taschen website claims. The price of this 'new' edition may be £70 less than the original, but the new edition is hugely reduced in size, only 24cm tall when the original edition is 46cm tall, not remotely comparable. Shame on Taschen, they're clearly trying to dupe customers that this is some sort of bargain when it's not.

>148 cronshaw: Thanks for that. After I posted I checked the size - I'm still working in old money - and had to convert to inches, only approx 6.5 by 9.5 inches. As you note very small.

>148 cronshaw: Taschen uses this approach all the time, starting out with an expensive oversized volume and then selling ever smaller editions for less money. I think it's a good idea because they hit different price points and different size needs but they should be more transparent about the difference.

A timely subject! A few days ago, I received a copy of Taschen's large format edition for £90. Although it has been out of print for a while, there are a couple of sellers in the UK who seem to still have stock. I bought from a seller on eBay called Smeikal books. No affiliation with the seller, of course, but so far so good.

I haven't had a chance to open the book and have a look through, but the protective box was sealed in shrink-wrap, as is the book itself. Looks to be an impressive production!

>146 N11284: I just looked at the Taschen ad in this mornings email and what I received doesn't mention a price reduction, just the $40 price.

>152 kdweber: >146 N11284: That's very strange as I received the same email this morning and it clearly did say it was a sale price with the reduction showing and the original price struck off in the picture but when I look at it now it just shows only the price of €30. Clearly some manipulation there.

Strange indeed. Here is a screen grab of what I see.

>153 assemblyman: >154 N11284: Maybe it's a UK vs USA issue?

The US $40 is down from $150 for a $110 savings is what it tells me.