Coursera Fantasy and Science Fiction discussion thread

Hi everyone! I think there are a few LibraryThingers who are taking the Fantasy and Science Fiction course from coursera, and the discussion forum there seems to be splitting off into location-specific groups. I thought I'd start up a group that is location-specific to LibraryThing. ;) Anybody else is welcome to join in whatever discussion happens on this thread, of course!

Some of you have probably already seen this from my other threads, but I thought I'd repost in case anyone new joins. I have a blog summarizing what I've read about the Grimm's brother's tales so far:

RACHEL'S BLOG

Since I wrote that, I found out that I listed only 3 of the 4 critique strategies that are generally applied. The four are Freudian, Jungian, Marxist, and Feminist. (I missed Jungian.)

I'll also repost the information that I've found on the web:

The New Yorker Article

The Guardian article

and the BBC Show that I haven't listened to yet

Something interesting I noticed is that the New Yorker article (by chance?) referred to the same fairy tale that A. S. Byatt mentioned in her 2004 Guardian article. The New Yorker article also included pretty much the same information (though less detailed) as Elizabeth Dalton did in her introduction to the Barnes and Noble edition. Hmmmm....

I have a strong dislike for Freud, but I did my capstone university project on the Grimm brothers.  In German.  They were actually the reason I majored in German, but alas, I was fed round after round of WWII and related literature. :(

Interpretations to these stories are always fun to read.  I had an excerpt from someone who looked deeply into they symbolism behind "Little Red Riding Hood", right down to why she was wearing red.  We were asked to analyze this piece, and I was happy to not be the only one who knew that the "original riding hood" was most likely brown, not red.

As for sexism, I'm pretty rigid.  I'm watching Star Trek (The Original Series) with my husband, and there's plenty of cringe-worthy material in every other episode.  "Well, it was the 60s," many may say, "What do you expect?"  Personally, I suspect that people in the 60s said something similar in reference to previous generations of media, and I expect future generations to say something similar about us and our lack of female representation and racial differentiation in "modern" media.

Haha, I like your little tidbit about the "red" analysis. It doesn't hurt people to analyze what THEY get out of the story...but we tend to shine a modern light on our analyses, certainly (as I suggested in my comments on the New Yorker article in my blog). I also agree that no matter how politically correct we are, the next generation will cringe. :)

ETA: I also have a strong dislike for Freud. Jung's a LITTLE better. ;)

I also found an eager blogger who's writing about lots of the stories here: http://courserafantasy.blogspot.com/

I just joined this group because I wanted to connect with this thread. I am also signed up for the Coursera: Fantasy and Science Fiction Course. Almost finished the Household Tales - just in time for tomorrow!

Ha! I'm still working on it. I'll finish over the weekend, hopefully. I feel like I've read it after finishing that larger book of tales (Barnes and Noble edition)...but the tales in the Crane translation are slightly different! It's actually pretty interesting...

Hi,
interesting that you say that. This is the first time that I read a complete Edition of an English translation, aside from some picture books with specific stories. I do own different Editions in German, one of them a 1890 Edition. I found the choice of stories very odd and also found some (one major) minor translation mistakes. I also found that they changed the characters in one story completely. That story is "The wolf and the seven goats" this one comes in the Lucy Crane translation as "The wolf and the seven goslings". You may noticed that in that story the goose "bleaks" and the goslings take the "paw" of the wolf for their mother's "wing". I am still on nightshift for another 2 nights, so I can not work on my essay until than, as I usually do 13 hours shifts (sometimes longer). I also hope that my friend will be back from holliday until then, because she is for whatever courses I usually do my "grammar checker". :)

Yeah, that goats -> goslings error was pointed out on the forum, I think. :)

If you need a grammar checker and your friend can't do it for some reason, you can ask me.

Yea! I've finished the fairy tales and written what I assume will be my final draft of my essay. But I'll hang on to it until closer to the due date just in case I come up with some new ideas to fit in. Keeping it down to 320 words was hard!

My essay is on the sexist treatment of men in the Grimm's tales. ;)

ETA: I've got the Norton Critical Edition of Alice and Wonderland. :D

I have written my first draft this morning during my break.

My essay looks at the female protagonist. I look at the religious influence in the way the characters are portrait :) I was considering the sexist treatment as well, but decided than on the religious angle. I initial also considered the use of violence in the stories, but I never could put that into a max of 320 words. It's already difficult enough as it is to bring your point accross by having so few words.

I published something in the forum on the goslings and also corrected a translation mistake which does give the story ending a different perspective.

Thanks for the offer on the grammar checking - I might even take you up on it :).

I am using all the suggested and supplied reading editions. I have started last night on Alice in Wonderland. I read it donkey years ago - so now I will read it a bit more careful.

Household Stories by the Brothers Grimm were hard for me to keep track of. I could only read half until I got unable to keep track of them all.

I'm going on a retreat this afternoon and won't be back until the 9th, so I'll miss Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking-Glass and have to hit Dracula really fast.

My essay if anyone is curious:

Scheming is a recurring theme in the Grimms' tales. One or more characters scheme to get something they want. The scheme is where the supernatural, unusual, or fantastic element comes in - something that does not reflect the reader's mundane reality. Aschenputten's scheme to go to the fair relies on her the supernatural intervention of birds. The witch's scheme to eat Hansel and Grethel relies on her fantastic house. The anomalous element of reality that various characters manipulate or utilize is both dangerous and advantageous. The witch's oven is both her means of support and her deathbed. The white snake that the king's servant eats is both dangerously prohibited and life-saving ("The White Snake").

The scheme, which relies on pulling together very specific elements, either fails or succeeds. The bird who schemes to make less work for himself ends up causing death ("The Mouse, the Bird, and the Sausage"). The tailor who schemes to enjoy the reputation of a valorous warrior succeeds, not through strength but luck and craftiness ("The Gallant Tailor"). The cock and hen who want free transportation and shelter succeed because they utilize the pin, needle, and duck in just the right way ("The Vagabonds"). For successful characters, their agency and luck makes things come together in a puzzle-like way so their scheme succeeds. For others, such as stepmothers, their own flaws or bad luck cause their demise.

These stories stay in our minds because of our fascination with the unusual or anomalous and how we are to live in the context of, to make sense of, a radically different world. These anomalies can be technological or fantastic. They can also be supernatural, which not only the Grimm brothers deal with but religion also. This simultaneous empowerment, fear, and danger is not only in Grimm, but also in Otto's "mysterium tremendum" and in religious rituals such as shamanic vision-quests. The Grimms' tales are only one part of this fabric of relation to the anomalous.

Jonathan, thanks for posting your essay. Looks good! :) I'll post mine pretty soon, too. I'm hanging on to it in case I decide to make any last minute changes.

In case you're interested, someone started a group for people who can't participate in the essay process. For instance, if they can write the essay, but can't grade for some reason. You fit in that category, right? Or are you having your mom grade for you? Here's the link, anyway:

https://class.coursera.org/fantasysf-2012-001/forum/thread?thread_id=800

ETA: My mind's gone all fuzzy or I'd give you more interesting comments than "looks good." It's 9:53 and time for this old fogy to go to bed. haha I'll check your essay out again tomorrow. :)

> 2

Interesting post, Hibernator. I agree that the Acocella/Barber stuff is more interesting than Freudian and Marxist. With those paradigms I often get the feeling that one is taking a narrow view of literature by reading from that one perspective alone. Much better to start with the text rather than a certain paradigm, and find all the dynamics of the text.

The New Yorker article was useful because I didn't realize how prodigious these brothers were. Why would they have claimed these stories were oral when in fact they were literary? She also remarks:

"The Grimms were told by friends that some of the material in the first edition was too frightening for children, and they did make a few changes. In a notable example, the first edition of “Hansel and Gretel” has the mother and the father deciding together to abandon the children in the woods. In later editions, it is the stepmother who makes the suggestion, and the father repeatedly hesitates before he finally agrees. Apparently, the Grimms could not bear the idea that the mother, the person who bore these children, would do such a thing, or that the father would readily consent."

I always wondered what the Grimms had against stepmoms. I liked Grethel though, as she is once of the most intelligent and resourceful females I can think of in the collection.

> 13

Thank you! I'm just going to not put it anywhere but here. I'll see you all in the Dracula unit!

Ok, here's my essay. :)

And here's mine:

Fairy tales heard in childhood perform the social task of indoctrinating basic understanding of human behavior and its pitfalls. In “The Mouse, The Bird and The Sausage”, the specified take-away is that having too much leads to continual longing for something new, something more. Where the mouse, bird and sausage had enjoyed a happily organized division of labor in their household, external peer pressure on a single partner causes that partner to lean on the other two to reallocate workload. This ends in the various parties doing tasks for which they are not suited and putting each at risk. Rather than cooking, the sausage is put out to fetch wood which puts him in the way of a dog who seizes and swallows him (who briefly assuming the role of authority, excuses his behavior by claiming that the sausage is indulging in suspect behavior). The mouse, who assumes the sausage’s role as cook, ends by being cooked (losing skin, hair and life in the pot). The bird sees, as a final result of his dissatisfaction, the loss of his household arrangements and subsequently loses his life by attempting a task beyond his strength. The lesson is that wishing for something new, dissatisfaction with one’s role in life leads to unintended consequences.

This theme is similarly picked up in the Grimm tale of "The Fisherman and His Wife". Isabel constantly wishes for just a bit more and, despite her husband’s willingness to ask the magical gift to grant her desires time and time again, overreaches and ends by having no more than the hovel in which she and her spouse had initially lived.

By inculcating this lesson early on, these somewhat humorous stories gently teach children the potential danger of pushing too hard against ordinary circumstances, suggesting instead the life wisdom that we willingly accept situations naturally imposed upon us by individual strengths and weaknesses.

And here is mine, I found it very very hard to put this into such a small amount of words.
I have to say, very interesting ideas which you are all bringing up.

What is the essence of religious beliefs in regards to women in Grimm’s fairy tales and how does it influence the character of the female protagonists?

Fairy tales reflect on, symbolize and interpret culture-historical and psychological issues, depicting women in a multifarious way. The main protagonists represent archetypes of human characteristics and present the world as it should be and usually shows in the use of two opponents. On one side, we have the moral virtues e.g. of goodness, bravery, courage, compassion, solidarity and altruism. However, the other side is the poor virtues such as envy, arrogance, hatred, greed and malice.

Most tales date back to a time when religion played a crucial role in people’s life. The role of women in society was believed to be subservient to man, depicted in the form of a patriarchal society. This social structure was justified by the deep-rooted beliefs in the creation story, on these grounds women had to prove strict adherence to their faith in order to obtain salvation.

The subservient role of women has been especially well demonstrated in the Frog Prince and in King Thrushbeard. Here, we find disobedient, proud and overbearing princesses, both refusing there suitor. In both tales, they are punished, by way of public repetitive indignities, in order to prove that they have to bend to the will of society rules. In the Frog Prince the princess throws the frog in a last act of defiance at the wall, thereby someone could surmise that she loses her identity as obedient daughter, and with the change of the frog into the prince accepts her role as obedient wife.

Looking at these tales in context, it shows that, for both women, the happy ending is connected with the loss of their own freedom. The gender roles and the expected role of women are demonstrated by showing how women had to adapt in this period time.

Here is my first contribution. At least it no longer reads like a Grade 5 book report! lol

Fear and Violence in Household Stories by the Brothers Grimm

The perverse nature of human beings includes the ‘enjoyment’ of fear. This holds true whether we are riding a roller coaster, watching a horror movie, listening to a ghost story or urban legend told around a campfire, or reading a fairy tale.

According to psychologist David Rudd, people enjoy feeling scared and seek the feeling out because, deep down, they know they are in no real danger. (qtd in Malina)

We fear, yet we do not fear, since we are ‘safe’ and are experiencing these feelings vicariously through the characters we are reading or hearing about.

In Grimm’s fairy tales we have repeated violence and scenarios that are designed to educate children about cultural expectations and morals and to frighten them into good behaviour. However, even as children we know that we are not really going to be chopped into pieces and eaten like the maiden in The Robber Bridegroom or murdered by our step-mother and served to our father in a stew as in The Almond Tree.

Is there value in creating literature explicitly to frighten children? Young people do seem to enjoy it as much as adults. In recent years there has been a proliferation of children’s horror literature such as The Creepers series written by Australian writers Rob Hood and Bill Condon and R. L. Stein’s Goosebumps series.

In a slightly different fashion Lemony Snicket’s A Series of Unfortunate Events relates all manner of terrible events, abuse, and violent deaths.

Through this type of literature:
“… children can realise, at least implicitly, that looking at the scary side of life -- loss, bereavement, fear, the monster under the bed -- is possible. They can examine these emotions, even play with them, and by so doing gain some power over them … Horror stories provide a playground in which children (and adults) can play at fear.” (Hood)

Hood, Robert. A Playground for Fear: Horror Fiction for Children 1997. web

Malina, Remy. Why Do People Love to be Scared? 31 Dec 2010. web

In case any of you are interested, here's a page that lists bloggers from the course: http://word2live.wordpress.com/fantasy-and-science-fiction-the-human-mind-our-mo...

Some of them are blogging about the course, and others are just general bloggers.

Hey all, I just wanted to say I really enjoy reading your essays! Some very nice ideas and views on the fairy tales, lovely :)
I won't be posting my own essay, I'm a bit self-conscious about that and really don't think it measures up to any of yours, but I'll be reading along with this thread, if you all don't mind...
I haven't begun watching the videos yet, Will be doing so today or tomorrow, and I've strated on the lewis Carroll readings. Oh, and I really like everybody sharing links, I love reading more about the books we've been reading, so thanks for that :)

> Britt (and anyone else involved in the TIOLI 75 Books Challenge for 2012)

I am sneaking the short stories into challenge #19 when I can; so far I have added:

Country of the Blind - H. G. Wells from The Country of the Blind and Other Stories
The Raven and The Tell-tale Heart - Edgar Allan Poe from The Portable Edgar Allan Poe
Dr. Heidegger's Experiment - Nathaniel Hawthorne - from Twice-Told Tales
Rappaccini's Daughter by Nathaniel Hawthorne - from Mosses from an Old Manse

I also put into Challenge #17:
Alice's Adventures in Wonderland
Through the Looking Glass
The Island of Dr. Moreau Frankenstein i

You can join me and make them shared reads!

Can't figure out where to put Dracula though!

Hi cookie,

I was looking already as well. You definately will find myself in your joined read.

............................................

Update on my posted essay. Actually I changed it completely (with corrected grammar and syntax), to get my point a bit more across. So, the one I posted is not the one I finally submitted.

>23 drachenbraut23:
That will be fun for the TIOLI point count!

I am looking forward to getting feedback on my essay later today!
and am finishing Alice Through the Looking Glass this morning.

I haven't a friggin' clue what the topic of my essay will be. Well, I have one idea but I don't like it very much.

I found a place to put Dracula!! Ula is a first name! (Waste time on the internet much!!??)
Challenge number 17 - another one!

Ok, I finally came back to make comments on everyone's essays. Britt, you're welcome to post your essay or not, as you please, but we ARE a rather friendly group, so you don't have to worry about us attacking you. :)

Jonathan: Your last paragraph could have been written for Alice in Wonderland too. :) I'm noticing a lot of similarities between Alice and Grimm's tales now that I'm reading them back to back. There's even a post I read the other day comparing Alice to a cyborg. I'll dig it up if I can find it again.

Jill: I think it's funny that some of these stories have such a clear moral (like the ones you pointed out) and then there's the stories like The Three Spinsters, where the lazy girl gets her pie and eats it too.

drachenbraut23: Do you think the 19th century German women viewed marriage as a loss of freedom? Were they really free if they didn't marry? I could be wrong, but it seems that being stuck as a spinster (with all the negative connotations) may have seemed a worse lot--and not a celebration of freedom at all. Though, I suppose, that may only be true of POOR spinsters. A RICH spinster is financially independent and has nothing to be ashamed of...I got that from Emma. :)

Cathy: Have you ever heard the term "misattribution of arousal"? I learned it in my psychology class many years ago. People who have been "frightened" by something (heights, roller coaster, scary movie) will be more likely to fancy themselves "in love" or attracted to a "suitable" mate.

Mentioning that term has reminded me of a friend who recently told me that she first knew she was in love with her boyfriend when they climbed Half Dome at Yosemite. She's very afraid of heights and she said when he got her through THAT ordeal, she knew she was in love. Haha! I'm glad I didn't think of the term "misattribution of arousal" when she told me that story! :D

Cathy: I've never participated in TIOLI challenges because they frighten me. I don't understand the rules and don't want to look stupid. ;)

I joined TIOLI last month, and I think it's really kind of rule-less. You have the challenges, you can choose to read a book for a challenge, or not. And you can schedule a book and actually finish it, or you can decide to not finish it and remove it again. Or you can do as ccookie is doing, and just read whatever books you like, and then find a way of fitting them into the challenges ;)
I do appreciate your work ccookie, it's going to be a good TIOLI month like this :) I'm getting a whole lot of books in the name-challenge like this :)

> 27
I really like the TIOLI challenges and they are pretty easy to follow. I like to read something brand new that I wasn't thinking of as a result of some of the challenges and then try and fit my planned reads into certain other challenges. It is just meant to be fun!

> 26
I have not heard of that term but it makes sense doesn't it?!

Thanks for reading the essay!

> Libraryteen
re: essay - I like the use of the word scheming. I would love to see further exploration of the concept of 'bad things happening to good people' and ' good things happening to bad people'. So many of the stories ended badly for the 'good guy'. They are punished and the antagonist is rewarded

> Rachel
I really enjoyed your essay and you are right, it seems like we always look at the evil stepmother and don't really consider the father. They often are horrible aren't they? Thanks for drawing that to my attention. I think this is exactly the kind of thing Professor Rabkin is talking about. Enriching the understanding of other students.

> Jill
Comments re essay:
We always want more don't we, more and better.
Acceptance of ourselves and others is the key to happiness

@32 (and Rachel's essay): I had been thinking about the fathers myself. I mean seriously, what kinds of fathers are these? They wed their princess daughters to beggars, they tell people their daughters can spin gold from straw and thereby get the daughter in question in a whole lot of trouble, they are generally not very nice to their youngest son, they abandon their kids in forests, and if their second wife is terribly abusive of earlier children, they don't do anything to stop it. Really, these are some terrible dads!

. drachenbraut23
Re:essay
I like the fact that you have a title. It helps to set the stage for the essay. I know right away what you are talking about.

Loss of freedom, as we now know is a high price to pay for a 'happy ending' and of, course many marriages did not have that' happy ending'. Women were, and still are, trapped in abusive marriages. But that is a whole other essay!

BTW in paragraph 3 you say 'there suitor' which should be 'their suitors'. The subject is plural so the object is plural also and a lot of people have trouble with there/their

To all of you - Thank you so much. At least here I get a proper feedback.
On Coursera I got graded 4, but only the response "Excellent work. Your response was very interesting"
This is actually my final essay I submitted, so please feel to comment on it. The main reason I am doing this course is to improve my english writing skill :)

The role of women in Grimm's fairy tales.

Fairy tales reflect on, symbolize and interpret culture, historical and psychological issues, depicting women in multifarious ways. The main protagonists represent archetypes of human characteristics and present the world as it should be and usually shows in the use of binary opposites. Moral virtues, positive and negative, play an important part in these tales.

Most tales date back to a time when religion played a crucial part in people's life. The role of women in society was believed to be subservient to man, depicted in the form of a patriarchal society. This social structure was connected to their deep-rooted beliefs in the creation story. Women were considered to be unbridled, rampant and unruly and had to be educated by their fathers and later by their husbands in order to learn obedience and humility. The role of the mother (or any other female relative) was to reinforce these expectations.

These social expectations have been especially well demonstrated in "The Frog Prince" (Lucy Crane page 32) and "King Thrushbeard" (Lucy Crane page 208). Here, we find disobedient, proud and overbearing princesses, both refusing their suitor. In both tales, they are punished, by way of repeatedly public humiliations. In "The Frog Prince" the princess throws the frog at the wall in a last act of defiance, thereby one could surmise that she loses her identity as obedient daughter, and with the change of the frog into the prince accepts her role as obedient wife.

Looking at these two tales in context, it shows that, for both women, the happy ending is connected with the loss of their own freedom. Gender roles and the expected role of women are demonstrated by showing how women had to adapt in this time period. These tales tought young girls that it was acceptable to depend on a man in order to improve their social standing.

I would love to hear your comments :)

I also will comment on your essays later on tonight, as I have to get ready for my nightshift now. 2 more nights and I am off home again. *yipieh*

Ha! I got a 4 too, and was accused of padding the essay with a quote because I couldn't come up with enough words. Which is funny because I purposefully cut out extra examples to fit the quote in there. Ah well! That wasn't very useful. Though I now know how people feel about quotes. *shrugs*

I'm wondering...I got no comments on form or content...did they not include those comments in our assessments? Because most of my helpful comments were in the "form" or "content" fields.

drachenbraut23: My comments on content don't really change from my comments above. However, you made two errors in your essay (that I saw).

"by way of repeatedly public humiliations" It should be "repeated," which is an adjective referring to the noun "humiliations." "repeatedly" is an adverb and should be referred only to a verb as in "he was repeatedly humiliated."

"tought" should be "taught," unless this is the English way of spelling "taught," and I'm just not familiar with the difference. But I don't think they spell this particular word differently in the UK than they do in the US.

Rachel, I actually do think it's good to use quotes, I feel it really serves to illustrate what you're saying. I often get comments that I don't use (enough) quotes; guess it's just a preference.

I also find the feedback a bit disappointing; I personally try to write some comments for every review I do and explain why I gave a good or bad grade, but I only got comments from two reviewers myself. I'm also taking another course and there I got one comment, and that said 'it was ok'. Well, that was very helpful :/

and @39 nope, it's 'taught' both in British and in American English

Well, given the fact that this person said I'd padded both the beginning and the end of the essay, I'm guessing he or she doesn't like explanations and just wants examples? I'm fond of a mix of the two, personally. So I'm not really going to change my style based on that comment.

I had to laugh, after suggesting to the students that I thought a title was useful, one of the comments I got back was that I didn't need to have a title .. oh, well.

Also, I think that there is some kind of glitch in the system re: the comments on evaluations. I spent 2 hours on them and put in all kinds of comments in the form and content sections that no one is seeing. This better be a computer glitch that is going to be fixed or what a waste of my time and everyone elses. And I only got a 3.5 :-(. It would be nice to see the comments so I can see why I received the grade I did. The scores really are meaningless without the comments.

i guess we have to remember that this is early on in this type of education and we are beta testing the software. there are bound to be problems and this is just the first week.

Re: titles It's a matter of taste--like quotes. ;)

Re: 3.5 Really? See, I the way I was grading, I would have given you a 3 for "form" and a 2 for "content." I wasn't very generous with my content grades...I would have given myself a 5 as well.

People are posting their essays here to get better feedback: https://class.coursera.org/fantasysf-2012-001/forum/thread?thread_id=1458

You can always post it anonymously if you are uncomfortable with people knowing who wrote your essay.

I wonder if it's a matter of the comments not showing up, or if people just grade the essays they have to review without adding comments.

> 44
Thanks Rachel. Now being able to see all the student reviewers comments about my work I can see where they are coming from. I have a clearer understanding of why I was given the grade I was given. The comments from all of the student reviewers were very appropriate and most helpful. As someone who has not written an essay since 1973 when I graduated from University (Bachelor of Nursing) I really appreciated the constructive suggestions. Next week I will try and be more focussed in my argument.

I only just got to look briefly at my grade and the comments. There was apparently some glitch in the computer system, but the course page now indicates that's been resolved.

I also want to go back in and listen to the follow-up lectures since I didn't have time to do that earlier.

I hope to catch up with all of you and your essays later this evening or perhaps tomorrow evening!

Ow, yes, I guess the comments indeed just didn't show up... Now I'm actually getting some useful feedback :) Most of it is what I would have said about my essay myself, there's no really big surprises, but after spending time on giving others feedback, it is nice to get something in return.

Yeah, I'm happy with some of my feedback, too. I have decided that a 320 word essay should not have quotes from outside sources. ;)

> 50
... or titles ;)

In case anyone is interested, I've written a few blog posts about Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, which should be read in the following order:

http://rachelreadingnthinking.blogspot.com/2012/07/alices-adventures-in-circle-o...

http://rachelreadingnthinking.blogspot.com/2012/07/alice-caterpillar-and-serpent...

http://rachelreadingnthinking.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-confidence-of-alice.html

These are about a puberty/transformation allegory. I don't know if I'll be as prolific with Through the Looking Glass. :)

Hi Hibernator,

between working and sleeping. I found some time to read your blog. I very much enjoyed your assessment (and the beautiful pictures) about the story so far. I came to a similar assessment of the story, especially the comparison of the house and the womb, and the assessment of the possible meaning of the caterpillar. I hope I will be able to finish the second book by tomorrow.

YES, it is "taught" - this is what I consider to be one of my - not looking properly, write to fast and not checking it "mistakes". *sigh*
I am usually pretty good at spelling, my main problems are my grammar and my syntax.

*wink at* cookie - another nurse, there seem to be quite a few nurses around on LT. So, what was your expertise?

> drachenbraut23
I worked in Public Health / Community Health for many years but have been on Long Term Disability for the past 7.5 years. I have quite severe fibromyalgia but it has been slowly improving over the years.

And you?

Hi cookie - I graduated as a pediatric nurse in '93 and have been working since then in different areas such as oncology, haematology and bone marrow transplantation, HIV/AIDS, pediatric A&E. Inbetween I did another post-graduate Bachelor in children's nursing in the UK, with the focus on neonatal intensive care, clinical research and communication. For the past 15 years I am stuck as a "sister" (I think you may use a different term) on a Level 3 NICU with lots of surgical cases. I also meddle quite a lot in infection control - I just like chasing these little buggers *grin* and tremendously enjoy telling doctors off.

I am glad to hear that you are slowly improving with your fibromyalgia. I have heard that it can be quite difficult to treat at times. I know that people with fibromyalgia tire very fast, which I can imagine can be annoying.

....................................................

I have not started my essay yet, due to the fact that I have not finished Through the looking glass as yet (I am half way through), and I am off to Germany tonight, which takes me around 10 - 12 hours *sigh*. So, tomorrow I will be completely shattered.

LONGWINDED speech aside, my question is: Can we use first person in this essay? Mr. Rabkin said in the video that he want's us to look at "How we felt as children?" - if we read them books as children - and how we feel about them now, and if we think the books were adressed at children or adults.
Please help me out here.

As soon as lunch is over, while my spouse is over helping to build stage sets at the local community theatre, I'm going to be settling in for a long study period over the course of the afternoon. I love Panera coffee and they let you sit for HOURS.

I read several essays with the first person and never thought twice about it. In fact, I think the first person makes the essay more interesting. :)

I think it's funny that you say you enjoy telling doctors off. My bf is a resident in family medicine and he HATES the OB/GYN rotations because the nurses are always telling him off. (He hates it for other reasons too...I think the nurses just add to it.) He feels really bad when he makes a mistake and gets yelled at, but he also feels like if he allows himself to be yelled at by the nurses then people will lose respect for him. It's a touchy subject. He really DOES appreciate all the knowledge the nurses can share with him, he just doesn't like being yelled at. ;)

#52, The Hibernator - Your blog entries were quite interesting to read. The Caterpillar chapter was what caught my attention as well, particularly since mainstream culture tends to overlook the change in Alice after taking a bite of the Caterpillar's mushroom. Not a nice childhood story element, Alice assuming the shape of a serpent, is it?

Although now one wonders, if Alice's transformation played any part in Rowling's imagining of Harry Potter and his relationship with snakes.

Unfortunately, I have not managed to finish the second book of Lewis Caroll and only had a very short time to concoct an essay. Well, it is very weak and I think some (maybe most) of the meaning got lost again whilst I had to adjust it to 320 words. Still, I would like to here your opinion ;).
Oh BTW - because I did it late last night I did not have someone to check my grammar and syntax, although I checked more carefully my spelling this time *grin*

Alice in Wonderland – An exploration of the principles of reality and a journey into adulthood!

On our imaginative and dreamlike journey through Alice in Wonderland, we experience a world which is composed of several different levels. Everything in this world is at the same time usual and unusual. Our traditional knowledge no longer applies. Generally accepted concepts and ideas split open at the seams.

The stylistic principle of the nonsense, the incongruity, which manifest itself in the annulment of logic in language, in the absurdity and the violation of the way of habitual thinking, semantic irregularities, and in an endless number of language games and blemished poems. Well shown e.g. in discussions with the Caterpillar, the Hatter, the Duchess and the Cheshire Cat. In addition, categories such as time and space, morality, identity, communication and hierarchies between humans, animals and objects are abolished.

At the beginning of her journey, Alice finds it to be difficult to cope with the habitual ways of thinking and the existing language conventions. Alice tries repeatedly to recognize rules in the nonsense of the Wonderland inhabitants, but fails miserably. The polite phrases Alice uses, trying to preserve her civic identity, are understood false or literally. All this adds significantly to the uncertainty and frustration of Alice.

Throughout her journey in Wonderland Alice learns more and more to understand and adapt to these strange inhabitants and this world and, therefore, copes better which each new situation. She becomes the opportunity to explore and review the notions of consistency and common sense rules. Finally, during the trial at the Queen’s court, Alice recognizes the inhabitants for what they are when she shouts “You are nothing but a pack of cards!” This end shows how well Alice has adapted and that she is ready to start her separation process from her parents and that the journey through Wonderland taught her to realize that parents (adults) are not omniscient and omnipotent.

#57 - Hibernator "telling off" does not mean shouting or yelling at someone. I can understand how friend feels. I don't think that this kind of strategy helps to control and improve infection control.
However, I find that especially new Docs need a lot of extra education, because very often they give us the impression "Infection control ? - Nothing to do with me".

My essay is here: http://rachelreadingnthinking.blogspot.com/2012/08/alice-transformed-coursera-es...

It's an extension of my original "birth" metaphor, so you might have already read the first paragraph. :)

drachenbraut23: I didn't mean to imply that you were acting rudely...it's just that you reminded me that every time my boyfriend does a OB/GYN rotation he gets all grumpy. I imagine there's one or two nurses that are quite rude in that department. He appreciates that he needs training. That's what his residency is for, after all. ;)

I'm reading your essay now.

ETA: I had a little trouble finishing Through the Looking Glass. It's not one of my favorites.

The stylistic principle of the nonsense, the incongruity, which manifest itself in the annulment of logic in language, in the absurdity and the violation of the way of habitual thinking, semantic irregularities, and in an endless number of language games and blemished poems.

This is a very difficult sentence. I'm unsure of what you're trying to say.

At the beginning of her journey, Alice finds it to be difficult to cope with the habitual ways of thinking and the existing language conventions.

She becomes the opportunity to explore and review the notions of consistency and common sense rules.

I don't think she actually becomes the opportunity. Perhaps she HAS the opportunity?

I totally agree with your essay! Good job! :)

I'm REALLY excited to finally start a book with a plot. Not that I don't like Grimm's tales or Alice, but I can only take small amounts of lack-of-plot-development at a time.

I'm reading The New Annotated Dracula, which has helpful footnotes to explain things that would otherwise go over my head. :)

# Hibernator :) I did not think that you ment me "acting rudely" - I just ment generally that it is a shame if people do react like that. Unfortunately, I do have some collegues who do - excactely that - they become rude, the patronize and in my opinion that's just not it.

Hm, I think I ment to well with that sentence. I do have the tendency to write long-winded, complex sentences. Maybe I should have broken it up (a little) - too late now. Then again, I did not have so much time to write. Looking at it now, I can see where the difficulty lies in reading the sentence. I shortened this sentence too much and now part of the meaning is lost.

Your essay is absolutely brilliant. It floats on your easy language and get's right down to the point.
:( I wish I could write that easy. Even so, that I am fluent in English - my written English always sounds so proper and stilted.

I am almost finished with the version supplied by Prof. Rabkin, but your annotated Version sounds very interesting. I go and check if I can get that version for my kindle. :) And I am also enjoying reading something with a plot development.

:( No Kindle version for the annotated Version

I'm using Dracula (Illustrated Classics) which has illustrations by Becky Cloonan; I can't get the right touchstone to pop up but the work page is: http://www.librarything.com/work/883/book/88554123

The illustrations appear in both the hardcover as well as the Kindle edition. I'm finding that they really help with keeping my attention fixed on the text.

Are any of you wondering if the 4 students you got this week may be the same 4 you assessed last week? It is just a suspicion on my part, but the submissions I saw this week and last seemed rather similar in style.

Also I *think* I only got one student assessment last week (unless I missed some clue in the interface somehow). How about the rest of you?

>jillmwo
I didn't think of that but after you suggested it I looked back and thought ...ok student one ...maybe ... student two...maybe...student three...maybe...student 4...last week was the weakest essay...this week the best. I would hope that they are being randomized. Last week I had feedback on my essay from four reviewers

I can hereby state that you absolutely do not get the same students. Last week all my essays were quite ok, this week I had two that were completely illegible and clearly written by people that hardly speak English and have no clue what an essay is. I wonder how I'm supposed to stick to giving out mainly two's, because I really couldn't give these 'essays' more than 1's, which means half of my grades for this bunch were 1's...

I also had feedback from 4 people; you can see it if you go to your grade, they just list what comments the different students gave per student, so if there's only one student listed, then you only had one student giving a comment. But I don't think you can see how many students gave grades, perhaps some just gave a grade and didn't comment.

> jillmwo

I know that I did not have the same students this week. The essay's I reviewed (8) last week were better. This week I reviewed (15) - I am off work at present - and here I was getting really frustrated, because there were quite a lot of very weak ones - unfortunately, there were quite a few where I had to hand out 1's, because their english and their content was so bad that it made no sense at all.

Last week I had 3 feedbacks on my essay and all three of them were very constructive.

# I had a look at your suggested Dracula Edition - lovely with all the pictures :)

I don't know for sure, but I don't think I got the same students for review this time.

The Illustrated Dracula looks fun, too. :) The New Annotated Dracula is pretty amazing. It's more annotation than book! It would be very distracting if I hadn't already read the book...in fact, I decided it was so amazing that I can't give it the proper attention in one week, so I am listening to the audiobook to hurry me along. :) The audiobook has an all-star cast, so it's really nice. :)

It's the Audible one: http://www.audible.com/pd?asin=B0078PA1OA

I'm out of town this week and don't know how much time I'll have to read and write, so I might not do too well on the next two essays!

Woah! I leave for my 10-day retreat and find a lot of new posts when I get back. Glad we have an LT thread, as the course forums look like a jungle. I am about 20% through Dracula on my Kindle and it is thrilling. I hope you are all enjoying it as much as I am. I especially like the epistolary writing style.

Well, I'm visiting my parents in MN for a week, and I didn't have time to finish either The New Annotated Dracula or the audiobook. So I probably won't have an essay. Hopefully I'll still have time to finish Frankenstein (I'm reading the Norton Critical Edition), but, of course, seeing all of my family and friends while I can is more important than Coursera. *heavy sigh* (It's hard to admit anything is more important than reading--but there it is...)

Hibernator - I totally get you! Since I missed the Lewis Carroll unit I can't rag on you. It's okay. We all miss weeks.

Yesterday my mom called me, upset about this course. She had gotten 1's on both her Carroll and Grimm essays. What's mystifying is that the graders she got were just point-blank stupid. One of them told her that she needed to work on her grammar and punctuation - an odd thing to say to a woman who has taught college-level English/ESL for 30+ years. So she was a bit upset that the grading seems very strange, and that fellow students aren't trained in how to grade a paper (or what a good paper looks like).

I trace this back to the anonymity problem, and not knowing who your grader is. I wish grading was anonymous so we could dialogue with our grader.

Has anyone else has this problem? Like you aren't getting a grade that jives with your estimate of how good a writer and thinker you are?

I was *off* for a few days as well and as I can see, there is a little catching up to do :)

> Hibernator - I hope you have a great time with your family

> libraryteen - I got for both my essays 2 + 2 = 4 - so I can not complain, and I am very pleased with it. However, I am not to sure on how efficient this grading system is.

One response on my last essay (post 59 - my submitted essay was a slightly corrected version) said that my grammar is so awful that it made my essay utterly unintelligable - and the addition of the parents in my closing sentence would just be nonsense and completely irrevelant to my thesis - if I was looking for a "thesis stretcher". Well, ever heard of Sigmund and Anna?

Nevertheless, I know English is NOT my first language - and YES I would like to have constructive feedback on what I am doing wrong (such as Rachel has done) - BUT, I do now for a fact that my English is not "unintelligable" *AAAAAAArgh*

I haven't gotten been graded down as to form except for the wretched paragraph breaks that appear/disappear in the submission process. The criticism has all been around my failure to form appropriate paragraphs! The wiki interface for formatting essays is not particularly intuitive or consistent in its behavior.

So neither your mom, lilbrattyteen, nor you, drachenbraut23, should feel as if you are at fault.

I have some serious issues at the moment with the Coursera platform. Some of the grading is off due to the student population, but a good deal of it may be laid at the feet of the folk who've built this thing.

>76 jillmwo: Jill
remember we are beta testing this whole process so there are going to be glitches and problems to work out with the software, the programming and the format. I am sure that the next course will be different. I was looking at the music course yesterday and they have a more detailed marking rubric which would be helpful for us.

I personally do feel that the grading is a bit inappropriate. Though I haven't personally gotten 'bad' grades, I do feel that being graded only by your peers is strange; I understand that it's a free course with thousands of participants and that it's too much work for a professor to check every essay, but I just don't feel like my peers have the expertise and knowledge to judge me. I mean, I like the idea of peer grading and think it can be very useful, but I don't think it should be your definitive grade like this. I just feel like there should be someone who actually knows the subject and is more experienced, more knowledgeable, also be taking a look at essays.

It would be interesting if we knew how many people are taking the course. I signed up for the Modern Poetry course starting in Sept and I received an e-mail yesterday and that course is already at 21,000 students. No professor could even glance at a random selection of that many essays!!!
I do feel, though that there needs to be more guidance on how to grade them.

This is all true; but is the frustration of the grading system worth it? I'm hoping the mythology class is different. But even if it's not, I'm really looking forward to the videos in that course.

I guess we just have to relax and get what we can from the course. I am really appreciating the video lectures and reading things I would not normally read. So that's all good. And this is supposed to be fun for me so I'm letting my frustrations go!

I got a 4 on my first essay and a 4.5 on my second essay, so I can't complain. I think it's best just to enjoy myself and not worry about what the graders say--unless they say something useful. :)

I wasn't able to submit an essay this week but I thought I'd write one anyway. So here goes. Thoughts? Can others post their essays so I can get others' thoughts? I've watched about half of Rabkin's lectures for Dracula and they are brilliant. (This is the first unit I've been able to watch his lectures on!)

Dracula is one of the books I'm reading for the Coursera fantasy and sci-fi class. I tend to be a big wimp who doesn't like horror books and movies. But I could not put down Stoker's philosophically-charged novel. And though Eric Rabkin points out in the online lecture that vampire stories are in many cultures, Dracula is the definitive vampire depiction in English literature. Stoker's proteges - perhaps imitators - have a lot to owe him, from Anne Rice to Stephanie Meyer.

Stoker's novel, written by an Irishman 1897, is part of the Romantic genre of Gothic literature. Gothic literature conjured up the myth and superstition of "that Romish religion," the medieval Catholicism whose abandoned abbeys and cathedrals dotted the English landscape in geography and imagination. Appropriately, Stoker plays with the themes of reason and superstition in his novel. His cast of educated characters who understand the rational nuances of medicine, psychiatry, and law are confronted with a beast - a problem - that these cannot destroy. At the start of the novel, Jonathan Harker is annoyed by what he sees as the superstition of the peasants who fear Count Dracula. The irony is that these characters must use the ancient superstition and folklore revealing Dracula's habits and weaknesses (garlic and crucifixes!) in a highly rational way, deducing plans of attack and likely places to find the Count. I see here a critique of science, which tends to look down on folk superstition and disprove it rather than accept it as credible evidence.

One of the philosophical ingredients of science is empiricism, a philosophical doctrine stating that knowledge comes only from the senses. But Stoker's characters are often in other states of consciousness. In sleep they have nightmares of a vampire which seem to be real. Upon waking they find they have funny bites on their neck. Mina Harker, in a trance, partakes of the blood the vampire and begins to share his essence. This horrifying evil becomes a boon when she realizes that in hypnosis she can access the Count's mind and tell others the "hunting party" his whereabouts. Whereas empirical science assumes that we are in control of our senses and our minds do not deceive us, Stoker's characters have a hard time telling reality from altered states of mind, and even find valuable information in those non-ordinary states. Here we have the Enlightenment rationality contrasted with the psychological introspection of the Romantics, the era that birthed Freud.

The book's epistolary format led me to trust the narrators, as I saw the world only through their eyes and had no reason to doubt them. But at the end of the novel, Jonathan Harker (in his diary) laments that the only evidence they had of the whole affair was written testimony. After all, who would accept such fantastic claims on the basis of eyewitnesses alone? I, the reader, who believed the credibility of the story all the way along, realized then that if I ran into someone on the street who told me of these things, I would think they were a little off. I - and the science-obsessed culture I am a part of - am wary of claims of the paranormal, the parapsychological, of occult physical phenomena that make no sense by current scientific theories. How much truth or reality is excluded by the scientific need for documentation, verification, and replication? How many "crackpots" have in fact had real experiences? Stoker's novel raises these questions by using the letters of sane, credible, and educated characters to reveal strange things beyond belief, beyond ordinary states of mind, drawing on ancient "ignorant" superstition. What does science as a knowledge system unjustly exclude?

Overall, a great read.

Regarding your discussion of the narrators in Dracula, in the strictest sense, I think the narrators are reliable but frequently the individuals being observed are not. Renfield isn't a reliable source of information, in part because his mental state is questionable. There are the times when he is frankly mad and then there are the times when he is under the influence of the Count. I was never quite sure with Renfield whether his appetite for spiders and flies was due to mental illness or due to the Count having bitten him.

(I like your point that crackpots can have authentic experiences that may not always be included but I do think to be fair, we need to note that Seward consistently reports *what* Renfield says in his case notes, even if he doesn't believe the substance of Renfield's testimony. There is that point in the story where Renfield pleads to be let loose so that he may escape before doing Mina harm. It's not made clear (at least, not to me) whether Renfield still retains sufficient control of his own soul to be telling the truth as to his fear of being used as Dracula's tool or if that plea to be released is simply Renfield trying to get *closer* to Dracula's physical presence. Seward doesn't release him and the next thing we learn about Renfield is that he's been brutally murdered in his cell (presumably by the Count who no longer has need for him.)

I quite agree that it was a great read and one which has hold of my imagination, unlike Alice or Grimms.

jillmwo, the epistolary format made the novel more fleeting for me. I disagree with Rabkin on that one. In his lectures he said that the events' being written down rather than narrated made them more concrete and substantial. But the epistolary format, where we only see characters' perspectives, makes me wonder if perhaps the characters aren't all as nuts as Renfield and made the whole thing up. An omniscient narrator would be more trustworthy to me.

One of the things that drives me nuts about this grading is that 300 words is beyond concise. It's constraining. What depth can one go into in 300 words? So I write my real essay for here, then chop it down for the course site.

Here goes.

Like Dracula, Frankenstein creates a world of reversals. The monster is ugly on the outside, but compassionate and virtuous on the inside. Frankenstein is handsome on the outside, but unempathetic and cruel on the inside. This hints at the reversals in this book in which humanity's reason is suggested to not be a God-given, noble side of us, but the basis for a sick desire for power and conquest showing that humanity should not play with life, that we can not be God.

In Western culture, especially during the Enlightenment, reason is often considered the highest part of humanity. Reason - through science - will deliver us from suffering through inventions such as vaccines, and is what separates us from animals and makes us God-like. But in this book, Frankenstein's creation is his unvirtuous, sick desire for power, for knowledge no human should have. The ugliness of his use of reason, and his character in general, is symbolized by the ugliness of the monster he creates. He is the Jungian shadow of Frankenstein's aspirations to enlightened knowledge, which is why the monster repulses him so much.

But Shelley's exposure of Frankenstein's character is also a critique of science in its revealing of the dark side of human nature. Science here does not cure anyone or make anyone happy. Instead of glorifying Frankenstein as the arbiter of a new scientific breakthrough, the creation of the monster drives him to shame, isolation, and insanity. The religious parallels are clear: unlike God, Frankenstein doesn't know how to treat his creation. He can't make it happy, as he does not care for it. He hates it. He refuses to empathize with it. This creator is contrasted to the Christian Creator, who unlike Frankenstein is both loving and wise enough to know how to care for his creation. So while the monster is referred to as fallen man, in fact it is Frankenstein. Frakenstein is fallen man because he is too clueless and unloving to be God. The presence of the monster reminds Frakenstein - and the reader - of the limits of humanity, of our inability to be God, of the sicknesses that our reason can produce. These are things we often don't wish to hear about ourselves, as we believe we are virtuous and capable of the highest rationality. Hence the monster being ugly, and hence the discomfort and fascination the Frankenstein story brings out in readers.

Anyone else care to post their essay?

I didn't write an essay for Dracula and didn't have time to even START Frankenstein (because I figured I wouldn't finish it in time and I wanted to devote a real effort to it--not just skim through it so I can write a 320 word essay!) I'm back on track for the Poe Hawthorne section though! In fact, I've posted my interpretation of The Bells on my blog: http://rachelreadingnthinking.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-bells.html

As for your essay, I agree that this is a good interpretation. That's sort of how I looked at it (perhaps with a little more naivete) when I read it 17 years ago. :) I know now that she was greatly influenced by Paradise Lost when she wrote this book. I haven't had much time to research her views, but I know her husband was a fan of William Blake's interpretation of Paradise Lost--that Milton was on the side of Satan without knowing it. I decided to reread Frankenstein after I finish Paradise Lost.

From what I remember of Frankenstein and what I know of Paradise Lost, I believe that if Mary Shelly believed that Milton was on the side of Satan, then she MEANT for Frankenstein to represent God and his monster to represent Satan. The doctor creates the "monster," but he doesn't take responsibility for what he has created. He doesn't love the monster or care for the monster, and Frankenstein's negligence leads ultimately to the monster's "fall." Just as in Paradise Lost (by the Blake/Shelley interpretation) Satan's fall is God's fault because Satan was set up for a fall. God created circumstances in which Satan was destined to fall. Satan had no choice but falling, by this interpretation.

I don't really agree with this interpretation of Milton, but I have to do a lot more reading to develop my ideas further. Also, like I said, I haven't had time to look into Mary Shelley's views on Milton--I simply assume they're similar to her husband's.

> 87

Very interesting. I think the Frankenstein as God parallel only goes so far though. By the end of the novel I felt a huge moral ambiguity of who is right and who is wrong. Both Frankenstein and the monster think the other is the embodiment of evil, and I don't see one with better evidence for that claim than the other. But I think the monster was more virtuous than Frankenstein. He gave humankind a chance, many chances, before being driven to murder and destruction. Also, at the end of the book the monster "repents" and vows to not harm any more humans. Frankenstein never gave the monster a chance, hating him from the start for his physical ugliness (shallow!) and dying still bent on revenge and bloodthirst.

Yes, but (I think) by the Blake/Shelley interpretation of Paradise Lost, God was the villain of the story. As was Frankenstein in Mary Shelley's book. So, really, the Blake/Shelly interpretation of God only goes "so far." ;) It depends on how much you like God, really. :p

Jonathan: I didn't want to continue this conversation on my thread and thus sprinkle the thread with spoilers. We're safe here since everyone has theoretically read Dracula.

For everyone else's benefit, the conversation so far:

the_hibernator: Don't forget ideas about feminism/sexism. *deep voice:* "Man's brain, woman's heart" hehe If I wrote an essay about Dracula I probably would have considered the feminism/sexism debate. Was Stoker sexist, or were only his characters sexist? After all, Mina kicked booty--she was much more awesome than anyone else. I don't think even Van Helsing could have succeeded without her. She's the one who came up with all the brilliant ideas with that "man's brain" of hers. ;)

libraryteen: Being a man I didn't really pick up on these things. :P Except to notice that Mina, too, could be foolish. "Oh I'm having these weird dreams about a vampire biting me but I don't want to tell the others since it might alarm them!"

Me (now): I noticed that inconsistency in character, too. But based on several other comments she made during that time, I gathered that Dracula had some sort of "mind-control" or dope-effect on his victims when they were suffering from recent vampire-induced-blood-loss. For one thing, she also started breaking down into tears repeatedly and kept stating in her diary that this behavior was very unlike her. There were other small changes in her personality when she was being victimized, too. But notice that when Dracula had been scared away she started to get her "man's brain" back again. She's the one who came up with the hypnosis idea. She's the one who figured out what river he might be traveling on.

Initially (before vampirization) she was the one who thought to collect all the notes and distribute them to the right people. She's the one who set up an organized communication system (by typing everything up on her ultra-technologically-advanced typewriter). John Seward also had a technologically advanced tool (his recording device) but he admitted to never thinking how he would find specific bits of information in it. She's the one who typed it up (on her ultra-technologically-advanced typewriter).

The men put her in danger by cutting off communication with her and leaving her alone...especially when Renfield (who they knew had SOMETHING to do with Dracula) was acting so suspicious. If they hadn't cut off communication, perhaps she wouldn't have (in her muddled state) hidden the fact that strange things were happening to her.

We can hardly blame her when she was in a muddled vampire-sucked state and had been cut off from communication for not thinking logically, can we?

I'm not saying this because I'm a feminist. I've experienced little to no sexism in my life, and always had to listen to whiny women complaining about how they never got anywhere in life because men held them back (teenaged me: why didn't you spend more time working and less time whining?). I'm saying this because I thought it was striking that Lucy was so pathetic and Van Helsing so silly with his saying over and over again "man's mind, woman's heart" stuff (which practically made me choke the first time he said it); yet Mina was such a powerful, intelligent, important character. I think Professor Rabkin was right in his lecture when he suggested that it was, in fact, Mina who was the protagonist of Dracula.

I'll post here what I put in Rachel's thread. The part I forgot to post about Frankenstein....

Mina Harker is better than Victor Frsnkenstein. He was such a heartless, irresponsible, pathetic human being. By 2/3 of the way through the book I WANTED to see his 'monster' slaughter him!

I wonder if anyone has tried to do a retrlling of Frankenstein from the daemon's point of view?

I haven't been around much here... I've been following the course but haven't had the time to really follow this thread. I just wondered about something though, so I'll put it to you guys, and maybe you can put my mind at ease:
For Frankenstein, I wrote my essay about how the creature Frankenstein creates is not actually a monster to begin with. I mean, in pop culture he is often referred to as 'the monster of Frankenstein', but I thought that in the book, he really isn't a monster at all at the beginning, but is just trying to fit in and find some companionship. Only when he finds that society casts him out and doesn't accept him, he becomes a monster, because he's angry, and because he feels like he has no choice.
One of my reviewers commented that I was stupid and had completely misunderstood the entire novel, and that the entire point of the novel is that the creature IS a monster. So... now I'm a bit stunned. I've read the novel several times and though I often worry about my stupidity, I really do feel like the Frankenstein novel can be interpreted in the way I did. I mean, I guess one can disagree with it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that my interpretation is stupid or flawed, right?
Anyway, I was just wondering how you guys felt... Maybe I am just stupid and should keep my big mouth shut, but really, I'm a bit disheartened by this :(

> 92
my essay was more or less on the same premise as yours and I also had a student who thought my premise was entirely wrong and that the creation was a monster right from the beginning. I disagree with that entirely. He was kind and lost and learning at the beginning but he had already been abandoned to himself right from the beginning. I don't think you are stupid at all!!

>92 Britt84: here is my essay; perhaps you could share yours?

‘Abandonment’ in Frankenstein
Abandoned and neglected children are more likely to be rejected by their peers in early adolescence and are more likely to be violent in later adolescence (Chapple et al). In Frankenstein we see the results of Victor’s abandonment of his creation / his child, in the absolute extreme. Although only a few years old, the creature is fully adult, fully rejected and fully violent.

When abandonment occurs at a time when children are developing their sense of self-worth, they can develop a belief in their own inadequacy and experience deep shame (Black). The creature has the potential, as do we all, of being a productive member of the society that he has been brought into. However, he suffers greatly and whatever potential that originally existed is destroyed by his past. Think how it would affect you to know that your father /reacted this way when first looking at you. “... the beauty of the dream vanished, and breathless horror and disgust filled my heart” (Frankenstein Chapt. 5).

Not only is the creature abandoned by his ‘creator’, his ‘father’, he is also rejected by everyone he comes in contact with. He lives his life alone, abandoned by society. Every effort he makes to approach humans with kindness and compassion is met with rebuke. In the pain and agony of his frustration he gives vent to his anger, this being the only thing he really knows.

The monster affirms his belief that he IS a monster, when he describes looking at his reflection. “… I started back, unable to believe that it was indeed I who was reflected in the mirror; and when I became fully convinced that I was in reality the monster that I am, I was filled with the bitterest sensations of despondence and mortification" (Frankenstein, Chap. 12). With this belief, it was almost inevitable that the monster became just that, a monster in all ways.

Black, Claudia. ‘Living with repeated abandonment experiences creates toxic shame.’ June 4, 2010. The Many Faces of Addiction. Web. 21/08/2012

Chapple, Constance; Tyler, Kimberly; Bersani, Biana E. ‘Child Neglect and Adolescent Violence: Examining the Effects of Self-Control and Peer Rejection’. 2005. University of Nebraska – Lincoln. DigitalCommons@University of Nebraska – Lincoln. Web 21/08//2012

Shelley, Mary. Frankenstein or the Modern Prometheus. epubBooks.com. Original publication 1818.

I am inclined to think that someone who interprets the novel as "the monster" being a monster to begin with has missed Shelley's point--but everyone has a right to his or her own opinion, and it is rude to say someone is wrong or stupid. Don't let it get to you. It was WRONG of that person to be so rude. ;)

My interpretation is that the monster "fell" into monsterhood because Frankenstein neglected his duty as creator and father. But then, I haven't read the book in 17 years. :)

And ccookie, it's funny that I typed my message and used the words "creator" and "father" before I read your essay. So you see we think alike!

How strange that there are so many people that didn't interpret the novel that way that you BOTH got "you're wrong" reviews. But ignore the rude people!

In my opinon, both of you, Britt84 and ccookie, seem to have done fairly well in extracting the meat of Shelley's work.

When reading Frankenstein, my interpretation was that Victor was the more fallen of the two since he could not imagine that the monster was anything other than "ugly" or evil whereas the monster actually achieves redemption by recognizing his own misdeeds (the various murders) and by being able to forgive Victor for abandoning him. Victor never rises above his own selfish perspectives.

I think my essay focused more on the potential problems of being self-taught that arise in Frankenstein.

This past week, however, I fell in love with Hawthorne's short story, The Artist of the Beautiful. I must have read it three times through, breaking it down and seeing more in it each time. And I'm way ahead in composing my essay. Hawthorne is an intrusive omniscient narrator, but the story he tells is heartbreaking!

Thanks for your comments! I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who felt this way about Frankenstein...
I really like your essay, ccookie, and the way you connect the story to more modern theories about abandonment, I really like that.
As for Frankenstein, I never really liked him. I very much agree that he is selfish and unkind to his creation, and I also find that I was really annoyed at his self-pity. All he seems to do throughout the book is feel sorry for himself.

My essay for Frankenstein:

Though many people know Frankenstein's creation by the name 'the monster of Frankenstein', and pop-culture usually refers to this creature as a monster, he is actually not a 'monster' from the start. If we consider the creature's story to be trustworthy, we see that he is, in fact, a kind and loving person initially, who merely seeks to be a part of society and wishes for people to accept and love him. He only turns into a 'monster', upon finding that society will not accept him and turns him out. He only turns to violence when he feels that there is no chance for him to be accepted by human beings.
Shelley's novel can serve as a lesson for all of us. I think it is quite common for acts of violence to be committed by people who exist on the fringes of our society. It is often the outcasts that turn to criminality, vandalism, and drugs and other substance abuse. Shelley's novel can therefore be read as a warning, and as a critique of our society. As a society, we should accept people and be kind to them, even if they are different from ourselves. If we accept people into our society and allow them to be part of our society, they can prove to be valuable members of that society, as for instance Frankenstein's creature proves he can help out by cutting wood. If we choose to cast out those who are different, do not accept them and treat them badly, this will, in a way, force these people into a path of criminality and violence, as Frankenstein's creature feels forced to behave violently because he isn't accepted.
Shelley's work teaches us that we need to be tolerant and accepting. By casting out and discriminating, we create our own 'monsters'.

> 93, 94 Britt84, ccookie

I actually agree with the arguments of your essays. I think there are some people on this coursera class who are sophomoric, maybe think they know everything about the literature and slam down anyone who disagrees with their narrow interpretation. Also people can be mean on the internet. This has come up on this thread before - see posts 73 and 74. I feel there should be a flagging system on coursera for graders who are uncivil or unrespectful in their comments, but I know that would be impossible to manage.

Britt84, I sent your post to my mom. She too felt miffed that condescending graders had given her rather good essays short shrift. One of her graders told her she needed to work on grammar and punctuation. As I said before, she has taught college English/ESL for over 30 years, so grammar and punctuation are not a problem for her. More likely the grader thought they knew proper English when they did not. If this happens with grading punctuation and grammar, I'm sure the parallel applies to grading the actual argument of the mini-essay. Just remember you're not alone in this!

Also, your points about Frankenstein's creation not being created a monster, but being socialized into one, reminds me of the finding that psychopaths and sociopaths are often created that way by their environment. Think of the stories you hear of those children in Russian orphanages who were never held or given human contact as infants. They never develop an emotional bond with anyone so they are more likely to be psychopathic/sociopathic adults. The "daemon" is similarly deprived of any emotional bond because people are too shallow to see past his hideous facade. This is what drives him to his psychopathic act of killing all those people with no feeling. (Although the parallel isn't complete since unlike a true psychopath he feels remorse later.) How many of these "Frankenstein's monsters" are in our prisons? I imagine lots.

First post of Hawthorne/Poe essay! I had fun with this week's readings.

First, the best reading of Poe's "The Raven" in existence, anywhere, on the planet: dotsub.com/view/58591756-7128-488c-bfe9-22463d46d907
Enjoy!

Second, my essay:

Nathaniel Hawthorne's four short stories focus on characters attempting to use science or other means of human ingenuity to create something more sublime than nature is capable of. Like Victor Frankenstein, Owen, Dr. Heidegger, Dr. Rappaccini, and Aylmer hope to usher in a new age of human prosperity and achievement by improving upon nature's designs. Owen makes a butterfly more beautiful than any real butterfly, Heidegger attempts to cheat death, Rappaccini makes a human potent with the power to kill, and Aylmer attempts to create a perfectly beautiful woman. Each man of art or science seeks to be a modern Prometheus. Yet each one fails, as their discoveries are too sublime to last. That is, the deep intellect of each creator, unlike the omnipotent Creator, runs up against the iron wall of the laws of nature, of the limits of human perfection (Georgina's demise), or the wretched idiocy of their species (Dr. Heidegger). Their plans foiled, these geniuses find their hopes dashed, their wife or daughter dead, their life's work crushed by a small child's hand.

Although none of these stories focus on creators who build universes out of words, Hawthorne could be seen as describing the life of the novelist. No matter how lofty and sublime the author's mental conception might be, the imagination of the individual and the language they write in makes for an always imperfect creation. There is no end to editing. Hawthorne sees the agony of the artist who can envision perfection but can never reach it. But in the effort, they make significant sacrifices, and are oft-disappointed by the limits of their pen and their neighbors. An artist - or any creator - is limited by their human embodiment and the meager tools at its disposal, and their ability to live off their writing is sometimes limited by the meager minds of their audience.

*wink* to everyone. Unfortunately I was ill for over a week and needed some time to recover afterwards. I was unable to hand in my essay of Frankenstein - However my unfinished essay was going along the same lines as Britt and ccookie. Although, I got several other things out of that book (one of my regular re-reads *grin*), the most important part for myself always was that "The monster" was indeed not evil to start of with, but became nasty due to the abondement by Frankenstein and the way society treated him, because he was different. I always felt that this "abandoment" and how someone gets perceived by society, could easily be translated into our modern world, with more and more young people turning to violence, because they don't get enough positive input to grow up.

As I still felt a bit "off" - I have not bothered with Hawthorne and Poe, but I am almost finished with Wells :)

Anyway, very nice to read all of your interesting thoughts.

> 101 - Thanks!!

Finally, I'm back on track with this class! I've given up keeping up entirely because I simply don't like the pace. I figure I'll go through the lecture transcripts and texts more closely on my own later, so I can do some side reading like critiques and biographies. So now I'm only auditing the course.



Essay on The Invisible Man, by H.G. Wells for Coursera Fantasy and Science Fiction. MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS!!!

In his 1897 novel The Invisible Man, H. G. Wells portrayed a tragic anti-hero, a trend which had become popular among romantic writers following in the footsteps of Milton. Well's character Griffin isolated himself from humanity at first because he wanted all the glory of his discoveries. Later, he was driven to isolation by a fear of discovery. Finally, he was driven mad by the effects of his self-imposed isolation.

Wells used two narrative styles for this novel. One style was Griffin's first person narrative. This style not only established Griffin as the protagonist of the story, but it also painted him in a tragic light: he was naked, hungry, and alone; facing the unforeseen difficulties of invisibility. He had striven diligently for success only to have it wrenched away as he recognized his own impotence in isolation. Only upon this dreadful realization did he seek out compatriots. However, he faced rejection not only from the general populace, but also from his chosen companions. Like Satan in Paradise Lost, Griffin had rebelled against the social order, and been mortified by his own failure. Like Satan, he failed to recognize his own fault in his fall, and instead sought revenge.

The other narrative style used in The Invisible Man was that of a semi-omniscient reporter/observer who told the story as seen through the eyes of individual characters. This style was distanced from the motivations of characters, resulting in the farcical effect of watching people rushing after flying objects and thrashing wildly at thin air. This narrative style made Griffin's plight seem pathetically silly. It is reminiscent of the comic debasement of Satan at the end of Paradise Lost. It suggests that Griffin doesn't deserve the tragic grandeur of a real hero--because he's just a sad little man with poor morals and no friends.

> 103

Rachel, I like how you found the links between the narrative style and how that impacts the message. I've never read Milton but seeing these links is a motivator.

I liked The Invisible Man more than The Island of Dr. Moreau. Today I'm tackling the short stories and writing the essay. I'm having a harder time keeping up with the videos, even though Rabkin is brilliant!

*

"The Star" is an apocalyptic short story written by H. G. Wells in 1897. According to Wikipedia, it founded a science fiction sub-genre of post-apocalyptic fiction in which two celestial objects crash into each other. The description of apocalypse-on-Earth was probably rather original for its time--it was vivid and striking. It also had a very powerful message that was told in a rather unique way. I was reminded of a book I read recently, Half of a Yellow Sun, by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie...not in narrative style (not in the slightest!) but in underlying message. (The link above is to the ebook version of "The Star" if you don't want to miss out out my awesome spoiler comments.)

SPOILERS START HERE!!!:
While I was reading "The Star" I was distracted by the detachment of it all. We seemed to be observing it from afar rather than experiencing it through the eyes of tortured souls. At the last sentence, I realized WHY he made the story so detached. He was writing with the detachment of a far-away observer. Of someone who's just reading about the events in a newspaper. We see the murders, the famines, the plagues; but we don't FEEL them. This reminded me of a touching novel about the Biafra / Nigeria civil war: Half of a Yellow Sun, by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie. In this gut-wrenching, but beautiful book Adichie asks the question "were you silent when we died?"

SPOILER-FREE ZONE COMMENCES:
I think it's horrible how we can watch news of horror and tragedy from afar and simply shake our heads and say "that's too bad...." and not worry about it any more. The idea of such uncaring thoughts (literally) brings tears to my eyes. And then the biologist in me rears her ugly head and says: this detachment is necessary for our own individual sanity. We have to, at some level, separate personal tragedy from the tragedy of people who have no impact on ourselves. If we didn't, we would be constantly overwhelmed by emotions that distract us from our own lives and do not provide any personal advantage. I suppose if I were constantly overwhelmed with emotion about distant tragedies, I'd be on the far-opposite end of the autism spectrum. I think we should honestly consider the pain of other people and, if we can, do something about it. But where do we draw the line for emotional involvement? I suppose this is something that each individual must answer for him or herself.

*Picture is from a NASA Google+ post
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/+NASA/albums/5696123366169240577/569678738006...

>104 JDHomrighausen: Thanks Jonathan! I have been spending a lot of time thinking about Paradise Lost lately because I've been preparing to read it. (No, I haven't actually started it THIS time around...I'm still doing background stuff.) But Milton certainly influenced the anti-hero for a few hundreds of years.

I am bailing on the assignments for this course. I have Fibromyalgia, a chronic pain and chronic fatigue disorder, and have been feeling better recently. Better than I have felt in 7 years since I went off on Long Term Disability. Because I was feeling better, I thought I might be able to handle something with deadlines but 6 weeks in, I am falling apart and realize I cannot do it. I love the books and will continue to read and audit the course so I will learn lots still but can do that on my own time.

I will continue to follow you all here on this thread and hope the rest of you will post your essays here for me to read. I do enjoy looking at them.

Cathy

No worries Cathy! You shouldn't push yourself. I'm having trouble keeping up, too, and I don't have your excuse. :)

Actually, I am the opposite of worried. I am relieved. And it was a successful exercise. If I was actually wondering if I could return to work, it is clear to me now, that I am not ready yet. So that information is good to know.

Hi Cathy,

I think if you considered going back to work, because you have been feeling better, and the course workload showed you that you are not. I think that was very "lucky" in a sense.
However, as Hibernator said - even for everyone else it is difficult to keep up.

I think the main issue is - that YOU do what is most comfortable and enjoyable for yourself - and just reading the books, following the discussions in the forum and watching the videos, is in my opinion, excercise enough. *grin*

>110 drachenbraut23:
Thanks
I think that Coursera understated the estimated number of hours per week to do the work. It was all I could do to do the readings, write the essay and mark my peers (which by the way I did enjoy doing) but I have only watched the video lectures for Grimm, Carrol and part of Dracula. I am looking forward to viewing the rest and catching up. I really like Professor Rabkin.

I am planning to take more of these courses but just audit them.

>111 ccookie:

Cathy, you're not the only one. My mom and I both got so frustrated with the stupid peer-grading system and the bizarrely short word limit on the essays that we long stopped doing the assignments. It's enough to keep up with the reading and the videos. Hell, this week I'm bailing on Burroughs; no time.

My mom is auditing Modern/Contemporary Poetry and I'm doing Greek Mythology.

My Wells essay if anyone is curious:

The Invisible Man recapitulates a basic theme found in much of the literature of this course: a man who reaches for greatness via the brilliance of his invention and creation, yet tragically fails to reach it. He then becomes an anti-hero, as his flaws and failings drive him to use his brilliance for monstrous ends. In this case, Griffin's discovery of the ability to become invisible led first to personal terror, then to a decision to begin a Reign of Terror on all humankind. His anger and megalomania lead to his downfall and to his use of this invention to harm others.

What makes Griffin's telling of his own story so striking is that, like Frankenstein's monster, there is a kind of sense behind his words. His actions makes sense within his motives of a big name in science and a lasting contribution to humanity. But this rationality is a twisted one. It is rationality that is calculated to take in every factor but the feelings of other humans. Griffin's personal failings lead to the twisted use of his invention. Over and over again the stories we've read in this class bring up this point. How unfailingly do we trust scientists to use their power for good? What harm can a scientist do? Ironically, we have science fiction critiquing its namesake.

I gave up on Herland today, but read A Princess of Mars.

I wonder if there are so many evils-of-pursuing-science-with-no-conscience novels written during that time because science and religion were going through a divorce...Science used to be studied by religious scholars, but what with Darwinian theory and the Reformation, I think things started to change. Perhaps people feared that science without religion would also have no morals?

> I loved Herland - my favourite of the books so far!! Interesting how tastes differ...

Well, I think my problem is more of a preconceived bias. When I was younger I had to put up with several feminists who were so feminist that they were sexist...and I've found extreme feminism irksome ever since. If only these people knew that their preaching had the opposite effect as that intended! ;) Perhaps I should give Herland a little more time. I liked "The Yellow Wallpaper," after all.

I'm liking Herland because of my lack of knowledge of feminism. As a guy I feel I need to learn about the other perspective.

Rachel, I have been seeing this monomyth too. There seems to be a combined fascination and fear of these new powers sciences gives us mere mortals. It's interesting that a dilemma we think is so modern has been dealt with for two centuries.

If anyone is interested, I have a LT thread up to discuss the Coursera Greek Mythology class:

www.librarything.com/topic/142180

Is anyone else still doing the readings for this class?

I admit it is hard to keep up. I've fallen far behind on the videos and intend to catch up this weekend.

Anyway, I finished The Martian Chronicles, and it is by far my favorite book for this course (with Frankenstein a close second). Bradbury definitely seems to be stretching this genre in terms of diction, range of emotions of characters and readers, and awareness of human foibles. I get the feeling the genre for him is more of an idiom to express the same human issues that "great literature" does.

Anyone else's thoughts?

I enjoyed Martian Chronicles. I thought it was an interesting border between pulp fiction and modern SF. He had a lot of pulpy aspects in there, but it wasn't for the lowest common denominator of readers...it was for people who actually thought about what they read.

If you're interested, here's a blog post made by a girl in the class on The Martian Chronicles. I thought it was very interesting so I'll share it. :)

http://rtpotnf.blogspot.com/2012/09/bradburys-bizarre-love-triangle-ylla.html

I wound up jumping back in because I had an idea for an essay and dashed it off pretty easily.

It makes me laugh too hard to see the comments I received. I thought you all might get a laugh too ... unless you are student number 3

Here is my essay and the comments it generated. It certainly wasn't the best essay in the world and I am happy with a 4/6 but really, student number 3 needs to take a pill!! LOL

~~~~~~~~~~

Reality is the state of things as they actually exist. (Oxford Dictionary) But how do we define what actually is? How do we know that what we know is what we know? Is there some form of universal consciousness? Is there a collective memory? What determines real versus unreal?

Bradbury plays with this concept of reality. In “The Earth Men”, the new arrivals are greeted by “Martians” speaking English and seeming in all ways like Earthmen. Many of the Martians in the asylum claim to be from Earth. How do we or Mr. X determine what is real and what is not? Convinced that the newcomers are merely “hallucinations” of the Captain, Mr. X kills him, and yet, the hallucinations continue. He determines that the hallucinations are also unreal so he shoots them and this unreality persists. Deciding he must also be a victim of the mass hallucinations he kills himself. There is no concept of reality here at all. The Martians themselves are caught up in this conflict of real versus unreal.

In the “Third Expedition” the Americans are exposed to long-lost loved ones. At first, they understand that these family members are not real, but as time goes by, they become less and less sure of this. Martians have used their telepathic abilities to make Earthmen believe the unbelievable. Reality and unreality are blurred. Once men have bought into the collective illusion, the Martians are in a position to destroy them and return to their own reality.

In “Night Meeting”, neither Martian nor American can grasp what is real. Both observe the other to be ethereal, viewing Mars through the ghostly apparition of the other. Neither of them is certain that what they see is what they see.

We know what we know, until confronted with something that does not fit with our definition of reality and we are lost until we find our our reality again.

~~~~~~~~

Students 1, 2 and 4 were positive with several constructive suggestions which were very helpful and then there is student three.

Student one says:

Essay is well written with a flowing style. The arguments are well laid out to support the thesis. The rhetoricalquestions are one too many but I wouldn't hold it against the essay. There are couple of minor grammatical errors like " Mr. X determine.." "...find our our reality..."

The writer has brought out a key theme of the work. Reality is indeed questioned throughout. The arguments are well laid out with multiple references from the work. The essay would have benefited from selected excerpts to support the argument.


Student 2:

Well written. Just one comment - commas and periods should go inside end quotes.

My brain hurts a bit after reading your essay. I too examined the theme of reality in my essay. Bradbury is a master of delving into this theme and looking at it from multiple perspectives. You did a very nice job. Your last sentence is a real mind-bender!

Student 4:

The essay is clearly laid out and well written.

I love this topic! You have illustrated the reality-unreality conflict well. I like how you set up the essay, but I feel like there are too many questions for the scope of the essay. The essay mainly discusses the first question -- "How do we define what actually is?" But there is no discussion of the other questions (collective memory, universal consciousness, etc.). With more words, you could address these issues, but since the essay is so short, it would be improved with a narrower focus. Overall, I think you did a great job, and I would enjoy reading your expanded essay. :-)

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AND THEN WE HAVE STUDENT 3:
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The form of the essay is very incorrect. There are a lot of grammar and spelling mistakes. For instance, you repeat twice "our" in last paragraph or you write with marks words that not need them (Martians, hallucinations). Moreover, you repeat the same structures to express your ideas (what they see is what they see/ We know what we know).

The content of the essay is poor and very pretentious. First and last paragraph doesn't deal about the work. You take adventage of the essay to talk about a theme, but you don't write about the work, much more important than your personal ideas. You have lost the main aim of the course: to enrich readings.

Enjoy my friends!

Wow. Student 3 is a bit pretentious. ;)

Good essay, by the way! :)

Kinda harsh. I'm thinking of Miss Swan from Mad TV: "You need to take a chill pill!"

I actually liked your essay, and think Bradbury is befitting of such philosophical music.

Something to get off my chest -

I am 125 pages into The Left Hand of Darkness and find it tedious, overly descriptive, and impossible to keep track of all the casually introduced and oddly named characters and place names Le Guin throws in. I'm thinking of dropping ship.

Anyone else feel the same?

> 125
I didn't like it at all and kept asking myself - "and THIS won both the Hugo and the Nebula? THIS??" Maybe we are missing something ...?

I'm liking Little Brother even less although I found it on audio and the reader is excellent!

I read Left Hand of Darkness a long time ago. I liked it, but it was a difficult haul for me. I decided not to read it again for this course because I've been swamped with other stuff to do. If you don't like it, drop it. :)

That is so true, Rachel. I'm gonna skip the Doctorow book too. I'm also going to bow out of Greek Mythology. Honestly, it's a little silly to take it since I've got a real live Classical Mythology course at my school, and being a Greek minor I should take it.

I'm definitely feeling the need to focus in-depth in my reading on issues more closely related to the theological and scriptural dialogue I would like to make my life's work. Plus I've been sitting on a potentially publishable article for half a year now. So no more coursera after this one.

:) It's funny that you say that, because I decided yesterday to skip the Doctorow book (I'll get to it eventually, but not now) and drop the mythology class. These classes take more time than the "10 hours" a week, I don't think justice can be done to those texts in 10 weeks time, so I'd end up going through them in more detail later. I want to focus on my study of Paradise Lost, and then I'll move on to those texts. I also have a good background in Greek myth, so it's not a huge loss. But I'll keep an eye out for the course next time it's offered.